Peel Police - Profiling Honda Drivers .. It is true.
 

Ok, well, I've had my first honda, the prelude for about 1.5 months. It's my daily driver and for the first time in about 17 years i was followed by a Peel regional cop for approximately 15 minutes at 2pm in the afternoon. No lie, every lane change, street change this copper followed me.

At the end of the 15 minutes, he ended up pulling out from behind me and put about 2-3 cars on me, made about 6 improper lane changes at the posted speed limit and blew right through a red light. I ended up catching up to him at South Common mall area where he proceeded to make a few more improper lane changes until we hit a red light side by side (heading west before glen erin). Light turned green and low and behold who ducked behind me a again... Anyhow, nothing came of it other than he seen a lowered honda prelude with a white male driving. :smilie_d0

I really feel bad for the car enthusiasts that modify hondas. In 17 years i was never once followed in my dodge, ever! Coming home from streetsville turned into a follow the leader adventure.

I've always known it was bad, but damn, it sucks when you got someone riding your ass who is in a position of authority, who can make up stuff as he goes just to stick it to you because you drive a certain brand of car :smilie_d0

u just learned something old :confused:

haha...it so true. I just love it when there's a car show and they setup a RIDE type program that just stops honda's and says they have to do an emission test...which is actually a "come over into this parking lot and volunteer for a ticket" Well..actually that's the York Regional Police.

Enlighten us - exactly what "stuff" did this cop "make up" when he came across you in your "certain brand of car"?

Oh wait - he didn't actually pull you over, which means that he didn't "make stuff up" even though he saw you in your "certain brand of car", which means that your paranoia is making stuff up instead.

You might want to be thankfull for it. IF they run your plates and everything is fine, cool.

Is someone steals your and drives it home and they run the plates, you'll be thankful for the police profiling Honda :smilie_da

KW police do the same thing, even to VW's. I got pulled over into an MTO inspection last summer, with my son in the car. Doing 40km/h on a side street on my way to a park. WTF. I was told the car fit "the street racing" profile.:loser:

we've all been followed by the cops. ive had it happen to and i drive acavalier. its just their way of scary people in commonly modified cars into driving normally and yes, once they run the plate theyll be sure to pull you over for a random stop if your record isnt tip top. some cops are just complete dicks and dont give a and are only out to harrass people, some actually do their jobs.

of course if it wasnt for the fact the young kids in hopped up economy boxes raced around like idiots none of us would have this problem. oh well, glad its not nearly this bad down here :)

peel region cops are dicks man. I got pulled over on highway 27, by a undercover crown vic cruiser. Officer tells me my exhaust is too loud. He decides to search the car (dont know why I let him do this, but I had nothing to hide). I look and see peel region police stickers in black on the car. so I'm thinking wtf... is he even allowed to pull me over in Toronto??

I never asked, and after his search he let me go with no tickets.

Does anyone know if this guy was even allowed to pull me over?? I was coming from Highway 27 and Carrier dr. (which isnt even close to mississauga/brampton). When he saw me, he came behind me slowly and pulled me over (normal fashion).

If you were pulled over by a peel cop in Toronto, he was probably part of the street racing task force.
Ya he can pull you over.
Back in the early 90s we were being pulled over by metro cops in Brampton.

i've been unlawfully detained (arrested) by police plenty of times, i believe you read the other thread. In this instance he didnt arrest/detain me, but as i said, "it sucks when you got someone riding your ass who is in a position of authority, who can make up stuff as he goes just to stick it to you because you drive a certain brand of car".
I didn't say he pulled me over, but don't think the possibility of him sticking it to me isn't there. We all know how dirty cops can be, we've seen it in the paper numerous times.

I speak from personal experience, and now have seen first hand what the police (this officer) will do when you drive a honda. Being followed for 15 minutes en route to a destination is so weak.

Whats your feeling on his improper lane changes and blowing through a red light with no emerg. lights or signals on ? Funny how you didn't comment on that.

LOL

i htink the best thing to do in a situation like that is to pull into someones driveway or parking lot and just walk away from your car. atleast that way itll piss them off and they wont be following you anymore

Well, if you weren't driving a type of car that is still among one of the most likely to be stolen in the GTA, or likely to be used in street racing which just a few days ago day claimed yet another in Mississauga, you might get less attention from the cops.

As for the cop's driving, I wasn't there, so the only indication there is of anything untoward is your own description, and you carry an obvious bias that tends to colour your perception of what cops do.

However, I'm sure you had plenty of opportunity to get a license or fleet number off the car. If you really think there is an issue, why don't you just lay a complaint?

Peel Regional Police
7750 Hurontario Street, Brampton, ON, L6V 3W6 (905) 453-3311

11 Division
3030 Erin Mills Pkwy.,
Mississauga, ON, L5L 1A1 (905) 453-3311 ext. 1100

Community Police Stations
Clarkson (905) 456-5820
Erin Mills (905) 456-5818
Meadowvale (905) 858-5970
Streetsville (905) 456-5815

Point is, despite your innuendo, you did not get pulled over and you did not get rousted with charges that some cop "just made up".

Cops in Ontario have the power to pull you over anywhere at all in Ontario, whether inside or outside their force's normal "home" patrol area.

1) show me statistics that honda preludes are among the top stolen 'vehicles' in ontario, let alone peel.
You're assuming that they're the "most likely" stolen.
Please post a link or some government or provincial backed statistics that 1999 honda preludes are amongst the top stolen vehicles.
Please disclose your source so everyone can take a look, i truly would like to know myself.

2) "Most likely" to be used in street racing ? Again, show me where people are racing 200HP, 3000 lbs honda preludes.
Pure speculation, no stats to back it, means nothing to me and or anyone on this forum.

3) A bias, i suppose i have one. Ive never been charged and convicted of any crimes, i have a clean driving record so i like to think that i have a clear mind on why i and citizens cant trust the police is some instances.

As for your information in regards to who to contact, you're absolutely right. I should have filed a formal complaint but I'm not sure I'm prepared to give my name and information.
I really don't want to end up behind Hershey Center getting taught some old school copper lessons. :smokin:
That being said, knowing that peel police can assault and beat people only to get away with a suspension leads me to believe they aren't going to care about some PC's improper lane changes.
Again, i render my oppinion from experience and what i see happening in the community.

And finally. You provide no credentials, you're biased and work in favor of the police on the forum. Though much of what you say seems accurate, it stems to always lean in favor of the law. The people that enforce that law are not always in the right as we have seen MANY times before.
I am all for enforcement of the law, but it is a two way street. Police should have some one governing them, they are NOT above the law even though in some instances it would seem that way.

Besides, you're from guelph, have you ever ventured out to peel region :smile:

So again, i cant believe that owning a Honda and being 30+ years old still gets me profiled by a police officer who breaks the law willingly himself. tsk tsk.

In peel, they would likely stop, arrest you (detain, same thing), have 15 other cruisers show up, search your vehicle, leave it in disarray, give you a speech about why you shouldn't be doing whatever it is you're doing (in their eyes, evading now) and send you on your way... but only to let you leave first so they can follow you some more. LOL.. classic.

"hi, you're not under arrest but no you cant leave"

Honda and Acura together own 6 of the top 8 most often stolen vehicles in Canada according to Insurance Bureau of Canada stats. The average theft frequency index for all cars is 100, and individual vehicles are rated relative to this average. The MOST frequently stolen vehicle is the 2000 Civic SiR has relative claim index for theft of 1073. Second place goes to the 1999 Civic SiR with a relative claim index for theft of 1026. Fourth place, 1999 Integra at 719. The stats are in a brochure published by the Insurance Bureau of Canada called "How Cars Measure Up".

When a cop sees a Honda running around, one of the first things that will come to mind, is it yet another stolen one? Last year and the year before, several GTA police forces, Peel included, told the media they would be doing more random stops on Hondas because of the significantly higher theft rate that older Hondas (and Acuras) were experiencing in the GTA.

Modded compact and subcompact imports are over-represented in collisions suspected of involving street racing. You can get that from scanning police reports on casualty-producing crashes. Street racing crashes in Mississauga in the last few years have, with rare exception, involved primarily small imports, and Hondas are way out in front. The Prelude may not be the first choice, but to a cop looking at a car trundling down the street, there's not much difference between a modded or lowered Civic and a modded or lowered Prelude. They both fit the "profile".

You see only what you want to see. Everybody loves to jabber on about the train wreck when it happens, but few will even notice the thousands of trains that go by without wrecking as a matter of normal course.

The cops involved in that actually fall into two categories. There was two who actually went off and chased the kids doing the taping, but the rest did not do so. Those who "got off" with suspensions were not involved with chasing the two kids, but they still "only" lost between $2,000 and $3,000 in pay, which is pretty hefty for drinking out of residence. The ones who did more are facing much more serious charges under the Police Act that could cost them much much more than that.

Peel Police cannot assault and beat people with impunity, and a few individuals are going to have that reinforced in them quite heavily.

I suppose you would rather I lean heavily in favour of criminals? Some of those cops who enforce the law may err from time to time, but most do their job diligently and without malice. It gets back to the train wreck thing - everyone notices the train wreck when it happens, but otherwise, trains are invisible even though they're constantly going by us.

I lived in the heart of Mississauga for several years until buying a house in the country a couple of years ago. I only just sold my house in Mississauga a few months ago. My ip may route through Bell's Guelph servers, but I'm closer to Mississauga than I am to Guelph, and can get from my door to downtown Streetsville in under 15 minutes without speeding. I do so just about every day, so I'm well aware, and far more aware that you might realize, how Peel Police operates.

The comments you make here do not seem to be shared by the community as a whole. From the 2005 anonymous Residential and Business Survey comes this finding:
That's the more typical public opinion of policing in Peel.

Ok, so we're now generalizing a manufacture. So its not about my Prelude, its about Honda. Its kinda like Jamaicans = Black. I get it, sorry, its hard to understand profiling when you're not a custom to be the profiler.

I too could have googled that response, and i did :) I wanted to see where my prelude stood in the one of the most stolen cars categories, but my car doesnt come up, as i had suspected.

As we've already stated and you pointed out, i wasn't stopped. Had i been stopped in the first 2 minutes i still would have claimed profiling, but at the same time, i do understand random stops. Not saying i approve, but following people around for 15 minutes is not right, especially when the officer himself is breaking the law.
Using the term "running around" again definitely leads people to think i was doing something other than abiding the law and driving home. To be clear, i wasn't running around.

Im not privy to this paperwork or have the means necessarily to pull the information, im not about to take time off work to refute a forum claim. But, you seem to have it before you since you can make such statements, scan it, post it, link it. What is you do again, oh thats right, this is part of your "mystery appeal". lol
I am reaching here, but im guessing you have nothing at all before you. Again, you haven't listed your credentials, you could be an articling student for all we know or work for intelligaurd, spewing of facts with NO referencing to where this information came from again means nothing to anyone in the real world.
Im not disputing i was profiled, i was and i am glad you acknowledge this is what happened.... You're bang on, and im saying it is wrong.
People who drive hondas should not all be swept up in the same category as people who have been in MVAs with hondas. Again, street racing is a term used loosely by the media and politcal faces from the Police Departments.

I'm not sure the term trundling best described what i was doing. I think "minding my own business driving home" much better suites it. Besides, there were other vehicles around, i just happened to be the one profiled.

I only posted what affected me today which i thought was funny. 17 years driving my dodge, never once profiled. Get into a old 99 honda and boom, hate from the police.

The MTOs bust of 8million dollars worth of cocaine is great news for the community. :thumbsup: Good work MTO and Halton

No, i don't expect you to favor a criminal, i don't. If you do wrong, you pay the piper. Thats how life works and theres a reason laws exist. As a civilian, when you're profiled its crappy. A person in power makes you feel as if you've done wrong and in some cases can make your life miserable when you're innocent.
Thank heavens i'm a white male driving a prelude, otherwise i might be writing this from jail.

2001, 180 down trafalgar, halton officer yanks a mustang. officer in the stang flashes the tin. No charges laid.

Had that been anyone else other than a cop.. well, we already know.

I agree with the survey overall. Police do more good than harm, thats why they get to impede on our rights, they have the protection to do so. Ie: Ride Programs, clearly violates our rights but because a ride program does more good than harm, its ok. You know this already though.
I too think that peel does a decent job in doing whatever it is they do, however, i cant agree with the profiling. Its wrong and i am glad as time passes its coming more to light than before.
It wasn't a big deal, i wasn't yanked over and or charged or even spoken too. I just thought it was funny how a peel regional police officer can see a honda and instantly assume/profile me... again, i often wonder what it would be like to grow up being racially profiled by the cops.

I'm just lucky i didn't suffer an old school police justice :la:

For what it's worth, here is another set theft frequency stats narrowed down to include only 1999 - 2000 models. The Prelude is specifically listed as number 6 on that list. The article is a few years old now, but cars that make the list tend to be there because of the ease with which they can be stolen, and that ease doesn't get any harder as the car gets older.

If you guys think thats bad....i get cops following me while im walking on foot, and i get accused of i didn't even do. cops ( 31 Division to be exact) wanna profile everyone these days....if they see 10 mans and they don't know anyone in that group they will profile you....i have been searched, detained, kicked out of places, banned ...and all types of ****ery for nothing, just pure bull .

Had i posted some police brutality link from 1985 you would have laughed, instead Police Assault Women at.... is a bit more upto date, again, were talking about profiling...

For what its worth, that stat you posted is from 7 years ago gldwngr, you're reaching.

If the police base their profiling on statistics from 7 years ago, that raises some serious concern!!!!!!!!!!!!!

1point of reference

Top most stolen in 2005

2 point of reg here

2004 top 10 most stolen cars

3rd point of reference

Your argument is correct, vehicles don't get harder to steal as the years go on, but the demand lessons as clearly indicated by the statistics above.

Again, profiling is wrong and as far as i'm concerned a crime. Black or white, or m3 vs honda prelude, shotty police work!

PS. big three make up what, aprox 51% of the vehicles on the road at this moment???

Because you're not white. :smilie_d0

But i'm sure gldwngr would say profiling in this instance is ok since all black people are bad! :retard:

The first set of stats I noted showing Honda/Acura holding the top 6 of 8 most often stolen vehicles is recent stats, only two years old. Like I said, it comes from the Insurance Bureau of Canada.

Look to the last page http://www.ibc.ca/en/Car_Insurance/documents/brochure/CW%201993-2005%20Model%20Years%20Worst%20and%20Best-E.pdf for theft frequency. Keep in mind that these are not raw sum total numbers - these are probability indexes.

Profiling based on stats is a perfectly acceptable practice. If a Honda and a Saab are going down the road at the same time, the cop behind them is perfectly justified in taking a harder look at the Honda simply because of the relative differences in theft stats.

Nope.

Sorry, i still don't see my Honda prelude :dunno: . :dunno:
I know you cant speak for every officer. And i can say for certain that the pdf you supplied doesn't say a thing about preludes being stolen and in your own words speak of probabilities...
so again, if civics are the most stolen vehicle, and i drove a civic, maybe i could understand being followed for 15 minutes.

If i drove a ridgline would they also follow me for 15 minutes ? I know you cannot answer that, but the likely hood is no.
I notice the Dodge Shadow made the list. My dodge was built off the same production line, in 17 years i was NEVER followed, ever! Ive lived here for over 22 years.

CPIC - federal db for everyone currently charged or has a record and the local occurance db, + ministry details doesn't take long to work through..... maybe it took him 15 minutes ? For his safety, he should focus more on his lane changes before he kills someone.

Anyhow, profiling is still wrong. Police Officers breaking the law is even worse.
You can pipe up for crooked police all you want, maybe that is your job, but i will always call it as i see it.

Nothing you can tell me will make me understand why i can leave a parking lot with my 600 HP car while my buddy in a civic gets worked (or neon srt4, or nissan 240 etc etc)

But isn't the same principle ? I mean, its no secret that police have been known to profile back males. "driving-while-black" . . .

again, party cops.. 10 Peel officers docked pay after drinking party

What would have happened if the kids assaulted the cops, 10 day school suspension ?


Defend the police all you like, there are some decent pc's out there, however, there are a ton who do things the wrong way. Police are held to a higher standard than a civilian.

That's because they all know you personally by now. :smokin:

[QUOTE=2TONE_93GT]If i drove a ridgline would they also follow me for 15 minutes ? I know you cannot answer that, but the likely hood is no.
I notice the Dodge Shadow made the list. My dodge was built off the same production line, in 17 years i was NEVER followed, ever! Ive lived here for over 22 years.[/URL]

You've been followed now how many times in your Honda? Wait, this was your first time. Gee, it must be a trend. :retard:

In any case, a Ridgeline is highly identifiable even to a non-car-enthusiast, and it certainly won't be mistaken for a Civic or other import subcompact.


MDTs in cruisers does not always equate to instant license checks. Network congestion, poor radio reception or even transmission dead spots, what info is requested etc can all work to add delay to information retrieval. If he was looking up your insurance status, that information is not on MTO or CPIC databases, at least not yet, and would require separate handling and a separate call to an insurance company hotline. A full check on a car and its registered owner can take more time than you would think, even in this age of computers.


Honda cars are the most often stolen, and you drive a Honda. Insurance companies break down the stats by model specifics, but a cop on patrol would simpy have the words "Honda", "compact",and "frequently stolen" in mind.


Where have I done that? What "crooked" cops have I piped up for?


Again, there is nothing illegal or improper about profiling so long as you don't violate Charter Rights in doing so. Last I heard, vehicle choice is not a Charter protection.

There's not a big problem with 600hp cars running amok on the streets. There is definately an issue with a highly visible segment of modded subcompacts doing so. Others in this thread have also noted the same.


I guess you didn't read this the first time.

The cops who took the 10-day suspension did not participate in any chase of the kids. Their sole indiscretion was to gather after hours at alocation where people were drinking out of residence. For that infraction, which would cost you and I around $130 for a minor LLA provincial offences infraction, they are out of pocket between $2,000 and $3,000 depending on their pay grade, plus letter of reprimand in their jackets which will affect their chances of future promotions and pay increases for some time to come.

That's a stiff hit for a simple liquor out of residence infraction, and can hardly be considered a trivial punishment.

The couple of cops who actually did do bad and were involved in the chase are among the other 14 who are still facing full discipliany hearings. Those cops won't be getting anything as lenient as a mere 10 days and $2,000 to $3,000 fine for what they did. Based on punishments meted out to others before them for similar stupidity, and even if they are so lucky as to keep their jobs, they will be out several thousands of dollars and their future career prospects will probably be completely dead-ended.


You have it backwards - there are a ton of decent cops out there, however, there are some who do things the wrong way. The bad do get weeded out, and they're normally exposed out by the good cops who don't take kindly to the bad cops reflecting bad on them.

ive owned my Honda for aprox 60 days. Been followed once.
i owned my dodge 17 years, followed zero times

So yes, there has definitely been a change, i guess its something i have to live with, or sell the car. I am now guilty before innocent :smilie_d0

Ok, so its not about Hondas, its about Sport Compact Hondas. You were generalizing in the first few posts. #14

So, if i buy a nissan 240 i should be ok ? or an srt-4 ?

Forsure, theres a ton of things that can happen. Maybe the stars weren't aligned with the moon as well.

Would the lack of functioning equipment result in his signal indicator not working, or blowing through a red light? I am sure you have an answer, or maybe you can avoid it again ?

You are willing to take my accounts of the instance to use against me, however, my account of the officer has ultimately gone unnoticed. Its ok, it ads to your mystery appeal, isn't that what you want.. LOL

I suppose. I can only say that if the police department has malfunctioning equipment which impedes their ability to have care and control of a vehicle and abide by traffic laws that ALL citizens have to abide by, they should be parked. They're a liability to civilians and themselves on the streets of Peel.

If the agency that protects us has a dead spot for the duration of a 15 minute commute, there is more concerns.

I guess this goes back to the race argument.... Africa, Jamaica, Guiana, Trinidad, i mean, really, whats the difference right, all black ??

I mean, the police don't drive around thinking "hey, them Africans cause a ton of trouble"... lol They just profile people as black or white, so weak. :nono:

Again, i know what you're saying, and i get it, but its not right to profile people.

This debate is testament to you ignoring certain facts and piping up for a cop who committed a crime.

So, a single 600 hp domestic is ok, but a couple modified subcompacts are not ?
And what is running amok and who's doing it? How many times have i seen Peel Regional threaten to charge people at tim hortons for being parked up, is being parked considered running amok now, is running amok a police term ?

Does the police abuse of powers that took place at Tim Hortons ring a bell at 403 and Dundas ? Do you yourself remember the notice by management who they themselves were filing a civil case against the officers who caused trouble.

Because you have a badge doesn't make you ABOVE the law. Having a honda doesn't make you a crook or thief either. Being black doesnt make you a crook and being a cop doesn't make you a pig, but if we profile, then i guess if the shoe fits....

Police are held to a higher standard. They also stood by well fellow off duty police officers who are sworn to protect and serve abused their status.
They were accessories to a crime, they should have been charged as such and terminated.

They all did bad, drinking in public is against the law and results in fines. Its against the law, you consider it ok to get drunk in public while a police officer and beating up some children bad ? They're both bad and to say otherwise is ludacris.
They're both illegal, one more sever than the other, but again, this is OUR police we're talking about.

Well, no, not backwards. I am acknowledging that there are good police out there. Latter part of your statement, i also agree because i myself couldn't stand for racial profiling or any profiling.

My final note to this discussion. Basing your judgment as a police officer solely on manufacture type of a vehicle, or generalizing based off a race is a sure way to complicate things, and i would argue it allows other "vehicle makes" and "races" to partake in crimes and go unnoticed.

The officer i'm talking about discriminated against me and was acting with prejudice and that is unfair to myself and to others who may have encountered this type of behavior.

I'm locking the thread, because i can. That is the only power i have in my small world. I think nothing less of you even if you work for intelligaurd or get paid to article, its ok. Debating is great, kinda like profiling for some bad cops.