1987 Manual Transmission Accord DX - Testing Transmission/Gears??
 

I have a 1987 Manual Transmission Accord DX with 220,000 miles on the
original clutch (bought the car new). Although the book value of the car's
not too much, I'm trying to see if it's reasonable to put a clutch in and
have it last about another 3 years, until I can afford to replace the car.
The engine's fine, and has started for me almost without fail over the last
17 years - a *very* reliable car.

So, is there a easy, reliable way to test the transmission/gears to see if
replacing the clutch would be a waste due to a so-to-be-failing
transmission/gears?

Sometimes it's hard to shift, but I've noticed that *sometimes* if I pump
the clutch, it will go into gear (if it's one of those times it's being
stubborn about not wanting to go into gear). Sometimes it will partially go
into gear and then if I keep the pressure on the stick shift, it will slide
in the rest of the way. I don't mind spending about $1000 on the car if I'll
give me another 3 years or so of reliable operation. $333/year isn't much
over a 3 year period - and sure beats a new car payment at this point in my
life. Other than the clutch, the front suspension could also stand some work
(ride's a little 'bouncy' - replace *original* front struts?).
Thanks for you hints and tips!
Ken

Re: 1987 Manual Transmission Accord DX - Testing Transmission/Gears??
 

Ken Abrahamsen wrote:

> I have a 1987 Manual Transmission Accord DX with 220,000 miles on the
> original clutch (bought the car new). Although the book value of the car's
> not too much, I'm trying to see if it's reasonable to put a clutch in and
> have it last about another 3 years, until I can afford to replace the car.
> The engine's fine, and has started for me almost without fail over the last
> 17 years - a *very* reliable car.
>
> So, is there a easy, reliable way to test the transmission/gears to see if
> replacing the clutch would be a waste due to a so-to-be-failing
> transmission/gears?
>
> Sometimes it's hard to shift, but I've noticed that *sometimes* if I pump
> the clutch, it will go into gear (if it's one of those times it's being
> stubborn about not wanting to go into gear). Sometimes it will partially go
> into gear and then if I keep the pressure on the stick shift, it will slide
> in the rest of the way. I don't mind spending about $1000 on the car if I'll
> give me another 3 years or so of reliable operation. $333/year isn't much
> over a 3 year period - and sure beats a new car payment at this point in my
> life. Other than the clutch, the front suspension could also stand some work
> (ride's a little 'bouncy' - replace *original* front struts?).
> Thanks for you hints and tips!
> Ken

I'm really new to manual transmissions, so I can only give you an
opinion. Before changing the clutch, try changing the transmission fluid
with Honda MTF. Avoid regular 10w30 oil, (I can use it in my 01 Prelude
but it's not recommended) or other fluids that cheap shops use. If there
is anything wrong with the transmission, you'll know it for sure if it
still has problems with fresh fluid. If it does, it may be the shift
fork, but at this point I'm guessing... But it's not the parts that are
very expensive when repairing a transmission, it's the labour. If you
decide to replace the clutch it shouldn't be much more expensive to
repair the gear box at the same time.

And the front struts may well need replacing, since they are 17 years
old the seals are probably pretty worn and leaking. But if they lasted
this long and you can live with the bouncier suspension, they probably
do not need replacing right away.

Cosmin

Re: 1987 Manual Transmission Accord DX - Testing Transmission/Gears??
 

Ken Abrahamsen wrote:

> I have a 1987 Manual Transmission Accord DX with 220,000 miles on the
> original clutch (bought the car new). Although the book value of the car's
> not too much, I'm trying to see if it's reasonable to put a clutch in and
> have it last about another 3 years, until I can afford to replace the car.
> The engine's fine, and has started for me almost without fail over the last
> 17 years - a *very* reliable car.
>
> So, is there a easy, reliable way to test the transmission/gears to see if
> replacing the clutch would be a waste due to a so-to-be-failing
> transmission/gears?
>
> Sometimes it's hard to shift, but I've noticed that *sometimes* if I pump
> the clutch, it will go into gear (if it's one of those times it's being
> stubborn about not wanting to go into gear). Sometimes it will partially go
> into gear and then if I keep the pressure on the stick shift, it will slide
> in the rest of the way. I don't mind spending about $1000 on the car if I'll
> give me another 3 years or so of reliable operation. $333/year isn't much
> over a 3 year period - and sure beats a new car payment at this point in my
> life. Other than the clutch, the front suspension could also stand some work
> (ride's a little 'bouncy' - replace *original* front struts?).
> Thanks for you hints and tips!
> Ken

I'm really new to manual transmissions, so I can only give you an
opinion. Before changing the clutch, try changing the transmission fluid
with Honda MTF. Avoid regular 10w30 oil, (I can use it in my 01 Prelude
but it's not recommended) or other fluids that cheap shops use. If there
is anything wrong with the transmission, you'll know it for sure if it
still has problems with fresh fluid. If it does, it may be the shift
fork, but at this point I'm guessing... But it's not the parts that are
very expensive when repairing a transmission, it's the labour. If you
decide to replace the clutch it shouldn't be much more expensive to
repair the gear box at the same time.

And the front struts may well need replacing, since they are 17 years
old the seals are probably pretty worn and leaking. But if they lasted
this long and you can live with the bouncier suspension, they probably
do not need replacing right away.

Cosmin

Re: 1987 Manual Transmission Accord DX - Testing Transmission/Gears??
 

Ken Abrahamsen wrote:
>
> I have a 1987 Manual Transmission Accord DX with 220,000 miles on the
> original clutch (bought the car new). Although the book value of the car's
> not too much, I'm trying to see if it's reasonable to put a clutch in and
> have it last about another 3 years, until I can afford to replace the car.
> The engine's fine, and has started for me almost without fail over the
> last 17 years - a *very* reliable car.
>
> So, is there a easy, reliable way to test the transmission/gears to see if
> replacing the clutch would be a waste due to a so-to-be-failing
> transmission/gears?
>
> Sometimes it's hard to shift, but I've noticed that *sometimes* if I pump
> the clutch, it will go into gear (if it's one of those times it's being
> stubborn about not wanting to go into gear). Sometimes it will partially
> go into gear and then if I keep the pressure on the stick shift, it will
> slide in the rest of the way. I don't mind spending about $1000 on the
> car if I'll give me another 3 years or so of reliable operation.
> $333/year isn't much over a 3 year period - and sure beats a new car
> payment at this point in my life. Other than the clutch, the front
> suspension could also stand some work (ride's a little 'bouncy' - replace
> *original* front struts?).
> Thanks for you hints and tips!
> Ken

The symptom you've described, hard shifting into gear, can be caused by a
worn clutch and does not necessarily indicate a problem with the
transmission.

One way to evaluate the transmission is to depress and release the clutch
pedal with the engine running and the transmission in neutral. If you hear
any change in the sound coming from the engine compartment, then it could be
associated with the transmission. For example, if a noise goes away when
you depress the clutch pedal, then the transmission might have noisy
bearings. Or if a noise becomes audible when the clutch pedal is depressed,
then it might be the clutch release bearing (something which is replaced
with the clutch so it's not a big deal).

Other problems that can occur are with the clutch release cable. Sometimes
the wire cable saws through the metal housing at the transmission end. This
can cause the cable to hang up and might prevent the clutch from fully
engaging thereby accelerating wear on the clutch. Another problem, which is
more common on Civics, is that sometimes the spot welds in the pedal cluster
come apart. This allows the pedal cluster to flex which then doesn't allow
the clutch to be fully disengaged while shifting.

Also make sure that the clutch is adjusted correctly. There should be about
3-5 mm of free play at the end of the clutch release arm. If there isn't,
then you'll need to back of the adjusting knob on the cable a little bit.
However, too much freeplay can cause the transmission to be hard to get into
gear especially with a worn clutch.

Lastly, manual transmission fluid should be replaced about every 30K mi. If
you change the oil, be sure to check it's condition. Make sure that you
don't see any sparkling metal flakes in it which would indicate failing
internal components.

Eric

Re: 1987 Manual Transmission Accord DX - Testing Transmission/Gears??
 

Ken Abrahamsen wrote:
>
> I have a 1987 Manual Transmission Accord DX with 220,000 miles on the
> original clutch (bought the car new). Although the book value of the car's
> not too much, I'm trying to see if it's reasonable to put a clutch in and
> have it last about another 3 years, until I can afford to replace the car.
> The engine's fine, and has started for me almost without fail over the
> last 17 years - a *very* reliable car.
>
> So, is there a easy, reliable way to test the transmission/gears to see if
> replacing the clutch would be a waste due to a so-to-be-failing
> transmission/gears?
>
> Sometimes it's hard to shift, but I've noticed that *sometimes* if I pump
> the clutch, it will go into gear (if it's one of those times it's being
> stubborn about not wanting to go into gear). Sometimes it will partially
> go into gear and then if I keep the pressure on the stick shift, it will
> slide in the rest of the way. I don't mind spending about $1000 on the
> car if I'll give me another 3 years or so of reliable operation.
> $333/year isn't much over a 3 year period - and sure beats a new car
> payment at this point in my life. Other than the clutch, the front
> suspension could also stand some work (ride's a little 'bouncy' - replace
> *original* front struts?).
> Thanks for you hints and tips!
> Ken

The symptom you've described, hard shifting into gear, can be caused by a
worn clutch and does not necessarily indicate a problem with the
transmission.

One way to evaluate the transmission is to depress and release the clutch
pedal with the engine running and the transmission in neutral. If you hear
any change in the sound coming from the engine compartment, then it could be
associated with the transmission. For example, if a noise goes away when
you depress the clutch pedal, then the transmission might have noisy
bearings. Or if a noise becomes audible when the clutch pedal is depressed,
then it might be the clutch release bearing (something which is replaced
with the clutch so it's not a big deal).

Other problems that can occur are with the clutch release cable. Sometimes
the wire cable saws through the metal housing at the transmission end. This
can cause the cable to hang up and might prevent the clutch from fully
engaging thereby accelerating wear on the clutch. Another problem, which is
more common on Civics, is that sometimes the spot welds in the pedal cluster
come apart. This allows the pedal cluster to flex which then doesn't allow
the clutch to be fully disengaged while shifting.

Also make sure that the clutch is adjusted correctly. There should be about
3-5 mm of free play at the end of the clutch release arm. If there isn't,
then you'll need to back of the adjusting knob on the cable a little bit.
However, too much freeplay can cause the transmission to be hard to get into
gear especially with a worn clutch.

Lastly, manual transmission fluid should be replaced about every 30K mi. If
you change the oil, be sure to check it's condition. Make sure that you
don't see any sparkling metal flakes in it which would indicate failing
internal components.

Eric

Re: 1987 Manual Transmission Accord DX - Testing Transmission/Gears??
 

The stubborn "going in to gear" is probably a clutch problem which should go
away when replaced. If you hear no whining from the transmission when
driving, if it doesn't pop out of gear while driving and you get no grinding
when changing gears your transmission is likely still in decent shape. Do
use the Honda Manual Transmission fluid, it will extend the life of your
synchronizers in your trans.
If it were mine I'd replace the clutch.
"$333/year isn't much" How does $27.75 per month sound? Still better than a
new car payment. Good luck!
Howard
"Ken Abrahamsen" <kabrahamsen@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:_E_ed.418856$mD.274472@attbi_s02...
> I have a 1987 Manual Transmission Accord DX with 220,000 miles on the
> original clutch (bought the car new). Although the book value of the car's
> not too much, I'm trying to see if it's reasonable to put a clutch in and
> have it last about another 3 years, until I can afford to replace the car.
> The engine's fine, and has started for me almost without fail over the
last
> 17 years - a *very* reliable car.
>
> So, is there a easy, reliable way to test the transmission/gears to see if
> replacing the clutch would be a waste due to a so-to-be-failing
> transmission/gears?
>
> Sometimes it's hard to shift, but I've noticed that *sometimes* if I pump
> the clutch, it will go into gear (if it's one of those times it's being
> stubborn about not wanting to go into gear). Sometimes it will partially
go
> into gear and then if I keep the pressure on the stick shift, it will
slide
> in the rest of the way. I don't mind spending about $1000 on the car if
I'll
> give me another 3 years or so of reliable operation. c- and sure beats a
new car payment at this point in my
> life. Other than the clutch, the front suspension could also stand some
work
> (ride's a little 'bouncy' - replace *original* front struts?).
> Thanks for you hints and tips!
> Ken
>
>

Re: 1987 Manual Transmission Accord DX - Testing Transmission/Gears??
 

The stubborn "going in to gear" is probably a clutch problem which should go
away when replaced. If you hear no whining from the transmission when
driving, if it doesn't pop out of gear while driving and you get no grinding
when changing gears your transmission is likely still in decent shape. Do
use the Honda Manual Transmission fluid, it will extend the life of your
synchronizers in your trans.
If it were mine I'd replace the clutch.
"$333/year isn't much" How does $27.75 per month sound? Still better than a
new car payment. Good luck!
Howard
"Ken Abrahamsen" <kabrahamsen@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:_E_ed.418856$mD.274472@attbi_s02...
> I have a 1987 Manual Transmission Accord DX with 220,000 miles on the
> original clutch (bought the car new). Although the book value of the car's
> not too much, I'm trying to see if it's reasonable to put a clutch in and
> have it last about another 3 years, until I can afford to replace the car.
> The engine's fine, and has started for me almost without fail over the
last
> 17 years - a *very* reliable car.
>
> So, is there a easy, reliable way to test the transmission/gears to see if
> replacing the clutch would be a waste due to a so-to-be-failing
> transmission/gears?
>
> Sometimes it's hard to shift, but I've noticed that *sometimes* if I pump
> the clutch, it will go into gear (if it's one of those times it's being
> stubborn about not wanting to go into gear). Sometimes it will partially
go
> into gear and then if I keep the pressure on the stick shift, it will
slide
> in the rest of the way. I don't mind spending about $1000 on the car if
I'll
> give me another 3 years or so of reliable operation. c- and sure beats a
new car payment at this point in my
> life. Other than the clutch, the front suspension could also stand some
work
> (ride's a little 'bouncy' - replace *original* front struts?).
> Thanks for you hints and tips!
> Ken
>
>

Re: 1987 Manual Transmission Accord DX - Testing Transmission/Gears??
 

Just a quick "Thanks" to everyone who's replied!
Ken
"Ken Abrahamsen" <kabrahamsen@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:_E_ed.418856$mD.274472@attbi_s02...
>I have a 1987 Manual Transmission Accord DX with 220,000 miles on the
> original clutch (bought the car new). Although the book value of the car's
> not too much, I'm trying to see if it's reasonable to put a clutch in and
> have it last about another 3 years, until I can afford to replace the car.
> The engine's fine, and has started for me almost without fail over the
> last
> 17 years - a *very* reliable car.
>
> So, is there a easy, reliable way to test the transmission/gears to see if
> replacing the clutch would be a waste due to a so-to-be-failing
> transmission/gears?
>
> Sometimes it's hard to shift, but I've noticed that *sometimes* if I pump
> the clutch, it will go into gear (if it's one of those times it's being
> stubborn about not wanting to go into gear). Sometimes it will partially
> go
> into gear and then if I keep the pressure on the stick shift, it will
> slide
> in the rest of the way. I don't mind spending about $1000 on the car if
> I'll
> give me another 3 years or so of reliable operation. $333/year isn't much
> over a 3 year period - and sure beats a new car payment at this point in
> my
> life. Other than the clutch, the front suspension could also stand some
> work
> (ride's a little 'bouncy' - replace *original* front struts?).
> Thanks for you hints and tips!
> Ken
>
>

Re: 1987 Manual Transmission Accord DX - Testing Transmission/Gears??
 

Just a quick "Thanks" to everyone who's replied!
Ken
"Ken Abrahamsen" <kabrahamsen@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:_E_ed.418856$mD.274472@attbi_s02...
>I have a 1987 Manual Transmission Accord DX with 220,000 miles on the
> original clutch (bought the car new). Although the book value of the car's
> not too much, I'm trying to see if it's reasonable to put a clutch in and
> have it last about another 3 years, until I can afford to replace the car.
> The engine's fine, and has started for me almost without fail over the
> last
> 17 years - a *very* reliable car.
>
> So, is there a easy, reliable way to test the transmission/gears to see if
> replacing the clutch would be a waste due to a so-to-be-failing
> transmission/gears?
>
> Sometimes it's hard to shift, but I've noticed that *sometimes* if I pump
> the clutch, it will go into gear (if it's one of those times it's being
> stubborn about not wanting to go into gear). Sometimes it will partially
> go
> into gear and then if I keep the pressure on the stick shift, it will
> slide
> in the rest of the way. I don't mind spending about $1000 on the car if
> I'll
> give me another 3 years or so of reliable operation. $333/year isn't much
> over a 3 year period - and sure beats a new car payment at this point in
> my
> life. Other than the clutch, the front suspension could also stand some
> work
> (ride's a little 'bouncy' - replace *original* front struts?).
> Thanks for you hints and tips!
> Ken
>
>