1990 Honda Accord Overheating
 

Hi folks,

My old Honda Accord got overheating trouble recently. Here is my
finding:
1. It got overheating on the local right off freeway or a long drive at
local.
2. The radiator fan start up right after the engine is shutdown. It
fail to start even the temperature gauge goes high and the engine is
running.
3. Didn't pay attention to condenser fan.

My doubts:
1. Radiator fan switch is bad. But it did start after the engine is
shutdown.
2. ECM sensor is bad. But I have no idea what this thing is and where
it is located.

Anyone has similar problem?

Thanks

Re: 1990 Honda Accord Overheating
 

For the record, how old's the thermostat? Is it an OEM
thermostat?

www.autozone.com has a free online manual for your car. The
CRX and Concerto factory service manuals at
http://www.honda.co.uk/car/owner/workshop.html should have
some exact instructions for testing various switches and
sensors.

"Ivan" <shiluus2001@yahoo.com> wrote
> Hi folks,
>
> My old Honda Accord got overheating trouble recently. Here
> is my
> finding:
> 1. It got overheating on the local right off freeway or a
> long drive at
> local.
> 2. The radiator fan start up right after the engine is
> shutdown. It
> fail to start even the temperature gauge goes high and the
> engine is
> running.
> 3. Didn't pay attention to condenser fan.
>
> My doubts:
> 1. Radiator fan switch is bad. But it did start after the
> engine is
> shutdown.
> 2. ECM sensor is bad. But I have no idea what this thing
> is and where
> it is located.
>
> Anyone has similar problem?
>
> Thanks
>

Re: 1990 Honda Accord Overheating
 

In article <1141336881.849016.67390@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups. com>, "Ivan"
<shiluus2001@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Hi folks,
>
> My old Honda Accord got overheating trouble recently. Here is my
> finding:
> 1. It got overheating on the local right off freeway or a long drive at
> local.
> 2. The radiator fan start up right after the engine is shutdown. It
> fail to start even the temperature gauge goes high and the engine is
> running.
> 3. Didn't pay attention to condenser fan.
>
> My doubts:
> 1. Radiator fan switch is bad. But it did start after the engine is
> shutdown.
> 2. ECM sensor is bad. But I have no idea what this thing is and where
> it is located.
>
> Anyone has similar problem?
>
> Thanks

Hello,
I suggest that you change the thermostat and check for any leaks while the
engine is running. You should also buy a repair manual for your Accord.
The manual should help you to locate the parts that you mentioned. If you
have never before changed a thermostat, take the car to a mechanic. If
possible, watch the mechanic in order to learn how to do it.
Jason

--
NEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO
We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice.
We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people.

Re: 1990 Honda Accord Overheating
 

Ivan wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> My old Honda Accord got overheating trouble recently. Here is my
> finding:
> 1. It got overheating on the local right off freeway or a long drive at
> local.
> 2. The radiator fan start up right after the engine is shutdown. It
> fail to start even the temperature gauge goes high and the engine is
> running.
> 3. Didn't pay attention to condenser fan.
>
> My doubts:
> 1. Radiator fan switch is bad. But it did start after the engine is
> shutdown.
> 2. ECM sensor is bad. But I have no idea what this thing is and where
> it is located.
>
> Anyone has similar problem?
>
> Thanks

Short the fan's thermos witch. The fan should come on.
If it doesn't, check the wiring.
If it comes on, leave it shorted and see if the temperature remains
normal. If it does, replace the switch. If it doesn't, there might not
be any coolant running by that switch. That might be caused by a bad
thermostat.

Remco

Re: 1990 Honda Accord Overheating
 

I have some new findings now and I am more confused.
1. For switch B, which is the condense fan switch according to repair
manual. This switch is closer to the front compared with switch A. No
fans come up running with the engine turned on even I short it. With
engine turned off, it automatically turns on the radiator fan
(passenger side) when engine is hot or I short it.
2. For switch A, which is the radiator fan switch. This switch is
closer to the fire wall compared with switch B. With engine turned off,
no fans come up even I short it.
With engine turned on, both fans come up if I short it. With engine and
A/C turned on, both fans turned on or off automatically.

Is it possible that the two fans has been mistakenly switched due to
installation error? I mean the radiator fan should come up when I
shorted with engine on.

Thanks for all replies. The conditions are: the thermostat should be
fine because the upper hose is hot. I just flushed the radiator and
carefully refill with a mixture of water and coolant. And of course,
the radiator is kind of dirty. I also noticed that if both fans comes
up, the temperature gauge goes down really fast.

Any other diagnose ideas?

Re: 1990 Honda Accord Overheating
 

Ivan wrote:
> I have some new findings now and I am more confused.
> 1. For switch B, which is the condense fan switch according to repair
> manual. This switch is closer to the front compared with switch A. No
> fans come up running with the engine turned on even I short it. With
> engine turned off, it automatically turns on the radiator fan
> (passenger side) when engine is hot or I short it.
> 2. For switch A, which is the radiator fan switch. This switch is
> closer to the fire wall compared with switch B. With engine turned off,
> no fans come up even I short it.
> With engine turned on, both fans come up if I short it. With engine and
> A/C turned on, both fans turned on or off automatically.
>
> Is it possible that the two fans has been mistakenly switched due to
> installation error? I mean the radiator fan should come up when I
> shorted with engine on.
>
> Thanks for all replies. The conditions are: the thermostat should be
> fine because the upper hose is hot. I just flushed the radiator and
> carefully refill with a mixture of water and coolant. And of course,
> the radiator is kind of dirty. I also noticed that if both fans comes
> up, the temperature gauge goes down really fast.
>
> Any other diagnose ideas?

When you say switch A and B, do you mean relay?
As far as I know, the condensor fan does not have a switch, but is
controlled by a signal from the ECM. When that signal is true, both
fans should run. I think there's usually a diode pack that takes care
of making sure both turn on.

When the engine cooland temperature switch (the switch, not the relay)
closes, it closes the contact on the radiator fan relay should close
and the radiator fan should run.
Have you located the coolant switch?

Re: 1990 Honda Accord Overheating
 

Remco wrote:
> Ivan wrote:
> > I have some new findings now and I am more confused.
> > 1. For switch B, which is the condense fan switch according to repair
> > manual. This switch is closer to the front compared with switch A. No
> > fans come up running with the engine turned on even I short it. With
> > engine turned off, it automatically turns on the radiator fan
> > (passenger side) when engine is hot or I short it.
> > 2. For switch A, which is the radiator fan switch. This switch is
> > closer to the fire wall compared with switch B. With engine turned off,
> > no fans come up even I short it.
> > With engine turned on, both fans come up if I short it. With engine and
> > A/C turned on, both fans turned on or off automatically.
> >
> > Is it possible that the two fans has been mistakenly switched due to
> > installation error? I mean the radiator fan should come up when I
> > shorted with engine on.
> >
> > Thanks for all replies. The conditions are: the thermostat should be
> > fine because the upper hose is hot. I just flushed the radiator and
> > carefully refill with a mixture of water and coolant. And of course,
> > the radiator is kind of dirty. I also noticed that if both fans comes
> > up, the temperature gauge goes down really fast.
> >
> > Any other diagnose ideas?
>
> When you say switch A and B, do you mean relay?
> As far as I know, the condensor fan does not have a switch, but is
> controlled by a signal from the ECM. When that signal is true, both
> fans should run. I think there's usually a diode pack that takes care
> of making sure both turn on.
>
> When the engine cooland temperature switch (the switch, not the relay)
> closes, it closes the contact on the radiator fan relay should close
> and the radiator fan should run.
> Have you located the coolant switch?

Sorry about confusing the issue - forget what I just said.
I found the schematic to your car at autozone.com and it has two
temperature sensors A and B - that must be what you are talking about.

I'd measure the voltage across both switches and see what happens when
the car warms up. They should both go from around 12V(cold) to zero
(hot). If you see 12V but never zero, I'd replace that particular
switch. If you never see 12V, check resistance across the switch. If it
isn't shorted, you may have an issue with that fan control module or
the wiring. If it is shorted, those fans should be on..

Report back with your findings. I'll bookmark the schematic.
Remco

Re: 1990 Honda Accord Overheating
 

"Ivan" <shiluus2001@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:1141357905.463626.187980@e56g2000cwe.googlegr oups.com:

> I have some new findings now and I am more confused.
> 1. For switch B, which is the condense fan switch according to repair
> manual.



The manual is not quite correct. Switch B is simply a secondary fan switch.
It comes on at a higher engine coolant temperature, and its power feed is
controlled by the timer unit.



> This switch is closer to the front compared with switch A. No
> fans come up running with the engine turned on even I short it. With
> engine turned off, it automatically turns on the radiator fan
> (passenger side) when engine is hot or I short it.
> 2. For switch A, which is the radiator fan switch. This switch is
> closer to the fire wall compared with switch B. With engine turned off,
> no fans come up even I short it.



That switch gets its power from the ignition switch. If the ignition is
off, it won't have power.



> With engine turned on, both fans come up if I short it. With engine and
> A/C turned on, both fans turned on or off automatically.



Do they come on *before* the engine temperature gauge starts to climb?



>
> Is it possible that the two fans has been mistakenly switched due to
> installation error? I mean the radiator fan should come up when I
> shorted with engine on.
>
> Thanks for all replies. The conditions are: the thermostat should be
> fine because the upper hose is hot.



The thermostat would be fine if the LOWER hose was hot! This isn't a 1976
Dodge. The thermostat is in the LOWER hose. The LOWER hose will not get hot
until the thermostat opens. And neither will the bottom of the rad.

How even is the temperature of the radiator core with the engine starting
to overheat?





> I just flushed the radiator and
> carefully refill with a mixture of water and coolant. And of course,
> the radiator is kind of dirty.



Inside or outside?



--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Re: 1990 Honda Accord Overheating
 

Hi TeGGeR®,

Thanks for your clarification. So I have to take the timer unit into
consideration when I diagnose the problem. Here is the answer to some
of your question:
1. Do they come on *before* the engine temperature gauge starts to
climb?
A> It definitely come on before the gauge reach the normal operation
temperature. I'll test to see if it come on when it is cold started.
2. Inside or outside?
A> Both Inside and outside, I used a power washer cleaned the outside,
but the inside still looks bad.

Question to you:
Where is the timer unit located or is it the ECM? How is it supposed to
work?

Thanks,
Ivan

Re: 1990 Honda Accord Overheating
 

Hi TeGGeR,

One more answer to your question:
I noticed that both upper and lower hoses are hot. When the engine
starts, the radiator and upper hose get hot a whole lot faster than the
lower hose. I also noticed that the old upper hose get swollen really
big before I replaced it. The new upper hose has the tendency to become
swollen.
Thanks for your analysis.

Re: 1990 Honda Accord Overheating
 

"Ivan" <shiluus2001@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:1141653713.651973.247200@i40g2000cwc.googlegr oups.com:

> Hi TeGGeR,
>
> One more answer to your question:
> I noticed that both upper and lower hoses are hot. When the engine
> starts, the radiator and upper hose get hot a whole lot faster than the
> lower hose. I also noticed that the old upper hose get swollen really
> big before I replaced it. The new upper hose has the tendency to become
> swollen.



Ohhhh, that's not good... If the upper hose is swollen, then you've got
excessive pressure in there. How old is the rad cap? Have you tried
replacing it?

Sounds like you probably have nothing wrong with your timer unit, but more
mundane problems with a dirty system or bad thermostat.

If you still want to find the timer, it's here:
http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/...ash_relays.pdf

--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Re: 1990 Honda Accord Overheating
 

The cap is a new one and I am in the process to replace the radiator.
The problem is I rarely saw the coolant flow to the reserve bottle.
Let's suppose that the system is dirty and flow really slow, the
coolant still still need to flow to the bottle if it is really hot.
I'll see if replacing the radiator make any sense or not. I'll post the
result here.

Re: 1990 Honda Accord Overheating
 

"TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in
news:Xns977EDCD938AEtegger@207.14.113.17:

> "Ivan" <shiluus2001@yahoo.com> wrote in
> news:1141653713.651973.247200@i40g2000cwc.googlegr oups.com:
>
>> Hi TeGGeR,
>>
>> One more answer to your question:
>> I noticed that both upper and lower hoses are hot. When the engine
>> starts, the radiator and upper hose get hot a whole lot faster than
>> the lower hose. I also noticed that the old upper hose get swollen
>> really big before I replaced it. The new upper hose has the tendency
>> to become swollen.
>
>
>
> Ohhhh, that's not good... If the upper hose is swollen, then you've
> got excessive pressure in there. How old is the rad cap? Have you
> tried replacing it?
>
> Sounds like you probably have nothing wrong with your timer unit, but
> more mundane problems with a dirty system or bad thermostat.
>
> If you still want to find the timer, it's here:
> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/...ash_relays.pdf
>

excessive pressure in the cooling system could also be a bad cylinder head
gasket.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

Re: 1990 Honda Accord Overheating
 

Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote in
news:Xns977F4C95B52BFjyanikkuanet@129.250.170.85:

> "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in
> news:Xns977EDCD938AEtegger@207.14.113.17:

>>
>> Sounds like you probably have nothing wrong with your timer unit, but
>> more mundane problems with a dirty system or bad thermostat.
>>
>> If you still want to find the timer, it's here:
>> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/...ash_relays.pdf
>>
>
> excessive pressure in the cooling system could also be a bad cylinder
> head gasket.
>



Correct. And at that point you'd see the reservoir level climb up high,
then not drop back down again, and the rad level would decline at the same
time.

--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Re: 1990 Honda Accord Overheating
 

"Ivan" <shiluus2001@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:1141707373.639488.205450@p10g2000cwp.googlegr oups.com:

> The cap is a new one and I am in the process to replace the radiator.
> The problem is I rarely saw the coolant flow to the reserve bottle.
> Let's suppose that the system is dirty and flow really slow, the
> coolant still still need to flow to the bottle if it is really hot.
> I'll see if replacing the radiator make any sense or not. I'll post the
> result here.
>


Replace the thermostat first.

Check my other reply (to Jim Yanik).

--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Re: 1990 Honda Accord Overheating
 

"Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote in message
news:Xns977F4C95B52BFjyanikkuanet@129.250.170.85.. .
>
> excessive pressure in the cooling system could also be a bad cylinder head
> gasket.
>
> --
> Jim Yanik

That doesn't make a lot of sense to me - I would think the cap would still
bypass the pressure - but it is widely reported so somehow it must be true.

Mike

Re: 1990 Honda Accord Overheating
 

I asked a garage to replace the thermostat when they replaced the
broken water pump (I mean it was broken and water leaked out through
the hole). If they really did it, my thermostat is only two months old.
The garage guys just can't figure out the problem and asked me replace
everything except the engine.

Re: 1990 Honda Accord Overheating
 

Ivan wrote:
> I asked a garage to replace the thermostat when they replaced the
> broken water pump (I mean it was broken and water leaked out through
> the hole). If they really did it, my thermostat is only two months old.
> The garage guys just can't figure out the problem and asked me replace
> everything except the engine.

OEM Honda is recommended. Maybe they put in an aftermarket thermostat?

Re: 1990 Honda Accord Overheating
 

"Remco" <whybcuz@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:1141773114.882384.262220@u72g2000cwu.googlegr oups.com:

>
> Ivan wrote:
>> I asked a garage to replace the thermostat when they replaced the
>> broken water pump (I mean it was broken and water leaked out through
>> the hole). If they really did it, my thermostat is only two months old.
>> The garage guys just can't figure out the problem and asked me replace
>> everything except the engine.
>
> OEM Honda is recommended. Maybe they put in an aftermarket thermostat?
>
>

When I checked thermostats at PepBoys,all they had was 180 degF ones,and my
Integra GSR uses a 195 degF TS. I bought one from the Acura dealership.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

Re: 1990 Honda Accord Overheating
 

The thermostat they replaced got to be an aftermarket one. The radiator
running in this car is also a aftermarket product. I am thinking to get
all these corrected.

Re: 1990 Honda Accord Overheating
 

"Ivan" <shiluus2001@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:1141792239.744134.313720@u72g2000cwu.googlegr oups.com:

> The thermostat they replaced got to be an aftermarket one. The radiator
> running in this car is also a aftermarket product. I am thinking to get
> all these corrected.
>
>

There's probably nothing wrong with using an aftermarket radiator,but the
TS,I'd go with an OEM part from the dealership.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

Re: 1990 Honda Accord Overheating
 

"Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote
> "Ivan" <shiluus2001@yahoo.com> wrote
>> The thermostat they replaced got to be an aftermarket
>> one. The radiator
>> running in this car is also a aftermarket product. I am
>> thinking to get
>> all these corrected.
>
> There's probably nothing wrong with using an aftermarket
> radiator,

Ivan, for a bit more reinforcement on the radiator, you can
google this group's archives. My recollection is that this
is one component for which people routinely and successfully
go aftermarket.

> but the
> TS,I'd go with an OEM part from the dealership.

For sure, use only an OEM thermostat. Also available online
at www.slhonda.com and www.hondaautomotiveparts.com , though
it's cheap enough that with shipping, the dealer should be
competitive with the online sites.

Re: 1990 Honda Accord Overheating
 

Thanks for all input for this problem. Now the problem is fixed by
replacing the rad. What I learnt here is tape water can never be used
for a rad. My rad is only three years new. The mineral dirt builds up
really quick.

Re: 1990 Honda Accord Overheating
 

Ivan wrote:
> Thanks for all input for this problem. Now the problem is fixed by
> replacing the rad. What I learnt here is tape water can never be used
> for a rad. My rad is only three years new. The mineral dirt builds up
> really quick.

Well, your real problem was that the water was three years old :)

Seriously, using tap water and wrong antifreeze is referred to as
Honda-cide on this group.

Re: 1990 Honda Accord Overheating
 

travis here, one question, would a faulty egr valve cause overheating?
when raining, water on my hood evaporates, you can actually see the
steam rising, car is extremely hot and fluid in my radiator is gone
after drivin for 2 days. antifreeze is not cheap. i changed all
belts, timing, alternator, and compressor. replaced the thermostat and
radiator cap, and fluid is to capacity. i have nothing else to check.
help needed.
Remco wrote:
> Ivan wrote:
> > Thanks for all input for this problem. Now the problem is fixed by
> > replacing the rad. What I learnt here is tape water can never be used
> > for a rad. My rad is only three years new. The mineral dirt builds up
> > really quick.
>
> Well, your real problem was that the water was three years old :)
>
> Seriously, using tap water and wrong antifreeze is referred to as
> Honda-cide on this group.

Re: 1990 Honda Accord Overheating
 

flutie1 wrote:
> travis here, one question, would a faulty egr valve cause overheating?
> when raining, water on my hood evaporates, you can actually see the
> steam rising, car is extremely hot and fluid in my radiator is gone
> after drivin for 2 days. antifreeze is not cheap. i changed all
> belts, timing, alternator, and compressor. replaced the thermostat and
> radiator cap, and fluid is to capacity. i have nothing else to check.
> help needed.

Are your fans coming on properly?
Did you replace your thermostat with an original Honda thermostat?
No abnormal color smoke out of your exhaust?

Re: 1990 Honda Accord Overheating
 

flutie1 wrote:
>
> travis here, one question, would a faulty egr valve cause overheating?
> when raining, water on my hood evaporates, you can actually see the
> steam rising, car is extremely hot and fluid in my radiator is gone
> after drivin for 2 days. antifreeze is not cheap. i changed all
> belts, timing, alternator, and compressor. replaced the thermostat and
> radiator cap, and fluid is to capacity. i have nothing else to check.
> help needed.
----------------------

The system HAS to pressurize, or it will boil off. Rad cap is what
manages that part. Leaks in hoses, block, rad can't be allowed or system
won't pressurize and won't replenish itself from the reservoir when it
cools. Reservoir has to be full to MAX and you have to check it (at
least) every morning when you're having cooling troubles. Fans won't cut
in if there's air in the system because the sensors are FULL IMMERSION
type. Tap water is called HONDACIDE. Honda premix is totally idiot
proof. That's all I know. (I didn't read all the previous posts).

'Curly'