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1st service fo my 05 Accord
Hello folks;
I've purchased my 05 Accord LX-G 5 speed Manual 4 cyl on May 27th, 2005. It is coming up to 4 months now, I went to the dealership to book an appointment for it's 1st service, well the guy @ the counter recommended that I wait until I reach close to 8000km or 1 year before I get that 1st service done. This seems like a long time between oil changes even with the new advanced 5W20 that Honda puts in the engines now days. I looked at the maintenance schedule and it says for the "severe" service that every 8000km or 4 moths, the oil, filter should be changed along with the recommended servicing. Should I insist on having this service done or wait? I live in Northern Ontario and sooner then later we will have our 1st winter storm, I want to be ready for it. Besides, I am going on my annual hunting trip which requires me to travel 500km one way. Thank you for your advice; Rick |
Re: 1st service fo my 05 Accord
Skipper wrote:
> Hello folks; > > I've purchased my 05 Accord LX-G 5 speed Manual 4 cyl on May 27th, 2005. It > is coming up to 4 months now, I went to the dealership to book an > appointment for it's 1st service, well the guy @ the counter recommended > that I wait until I reach close to 8000km or 1 year before I get that 1st > service done. This seems like a long time between oil changes even with the > new advanced 5W20 that Honda puts in the engines now days. I looked at the > maintenance schedule and it says for the "severe" service that every 8000km > or 4 moths, the oil, filter should be changed along with the recommended > servicing. Should I insist on having this service done or wait? > > I live in Northern Ontario and sooner then later we will have our 1st winter > storm, I want to be ready for it. Besides, I am going on my annual hunting > trip which requires me to travel 500km one way. > > > Thank you for your advice; > > > Rick > > what does it say in the owners manual? |
Re: 1st service fo my 05 Accord
In article <oGqSe.43330$884.1119932@news20.bellglobal.com>,
"Skipper" <rickcyr@sympatico.ca> wrote: > I've purchased my 05 Accord LX-G What's an LX-G? |
Re: 1st service fo my 05 Accord
I read the manual and it does not specifically say anything about the 1st
service. Rick "jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message news:kKKdndbO0L7FpofeRVn-ug@speakeasy.net... > Skipper wrote: >> Hello folks; >> >> I've purchased my 05 Accord LX-G 5 speed Manual 4 cyl on May 27th, 2005. >> It is coming up to 4 months now, I went to the dealership to book an >> appointment for it's 1st service, well the guy @ the counter recommended >> that I wait until I reach close to 8000km or 1 year before I get that 1st >> service done. This seems like a long time between oil changes even with >> the new advanced 5W20 that Honda puts in the engines now days. I looked >> at the maintenance schedule and it says for the "severe" service that >> every 8000km or 4 moths, the oil, filter should be changed along with the >> recommended servicing. Should I insist on having this service done or >> wait? >> >> I live in Northern Ontario and sooner then later we will have our 1st >> winter storm, I want to be ready for it. Besides, I am going on my >> annual hunting trip which requires me to travel 500km one way. >> >> >> Thank you for your advice; >> >> >> Rick > what does it say in the owners manual? > |
Re: 1st service fo my 05 Accord
My mistake, my previous car was an 02 Civic DX-G (the G stood for a group
option package) , I presently own an 05 Accord LX. Rick "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message news:elmop-684E77.20271603092005@nntp2.usenetserver.com... > In article <oGqSe.43330$884.1119932@news20.bellglobal.com>, > "Skipper" <rickcyr@sympatico.ca> wrote: > >> I've purchased my 05 Accord LX-G > > What's an LX-G? > |
Re: 1st service fo my 05 Accord
Skipper wrote:
> I read the manual and it does not specifically say anything about the 1st > service. but it gives you the service schedule. that's all you need to worry about. > > > Rick > "jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message > news:kKKdndbO0L7FpofeRVn-ug@speakeasy.net... > >>Skipper wrote: >> >>>Hello folks; >>> >>>I've purchased my 05 Accord LX-G 5 speed Manual 4 cyl on May 27th, 2005. >>>It is coming up to 4 months now, I went to the dealership to book an >>>appointment for it's 1st service, well the guy @ the counter recommended >>>that I wait until I reach close to 8000km or 1 year before I get that 1st >>>service done. This seems like a long time between oil changes even with >>>the new advanced 5W20 that Honda puts in the engines now days. I looked >>>at the maintenance schedule and it says for the "severe" service that >>>every 8000km or 4 moths, the oil, filter should be changed along with the >>>recommended servicing. Should I insist on having this service done or >>>wait? >>> >>>I live in Northern Ontario and sooner then later we will have our 1st >>>winter storm, I want to be ready for it. Besides, I am going on my >>>annual hunting trip which requires me to travel 500km one way. >>> >>> >>>Thank you for your advice; >>> >>> >>>Rick >> >>what does it say in the owners manual? >> > > > |
Re: 1st service fo my 05 Accord
Rick
Ignore the "manual" mavens and get the service done. One year/8k km is just too long an interval unless you drive long distance trips almost exclusively. I have a 2005 Accord EX I purchased in early May and it just turned 4k miles. I'm changing the oil and filter done this week with the recommended 5W-20, but I'm using Mobil 1, which I use in all of my vehicles and have done so for over 20 years. My schedule is 4 months or 4000 miles, whichever comes first (it's always 4 months, though). I almost always do it myself to keep expenses reasonable, and I've not had any type of engine component failure - ever. Cheap insurance for the engine, better mileage, easier starts in cold weather, etc. doug "Skipper" <rickcyr@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:oGqSe.43330$884.1119932@news20.bellglobal.com ... > Hello folks; > > I've purchased my 05 Accord LX-G 5 speed Manual 4 cyl on May 27th, 2005. > It is coming up to 4 months now, I went to the dealership to book an > appointment for it's 1st service, well the guy @ the counter recommended > that I wait until I reach close to 8000km or 1 year before I get that 1st > service done. This seems like a long time between oil changes even with > the new advanced 5W20 that Honda puts in the engines now days. I looked > at the maintenance schedule and it says for the "severe" service that > every 8000km or 4 moths, the oil, filter should be changed along with the > recommended servicing. Should I insist on having this service done or > wait? > > I live in Northern Ontario and sooner then later we will have our 1st > winter storm, I want to be ready for it. Besides, I am going on my annual > hunting trip which requires me to travel 500km one way. > > > Thank you for your advice; > > > Rick > |
Re: 1st service fo my 05 Accord
doug wrote:
> Rick > > Ignore the "manual" mavens and get the service done. One year/8k km is just > too long an interval unless you drive long distance trips almost > exclusively. I have a 2005 Accord EX I purchased in early May and it just > turned 4k miles. I'm changing the oil and filter done this week with the > recommended 5W-20, but I'm using Mobil 1, which I use in all of my vehicles > and have done so for over 20 years. My schedule is 4 months or 4000 miles, > whichever comes first (it's always 4 months, though). I almost always do it > myself to keep expenses reasonable, and I've not had any type of engine > component failure - ever. Cheap insurance for the engine, better mileage, > easier starts in cold weather, etc. > > doug do you wait for tires to wear out or do you follow some gut feeling method for their change schedule as well? fact is, if you're following the manufacturer spec, and are using a decent oil with a decent additive package, there's nothing to worry about. especially not for first service. > > > "Skipper" <rickcyr@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > news:oGqSe.43330$884.1119932@news20.bellglobal.com ... > >>Hello folks; >> >>I've purchased my 05 Accord LX-G 5 speed Manual 4 cyl on May 27th, 2005. >>It is coming up to 4 months now, I went to the dealership to book an >>appointment for it's 1st service, well the guy @ the counter recommended >>that I wait until I reach close to 8000km or 1 year before I get that 1st >>service done. This seems like a long time between oil changes even with >>the new advanced 5W20 that Honda puts in the engines now days. I looked >>at the maintenance schedule and it says for the "severe" service that >>every 8000km or 4 moths, the oil, filter should be changed along with the >>recommended servicing. Should I insist on having this service done or >>wait? >> >>I live in Northern Ontario and sooner then later we will have our 1st >>winter storm, I want to be ready for it. Besides, I am going on my annual >>hunting trip which requires me to travel 500km one way. >> >> >>Thank you for your advice; >> >> >>Rick >> > > > |
Re: 1st service fo my 05 Accord
doug wrote:
> Rick > > Ignore the "manual" mavens and get the service done. One year/8k km is just > too long an interval unless you drive long distance trips almost > exclusively. I have a 2005 Accord EX I purchased in early May and it just > turned 4k miles. I'm changing the oil and filter done this week with the > recommended 5W-20, but I'm using Mobil 1, which I use in all of my vehicles > and have done so for over 20 years. My schedule is 4 months or 4000 miles, > whichever comes first (it's always 4 months, though). I almost always do it > myself to keep expenses reasonable, and I've not had any type of engine > component failure - ever. Cheap insurance for the engine, better mileage, > easier starts in cold weather, etc. > > doug It is a shame to waste Mobil-1 on 4 month/4,000 mile oil change intervals. You are discarding a lot of perfectly good motor oil way before it's time. If you are running a top grade synthetic like that there is no reason not to go the full 7,500 mile (V-6) or 10,000 mile (4) intervals Honda calls for in it's current vehicles. By using such an expensive oil you are already giving yourself a huge safety margin over the factory recommendations. In fact, there are plenty of good sub $2.00/quart motor oils on the market now which are completely up to the job. Oils, fuels and engines are all light-years better today than they were 20 years ago. John |
Re: 1st service fo my 05 Accord
The oils and engines are light years ahead but the people in this country
are to entwined in the past to understand that. If 3000 miles was good for my great grandpa then I should change it every week...... "John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:xIZSe.13925$QN4.3053@trnddc02... > doug wrote: >> Rick >> >> Ignore the "manual" mavens and get the service done. One year/8k km is >> just too long an interval unless you drive long distance trips almost >> exclusively. I have a 2005 Accord EX I purchased in early May and it just >> turned 4k miles. I'm changing the oil and filter done this week with the >> recommended 5W-20, but I'm using Mobil 1, which I use in all of my >> vehicles and have done so for over 20 years. My schedule is 4 months or >> 4000 miles, whichever comes first (it's always 4 months, though). I >> almost always do it myself to keep expenses reasonable, and I've not had >> any type of engine component failure - ever. Cheap insurance for the >> engine, better mileage, easier starts in cold weather, etc. >> >> doug > > > It is a shame to waste Mobil-1 on 4 month/4,000 mile oil change intervals. > You are discarding a lot of perfectly good motor oil way before it's time. > If you are running a top grade synthetic like that there is no reason not > to go the full 7,500 mile (V-6) or 10,000 mile (4) intervals Honda calls > for in it's current vehicles. By using such an expensive oil you are > already giving yourself a huge safety margin over the factory > recommendations. In fact, there are plenty of good sub $2.00/quart motor > oils on the market now which are completely up to the job. > > Oils, fuels and engines are all light-years better today than they were 20 > years ago. > > John > |
Re: 1st service fo my 05 Accord
Beware that on my manual, it says there is special breakin oil that
Honda initially uses, and warns you against replacing it early as it interferes with the breakin process. -MVL |
Re: 1st service fo my 05 Accord
<mvl_groups_user@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1125966260.449752.201380@g43g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com... > Beware that on my manual, it says there is special breakin oil that > Honda initially uses, and warns you against replacing it early as it > interferes with the breakin process. > > -MVL This is also for the '05 Accord? If so, could you tell me which page? When I purchased my Accord, the salesman recommended changing it within 4k miles. I asked him about the break-in oil and he didn't know anything about it. He called me the next day and said he spoke w/the service department who said there is no more breakin oil. Just additives in the initial oil. I skimmed the manual but did not *read* everything that carefully. Thanks, -Dave |
Re: 1st service fo my 05 Accord
Do you wait for your engine to sludge up or do you blindly follow the "Recommended" service intervals in your beloved manual? The fact is that a number of well regarded automobile manufacturers have experienced engine problems caused by the oil change interval given to their customers. You can believe it or not - I guess it comes down to whether you can accept a truth contrary to your opinion. Just check out the Toyota and Saab newsgroups. With very few exceptions, I believe that every car owner should use the extreme service recommendations as a guideline. More frequent oil changes won't damage an engine. It will hurt your wallet a little, but as I said, it's cheap insurance. "jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message news:5tSdnfFPrqxP8IfeRVn-hw@speakeasy.net... > doug wrote: >> Rick > > do you wait for tires to wear out or do you follow some gut feeling method > for their change schedule as well? fact is, if you're following the > manufacturer spec, and are using a decent oil with a decent additive > package, there's nothing to worry about. especially not for first > service. > >> >> >> "Skipper" <rickcyr@sympatico.ca> wrote in message >> news:oGqSe.43330$884.1119932@news20.bellglobal.com ... >> >>>Hello folks; >>> >>>I've purchased my 05 Accord LX-G 5 speed Manual 4 cyl on May 27th, 2005. >>>It is coming up to 4 months now, I went to the dealership to book an >>>appointment for it's 1st service, well the guy @ the counter recommended >>>that I wait until I reach close to 8000km or 1 year before I get that 1st >>>service done. This seems like a long time between oil changes even with >>>the new advanced 5W20 that Honda puts in the engines now days. I looked >>>at the maintenance schedule and it says for the "severe" service that >>>every 8000km or 4 moths, the oil, filter should be changed along with the >>>recommended servicing. Should I insist on having this service done or >>>wait? >>> >>>I live in Northern Ontario and sooner then later we will have our 1st >>>winter storm, I want to be ready for it. Besides, I am going on my >>>annual hunting trip which requires me to travel 500km one way. >>> >>> >>>Thank you for your advice; >>> >>> >>>Rick >>> >> >> >> > |
Re: 1st service fo my 05 Accord
Waste of good oil? Hardly. If you want to run oil - even Mobil 1 - for
10,000 miles in your engine, be my guest. Some day in the future, the dealership will welcome you with open arms. The demands of driving in most areas today, e.g., frequent starts, stop and go driving, combined with the higher level of design, machine tolerances and assembly of modern engines, require a much higher quality level for lubricants. You are correct that current dino-based oils are much better today than 20 years ago, but the demands placed upon them have significantly increased also. If you think that a sub $2.00 per quart oil is the best option for YOUR engine, it's your choice. doug "John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:xIZSe.13925$QN4.3053@trnddc02... > doug wrote: >> Rick >> >> Ignore the "manual" mavens and get the service done. One year/8k km is >> just too long an interval unless you drive long distance trips almost >> exclusively. I have a 2005 Accord EX I purchased in early May and it just >> turned 4k miles. I'm changing the oil and filter done this week with the >> recommended 5W-20, but I'm using Mobil 1, which I use in all of my >> vehicles and have done so for over 20 years. My schedule is 4 months or >> 4000 miles, whichever comes first (it's always 4 months, though). I >> almost always do it myself to keep expenses reasonable, and I've not had >> any type of engine component failure - ever. Cheap insurance for the >> engine, better mileage, easier starts in cold weather, etc. >> >> doug > > > It is a shame to waste Mobil-1 on 4 month/4,000 mile oil change intervals. > You are discarding a lot of perfectly good motor oil way before it's time. > If you are running a top grade synthetic like that there is no reason not > to go the full 7,500 mile (V-6) or 10,000 mile (4) intervals Honda calls > for in it's current vehicles. By using such an expensive oil you are > already giving yourself a huge safety margin over the factory > recommendations. In fact, there are plenty of good sub $2.00/quart motor > oils on the market now which are completely up to the job. > > Oils, fuels and engines are all light-years better today than they were 20 > years ago. > > John > |
Re: 1st service fo my 05 Accord
"Skipper" <rickcyr@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:oGqSe.43330$884.1119932@news20.bellglobal.com ... > Hello folks; <snipped for space> > Thank you for your advice; Rick, I have always changed my engine oil and filter at the 5000 km mark, regardless of what the owners manual or dealership says. I feel that it is a small price to pay for peace of mind. I also rotate my tires at the same time (one appointment and no wasted time). The fact that so many people have ignored is that you live in Northern Ontario, as far as I am concerned that is a real good reason for changing the oil more frequently than the manual recommends. I live in Halifax and I firmly believe that more is better when it comes to frequency of changes. Brian |
Re: 1st service fo my 05 Accord
"doug" <dougejNOSPAM@SPAMFREEhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9ISdnSrM-pnCrYLeRVn-uQ@comcast.com... > > Do you wait for your engine to sludge up or do you blindly follow the > "Recommended" service intervals in your beloved manual? The fact is that a > number of well regarded automobile manufacturers have experienced engine > problems caused by the oil change interval given to their customers. You > can believe it or not - I guess it comes down to whether you can accept a > truth contrary to your opinion. Just check out the Toyota and Saab > newsgroups. With very few exceptions, I believe that every car owner > should use the extreme service recommendations as a guideline. More > frequent oil changes won't damage an engine. It will hurt your wallet a > little, but as I said, it's cheap insurance. I change the cheap dino oil in my '01 V6 Accord every 7K to 7500 miles. I now have 134,000 miles on it and it starts up everytime and runs smooth. When should I expect this sludge problem to start? Keep in mind, my car isn't a Toyota or Saab. |
Re: 1st service fo my 05 Accord
"doug" <dougejNOSPAM@SPAMFREEhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9ISdnSrM-pnCrYLeRVn-uQ@comcast.com... > > Do you wait for your engine to sludge up or do you blindly follow the > "Recommended" service intervals in your beloved manual? The fact is that a > number of well regarded automobile manufacturers have experienced engine > problems caused by the oil change interval given to their customers. You > can believe it or not - I guess it comes down to whether you can accept a > truth contrary to your opinion. Just check out the Toyota and Saab > newsgroups. With very few exceptions, I believe that every car owner > should use the extreme service recommendations as a guideline. More > frequent oil changes won't damage an engine. It will hurt your wallet a > little, but as I said, it's cheap insurance. > For the horror stories and the photos to go with them, it's hard to beat TeGGer's collection: http://tegger.com/hondafaq/sludge/index.html Look what can happen in just 8700 miles! http://tegger.com/hondafaq/sludge/cleaning_sludge.html Mike |
Re: 1st service fo my 05 Accord
"Seth" <seth_lermanNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:sXITe.6498$cg.3222@news02.roc.ny... > "doug" <dougejNOSPAM@SPAMFREEhotmail.com> wrote in message > news:9ISdnSrM-pnCrYLeRVn-uQ@comcast.com... >> >> Do you wait for your engine to sludge up or do you blindly follow the >> "Recommended" service intervals in your beloved manual? The fact is that >> a number of well regarded automobile manufacturers have experienced >> engine problems caused by the oil change interval given to their >> customers. You can believe it or not - I guess it comes down to whether >> you can accept a truth contrary to your opinion. Just check out the >> Toyota and Saab newsgroups. With very few exceptions, I believe that >> every car owner should use the extreme service recommendations as a >> guideline. More frequent oil changes won't damage an engine. It will hurt >> your wallet a little, but as I said, it's cheap insurance. > > I change the cheap dino oil in my '01 V6 Accord every 7K to 7500 miles. I > now have 134,000 miles on it and it starts up everytime and runs smooth. > When should I expect this sludge problem to start? Keep in mind, my car > isn't a Toyota or Saab. > Mine came to roost around 210K or 220K miles on our '85 turbo Volvo. The crankcase is probably as clean as the rocker assy I can see through the oil filler (pretty nice, even if brown) but the grunge carried in the oil mist that circulated through the crankcase ventilation system plugged a 3/8 inch hose solid. I never thought about cleaning such a large hose, so it went unnoticed until I saw a large cloud of blue smoke following me down the freeway. At the next turnoff, about five miles later, I opened the hood to see everything on the driver's side coated with oil spewing from the dipstick tube. I had lost 3 quarts in 5 minutes. Tearing the ventilation system down later, I found the air/oil separator baffle box nearly plugged. It also weighed several ounces more than the new one because of the hardened sludge inside it. It was that experience that convinced me to change to synthetic in the Volvo in spite of the risk of leaks. The top guru on the alt.autos.volvo group reported engines running synthetic don't generate those oil mist deposits, so I took the chance. When it didn't leak I changed my daughter's Accord to synthetic. To each their own, but I'm a confirmed synthetic user now. Mike |
Re: 1st service fo my 05 Accord
doug wrote:
> Waste of good oil? Hardly. If you want to run oil - even Mobil 1 - for > 10,000 miles in your engine, be my guest. Some day in the future, the > dealership will welcome you with open arms. The demands of driving in most > areas today, e.g., frequent starts, stop and go driving, combined with the > higher level of design, machine tolerances and assembly of modern engines, > require a much higher quality level for lubricants. You are correct that > current dino-based oils are much better today than 20 years ago, but the > demands placed upon them have significantly increased also. If you think > that a sub $2.00 per quart oil is the best option for YOUR engine, it's your > choice. > > doug ok, so which one of you is going to present the technical rationale for this well researched decision of yours? i want numbers. > > > "John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message > news:xIZSe.13925$QN4.3053@trnddc02... > >>doug wrote: >> >>>Rick >>> >>>Ignore the "manual" mavens and get the service done. One year/8k km is >>>just too long an interval unless you drive long distance trips almost >>>exclusively. I have a 2005 Accord EX I purchased in early May and it just >>>turned 4k miles. I'm changing the oil and filter done this week with the >>>recommended 5W-20, but I'm using Mobil 1, which I use in all of my >>>vehicles and have done so for over 20 years. My schedule is 4 months or >>>4000 miles, whichever comes first (it's always 4 months, though). I >>>almost always do it myself to keep expenses reasonable, and I've not had >>>any type of engine component failure - ever. Cheap insurance for the >>>engine, better mileage, easier starts in cold weather, etc. >>> >>>doug >> >> >>It is a shame to waste Mobil-1 on 4 month/4,000 mile oil change intervals. >>You are discarding a lot of perfectly good motor oil way before it's time. >>If you are running a top grade synthetic like that there is no reason not >>to go the full 7,500 mile (V-6) or 10,000 mile (4) intervals Honda calls >>for in it's current vehicles. By using such an expensive oil you are >>already giving yourself a huge safety margin over the factory >>recommendations. In fact, there are plenty of good sub $2.00/quart motor >>oils on the market now which are completely up to the job. >> >>Oils, fuels and engines are all light-years better today than they were 20 >>years ago. >> >>John >> > > > |
Re: 1st service fo my 05 Accord
There is one in every group. I guess you're him.
"jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message news:PJCdnZ2dnZ1cA5DFnZ2dnYULgt6dnZ2dRVn-zZ2dnZ0@speakeasy.net... > doug wrote: >> Waste of good oil? Hardly. If you want to run oil - even Mobil 1 - for >> 10,000 miles in your engine, be my guest. Some day in the future, the >> dealership will welcome you with open arms. The demands of driving in >> most areas today, e.g., frequent starts, stop and go driving, combined >> with the higher level of design, machine tolerances and assembly of >> modern engines, require a much higher quality level for lubricants. You >> are correct that current dino-based oils are much better today than 20 >> years ago, but the demands placed upon them have significantly increased >> also. If you think that a sub $2.00 per quart oil is the best option for >> YOUR engine, it's your choice. >> >> doug > > ok, so which one of you is going to present the technical rationale for > this well researched decision of yours? i want numbers. > >> >> >> "John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message >> news:xIZSe.13925$QN4.3053@trnddc02... >> >>>doug wrote: >>> >>>>Rick >>>> >>>>Ignore the "manual" mavens and get the service done. One year/8k km is >>>>just too long an interval unless you drive long distance trips almost >>>>exclusively. I have a 2005 Accord EX I purchased in early May and it >>>>just turned 4k miles. I'm changing the oil and filter done this week >>>>with the recommended 5W-20, but I'm using Mobil 1, which I use in all of >>>>my vehicles and have done so for over 20 years. My schedule is 4 months >>>>or 4000 miles, whichever comes first (it's always 4 months, though). I >>>>almost always do it myself to keep expenses reasonable, and I've not had >>>>any type of engine component failure - ever. Cheap insurance for the >>>>engine, better mileage, easier starts in cold weather, etc. >>>> >>>>doug >>> >>> >>>It is a shame to waste Mobil-1 on 4 month/4,000 mile oil change >>>intervals. You are discarding a lot of perfectly good motor oil way >>>before it's time. If you are running a top grade synthetic like that >>>there is no reason not to go the full 7,500 mile (V-6) or 10,000 mile (4) >>>intervals Honda calls for in it's current vehicles. By using such an >>>expensive oil you are already giving yourself a huge safety margin over >>>the factory recommendations. In fact, there are plenty of good sub >>>$2.00/quart motor oils on the market now which are completely up to the >>>job. >>> >>>Oils, fuels and engines are all light-years better today than they were >>>20 years ago. >>> >>>John >>> >> >> >> > |
Re: 1st service fo my 05 Accord
doug wrote:
> There is one in every group. I guess you're him. eh? so next time you fly, is it going to be ok with you if the pilot doesn't bother to calculate the fuel load against the destination distance? how about the inspection crew only bothering to look for fatigue cracks when they "felt" it was time? alternatively, imagine you're the fleet manager for a large haulage company. how are you going to formulate your maintenance schedules? will your customers mind if you charge them extra because you "feel" you need to spend 3 times as much on lubes as your competitors? bottom line, there's some method to this madness. disregard is both expensive and stupid. > > "jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message > news:PJCdnZ2dnZ1cA5DFnZ2dnYULgt6dnZ2dRVn-zZ2dnZ0@speakeasy.net... > >>doug wrote: >> >>>Waste of good oil? Hardly. If you want to run oil - even Mobil 1 - for >>>10,000 miles in your engine, be my guest. Some day in the future, the >>>dealership will welcome you with open arms. The demands of driving in >>>most areas today, e.g., frequent starts, stop and go driving, combined >>>with the higher level of design, machine tolerances and assembly of >>>modern engines, require a much higher quality level for lubricants. You >>>are correct that current dino-based oils are much better today than 20 >>>years ago, but the demands placed upon them have significantly increased >>>also. If you think that a sub $2.00 per quart oil is the best option for >>>YOUR engine, it's your choice. >>> >>>doug >> >>ok, so which one of you is going to present the technical rationale for >>this well researched decision of yours? i want numbers. >> >> >>> >>>"John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message >>>news:xIZSe.13925$QN4.3053@trnddc02... >>> >>> >>>>doug wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>Rick >>>>> >>>>>Ignore the "manual" mavens and get the service done. One year/8k km is >>>>>just too long an interval unless you drive long distance trips almost >>>>>exclusively. I have a 2005 Accord EX I purchased in early May and it >>>>>just turned 4k miles. I'm changing the oil and filter done this week >>>>>with the recommended 5W-20, but I'm using Mobil 1, which I use in all of >>>>>my vehicles and have done so for over 20 years. My schedule is 4 months >>>>>or 4000 miles, whichever comes first (it's always 4 months, though). I >>>>>almost always do it myself to keep expenses reasonable, and I've not had >>>>>any type of engine component failure - ever. Cheap insurance for the >>>>>engine, better mileage, easier starts in cold weather, etc. >>>>> >>>>>doug >>>> >>>> >>>>It is a shame to waste Mobil-1 on 4 month/4,000 mile oil change >>>>intervals. You are discarding a lot of perfectly good motor oil way >>>>before it's time. If you are running a top grade synthetic like that >>>>there is no reason not to go the full 7,500 mile (V-6) or 10,000 mile (4) >>>>intervals Honda calls for in it's current vehicles. By using such an >>>>expensive oil you are already giving yourself a huge safety margin over >>>>the factory recommendations. In fact, there are plenty of good sub >>>>$2.00/quart motor oils on the market now which are completely up to the >>>>job. >>>> >>>>Oils, fuels and engines are all light-years better today than they were >>>>20 years ago. >>>> >>>>John >>>> >>> >>> >>> > > |
Re: 1st service fo my 05 Accord
"jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message news:5e2dnUxge9Cdpb3eRVn-qg@speakeasy.net... > doug wrote: >> There is one in every group. I guess you're him. > > eh? so next time you fly, is it going to be ok with you if the pilot > doesn't bother to calculate the fuel load against the destination > distance? how about the inspection crew only bothering to look for > fatigue cracks when they "felt" it was time? alternatively, imagine > you're the fleet manager for a large haulage company. how are you going > to formulate your maintenance schedules? will your customers mind if you > charge them extra because you "feel" you need to spend 3 times as much on > lubes as your competitors? Nope. Oil analysis. Did you manage to destroy M1 in 10k miles, Jim? Or did you just "feel" you did? |
Re: 1st service fo my 05 Accord
Steve Bigelow wrote:
> "jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message > news:5e2dnUxge9Cdpb3eRVn-qg@speakeasy.net... > >>doug wrote: >> >>>There is one in every group. I guess you're him. >> >>eh? so next time you fly, is it going to be ok with you if the pilot >>doesn't bother to calculate the fuel load against the destination >>distance? how about the inspection crew only bothering to look for >>fatigue cracks when they "felt" it was time? alternatively, imagine >>you're the fleet manager for a large haulage company. how are you going >>to formulate your maintenance schedules? will your customers mind if you >>charge them extra because you "feel" you need to spend 3 times as much on >>lubes as your competitors? > > > Nope. > Oil analysis. that's the way to answer the scheuling question. > > Did you manage to destroy M1 in 10k miles, Jim? > Or did you just "feel" you did? why are you asking me that question? i'm not the one defending 4k mobil 1 change schedule. |
Re: 1st service fo my 05 Accord
Thank you for proving my point with your inane diatribe. As I said, there's
one in every group. What you seem incapable of recognizing is that this is my maintenance schedule for my car. It has nothing to do with airplane pilots, inspection crews, or fleet managers. Admittedly, though, if they wanted to go beyond the minimum requirements for me, I'd be grateful. I presume that you wouldn't be. After all, why do anything beyond the minimum requirements if you don't have to? Gee, you might save $5 a year. As for customers being charged extra ??? WTF is that about? In my case, it costs me less to change the oil myself with Mobil 1 than it does to have it done by the dealer. So if it costs me $22 per change x 3 changes per year = $66 versus 2 changes x $31 per change = $62, I'd say that for an extra $4 annually, I'm getting a hell a deal! As an experienced mechanic, I find that to be an excellent trade off. Something you don't seem to understand. >>Did you manage to destroy M1 in 10k miles, Jim? >>Or did you just "feel" you did? (Courtesy of Steve Bigelow) Is he suggesting that you followed your own advice on extended oill change intervals. LOL "jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message news:5e2dnUxge9Cdpb3eRVn-qg@speakeasy.net... > doug wrote: >> There is one in every group. I guess you're him. > > eh? so next time you fly, is it going to be ok with you if the pilot > doesn't bother to calculate the fuel load against the destination > distance? how about the inspection crew only bothering to look for > fatigue cracks when they "felt" it was time? alternatively, imagine > you're the fleet manager for a large haulage company. how are you going > to formulate your maintenance schedules? will your customers mind if you > charge them extra because you "feel" you need to spend 3 times as much on > lubes as your competitors? > > bottom line, there's some method to this madness. disregard is both > expensive and stupid. > > >> >> "jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message >> news:PJCdnZ2dnZ1cA5DFnZ2dnYULgt6dnZ2dRVn-zZ2dnZ0@speakeasy.net... >> >>>doug wrote: >>> >>>>Waste of good oil? Hardly. If you want to run oil - even Mobil 1 - for >>>>10,000 miles in your engine, be my guest. Some day in the future, the >>>>dealership will welcome you with open arms. The demands of driving in >>>>most areas today, e.g., frequent starts, stop and go driving, combined >>>>with the higher level of design, machine tolerances and assembly of >>>>modern engines, require a much higher quality level for lubricants. You >>>>are correct that current dino-based oils are much better today than 20 >>>>years ago, but the demands placed upon them have significantly increased >>>>also. If you think that a sub $2.00 per quart oil is the best option for >>>>YOUR engine, it's your choice. >>>> >>>>doug >>> >>>ok, so which one of you is going to present the technical rationale for >>>this well researched decision of yours? i want numbers. >>> >>> >>>> >>>>"John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message >>>>news:xIZSe.13925$QN4.3053@trnddc02... >>>> >>>> >>>>>doug wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>Rick >>>>>> >>>>>>Ignore the "manual" mavens and get the service done. One year/8k km is >>>>>>just too long an interval unless you drive long distance trips almost >>>>>>exclusively. I have a 2005 Accord EX I purchased in early May and it >>>>>>just turned 4k miles. I'm changing the oil and filter done this week >>>>>>with the recommended 5W-20, but I'm using Mobil 1, which I use in all >>>>>>of my vehicles and have done so for over 20 years. My schedule is 4 >>>>>>months or 4000 miles, whichever comes first (it's always 4 months, >>>>>>though). I almost always do it myself to keep expenses reasonable, and >>>>>>I've not had any type of engine component failure - ever. Cheap >>>>>>insurance for the engine, better mileage, easier starts in cold >>>>>>weather, etc. >>>>>> >>>>>>doug >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>It is a shame to waste Mobil-1 on 4 month/4,000 mile oil change >>>>>intervals. You are discarding a lot of perfectly good motor oil way >>>>>before it's time. If you are running a top grade synthetic like that >>>>>there is no reason not to go the full 7,500 mile (V-6) or 10,000 mile >>>>>(4) intervals Honda calls for in it's current vehicles. By using such >>>>>an expensive oil you are already giving yourself a huge safety margin >>>>>over the factory recommendations. In fact, there are plenty of good >>>>>sub $2.00/quart motor oils on the market now which are completely up to >>>>>the job. >>>>> >>>>>Oils, fuels and engines are all light-years better today than they were >>>>>20 years ago. >>>>> >>>>>John >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >> >> > |
Re: 1st service fo my 05 Accord
On 9/8/2005 5:18 AM doug spake these words of knowledge:
> There is one in every group. I guess you're him. No, Doug. I'm him. Trust me. RFT!!! Dave Kelsen -- .... I have plenty of talent and vision. I just don't care. |
Re: 1st service fo my 05 Accord
Does the vehicle in question have an oil life monitor (OLM)? I ask
because my Ridgeline truck has one and the manual states that oil should be changed (and this is true of the factory fill as well) when the monitor falls between 15% and 0% oil life expectancy. For most owners of Ridgelines at least, this service due notice appears between 5,000 and 7,000 miles, depending on driving habits. The OLM is a better way to determine oil change interval than some arbitrary mileage/time factor such as 3000 miles/6 months - today's engines and oil packs are much better than that. Even though the OLM assumes dino oil is being used, if an extra margin of safety is required due to "severe" use, it is not necessary as before to do more frequent changes but rather use better oil such as your GRP III and GRP IV and synthetics. Chances are the oil interval will be extended as well as you can go right to the "0%" notice on the monitor, especially with synthetics. OLMs are very sophisticated and are not the idiot light mileage counters of old. Today's OLMs measure how we actually drive and bases it assumptions on our driving habits. It does so by recording many things such as temps and engine revolutions and places penalties on things like short trip, cold start driving. The software is matched to the particular engine in the car and this is very important. As far as the factory fill is concerned and when to change it, much depends on the oil you intend to use. Honda does not use some special factory oil. It is a Superflo formula made by ExxonMobil but it is super rich in moly. This moly additive, however, is not in the oil pack itself but rather is part of the factory assembly lube and when mixed with the oil provides an extra measure of safety during the critical break-in period, hence, they want to make sure this formula is in there for as long as possible. BTW, the old notion of removing engine ware particles is of no concern these days due to tight tolerances and improved filtering. This is true at least with the higher tech engines made by Honda. Now, if Honda knew for a fact you were to change out oil with something like Havoline dino or Redline synthetic (which are very rich in moly) you could probably change the factory fill sooner than recommended - but why do it? Let the monitor be your guide and follow the manual except only under the most severe driving conditions. Here is how I plan on doing it with my Ridgeline. I will change factory fill when the OLM hits 15% with a quality dino such as Havoline or maybe even a good blend like Mobil Clean 7500 or Motorcraft 5w20. I will use only the Filtech or Nippon made filters and NOT the Fram/Honeywell. My second oil change will be with the same oil and then a sample of that drain will be sent to Blackstone labs for analysis. This will tell me if my OCIs are timely and if the engine likes the oil I have chosen. If there is any problem noted, especially in the TBN, which indicates oil life depletion, I will switch to a good full synthetic and try that. I have to assume the Accord would also be well served with this kind of approach. MARTY |
Re: 1st service fo my 05 Accord
shortspark wrote:
> Does the vehicle in question have an oil life monitor (OLM)? I ask > because my Ridgeline truck has one and the manual states that oil should > be changed (and this is true of the factory fill as well) when the > monitor falls between 15% and 0% oil life expectancy. For most owners > of Ridgelines at least, this service due notice appears between 5,000 > and 7,000 miles, depending on driving habits. > > The OLM is a better way to determine oil change interval than some > arbitrary mileage/time factor such as 3000 miles/6 months - today's > engines and oil packs are much better than that. Even though the OLM > assumes dino oil is being used, if an extra margin of safety is required > due to "severe" use, it is not necessary as before to do more frequent > changes but rather use better oil such as your GRP III and GRP IV and > synthetics. Chances are the oil interval will be extended as well as > you can go right to the "0%" notice on the monitor, especially with > synthetics. > > OLMs are very sophisticated and are not the idiot light mileage counters > of old. Today's OLMs measure how we actually drive and bases it > assumptions on our driving habits. It does so by recording many things > such as temps and engine revolutions and places penalties on things like > short trip, cold start driving. The software is matched to the > particular engine in the car and this is very important. > > As far as the factory fill is concerned and when to change it, much > depends on the oil you intend to use. Honda does not use some special > factory oil. It is a Superflo formula made by ExxonMobil but it is > super rich in moly. This moly additive, however, is not in the oil pack > itself but rather is part of the factory assembly lube and when mixed > with the oil provides an extra measure of safety during the critical > break-in period, hence, they want to make sure this formula is in there > for as long as possible. BTW, the old notion of removing engine ware > particles is of no concern these days due to tight tolerances and > improved filtering. This is true at least with the higher tech engines > made by Honda. Now, if Honda knew for a fact you were to change out oil > with something like Havoline dino or Redline synthetic (which are very > rich in moly) you could probably change the factory fill sooner than > recommended - but why do it? Let the monitor be your guide and follow > the manual except only under the most severe driving conditions. > > Here is how I plan on doing it with my Ridgeline. I will change factory > fill when the OLM hits 15% with a quality dino such as Havoline or maybe > even a good blend like Mobil Clean 7500 or Motorcraft 5w20. i had an entirely negative experience using kotorcraft 5w30 in my civic. it made it sound rattly, so bad i was wondering if the engine was shot, and this was compounded by the oil seals leaking lke crazy. and i mean crazy. at stop lights, clouds of smoke were coming up out from under the hood where the main seal was leaking onto the exhaust. castrol gtx quieted up the engine so it sounds "normal" and the leak has subsided almost completely. doesn't drip on the driveway any more. neither may of be particular concern on your new vehicle, but any oil that behaves like that on an older engine does not bode well for your future. > I will use > only the Filtech or Nippon made filters and NOT the Fram/Honeywell. My > second oil change will be with the same oil and then a sample of that > drain will be sent to Blackstone labs for analysis. This will tell me > if my OCIs are timely and if the engine likes the oil I have chosen. If > there is any problem noted, especially in the TBN, which indicates oil > life depletion, I will switch to a good full synthetic and try that. I > have to assume the Accord would also be well served with this kind of > approach. > > MARTY > |
Re: 1st service fo my 05 Accord
I don't know anything about the Motorcraft 5w30 but I think it is an
entirely different pack than the 5w20. In fact, I do not believe the 5w30 is even a synthetic blend, but rather a plain dino oil. Used oil analysis reports maintained on the Bobistheoilguy.com site show the Motorcraft 5w20 to be a terrific engine lubricant. However, what you intimate is true in that different cars react differently to driving styles and type of oil used. That is why the $40 spent for a lab analysis of your used oil is money well spent. Of course in your case no report was necessary, the problem was obvious. In most cases it is not that noticeable. MARTY |
Re: 1st service fo my 05 Accord
shortspark wrote:
> I don't know anything about the Motorcraft 5w30 but I think it is an > entirely different pack than the 5w20. In fact, I do not believe the > 5w30 is even a synthetic blend, but rather a plain dino oil. well, when i looked at both bottles in the store, the "info" on the bottles was the same. besides, what exactly is "synthetic blend"? there's no recognized definition. other than being a great advertising tool of course. > Used oil > analysis reports maintained on the Bobistheoilguy.com site show the > Motorcraft 5w20 to be a terrific engine lubricant. really? i've just looked, but in the couple of minutes i spent poking about, i don't see it. please post a link so i can read that report too. > > However, what you intimate is true in that different cars react > differently to driving styles and type of oil used. That is why the $40 > spent for a lab analysis of your used oil is money well spent. Of > course in your case no report was necessary, the problem was obvious. > In most cases it is not that noticeable. > > MARTY > |
Re: 1st service fo my 05 Accord
Jim, I double checked the Virgin Oil analysis reports at BITOG site and
the 5w20 and the new 5w30 are indeed both synthetic blends. I don't think this was always the case however and the 5w30 you had such bad results from may have been the older, straight dino stock - it all depends when you bought it. Here is a quote from BITOG and the source is probably Ford but I'm not sure about that: "This new oil (5w20) has been designed to provide the durability, cleanliness, and fuel economy expected of a Motorcraft product. Tests show it outperforms our own SAE 5w30 Super Premium Motor Oil. This oil has been thoroughly evaluated by Ford. It has performed flawlessly in over 300 dynamometer durability tests and has undergone vehicle testing, reaching as high as 250,000 miles in some cases. This is an oil you can trust. This new oil truly "exceeds the need". Refer to Owners Manual to determine which vehicles should be serviced with 5w20. Refer to TSB 01-4-7 for a listing of older vehicles which should be serviced with this oil". Since then, it appears Motorcraft has introduced their 5w30 as a synthetic blend as well, however, a look at the Virgin Oil reports for both shows that they are a little different in their additive packs, most notably in factors such as zinc, iron and copper although moly content is nearly the same. Synthetic blends such as these and others from the Phillips stall (TropArtic 5w30 and Kendall) are hard to define, as you point out, since there is no exact measure as to how much dino and how much synthetic must be in the mix before it qualifies as a "blend". Mobil Clean 7500 is rumored to contain a third synthetic but Mobil always keeps their formulas close to the vest. I agree too that "blend" is a marketing tool but they are suppose to provide longer oil change intervals than straight dino which usually shows wear at, and should not exceed, about 5000 miles in normal driving conditions. Full synthetics are said to be able to go 10,000 miles so somewhere in between seems to make sense for the "blends". They are usually priced "in between" dino and full synthetic as well. If you go to the BIOTG site and click on the forums you will find many different forum links, including Virgin Oil Analysis and Used Oil Analysis as well as general lubrication and gasoline engine oil forums. Try doing a search of "Motorcraft 5w20" at any of these and there will be many threads listed where you can read reviews of analysis reports and general comments about the Motorcraft oil (there are even some in which it was used in Honda engines). You will find that, like any oil, some are good and some not so good but, along with Havoline straight dino 5w20, you will see that most of the oil geeks there consider it among the best. MARTY |
Re: 1st service fo my 05 Accord
In article <5945-432433CB-722@storefull-3137.bay.webtv.net>,
martyi@webtv.net (shortspark) wrote: > I agree too that "blend" is a marketing tool but they are suppose to > provide longer oil change intervals than straight dino which usually > shows wear at, and should not exceed, about 5000 miles in normal driving > conditions. Consider: ALL motor oil sold today is a synthetic blend. There is NO "straight dino oil" being sold for automotive use. ALL oils have (drum roll, please) synthetic compounds blended in--commonly known as the "additive package". So technically, every oil can advertise itself as a "synthetic blend". You've been owned. |
Re: 1st service fo my 05 Accord
shortspark wrote:
> Jim, I double checked the Virgin Oil analysis reports at BITOG site and > the 5w20 and the new 5w30 are indeed both synthetic blends. I don't > think this was always the case however and the 5w30 you had such bad > results from may have been the older, straight dino stock - it all > depends when you bought it. Here is a quote from BITOG and the source > is probably Ford but I'm not sure about that: mine was definitely "synthetic blend". i still have a bottle i'm going to throw into recycling. > > "This new oil (5w20) has been designed to provide the durability, > cleanliness, and fuel economy expected of a Motorcraft product. Tests > show it outperforms our own SAE 5w30 Super Premium Motor Oil. This oil > has been thoroughly evaluated by Ford. It has performed flawlessly in > over 300 dynamometer durability tests and has undergone vehicle testing, > reaching as high as 250,000 miles in some cases. This is an oil you can > trust. This new oil truly "exceeds the need". Refer to Owners Manual > to determine which vehicles should be serviced with 5w20. Refer to TSB > 01-4-7 for a listing of older vehicles which should be serviced with > this oil". the "TSB" makes it sound like ford propaganda to me! > > Since then, it appears Motorcraft has introduced their 5w30 as a > synthetic blend as well, however, a look at the Virgin Oil reports for > both shows that they are a little different in their additive packs, > most notably in factors such as zinc, iron and copper although moly > content is nearly the same. those are all fine solid state additives, but they do nothing for thixotropy [the property that affects grade with temperature - otherwise known as viscosity index improver] or seal conditioning. the thixotropy thing is very important because either insufficient quantity or quality can quickly break down leaving you with thin runny base that may not be able to sustain the right hydro-dynamic film engines depend on. [if i really wanted to be contrarian, i'd even ask why it's even worth bothering with solid state lubes, moly, etc., if the hydrodynamic film is being sufficiently sustained - but i'm not a tribologist.] and simply measuring viscosity alone is not necessarily the answer because it's usually measured at 100C whereas pistons & rings operate at higher temps than that, and that soot/combustion product can increase viscosity while decreasing lubricity. i think this was the situation i experienced - and the reason the engine sounded like it was about to fall apart - the oil film needs to be right because it keeps parts "floating" on oil, not directly touching. regarding seal conditioning, same thing, you need sufficient quantity & quality of the right organic conditioners to do the job. now, here's the rub regarding traditional oil analysis - it won't show you /any/ info on these organic additives!!! the relevant compounds for both those jobs are not metallics so they don't show on the spark spectrometry or acid/base reading! oil analysis is an /excellent/ tool for assessing wear product and therefore engine health, but from what i can see, without the ability to detect or quantify organic contents, it's next to useless as a measure of initial oil quality. > > Synthetic blends such as these and others from the Phillips stall > (TropArtic 5w30 and Kendall) are hard to define, as you point out, since > there is no exact measure as to how much dino and how much synthetic > must be in the mix before it qualifies as a "blend". Mobil Clean 7500 > is rumored to contain a third synthetic but Mobil always keeps their > formulas close to the vest. > > I agree too that "blend" is a marketing tool but they are suppose to > provide longer oil change intervals than straight dino which usually > shows wear at, and should not exceed, about 5000 miles in normal driving > conditions. Full synthetics are said to be able to go 10,000 miles so > somewhere in between seems to make sense for the "blends". They are > usually priced "in between" dino and full synthetic as well. when mobil 1 first came out, didn't they claim 30k between changes? to back away from that as mobil have done, it means that either 1. their initial claims were bogus 2. they're now scared of law suits 3. they've changed formulation, or 4. like everyone else, the bean counters are interested in sales volume, so forget the facts! > > If you go to the BIOTG site and click on the forums you will find many > different forum links, including Virgin Oil Analysis and Used Oil > Analysis as well as general lubrication and gasoline engine oil forums. > Try doing a search of "Motorcraft 5w20" at any of these and there will > be many threads listed where you can read reviews of analysis reports > and general comments about the Motorcraft oil (there are even some in > which it was used in Honda engines). You will find that, like any oil, > some are good and some not so good but, along with Havoline straight > dino 5w20, you will see that most of the oil geeks there consider it > among the best. > > MARTY > thanks marty! i may try havoline next time. but for the moment, i'm happy with castrol gtx. especially on the crude & unscientific basis of keeping my engine quiet & leak free! |
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