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1990 honda crx dx - wont start spark problem - really need help
I have a 1990 honda crx dx 1.5 auto
The car is stock with no modifications I have done a lot trying to get it to run so I will list all I can. The car died on me while driving it ... sputtered to a stop. After putting a new coil in it I did get it to start for about 2 minutes running really rough I am not sure if I fried the new coil but it will not restart. It is the last thing I tried other then recharging the battery which is good. This is my main transportation and I am really stumped, somewhat stranded and without resources to dump parts in it that may just endup getting fried I really appreciate your help if you can point me in the right direction Things I have done and checked. - I get 1 blink on my ECU battery has been out and still one blink after so it must have reset. - Check engine light comes on then goes off after 3 seconds. - Fuel Pump is Good pumping Hard - Main Relay Checked with Ohm Meter all three steps - good - Replaced the Cap & Rotor - Replaced the wires - Replaced the Igniter - Replaced the Coil - Spark plugs not fowled look Gray - Battery is Good - Engine Ground Strap installed Seems Good - Alternator is Good and Turns Free cant really test output - Checked all my fuses they all seem good Replaced a few with spares - I get power to the Coil with Ignition On - I get power through the coil to the igniter - Engine cranks Starter is good - Rotor Turns in Distributor - Timing Belt Good - TDC Lines Up with Crank Mark and #1 Spark Plug Wire - Engine Turns Free with socket wrench - Ignition switch - does crank the starter and I get voltage to the Distributor That is about all I can think of so far. looking at the wire diagrams I am not sure why it would not at least start. Are there any inline resistors or anything that would do this? Thanks |
Re: 1990 honda crx dx - wont start spark problem - really need help
<CrxChicken@anonamoo.com> wrote in
news:hbu14s$21fs$1@news.telesweet.net: > I have a 1990 honda crx dx 1.5 auto > The car is stock with no modifications > I have done a lot trying to get it to run so I will list all I can. > > The car died on me while driving it ... sputtered to a stop. > > After putting a new coil in it I did get it to start for about 2 > minutes running really rough I am not sure if I fried the new coil but > it will not restart. When you crank and the engine will not start, does the tach needle jiggle ever so slightly, or is it dead-still? -- Tegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ |
Re: 1990 honda crx dx - wont start spark problem - really need help
When I turn the ignition to On the tach goes to 500 rpm
When the engine is cranking I don't see any real movement Ignitor is new "Tegger" <invalid@invalid.inv> wrote in message news:Xns9CAE567D5F92tegger@208.90.168.18... > <CrxChicken@anonamoo.com> wrote in > news:hbu14s$21fs$1@news.telesweet.net: > >> I have a 1990 honda crx dx 1.5 auto >> The car is stock with no modifications >> I have done a lot trying to get it to run so I will list all I can. >> >> The car died on me while driving it ... sputtered to a stop. >> >> After putting a new coil in it I did get it to start for about 2 >> minutes running really rough I am not sure if I fried the new coil but >> it will not restart. > > > > When you crank and the engine will not start, does the tach needle jiggle > ever so slightly, or is it dead-still? > > > > -- > Tegger > > The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ > www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ |
Re: 1990 honda crx dx - wont start spark problem - really need help
<CrxChicken@anonamoo.com> wrote in news:hbvasb$8gs$1@news.telesweet.net:
> "Tegger" <invalid@invalid.inv> wrote in message > news:Xns9CAE567D5F92tegger@208.90.168.18... >> <CrxChicken@anonamoo.com> wrote in >> news:hbu14s$21fs$1@news.telesweet.net: >> >>> I have a 1990 honda crx dx 1.5 auto >>> The car is stock with no modifications >>> I have done a lot trying to get it to run so I will list all I can. >>> >>> The car died on me while driving it ... sputtered to a stop. >>> >>> After putting a new coil in it I did get it to start for about 2 >>> minutes running really rough I am not sure if I fried the new coil >>> but it will not restart. >> >> >> >> When you crank and the engine will not start, does the tach needle >> jiggle ever so slightly, or is it dead-still? >> >> >> > > > When I turn the ignition to On the tach goes to 500 rpm > When the engine is cranking I don't see any real movement > > Ignitor is new > > And aftermarket, I'll bet. I'll also bet your new igniter is bad. When cranking you don't see any "real" movement of the needle, or you don't see **ANY** movement? Does the tach drop to 0 when you start to crank? Please be precise. -- Tegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ |
Re: 1990 honda crx dx - wont start spark problem - really need help
Just went out and tried starting it
RPM guage goes to just over 500 with key on stays there while cranking Think the cam position sensor is bad? ALSO the other day just before i put the Coil in I had the Main Relay out to test it It tested ok with battery voltage but do you think it could be an intermitant failure? I get no spark but do get fuel Think direct battery voltage to it or bumping it may have got it to work once and then fail again? Does the main relay give a signal to the ecu -> then ecu to the ignitor to tell it to fire? also i put the heat sink jell between the ignitor and the small metal part that it attaches (Heatsink i guess) to did i need to put any between the metal part and the distributor housing? Yes its a aftermarket borgwarner ignitor I believe i replaced it for no good reason and the old one was good but i dont know "Tegger" >>>> I have a 1990 honda crx dx 1.5 auto >>>> The car is stock with no modifications >>>> I have done a lot trying to get it to run so I will list all I can. >>>> >>>> The car died on me while driving it ... sputtered to a stop. >>>> >>>> After putting a new coil in it I did get it to start for about 2 >>>> minutes running really rough I am not sure if I fried the new coil >>>> but it will not restart. > > And aftermarket, I'll bet. I'll also bet your new igniter is bad. > > When cranking you don't see any "real" movement of the needle, or you > don't > see **ANY** movement? Does the tach drop to 0 when you start to crank? > > > Please be precise. > > > -- > Tegger > > The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ > www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ |
Re: 1990 honda crx dx - wont start spark problem - really need help
<CrxChicken@anonamoo.com> wrote in news:hbvggm$e00$1@news.telesweet.net:
> "Tegger" wrote: > > >> I'll also bet your new igniter is bad. >> >> >> When cranking you don't see any "real" movement of the needle, or you >> don't >> see **ANY** movement? Does the tach drop to 0 when you start to >> crank? >> > > > Just went out and tried starting it > > RPM guage goes to just over 500 with key on > stays there while cranking > > Think the cam position sensor is bad? No. The igniter has failed and was likely defective out-of-the-box, which is common for aftermarket garbage. The tach gets its signal from the igniter's blue wire. That wire gets a pulse every time the igniter produces a coil-trigger signal. If your tach gets stuck at 500, then the igniter is putting out spurious signals. Go to a wrecking yard and pick up an OEM igniter for much cheaper than your crappy aftermarket one. > > ALSO > the other day just before i put the Coil in > I had the Main Relay out to test it > It tested ok with battery voltage but do you think it could be an > intermitant failure? Not in this case. The tach's behavior is the giveaway here. > I get no spark but do get fuel > Think direct battery voltage to it or bumping it may have got it to > work once and then fail again? > > > Does the main relay give a signal to the ecu -> then ecu to the > ignitor to tell it to fire? No. The igniter is totally separate from the Main Relay. In your car, fuel delivery is totally separate from ignition. > > also i put the heat sink jell between the ignitor and the small metal > part that it attaches (Heatsink i guess) to did i need to put any > between the metal part and the distributor housing? You put heat-sink compound under the igniter before bolting it in place. > > Yes its a aftermarket borgwarner ignitor > I believe i replaced it for no good reason and the old one was good > but i dont know If you still have the old igniter, then put it back in as an experiment. -- Tegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ |
Re: 1990 honda crx dx - wont start spark problem - really need help
Ok thats kinda hard to believe but you seem to know about these things have
been reading your howtos Is there a way I can bench test the igniter? Is there something that would burn out an ignitor that i should check for? There is really no good junkyards here most places just send cars off to be crushed but maybe i can find something... Could a parts place or dealer test it. I got a dealer about 40 miles away I could probably scam a ride down there but the closest decent junkyard is well over 100 >> "Tegger" wrote: >> > No. The igniter has failed and was likely defective out-of-the-box, > which is common for aftermarket garbage. > > The tach gets its signal from the igniter's blue wire. That wire gets a > pulse every time the igniter produces a coil-trigger signal. If your > tach gets stuck at 500, then the igniter is putting out spurious > signals. > > Go to a wrecking yard and pick up an OEM igniter for much cheaper than > your crappy aftermarket one. > |
Re: 1990 honda crx dx - wont start spark problem - really need help
<CrxChicken@anonamoo.com> wrote in
news:hc0av8$16o0$1@news.telesweet.net: > >>> "Tegger" wrote: >>> >> No. The igniter has failed and was likely defective out-of-the-box, >> which is common for aftermarket garbage. >> >> The tach gets its signal from the igniter's blue wire. That wire gets >> a pulse every time the igniter produces a coil-trigger signal. If >> your tach gets stuck at 500, then the igniter is putting out spurious >> signals. >> >> Go to a wrecking yard and pick up an OEM igniter for much cheaper >> than your crappy aftermarket one. >> > > > > > Ok thats kinda hard to believe but you seem to know about these things > have been reading your howtos Then you haven't got much experience with aftermarket parts, I think. Aftermarket has a very high likelihood of being defective right off the bat. That's why I never use aftermarket. > > Is there a way I can bench test the igniter? There sure is. Lots of resources here: http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/start...tml#badigniter > Is there something that would burn out an ignitor that i should check > for? Pretty much the only thing that wrecks an igniter is defective build quality. And there's nothing you can do about that. > > There is really no good junkyards here most places just send cars off > to be crushed but maybe i can find something... > Could a parts place or dealer test it. > I got a dealer about 40 miles away I could probably scam a ride down > there > > but the closest decent junkyard is well over 100 THEN PUT YOUR OLD IGNITER BACK IN AS A TEST. Or did you toss it already? -- Tegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ |
Re: 1990 honda crx dx - wont start spark problem - really need help
I have my old ignitor
I will try the test on it and pop it back in tomorrow see what happens > > THEN PUT YOUR OLD IGNITER BACK IN AS A TEST. Or did you toss it already? > > > -- > Tegger > > The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ > www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ |
Re: 1990 honda crx dx - wont start spark problem - really need help
Thus spake Tegger <invalid@invalid.inv> :
><CrxChicken@anonamoo.com> wrote in news:hbvggm$e00$1@news.telesweet.net: > > >> "Tegger" wrote: >> >> >>> I'll also bet your new igniter is bad. >>> >>> >>> When cranking you don't see any "real" movement of the needle, or you >>> don't >>> see **ANY** movement? Does the tach drop to 0 when you start to >>> crank? >>> >> >> >> Just went out and tried starting it >> >> RPM guage goes to just over 500 with key on >> stays there while cranking >> >> Think the cam position sensor is bad? > > > >No. The igniter has failed and was likely defective out-of-the-box, >which is common for aftermarket garbage. > >The tach gets its signal from the igniter's blue wire. That wire gets a >pulse every time the igniter produces a coil-trigger signal. If your >tach gets stuck at 500, then the igniter is putting out spurious >signals. > >Go to a wrecking yard and pick up an OEM igniter for much cheaper than >your crappy aftermarket one. One can still find some NIB parts for cars that old. I have found NIB parts for my 76 MGB. > > > >> >> ALSO >> the other day just before i put the Coil in >> I had the Main Relay out to test it >> It tested ok with battery voltage but do you think it could be an >> intermitant failure? > > > >Not in this case. The tach's behavior is the giveaway here. > > > > >> I get no spark but do get fuel >> Think direct battery voltage to it or bumping it may have got it to >> work once and then fail again? >> >> >> Does the main relay give a signal to the ecu -> then ecu to the >> ignitor to tell it to fire? > > > >No. The igniter is totally separate from the Main Relay. > >In your car, fuel delivery is totally separate from ignition. > > > >> >> also i put the heat sink jell between the ignitor and the small metal >> part that it attaches (Heatsink i guess) to did i need to put any >> between the metal part and the distributor housing? > > > >You put heat-sink compound under the igniter before bolting it in place. > > > >> >> Yes its a aftermarket borgwarner ignitor >> I believe i replaced it for no good reason and the old one was good >> but i dont know > > > >If you still have the old igniter, then put it back in as an experiment. > -- - dillon I am not invalid "Always shoot first. At the very least you'll distract the guy enough to make the second one count" -- Lazurus Long |
Re: 1990 honda crx dx - wont start spark problem - really need help
Dillon Pyron <invaliddmpyron@austin.rr.com> wrote in
news:bov9e516qn8vjtbvv5aj1shcvq9um6nmqs@4ax.com: > Thus spake Tegger <invalid@invalid.inv> : > >> >>Go to a wrecking yard and pick up an OEM igniter for much cheaper than >>your crappy aftermarket one. > > One can still find some NIB parts for cars that old. I have found NIB > parts for my 76 MGB. > The OP's igniter is abundantly available as-new from Honda, as are just about all the mechanical parts. But it's also expensive (about $120), which is why I suggested to the OP to just get one from the wreckers. -- Tegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ |
Re: 1990 honda crx dx - wont start spark problem - really need help
Thus spake Tegger <invalid@invalid.inv> :
>Dillon Pyron <invaliddmpyron@austin.rr.com> wrote in >news:bov9e516qn8vjtbvv5aj1shcvq9um6nmqs@4ax.com : > >> Thus spake Tegger <invalid@invalid.inv> : >> > >>> >>>Go to a wrecking yard and pick up an OEM igniter for much cheaper than >>>your crappy aftermarket one. >> >> One can still find some NIB parts for cars that old. I have found NIB >> parts for my 76 MGB. >> > > > >The OP's igniter is abundantly available as-new from Honda, as are just >about all the mechanical parts. > >But it's also expensive (about $120), which is why I suggested to the OP to >just get one from the wreckers. True, give that his car probably isn't worth (on the street) $120. The car is worth much more to him, as it's not costing a car payment. -- - dillon I am not invalid "Always shoot first. At the very least you'll distract the guy enough to make the second one count" -- Lazurus Long |
Re: 1990 honda crx dx - wont start spark problem - really need help
Exactly
considering I just dropped New Coil New Ignitor New Wires New Cap - Rotor And I have a Timing belt w tensioner Waterpump and 2 accessory belts ready to go on it AND I just bought 4 new tires in June with less then 500 miles on them I am getting dam close to the bluebook value HA! Its been raining no time to work on car Ideas for fixing this thing are VERY appreciated Oh the old ignitor is a NEC the new one is a Tru Tech >>But it's also expensive (about $120), which is why I suggested to the OP >>to >>just get one from the wreckers. > > True, give that his car probably isn't worth (on the street) $120. The > car is worth much more to him, as it's not costing a car payment. > -- > > - dillon I am not invalid > > "Always shoot first. At the very least you'll > distract the guy enough to make the second one count" > -- Lazurus Long |
Re: 1990 honda crx dx - wont start spark problem - really need help
Hey I was just trying to figure out how the ignitor tells the coil to
fire.... What happens? The power comes into the coil and through to the ignitor and then the ecu tells the ignitor to cause an open in that circuit and then the power stops going through the coil to the ignitor and it goes out the secondary to the rotor then eventually to the plugs? so if i put a test light between the wire comming out of the coil to the ignitor it should blink when i crank the engine. If not then the ignitor or the cam sensors could be bad and if it blinks then the coil is bad ????? |
Re: 1990 honda crx dx - wont start spark problem - really need help
<CrxChicken@anonamoo.com> wrote in news:hcb44v$2kf7$1@news.telesweet.net:
> Hey I was just trying to figure out how the ignitor tells the coil to > fire.... > > What happens? I posted this link before. You apparently haven't looked at it, so here it is again: <http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/startproblems.html#badigniter> There are diagrams and everything there. Have you tried swapping back the original igniter yet? -- Tegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ |
Re: 1990 honda crx dx - wont start spark problem - really need help
<CrxChicken@anonamoo.com> wrote in
news:hcauji$2gd0$1@news.telesweet.net: > > Its been raining no time to work on car Then wait until you can swap in the old igniter (not "ignitor") and stop speculating. While waiting for the rain to stop, read this: <http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/startproblems.html#badigniter> > > Ideas for fixing this thing are VERY appreciated You've been given an idea already, which you haven't tried yet. > > Oh the old ignitor is a NEC the new one is a Tru Tech NEC, TEC and OKI are original Honda. This "Tru-Tech" thing is very much aftermarket. -- Tegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ |
Re: 1990 honda crx dx - wont start spark problem - really need help
No no chance yet hopefuly tomorrow I will get some time to work on it I am
dodging rain and work I did perform the honda manual test on the original ignitor http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ignit...n-car-test.pdf I went through all the steps which pointed to a bad ignitor and then replaced the ignitor still had the same simptom then about a week later i got a new coil put it in with new cap rotor wires ignitor Engine ran for about 2 minutes real rough then died http://i33.tinypic.com/dw5s9g.jpg Here is a picture inside my Distributor with the coil removed and the new ignitor in place |
Re: 1990 honda crx dx - wont start spark problem - really need help
I put the old ignitor in and it fired up
I also blew out the distributor with compressed air dont know how much dust was in there but a lot So it is running but not normal I dont want to touch it anymore today I dropped an ignitor screw and lost it but i had an extra. then thinking I better ... I put the cap bolts in a tray and put it on the battery and then while reaching tipped that over ... Very Not Fun Day. but at least it started Im sure its going to need more work "Tegger" <invalid@invalid.inv> wrote in message news:Xns9CB3550D8548Ftegger@208.90.168.18... > <CrxChicken@anonamoo.com> wrote in news:hcb44v$2kf7$1@news.telesweet.net: > >> Hey I was just trying to figure out how the ignitor tells the coil to >> fire.... >> >> What happens? > > > > I posted this link before. You apparently haven't looked at it, so here it > is again: > <http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/startproblems.html#badigniter> > > There are diagrams and everything there. > > Have you tried swapping back the original igniter yet? > > > -- > Tegger > > The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ > www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ |
Re: 1990 honda crx dx - wont start spark problem - really need help
Do you think maybe i have a bad 12v wire in the distributor that is eaten
out inside and shows good with an ohm meter if the wire gets pushed around? If the old ignitor works it makes me wonder what the original problem was... Maybe the coil but the ohm meter tested the coil as good makes it hard to trust it to drive "Tegger" <invalid@invalid.inv> wrote in message news:Xns9CB3550D8548Ftegger@208.90.168.18... > <CrxChicken@anonamoo.com> wrote in news:hcb44v$2kf7$1@news.telesweet.net: > >> Hey I was just trying to figure out how the ignitor tells the coil to >> fire.... >> >> What happens? > > > > I posted this link before. You apparently haven't looked at it, so here it > is again: > <http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/startproblems.html#badigniter> > > There are diagrams and everything there. > > Have you tried swapping back the original igniter yet? > > > -- > Tegger > > The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ > www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ |
Re: 1990 honda crx dx - wont start spark problem - really need help
last question i will ask tonight
I dont even want to think what full a Honda Distributor would cost I have seen aftermarket ones under $300 or about that Rebuilt and new Do you have any reccomendation on a brand? Dorman, Cardone, Other Also any other suggestions thanks |
Re: 1990 honda crx dx - wont start spark problem - really need help
<CrxChicken@anonamoo.com> wrote in news:hcnnsi$fak$1@news.telesweet.net:
> Do you think maybe i have a bad 12v wire in the distributor that is > eaten out inside and shows good with an ohm meter if the wire gets > pushed around? > > If the old ignitor works it makes me wonder what the original problem > was... > > Maybe the coil but the ohm meter tested the coil as good > > makes it hard to trust it to drive > > You CANNOT test coils with a VOM, no matter what anybody tells you. Pushing 1.5V or whatever through the windings is NOT the same as zapping the windings with 20,000 volts. What color is the spark? Test this with an actual plug stuck in one of the plug wires. Do not use a spark tester. Test at night, or in a darkened garage. You want purply-blue and nothing less. How old are the wires? The cap? The rotor? How long did you let it run? -- Tegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ |
Re: 1990 honda crx dx - wont start spark problem - really need help
<CrxChicken@anonamoo.com> wrote in news:hcnofk$fqt$1@news.telesweet.net:
> last question i will ask tonight > > I dont even want to think what full a Honda Distributor would cost About $800. But there are also wrecking yards with an abundance of perfectly good OEM Honda parts for cheaper than new/reman aftermarket. > > I have seen aftermarket ones under $300 or about that > Rebuilt and new > > Do you have any reccomendation on a brand? > > Dorman, Cardone, Other OEM Honda. The others are crap. > > Also any other suggestions thanks > > 1) You've just had a bad experience with one aftermarket part (which I predicted way back in my very first reply), and you want to put /more/ aftermarket parts in your ignition system? 2) What makes you think you need a new distributor? 3) Did you even read my reply immediately previous to this one? Have you read ANYTHING I posted? Frankly, your replies don't sound as though you have. -- Tegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ |
Re: 1990 honda crx dx - wont start spark problem - really need help
Yea like i said in my very first post
New Cap, Wires, Rotor, coil, ignitor Everything was new and although you say all aftermarket Ignitors are crap .... it was new and its hard to believe 100% of them come out of the box DOA. big class action suits and stuff heh I only let it run for about a minute or so ... ran it up to Redline a few times. RPM Guage is not responding accurately to the RPMs of the engine ... could be the guage i guess. Yea I know you cant really test a coil like that but it was not open so thats something It is pretty hard to test a distributor without a test station that can dyno it.and its not like the old days with points and weights. Anyway the engine feels different but it could be just from stitting. The ehaust smells like acetone or carb cleaner but i haven't used any. I appreciate your help Its probably one of the last things I would have swapped back in because it was the first thing that I thought was bad..... However I am not sure why the car died in the first place. The old cap could have been the problem or the large amount of dust buildup in the distributor could have caused a problem. but like i said I wonder if I have a bluewhite wire that may be on its last leg just getting contact for the moment because I pushed the wires around when I opened the distributor. They test ok for continuity but it could be like a battery cable that gets eaten out inside .. the thing is 20 years old. the gaskets on the distributor are breaking down Im sure a lot of things are... I have been working nights for the past few weeks making it difficult to get time to work on the car that along with the rain ... but thanks again I will still be working on it for a while and hope if I run into any other problems you might lend an ear and a answer. "Tegger" <invalid@invalid.inv> wrote in message news:Xns9CB7B8A6DC8BAtegger@208.90.168.18... > <CrxChicken@anonamoo.com> wrote in news:hcnnsi$fak$1@news.telesweet.net: > > > You CANNOT test coils with a VOM, no matter what anybody tells you. > > Pushing 1.5V or whatever through the windings is NOT the same as zapping > the windings with 20,000 volts. > > What color is the spark? Test this with an actual plug stuck in one of the > plug wires. Do not use a spark tester. Test at night, or in a darkened > garage. You want purply-blue and nothing less. > > How old are the wires? The cap? The rotor? > > How long did you let it run? > > > -- > Tegger > > The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ > www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ |
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