1991 Accord--tach goes to "0" when I turn lights or heat on
 

I have a 1991 Accord with a 5spd F20A SOHC motor that is having problems
today. I woke up to take kids to school and car was dead. Car was not
started for 5 days and my wife said that yesterday she heard the cooling fan
running in the garage. Garage is heated to 55 degrees. So, I jumped the car
and idle was fluctuating and car was running very "choppy". When I hit the
gas, the engine sputtered and back fired through the throttle body. I left
the car running for the 10-15 minutes that it took me to drop off kids in
truck. When I came back, car was idling fine(@850rpms) and running smooth.
I thought it was okay now. I turned it off after another 10 mins and went
back inside. Now, I started it and went to work and everything seemed okay.
When I went to go to lunch, battery was almost dead (laboring to turn over)
so I let it run for a few minutes, then as I was about to pull off, I turned
on the lights and the tach dropped to "0" like the car stalled but it was
still running. When I hit the gas it was sputtering and back firing. I
turned the lights off and the tach went back to normal. I turned the heat on
and the tach went back to "0". Hopefully I will be able to limp the car the
6 miles to get home without getting pulled over for no head lights.

Any input is greatly appreciated.

Re: 1991 Accord--tach goes to "0" when I turn lights or heat on
 

On Tue, 26 Feb 2008 04:37:02 +0000, jim_l wrote:

> Any input is greatly appreciated.

The ing thing is 17 years old. That's what happens with cars that
old. Get rid of it, and get something newer. Duh.


--
"Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".

Re: 1991 Accord--tach goes to "0" when I turn lights or heat on
 

jim_l wrote:
> I have a 1991 Accord with a 5spd F20A SOHC motor that is having problems
> today. I woke up to take kids to school and car was dead. Car was not
> started for 5 days and my wife said that yesterday she heard the cooling fan
> running in the garage. Garage is heated to 55 degrees. So, I jumped the car
> and idle was fluctuating and car was running very "choppy". When I hit the
> gas, the engine sputtered and back fired through the throttle body. I left
> the car running for the 10-15 minutes that it took me to drop off kids in
> truck. When I came back, car was idling fine(@850rpms) and running smooth.
> I thought it was okay now. I turned it off after another 10 mins and went
> back inside. Now, I started it and went to work and everything seemed okay.
> When I went to go to lunch, battery was almost dead (laboring to turn over)
> so I let it run for a few minutes, then as I was about to pull off, I turned
> on the lights and the tach dropped to "0" like the car stalled but it was
> still running. When I hit the gas it was sputtering and back firing. I
> turned the lights off and the tach went back to normal. I turned the heat on
> and the tach went back to "0". Hopefully I will be able to limp the car the
> 6 miles to get home without getting pulled over for no head lights.
>
> Any input is greatly appreciated.
>
--------------------------

Disconnect the battery for 20 seconds so everything can reboot. You have
a few ghosts in the machine. Then do an 'idle learn procedure, if things
don't return to perfect:

http://www.hondasuv.com/members/show...earn+procedure

'Curly'

Re: 1991 Accord--tach goes to "0" when I turn lights or heat on
 

On Feb 25, 11:37 pm, "jim_l" <u41648@uwe> wrote:
> I have a 1991 Accord with a 5spd F20A SOHC motor that is having problems
> today. I woke up to take kids to school and car was dead. Car was not
> started for 5 days and my wife said that yesterday she heard the cooling fan
> running in the garage. Garage is heated to 55 degrees. So, I jumped the car
> and idle was fluctuating and car was running very "choppy". When I hit the
> gas, the engine sputtered and back fired through the throttle body. I left
> the car running for the 10-15 minutes that it took me to drop off kids in
> truck. When I came back, car was idling fine(@850rpms) and running smooth.
> I thought it was okay now. I turned it off after another 10 mins and went
> back inside. Now, I started it and went to work and everything seemed okay.
> When I went to go to lunch, battery was almost dead (laboring to turn over)
> so I let it run for a few minutes, then as I was about to pull off, I turned
> on the lights and the tach dropped to "0" like the car stalled but it was
> still running. When I hit the gas it was sputtering and back firing. I
> turned the lights off and the tach went back to normal. I turned the heat on
> and the tach went back to "0". Hopefully I will be able to limp the car the
> 6 miles to get home without getting pulled over for no head lights.
>
> Any input is greatly appreciated.

The thermosensor that controls the cooling fan is faulty. The fan
won't be on at 55 degrees!!
Your battery was wrecked by that stupid fan. And when the battery
can't maintain proper voltage, the ECU is confused.
So reset it (pull a fuse if your car has one, or simply disconnect the
battery) then start the engine and let it idle for 10 minutes. Do not
press the gas pedal during this process.
But fix the sensor and replace the battery as soon as you can.

Re: 1991 Accord--tach goes to "0" when I turn lights or heat on
 

On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 23:08:30 -0600, Dan C
<youmustbejoking@lan.invalid> wrote:

>On Tue, 26 Feb 2008 04:37:02 +0000, jim_l wrote:
>
>> Any input is greatly appreciated.
>
>The ing thing is 17 years old. That's what happens with cars that
>old. Get rid of it, and get something newer. Duh.

My 91 Accord runs fine. Why get rid of something that gets me where I
want to go?

Re: 1991 Accord--tach goes to "0" when I turn lights or heat on
 

On Tue, 26 Feb 2008 07:51:43 -0500, dgk wrote:

>>The ing thing is 17 years old. That's what happens with cars that
>>old. Get rid of it, and get something newer. Duh.

> My 91 Accord runs fine. Why get rid of something that gets me where I
> want to go?

Because before very long, it will NOT get you where you want to go, and
you'll be stranded, probably at a most inconvenient time.

That's one reason.


--
"Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".

Re: 1991 Accord--tach goes to "0" when I turn lights or heat on
 

"Dan C" <youmustbejoking@lan.invalid> wrote
> Because before very long, it will NOT get you where you
> want to go, and
> you'll be stranded, probably at a most inconvenient time.
>
> That's one reason.

Do you work for a dealership?

How long have you been reading at this newsgroup?

Hondas need not be abandoned until the engine has given up
the ghost.

Re: 1991 Accord--tach goes to "0" when I turn lights or heat on
 

On Tue, 26 Feb 2008 07:32:40 -0700, Elle wrote:

>> Because before very long, it will NOT get you where you want to go, and
>> you'll be stranded, probably at a most inconvenient time.

> Do you work for a dealership?

No.

> How long have you been reading at this newsgroup?

A couple of years.

> Hondas need not be abandoned until the engine has given up the ghost.

Which is exactly what I'm talking about above.


--
"Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".

Re: 1991 Accord--tach goes to "0" when I turn lights or heat on
 

"Dan C" <youmustbejoking@lan.invalid> wrote
E
>> Hondas need not be abandoned until the engine has given
>> up the ghost.
>
> Which is exactly what I'm talking about above.

Some electrical part likely has given up the ghost.

Until the piston rings fail or similar, the engine is fine.

Re: 1991 Accord--tach goes to "0" when I turn lights or heat on
 

dgk wrote:

> On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 23:08:30 -0600, Dan C
> <youmustbejoking@lan.invalid> wrote:
>
>
>>On Tue, 26 Feb 2008 04:37:02 +0000, jim_l wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Any input is greatly appreciated.
>>
>>The ing thing is 17 years old. That's what happens with cars that
>>old. Get rid of it, and get something newer. Duh.
>
>
> My 91 Accord runs fine. Why get rid of something that gets me where I
> want to go?


Some people first resort to the "throw money at the problem" practice
than think rationally.

I drive two old Civics, (1982 'n '83) that have no 'puter, PCV valve,
oxygen sensor etc and get a minimum of 35mpg. Best of all, no payments
or high insurance costs.

I may not be stylin' but I've got more moolah in my wallet!

JT

Re: 1991 Accord--tach goes to "0" when I turn lights or heat on
 

Dan C wrote:

> On Tue, 26 Feb 2008 07:51:43 -0500, dgk wrote:
>
>
>>>The ing thing is 17 years old. That's what happens with cars that
>>>old. Get rid of it, and get something newer. Duh.
>
>
>
>>My 91 Accord runs fine. Why get rid of something that gets me where I
>>want to go?
>
>
> Because before very long, it will NOT get you where you want to go, and
> you'll be stranded, probably at a most inconvenient time.
>
> That's one reason.
>
>


<giggle>

With proper maintenance, Hondas (outside the rustbelt) can be made to
run practically forever.

Get a fricken' clue or do you like being a sheeple?

JT

Re: 1991 Accord--tach goes to "0" when I turn lights or heat on
 

Elle wrote:

> "Dan C" <youmustbejoking@lan.invalid> wrote
>
>>Because before very long, it will NOT get you where you
>>want to go, and
>>you'll be stranded, probably at a most inconvenient time.
>>
>>That's one reason.
>
>
> Do you work for a dealership?
>
> How long have you been reading at this newsgroup?
>
> Hondas need not be abandoned until the engine has given up
> the ghost.
>

....and even then, there are alternatives than high payments and plastic
cars...

JT

Re: 1991 Accord--tach goes to "0" when I turn lights or heat on
 

"Grumpy AuContraire" <Grumpy@ExtraGrumpyville.com> wrote
Elle
>> Hondas need not be abandoned until the engine has given
>> up the ghost.
>>
>
> ...and even then, there are alternatives than high
> payments and plastic cars...

Oops. I forgot that low mileage used Honda engines (shipped
from Japan) are available for under $900 in the U.S.

Re: 1991 Accord--tach goes to "0" when I turn lights or heat on
 

Today I went and warranteed the battery for a brand new one and put it in.
The car started right away with no problem. Idle still fluctuating (1200-
2000) and gradually made its way down to 850 rpms when it was at operating
temperature. After the initial start I took off the battery terminals and let
the car warm up on just the alternator to check if the alternator was bad.
When the car was warm and at a steady idle I tried turning it off,
reconnecting the battery and starting it again. Started fine and idled fine,
I disconnected battery again and tried turning on the lights and the car shut
off. Now, I reconnected the battery and started it again, this time when I
took off the terminals the car died instantly and the lights weren't even on.
The alternator is only a year old and I bought it new. Could the alternator
be shot already? And would the alernator cause the tach to drop to "0" while
the car is still running? I also put in the VSS that I had bought a few
weeks ago when the speedo was jumping and tach still dies when I turn the
lights on. Also, fyi, the check engine light didn't come on.

--
Message posted via CarKB.com
http://www.carkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx...-cars/200802/1

Re: 1991 Accord--tach goes to "0" when I turn lights or heat on
 

jim_l via CarKB.com wrote:
> Today I went and warranteed the battery for a brand new one and put it in.
> The car started right away with no problem. Idle still fluctuating (1200-
> 2000) and gradually made its way down to 850 rpms when it was at operating
> temperature. After the initial start I took off the battery terminals and let
> the car warm up on just the alternator to check if the alternator was bad.
> When the car was warm and at a steady idle I tried turning it off,
> reconnecting the battery and starting it again. Started fine and idled fine,
> I disconnected battery again and tried turning on the lights and the car shut
> off. Now, I reconnected the battery and started it again, this time when I
> took off the terminals the car died instantly and the lights weren't even on.
> The alternator is only a year old and I bought it new. Could the alternator
> be shot already? And would the alernator cause the tach to drop to "0" while
> the car is still running? I also put in the VSS that I had bought a few
> weeks ago when the speedo was jumping and tach still dies when I turn the
> lights on. Also, fyi, the check engine light didn't come on.

You need to take the car to a facility that can properly determine if
the alternator is working.

And find a mechanic that knows what he is doing.

Jeff

Re: 1991 Accord--tach goes to "0" when I turn lights or heat on
 

On 2/26/08 2:56 PM, in article 805344b9a8380@uwe, "jim_l via CarKB.com"
<u41648@uwe> wrote:

> Today I went and warranteed the battery for a brand new one and put it in.
> The car started right away with no problem. Idle still fluctuating (1200-
> 2000) and gradually made its way down to 850 rpms when it was at operating
> temperature. After the initial start I took off the battery terminals and let
> the car warm up on just the alternator to check if the alternator was bad.
> When the car was warm and at a steady idle I tried turning it off,
> reconnecting the battery and starting it again. Started fine and idled fine,
> I disconnected battery again and tried turning on the lights and the car shut
> off. Now, I reconnected the battery and started it again, this time when I
> took off the terminals the car died instantly and the lights weren't even on.
> The alternator is only a year old and I bought it new. Could the alternator
> be shot already? And would the alernator cause the tach to drop to "0" while
> the car is still running? I also put in the VSS that I had bought a few
> weeks ago when the speedo was jumping and tach still dies when I turn the
> lights on. Also, fyi, the check engine light didn't come on.

If this is an actual Honda alternator, it is pretty unusual to see a failure
this soon. If this is a Chinese rebuilt from AutoZone or the like, its a
surprise that it worked this long.

Re: 1991 Accord--tach goes to "0" when I turn lights or heat on
 

On Tue, 26 Feb 2008 09:39:17 -0700, Elle wrote:

>>> Hondas need not be abandoned until the engine has given
>>> up the ghost.

>> Which is exactly what I'm talking about above.

> Some electrical part likely has given up the ghost.

Wild conjecture on your part.

> Until the piston rings fail or similar, the engine is fine.

When you're walking down the shoulder of the road in a pouring rainstorm,
and your broke-down car is a mile behind you, how much difference does it
make if "some electrical part" has malfunctioned, or the goddam crankshaft
is broken? Either ing way you're walking down the shoulder of the
road, in the rain.


--
"Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".

Re: 1991 Accord--tach goes to "0" when I turn lights or heat on
 

On Tue, 26 Feb 2008 16:50:08 +0000, Grumpy AuContraire wrote:

> With proper maintenance, Hondas (outside the rustbelt) can be made to
> run practically forever.

As can any other car, if you're willing to do it.

> Get a fricken' clue or do you like being a sheeple?

I've got clues enough for the both of us, Gramps. What the is a
sheeple?


--
"Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".

Re: 1991 Accord--tach goes to "0" when I turn lights or heat on
 

On Tue, 26 Feb 2008 16:48:46 +0000, Grumpy AuContraire wrote:

> Some people first resort to the "throw money at the problem" practice
> than think rationally.

It's "irrational" to want to drive a car less than 20 years old? Is that
what you really think?

> I drive two old Civics, (1982 'n '83) that have no 'puter, PCV valve,
> oxygen sensor etc and get a minimum of 35mpg. Best of all, no payments
> or high insurance costs.

I don't care about MPG, or payments, or insurance. I can afford all of
them. I own 5 vehicles (one Honda which is an 07 Accord), and all are
less than 3 years old.

> I may not be stylin' but I've got more moolah in my wallet!

Are you sure? Wanna bet?


--
"Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".

Re: 1991 Accord--tach goes to "0" when I turn lights or heat on
 

On Feb 26, 3:56 pm, "jim_l via CarKB.com" <u41648@uwe> wrote:
> Today I went and warranteed the battery for a brand new one and put it in.
> The car started right away with no problem. Idle still fluctuating (1200-
> 2000) and gradually made its way down to 850 rpms when it was at operating
> temperature. After the initial start I took off the battery terminals and let
> the car warm up on just the alternator to check if the alternator was bad.
> When the car was warm and at a steady idle I tried turning it off,
> reconnecting the battery and starting it again. Started fine and idled fine,
> I disconnected battery again and tried turning on the lights and the car shut
> off. Now, I reconnected the battery and started it again, this time when I
> took off the terminals the car died instantly and the lights weren't even on.
> The alternator is only a year old and I bought it new. Could the alternator
> be shot already? And would the alernator cause the tach to drop to "0" while
> the car is still running? I also put in the VSS that I had bought a few
> weeks ago when the speedo was jumping and tach still dies when I turn the
> lights on. Also, fyi, the check engine light didn't come on.
>
> --
> Message posted via CarKB.comhttp://www.carkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/honda-cars/200802/1

oh no! you're not supposed to let the engine running on the alternator
to test it!!!

Re: 1991 Accord--tach goes to "0" when I turn lights or heat on
 

Dan C wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Feb 2008 16:48:46 +0000, Grumpy AuContraire wrote:
>
>> Some people first resort to the "throw money at the problem" practice
>> than think rationally.
>
> It's "irrational" to want to drive a car less than 20 years old? Is that
> what you really think?
>
What I think is irrational is for a guy who has no interest in fixing
cars to hang out in a newsgroup of people who do want to fix them.


>> I drive two old Civics, (1982 'n '83) that have no 'puter, PCV valve,
>> oxygen sensor etc and get a minimum of 35mpg. Best of all, no payments
>> or high insurance costs.
>
> I don't care about MPG, or payments, or insurance. I can afford all of
> them. I own 5 vehicles (one Honda which is an 07 Accord), and all are
> less than 3 years old.
>
>> I may not be stylin' but I've got more moolah in my wallet!
>
> Are you sure? Wanna bet?
>
>

Re: 1991 Accord--tach goes to "0" when I turn lights or heat on
 

On Tue, 26 Feb 2008 21:37:43 -0600, Dan C
<youmustbejoking@lan.invalid> wrote:

>On Tue, 26 Feb 2008 09:39:17 -0700, Elle wrote:
>
>>>> Hondas need not be abandoned until the engine has given
>>>> up the ghost.
>
>>> Which is exactly what I'm talking about above.
>
>> Some electrical part likely has given up the ghost.
>
>Wild conjecture on your part.
>
>> Until the piston rings fail or similar, the engine is fine.
>
>When you're walking down the shoulder of the road in a pouring rainstorm,
>and your broke-down car is a mile behind you, how much difference does it
>make if "some electrical part" has malfunctioned, or the goddam crankshaft
>is broken? Either ing way you're walking down the shoulder of the
>road, in the rain.

That's when the AAA comes in handy.

I bought my 91 Accord about nine years ago. It has never broken down
on the road, but once wouldn't start in a parking lot. That was
because of the master module that tends to fail around 100,000 miles.
My car now has 105,000 miles. That's very low for a Honda.

When I thought about buying a Fit two years in June of 2006, so many
people asked about my Accord that I finally decided to put around
$1500 into it (timing belt and so on) and just keep it for another few
years. By then the redesigned Fit will be out and I'll take another
look.

Re: 1991 Accord--tach goes to "0" when I turn lights or heat on
 

On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 06:52:53 -0500, Al wrote:

>>> Some people first resort to the "throw money at the problem" practice
>>> than think rationally.

>> It's "irrational" to want to drive a car less than 20 years old? Is that
>> what you really think?

> What I think is irrational is for a guy who has no interest in fixing
> cars to hang out in a newsgroup of people who do want to fix them.

"Fixing" isn't the only focus of this newsgroup. There are plenty of
other things to discuss, as well.


--
"Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".

Re: 1991 Accord--tach goes to "0" when I turn lights or heat on
 

"Dan C" <youmustbejoking@lan.invalid> wrote
>> Some electrical part likely has given up the ghost.
>
> Wild conjecture on your part.

You are an amateur who has barely studied the archives of
this newsgroup, barely worked on older Hondas.

No way are the symptoms evidence of a failed engine.

Re: 1991 Accord--tach goes to "0" when I turn lights or heat on
 

jim_l via CarKB.com wrote:
> Today I went and warranteed the battery for a brand new one and put it in.
> The car started right away with no problem. Idle still fluctuating (1200-
> 2000) and gradually made its way down to 850 rpms when it was at operating
> temperature. After the initial start I took off the battery terminals and let
> the car warm up on just the alternator to check if the alternator was bad.

-------------------------------

Never do that to ANY vehicle. It's right up there with "I unplugged my
hard drive and then plugged it back in with the computer running".

You've probably screwed up the alternator and possibly the ELD.

:-(

Re: 1991 Accord--tach goes to "0" when I turn lights or heat on
 

And would the alernator cause the tach to drop to "0" while
> the car is still running? I also put in the VSS that I had bought a few
> weeks ago when the speedo was jumping and tach still dies when I turn the
> lights on. Also, fyi, the check engine light didn't come on.
>
> --
> Message posted via CarKB.com
> http://www.carkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx...-cars/200802/1


Jim,

The tach is electric. No juice, no tach. Have the charging system checked.

G-Man

Re: 1991 Accord--tach goes to "0" when I turn lights or heat on
 

On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 09:17:58 -0700, Elle wrote:

>>> Some electrical part likely has given up the ghost.

>> Wild conjecture on your part.

> You are an amateur who has barely studied the archives of
> this newsgroup, barely worked on older Hondas.

More conjecture. You can't possibly know those things to be true.

> No way are the symptoms evidence of a failed engine.

I guess you didn't read my other post about how it doesn't matter what
exactly has failed, if you're stranded on the side of the road. You're
still stranded on the side of the road, and the *FACTS* are that this is
much more likely to happen with a car such as the one being discussed here.

Do you have anything else that you'd like explained to you?


--
"Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".

Re: 1991 Accord--tach goes to "0" when I turn lights or heat on
 

On 2/27/2008 8:33 PM Dan C spake these words of knowledge:

> On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 09:17:58 -0700, Elle wrote:
>
>>>> Some electrical part likely has given up the ghost.
>
>>> Wild conjecture on your part.
>
>> You are an amateur who has barely studied the archives of
>> this newsgroup, barely worked on older Hondas.
>
> More conjecture. You can't possibly know those things to be true.
>
>> No way are the symptoms evidence of a failed engine.
>
> I guess you didn't read my other post about how it doesn't matter what
> exactly has failed, if you're stranded on the side of the road. You're
> still stranded on the side of the road, and the *FACTS* are that this is
> much more likely to happen with a car such as the one being discussed here.
>
> Do you have anything else that you'd like explained to you?


Folks, I hate to have to say it, but this miniature-brained specimen
makes jim beam look wise, not to mention polite.

I recommend you quit feeding this particular troll.


RFT!!!
Dave Kelsen
--
It is flattering some men to endure them.