Car(s) seized without charges laid???
 

Ok I heard some stuff on the radio briefly today, something along the lines of street racing or something - DO NOT QUOTE me on any of this - Im curious if anyone else heard this, and if so, what was said????

Flipping through stations I heard (Z103.5 maybe) the radio dude saying something like "authorities have the powers to seize a vehicle (might have also said "and crush them") under some *power* they have EVEN IF criminal charges were NOT laid". I have no idea if he also said that this is in relation to street racing or if officers suspect a car to be a street race car [dont ask me what qualifies as such]

I dont street race nor do I track race [I've always mainly been a cruiser - neck snapping acceleration from dead stop rocks and high end top speed doesnt do it for me, my rides have usually been torquey low RPM old heavy iron with some light cars built for rally racing, but mainly Im a cruiser and not a racer], but my concern lies in the fact that having yer ride pulled off the street and seized by authorities without charges of anything laid against you simply cuz they think yer ride might be (one day) involved in a street race/illegal activity worries me. Why? - well because I think that that leaves a huge opportunity for officers to abuse their powers and who's to say what a race car actually is anyways.

So mainly wondering if anyone heard that too (broadcasted Wednesday afternoon on June 20th) and what actually was said. If I heard the radio guy right -was he missinformed?, was he right? etc..???

TheStar.com - News - 'We will crush your car,' Bryant warns racers

Quote:
Likening speed shops that make street racers to illegal drug labs and bomb factories, Attorney General Michael Bryant is warning the cars could be seized before they even hit the roads.

Bryant threw down the gauntlet at street racers today in the wake of Monday’s Highway 400 accident, allegedly caused by racing, in which truck driver David Virgoe was killed.

“Somebody who’s putting together a … car for street racing might as well be putting together an illegal narcotic or putting together an explosive,” the attorney general told reporters.

“What I would say to anybody who is engaging in the illegal act of street racing is, we don’t need to wait until that car hits the road fully loaded,” said Bryant.

The attorney general pointed out that Ottawa and Queen’s Park have worked together to tighten up laws designed to curb street racing.

“We can seize that car if we have information from police and, just on the balance of probabilities, if we can establish that that car is being used for the unlawful purpose of street racing, we will seize it and you will never see it again,” he said.

“We will crush your car. We will crush the parts. You will never see it again.”

While Bryant declined to discuss details of Virgoe’s death or the case of three men charged in connection with it, he noted that Ontario prosecutors are making use of new provisions in the Criminal Code for street-racing offences.

Feel free to send him a note directly...


Ministry of the Attorney General - Let us hear from you

This is nothing terribly new here - Bryant is using scare tactics to appeal to an election audience.

For the record, they cannot destroy your car unless they can convince a judge, based on balance of probabilities, that the vehicle is being used for illegal purposes (street racing in this case). Regardless of the election-style grandstanding of our bone-headed AG, simply customizing a car is NOT grounds for seizure or destruction of the vehicle.

I sent some fan mail...


Thats the most rediculas thing I've ever heard...

They should be targeting the irresponsile kids in the family mini van...

next they will Crush your Hard-on cause women might get raped....:retard:

See this is again a person trying to get noticed and make personal headway for themselves by bashing on street racing. I don't know if any of the vehicles in the latest "alleged" street racing incident were even modified? He jumps on it and starts bashing modified cars and I doubt he's in tune with what the modified car scene is all about. Then he attacks the shops that do mods as if to say grandma's woody wagon can't get up to speeds that kill. I'll give you an example of people who get into these topics without homework..on flow 93.5 this morning they were talking about the AG's comments and they said basically he shouldn't be attacking modded cars cuz it puts enthusiasts in the same category as lunatics...great..then to show lack of knowledge they said, the cars shouldn't have "NOS"..umm..that ahh nitric..ahh..nitro...thingy or other in their car. I agree nitrous isn't necessary for street use but just trying to show that they didn't do they homework cuz they had no idea what "NOS" spells much less how it works. I appreciate their support very much but they needed more homework. Google is our friend.

So what does the AG do when confronted with a discussion about the incident that sparked this latest round of attack...Hmmm...man there's a long road ahead for the modded scene for sure and I see this being dragged though the mud over and over again.

Seriously man don't make those kinds of hurtful statements..lol

smell my fart

:angryfire WTF has this world come to...

There will be many upset car enthusiasts in Ontario. Some modifications not only increase hp and tq but they also can increase fuel efficiency. What modifications will be grounds upon which they deem the car to be taken off the road? What about the cars that already come with 300+ horsepower from the factory? This is an overreaction by the AG and I, like many of you, am really disgusted. Why make all car enthusiasts in Ontario suffer? What happens to a car registered outside of Ontario? Do the same laws apply? Personally, I believe the target should be the street racers themselves not the cars. Make stronger penalties against street racers to discourage them from street racing.

The criminal code provisions Bryant makes reference to here are in keeping with the sentiments of the majority here on this forum - they are intended to punish those who injure or kill innocent people, or put innocent people at risk of the same, while street racing. These provisions make perfect sense, and in no way can they be construed as persecuting anyone in the modded scene.

If you'd like to read the provisions for yourself, have a look at section 249 of the Criminal Code of Canada. <Click Here>

At issue here are the AGs comments which were deliberately targeted to cause the reaction that's the title of this thread.
The AG is doing his level best here to give the impression that police can permanently seize and destroy a car simply because it's been modified - without due process. This is simply not true.

Under the recently amended highway traffic act, police have the power to seize a vehicle for 7 days on only the suspicion of street racing. When this power is invoked, police must clearly outline and document the reason for the suspicion. An order for a seizure outside the initial 7 day period must come from an Ontario Justice in a related proceeding (charges laid).

Permanent seizure and destruction of a vehicle is governed by amendments to the Civil Remedies Act (section 11.2), and is possible only in a very limited set of circumstances. Your vehicle cannot be permanently seized and destroyed under any circumstances without due process.

For detailed source law, have a look at the Safer Roads for a Safer Ontario Act (bill 203) - this act amends both the Ontario Highway Traffic Act, and the Ontario Civil Remedies act. <Click Here>

Any questions, just ask. And I'd add my encouragement to that of others here - please share your thoughts on the AGs comments with his office.

From City Pulse

I HEARD IT AS WELL!!!

I thought I was losing my mind cause I couldn't get anyone else to back it up. I think he possibly meant without a conviction (which within itself is pure idiocy).

Seized and destroyed without conviction? Why not just throw the offender in maximum security without bail.

The province and the city would be surprised to see what extremes the public would go in retaliation if their cars were crushed...nothing to lose at that point.

He implies without charges of any kind - seizing and destroying them "before they hit the road".

I stress once again that Bryant is simply trying to scare people - your car cannot be permanently seized or destroyed without charges.

In fact, if you have a look at the relevant section of the Civil Remedies Act, it is very explicit in describing the circumstances under which the permanent seizure/destruction power can be invoked. One of the conditions states that your "driver’s licence has been suspended under the Highway Traffic Act for vehicular unlawful activity two or more times in the preceding 10 years."

Whats next?? I bet it's charging ppl with sealed liquor/beer in vehicles. Because you "might" drink and drive :retard:

Well if you go by the AG Bryants logic, they will just ban alcohol completely so you wont even have the option.

Im glad that others heard what I thought I heard, pheww, thought I was hearing things, looo

kazanak - I dunno what you do, but thanks for posting intelligent relavent information :smilie_da

Michael Bryant (AG) is in a rather powerfull position and it really sucks that he would blatantly lie to reporters and to the public about seizing cars before they hit the roads, especially since this is his chosen professional feild and should know better (or perhaps the guy is a tool and has'nt a clue about the law, in which case he shouldn't be AG).

This isnt the first time Ive heard about this guy. Architecht friends have bitched about this guy cuz he changed the building codes making things harder on architechts wanting them to pass HIS tests and such, when they have been self regulating to higher standards on their own (they are members of some architech group), so they bunted heads with him. He's apparantly also been involved in trying to cover up info to the public and won an award for "creating a curtain between the public and the courts", he also tried denying info to the public in relation to some colleague of his in cornwall who was molesting children years back (some other prosecutor or such) <-- these are just second heard things from good sources, who knows what other kind of mischief this dudes done.


Maybe someone should do a lil research on him, write a story and submit it to the media, even small media like the NOW magazine (they love that shite) and show the public this guys true colours and show everyone that he LIES. Perhaps just tell NOW mag to investigate this guy and point em in the right direction cuz they have better resources. FUKKEN PROPAGANDA - DISSINFORMATION TO THE PUBLIC - SOCIAL ENGENEERING - I hate this shite, why cant they just tell the truth, oh yea, cuz they're lawyers, lol. <--Ok I know all layers arnt bad and Im sterotyping (I have many family and friends in that feild, hell, I studied law myself for a while - I just coudnt help myself).

how bout an old fashioned Dick Punch Then...he can ban people from making fists....

authorities have the powers to seize a vehicle (might have also said "and crush them") under some *power* they have EVEN IF criminal charges were NOT laid
----------------------------------

yes i also heard that. was surprised myself. i mean can they take any car off the street and destroy it? Its gonna be hard to prove its not modified after its crashed

So.. i didnt wanna read all that bullshit... the basic point is..

if you LOOK like a street racer your guilty and your junk will get seized even if no crime took place???... that dosent sound right...

And since you didn't want to read all the "bullshit" I'll tell you that you're wrong.

The 2 Corvettes were travelling at a high rate of speed on the 400. They were clocked at speeds of 236 km/h. Not sure were it start, but the cars were stopped in the town of Newmarket. Both cars were siezed, drivers arrested and charged. One driver was released on Bail the next day while the other was still waiting bail. The OPP organised crime unit is involved along with York regional police. York has now went to the Attorny general and siezed the cars. The owners personals were cleaned out of the cars and we are instructed that no one is allowed to look or touch the cars without a police presents. One is a 2002 vette adn the other is a 2003 z06 with a 406hp motor in it.

From what I understand, they are not going to crush the cars now, but are going to parade them around to show what happens if you are street racing. These cars do not looked modified at all. Although there is an intercooler in them and one does has a super charger. The one card had reciepts for work totally $15 grand US. ALso, both cars have american plates on them. One from Arizona and the other from P.A.

I will try to keep you all up to date as things progress.

Just an update, found out that an off duty police officer phoned in that these cars were speeding on the 400. No one ever clocked these 2 cars on radar.

Read the thread. :loser:

You guys really dont get it do you,

this law wont be used only for street racing, they can sieze your vehicle if they are suspecting you were and/are going to engage in street racing. Which means that the next time your going to piss off a cop, which i do all the time they can take your car and tell the judge that they suspected you are going to street race.

I dont blame them.
 

I drive a JDM style EK9 with a B16 that I built and installed myself. It looks o.k but the best part is driving it hard whether at meets where its pretty far from local traffic or high speed runs on the 401 at 3 a.m when its practically empty.What really pisses me off is those stupid spontaneous highway chases,by
G1 drivers in their moms Accord passing me using the curb lane at 190kph, when i got my two year old in the back seat. That 's just getting old. I dont mind dying in a high speed crash that was caused by my own actions but I will never forgive myself if my actions results in an innocent person being injured or killed.
If your one of those drivers, POSER.

Think twice.

but i dunt have enuf book learnin...

Typical.
 

See what I mean. 84 Camaro? Tryin to impress daddy by buying the same car he had in highschool. Its cool, ive never seen 84 Camaros do more than 95 anyways. POSER!!

dam pigs!!! get the guns off the streets, get ur priorities straight!!!

No, you don't get it.

I will say it again: Your car CANNOT be permanently seized or destroyed without charges.

Further, for a cop to invoke the administrative 7-day seizure power based on the suspicion of street racing, strong grounds must be present - no matter how much of a dick the cop is, he's not going to risk his career to get back at some random lippy person with a modified car.

they got some fan mail from me cause its true u get the power hungry rookies and there gonna pull wutever they can.... my car isnt at all fast its simply modifed for show state an cruising around with my kids an wife. but that dont mean there gonna look at me as a non-street racer.... anyone with a modifed car will be a target an we all know it and yes its bullshit but unless we fight back theres gonna be nothing we can do.. i truly could care less bout a guys car gettin seized and crushed for street racing thats his/her own stupidity but u all know there gonna target every car out there thats modifed....


just my .02's
Scott

I'm not saying it is legal for them to seize your car. But kazanak, tell that to a cops face after he's pulled you over for absolutely nothing, and watch how fast your car becomes a "street race machine". No one is justifying this seizure sh!t. But for the guys that have been harrassed before, they know...It just adds to the tools that cops can use to shove things in your bum.

Quoting from the press release from the Attorney General:

"The Civil Remedies Act authorizes the Attorney General to ask civil courts to freeze, seize and forfeit the proceeds and instruments of unlawful activity to the Crown. Civil asset forfeiture focuses solely on the connection between property and unlawful activity and is not dependant on any criminal charges or convictions."

Source:

http://www.attorneygeneral.jus.gov.on.ca/english/news/2006/20060615-cria.asp?noimg=1

So, if a cop doesn't like the look of you or your car, poof, you car's gone. No charges, no evidence, no trial, no defence. Welcome to Michael Bryant's Ontario.

I will say it again: Your car CANNOT be permanently seized or destroyed without charges.

Quoting nonsense from the AGO's office does not change the facts of the law. We get enough of this garbage in the media.

First, I would encourage everyone to read the ENTIRE press release that superbird linked to. He is creatively quoting in order to further his point. The press release is over a year old (June 2006), and very clearly indicates that those cars were proven in court to be instruments of unlawful activity. Further, the portion of the press release quoted was written by the AGO's communication department, and is targetted for the same effect as the AG's recent remarks - to exaggerate the power of the AGO's office and to frighten people.

Want something to read? Go right to the source. Read the law that the AGO is so creatively interpreting for dramatic effect. The recent amendments to the Civil Remedies Act are all contained in the Safer Roads for a Safer Ontario Act (bill 203).

Safer Roads for a Safer Ontario Act - Bill 203 <Click Here>

For those of you who want a quick pointer to the relevant section, the following is a direct quote from the law itself:

Forfeiture order
11.2
(1) In a proceeding commenced by the Attorney General, the Superior Court of Justice shall, subject to subsection (4) and except where it would clearly not be in the interests of justice, make an order forfeiting a vehicle to the Crown in right of Ontario if the court finds that the vehicle,

(a) was or is likely to be used to engage in vehicular unlawful activity; and
(b) is owned by or is in the care, control or possession of a person whose driver’s licence has been suspended under the Highway Traffic Act for vehicular unlawful activity two or more times in the preceding 10 years.

you are gay... what i said has NO relation to your previous post... DID i quote you??? NO..

impress my daddy?? who the **** are you joking...you think im some ****ing kid...my daddy was in highschool in 84???... yea OK...
besides...84 camaro was bought from a member here well TSR...years ago..since been sold. whats with the "poser" comment... you use it out of context.. like are you calling people poser that beat the hit out of their moms cars??..they are posers?? what exactly are they trying to be?..

THEN you call me a poser??.. how the hell am i a poser??... you wanna know what i drive? SURE... i have an 83 regal...and a 87 442. hows that being a poser ..cuz i dont drive some import peice of and brag about some swap i did...like you...

besides... you havent sen a camaro do more than 95??..where the hell have you been.. obviously sitting in a parking lot with your "cool" car friends talking about your torque steer.. while people with real cars.. run them...

i say that the government worry about whats actually important. and thats getting gangs, drugs, weapons of the streets. look at how many shootings there have been this year. they busted jane n finch ok. but that was one small fraction of what is still left out there.
but then i guess ppl who find an empty street at 2am and make a few safe passes are more life threating then the above

Am I the only one that recongnises that the "balance of prbabilities" is from CIVIL LAW!!!! It has nothing to do with criminal law and the charges of street racing under the HTA. Kazanak is totally right, for them to keep your possesions, you have to be charged and then found that the possesion was used for or is evidence in a crime. A ****ing pig can't just look at your car wrong and poof its gone. Most of the that that bryant spouts off goes against the statute of rights and our charter.

You're absolutely right in that much of what the AGO is trying to convince the public of is directly contrary to the charter.

A minor point however - "Street Racing" under the Ontario Highway Traffic Act is not a criminal code offense. This means the burden of proof in such a case is "balance of probabilities".

There are specific street racing-related charges in part VIII of the criminal code of Canada - if you are charged with one of these offenses, by definition, it becomes a criminal matter and the burden of proof becomes "beyond reasonable doubt".

This is a minor, but very important distinction: If you are charged with Street Racing under the Ontario HTA, the crown needs only convince a judge that based on a balance of probabilities, you were street racing - in other words, if the crown can show that you were more likely to have been street racing than not, the judge will convict.