Re: 2001 Accord EX brake light on dash
 

Charlie S <chasa@rcn.com> wrote in message
news:lvjoe1pcbcjn2bgbgctmfqc846iudqi0m4@4ax.com...
> It's not a relay Contact in series with each Tail light bulb it's a
> relay COIL. A COIL has a voltage drop so I assume 9 volts on the wire
> between the relay and the bulb.
>
Not a valid assumption. The effective resistance of the lamp would be around 6
ohms for a 27W stop lamp. I'm sure they've made the relay to be around .5 ohm or
less, so the voltage at the lamp would be closer to 12v in a real-world 12.8 -
13.5 volt world. It'd be interesting if you could actually measure one of the
relays, and/or the voltage across it and/or the lamp(s) in your car.

> This is not new Honda has been doing this for over 10 years.
>
I believe it.

> I remember going in to Kragen's and being told that Honda has
> different Brake lights than other brands.
>
I believe this too, but I also believe whover told you that is/was full of it.

> 4 of the 5 Brake lights are dual filiment.
>
Immaterial. As I understand so far, the relays are in the brake lamp circuits.
Presence of a tail light or whatever in the same lamp envelope is of no concern.

> I have a '92 Accord wiring diagram in front of me and I can see the
> relays.
>
No doubt. Probably the other responders misunderstood the discussion so far.
Is there a part number for the relay on your car? Maybe I can find the specs.
Googling is good, but in this case I'm either not coming up with the correct
search parameters, or there's just too much stuff...

Re: 2001 Accord EX brake light on dash
 

Charlie S <chasa@rcn.com> wrote in message
news:lvjoe1pcbcjn2bgbgctmfqc846iudqi0m4@4ax.com...
> It's not a relay Contact in series with each Tail light bulb it's a
> relay COIL. A COIL has a voltage drop so I assume 9 volts on the wire
> between the relay and the bulb.
>
Not a valid assumption. The effective resistance of the lamp would be around 6
ohms for a 27W stop lamp. I'm sure they've made the relay to be around .5 ohm or
less, so the voltage at the lamp would be closer to 12v in a real-world 12.8 -
13.5 volt world. It'd be interesting if you could actually measure one of the
relays, and/or the voltage across it and/or the lamp(s) in your car.

> This is not new Honda has been doing this for over 10 years.
>
I believe it.

> I remember going in to Kragen's and being told that Honda has
> different Brake lights than other brands.
>
I believe this too, but I also believe whover told you that is/was full of it.

> 4 of the 5 Brake lights are dual filiment.
>
Immaterial. As I understand so far, the relays are in the brake lamp circuits.
Presence of a tail light or whatever in the same lamp envelope is of no concern.

> I have a '92 Accord wiring diagram in front of me and I can see the
> relays.
>
No doubt. Probably the other responders misunderstood the discussion so far.
Is there a part number for the relay on your car? Maybe I can find the specs.
Googling is good, but in this case I'm either not coming up with the correct
search parameters, or there's just too much stuff...

Re: 2001 Accord EX brake light on dash
 

Charlie S <chasa@rcn.com> wrote in message
news:lvjoe1pcbcjn2bgbgctmfqc846iudqi0m4@4ax.com...
> It's not a relay Contact in series with each Tail light bulb it's a
> relay COIL. A COIL has a voltage drop so I assume 9 volts on the wire
> between the relay and the bulb.
>
Not a valid assumption. The effective resistance of the lamp would be around 6
ohms for a 27W stop lamp. I'm sure they've made the relay to be around .5 ohm or
less, so the voltage at the lamp would be closer to 12v in a real-world 12.8 -
13.5 volt world. It'd be interesting if you could actually measure one of the
relays, and/or the voltage across it and/or the lamp(s) in your car.

> This is not new Honda has been doing this for over 10 years.
>
I believe it.

> I remember going in to Kragen's and being told that Honda has
> different Brake lights than other brands.
>
I believe this too, but I also believe whover told you that is/was full of it.

> 4 of the 5 Brake lights are dual filiment.
>
Immaterial. As I understand so far, the relays are in the brake lamp circuits.
Presence of a tail light or whatever in the same lamp envelope is of no concern.

> I have a '92 Accord wiring diagram in front of me and I can see the
> relays.
>
No doubt. Probably the other responders misunderstood the discussion so far.
Is there a part number for the relay on your car? Maybe I can find the specs.
Googling is good, but in this case I'm either not coming up with the correct
search parameters, or there's just too much stuff...

Re: 2001 Accord EX brake light on dash
 

Charlie S wrote:
> It's not a relay Contact in series with each Tail light bulb it's a
> relay COIL. A COIL has a voltage drop so I assume 9 volts on the wire
> between the relay and the bulb.

you /assume/ a coil has a voltage drop of 3V??? what's the resistance
of the coil in proportion to the bulb??? the math is real simple.

>
> This is not new Honda has been doing this for over 10 years.

dude, /no/ manufacturer puts a relay coil in series with a high wattage
bulb. period.

>
> I remember going in to Kragen's and being told that Honda has
> different Brake lights than other brands.

no. get the bulb number and cross reference it against all the other
applications - it's just a stock bulb used industry-wide.

>
> 4 of the 5 Brake lights are dual filiment.

so? it's called redundancy. it helps keep the car safe when neglectful
drivers fail to check to see if their bulbs are working properly.

>
> I have a '92 Accord wiring diagram in front of me and I can see the
> relays.

i have two different helm [honda factory] circuit diagrams in front of
me right now, and there are no relay coils in series with any light
bulbs. there must have some sort of problem with the drawings you have
if you think you're looking at relay coils.

>
>
> On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 07:26:28 GMT, "Doug McCrary"
> <DougMcCrary@spamcop.net> wrote:
>
>
>>Charlie S <chasa@rcn.com> wrote in message
>>news:14tle1dthbehe3fbo44j0a0sqqoiplhqk1@4ax.com. ..
>>
>>>Honda installs a relay in series with each Tail Light Bulb so the bulb
>>>sees less than 12 volts. I did not intend to say that you have to buy
>>>a bulb manufactured by Honda. A bulb intended for other than a Honda
>>>would fit, but not have the correct brightness.
>>>
>>
>>Not.
>>Spec'd lamps are standard. A 327 or whatever has a specified voltage, base
>>design, current rating, and output (candlepower) .
>>Honda can't change that unless they design their own lamp, with their own specs
>>(and number). I don't see where they have done that. If you have an example,
>>please post it.
>>
>>
>>>For other than a Honda tail light, if I had a burned out bulb I would
>>>look in a box in my garage for a bulb that looked the same and it
>>>would work.
>>>
>>>Cheers
>>>Charlie
>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: 2001 Accord EX brake light on dash
 

Charlie S wrote:
> It's not a relay Contact in series with each Tail light bulb it's a
> relay COIL. A COIL has a voltage drop so I assume 9 volts on the wire
> between the relay and the bulb.

you /assume/ a coil has a voltage drop of 3V??? what's the resistance
of the coil in proportion to the bulb??? the math is real simple.

>
> This is not new Honda has been doing this for over 10 years.

dude, /no/ manufacturer puts a relay coil in series with a high wattage
bulb. period.

>
> I remember going in to Kragen's and being told that Honda has
> different Brake lights than other brands.

no. get the bulb number and cross reference it against all the other
applications - it's just a stock bulb used industry-wide.

>
> 4 of the 5 Brake lights are dual filiment.

so? it's called redundancy. it helps keep the car safe when neglectful
drivers fail to check to see if their bulbs are working properly.

>
> I have a '92 Accord wiring diagram in front of me and I can see the
> relays.

i have two different helm [honda factory] circuit diagrams in front of
me right now, and there are no relay coils in series with any light
bulbs. there must have some sort of problem with the drawings you have
if you think you're looking at relay coils.

>
>
> On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 07:26:28 GMT, "Doug McCrary"
> <DougMcCrary@spamcop.net> wrote:
>
>
>>Charlie S <chasa@rcn.com> wrote in message
>>news:14tle1dthbehe3fbo44j0a0sqqoiplhqk1@4ax.com. ..
>>
>>>Honda installs a relay in series with each Tail Light Bulb so the bulb
>>>sees less than 12 volts. I did not intend to say that you have to buy
>>>a bulb manufactured by Honda. A bulb intended for other than a Honda
>>>would fit, but not have the correct brightness.
>>>
>>
>>Not.
>>Spec'd lamps are standard. A 327 or whatever has a specified voltage, base
>>design, current rating, and output (candlepower) .
>>Honda can't change that unless they design their own lamp, with their own specs
>>(and number). I don't see where they have done that. If you have an example,
>>please post it.
>>
>>
>>>For other than a Honda tail light, if I had a burned out bulb I would
>>>look in a box in my garage for a bulb that looked the same and it
>>>would work.
>>>
>>>Cheers
>>>Charlie
>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: 2001 Accord EX brake light on dash
 

Dude, I have the 90-93 Accord Haynes repair manual wiring diagram in front
of me and there is a device called a brake light sensor which uses what's
called a reed relay. There is a relay in series with each brake lamp, when
the lamp is on the current travelling through the relay pulls in a contact
which tells the monitor that the lamp is working. If the bulb is burned out
(open) then no current flows through the relay and the contact remains open,
indicating a brake lamp is out by the brake lamp on the dash.

"jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message
news:esWdnZG8kZOrcXHfRVn-qA@speakeasy.net...
> Charlie S wrote:
> > It's not a relay Contact in series with each Tail light bulb it's a
> > relay COIL. A COIL has a voltage drop so I assume 9 volts on the wire
> > between the relay and the bulb.
>
> you /assume/ a coil has a voltage drop of 3V??? what's the resistance
> of the coil in proportion to the bulb??? the math is real simple.
>
> >
> > This is not new Honda has been doing this for over 10 years.
>
> dude, /no/ manufacturer puts a relay coil in series with a high wattage
> bulb. period.
>
> >
> > I remember going in to Kragen's and being told that Honda has
> > different Brake lights than other brands.
>
> no. get the bulb number and cross reference it against all the other
> applications - it's just a stock bulb used industry-wide.
>
> >
> > 4 of the 5 Brake lights are dual filiment.
>
> so? it's called redundancy. it helps keep the car safe when neglectful
> drivers fail to check to see if their bulbs are working properly.
>
> >
> > I have a '92 Accord wiring diagram in front of me and I can see the
> > relays.
>
> i have two different helm [honda factory] circuit diagrams in front of
> me right now, and there are no relay coils in series with any light
> bulbs. there must have some sort of problem with the drawings you have
> if you think you're looking at relay coils.
>
> >
> >
> > On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 07:26:28 GMT, "Doug McCrary"
> > <DougMcCrary@spamcop.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Charlie S <chasa@rcn.com> wrote in message
> >>news:14tle1dthbehe3fbo44j0a0sqqoiplhqk1@4ax.com. ..
> >>
> >>>Honda installs a relay in series with each Tail Light Bulb so the bulb
> >>>sees less than 12 volts. I did not intend to say that you have to buy
> >>>a bulb manufactured by Honda. A bulb intended for other than a Honda
> >>>would fit, but not have the correct brightness.
> >>>
> >>
> >>Not.
> >>Spec'd lamps are standard. A 327 or whatever has a specified voltage,
base
> >>design, current rating, and output (candlepower) .
> >>Honda can't change that unless they design their own lamp, with their
own specs
> >>(and number). I don't see where they have done that. If you have an
example,
> >>please post it.
> >>
> >>
> >>>For other than a Honda tail light, if I had a burned out bulb I would
> >>>look in a box in my garage for a bulb that looked the same and it
> >>>would work.
> >>>
> >>>Cheers
> >>>Charlie
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
>

Re: 2001 Accord EX brake light on dash
 

Dude, I have the 90-93 Accord Haynes repair manual wiring diagram in front
of me and there is a device called a brake light sensor which uses what's
called a reed relay. There is a relay in series with each brake lamp, when
the lamp is on the current travelling through the relay pulls in a contact
which tells the monitor that the lamp is working. If the bulb is burned out
(open) then no current flows through the relay and the contact remains open,
indicating a brake lamp is out by the brake lamp on the dash.

"jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message
news:esWdnZG8kZOrcXHfRVn-qA@speakeasy.net...
> Charlie S wrote:
> > It's not a relay Contact in series with each Tail light bulb it's a
> > relay COIL. A COIL has a voltage drop so I assume 9 volts on the wire
> > between the relay and the bulb.
>
> you /assume/ a coil has a voltage drop of 3V??? what's the resistance
> of the coil in proportion to the bulb??? the math is real simple.
>
> >
> > This is not new Honda has been doing this for over 10 years.
>
> dude, /no/ manufacturer puts a relay coil in series with a high wattage
> bulb. period.
>
> >
> > I remember going in to Kragen's and being told that Honda has
> > different Brake lights than other brands.
>
> no. get the bulb number and cross reference it against all the other
> applications - it's just a stock bulb used industry-wide.
>
> >
> > 4 of the 5 Brake lights are dual filiment.
>
> so? it's called redundancy. it helps keep the car safe when neglectful
> drivers fail to check to see if their bulbs are working properly.
>
> >
> > I have a '92 Accord wiring diagram in front of me and I can see the
> > relays.
>
> i have two different helm [honda factory] circuit diagrams in front of
> me right now, and there are no relay coils in series with any light
> bulbs. there must have some sort of problem with the drawings you have
> if you think you're looking at relay coils.
>
> >
> >
> > On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 07:26:28 GMT, "Doug McCrary"
> > <DougMcCrary@spamcop.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Charlie S <chasa@rcn.com> wrote in message
> >>news:14tle1dthbehe3fbo44j0a0sqqoiplhqk1@4ax.com. ..
> >>
> >>>Honda installs a relay in series with each Tail Light Bulb so the bulb
> >>>sees less than 12 volts. I did not intend to say that you have to buy
> >>>a bulb manufactured by Honda. A bulb intended for other than a Honda
> >>>would fit, but not have the correct brightness.
> >>>
> >>
> >>Not.
> >>Spec'd lamps are standard. A 327 or whatever has a specified voltage,
base
> >>design, current rating, and output (candlepower) .
> >>Honda can't change that unless they design their own lamp, with their
own specs
> >>(and number). I don't see where they have done that. If you have an
example,
> >>please post it.
> >>
> >>
> >>>For other than a Honda tail light, if I had a burned out bulb I would
> >>>look in a box in my garage for a bulb that looked the same and it
> >>>would work.
> >>>
> >>>Cheers
> >>>Charlie
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
>

Re: 2001 Accord EX brake light on dash
 

jim beam wrote:
> i have two different helm [honda factory] circuit diagrams in front of
> me right now, and there are no relay coils in series with any light
> bulbs. there must have some sort of problem with the drawings you have
> if you think you're looking at relay coils.

doesnt the symbol for "light" look like a coil of wire in a bulb? mebbe
TE cheah has morphed?

Re: 2001 Accord EX brake light on dash
 

jim beam wrote:
> i have two different helm [honda factory] circuit diagrams in front of
> me right now, and there are no relay coils in series with any light
> bulbs. there must have some sort of problem with the drawings you have
> if you think you're looking at relay coils.

doesnt the symbol for "light" look like a coil of wire in a bulb? mebbe
TE cheah has morphed?

Re: 2001 Accord EX brake light on dash
 

Grahame wrote:
> Dude, I have the 90-93 Accord Haynes repair manual wiring diagram in front
> of me and there is a device called a brake light sensor which uses what's
> called a reed relay. There is a relay in series with each brake lamp, when
> the lamp is on the current travelling through the relay pulls in a contact
> which tells the monitor that the lamp is working. If the bulb is burned out
> (open) then no current flows through the relay and the contact remains open,
> indicating a brake lamp is out by the brake lamp on the dash.

and the bulb current is not conducted by the coil, it's conducted by the
reed. that's why there's no voltage drop.

>
> "jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message
> news:esWdnZG8kZOrcXHfRVn-qA@speakeasy.net...
>
>>Charlie S wrote:
>>
>>>It's not a relay Contact in series with each Tail light bulb it's a
>>>relay COIL. A COIL has a voltage drop so I assume 9 volts on the wire
>>>between the relay and the bulb.
>>
>>you /assume/ a coil has a voltage drop of 3V??? what's the resistance
>>of the coil in proportion to the bulb??? the math is real simple.
>>
>>
>>>This is not new Honda has been doing this for over 10 years.
>>
>>dude, /no/ manufacturer puts a relay coil in series with a high wattage
>>bulb. period.
>>
>>
>>>I remember going in to Kragen's and being told that Honda has
>>>different Brake lights than other brands.
>>
>>no. get the bulb number and cross reference it against all the other
>>applications - it's just a stock bulb used industry-wide.
>>
>>
>>>4 of the 5 Brake lights are dual filiment.
>>
>>so? it's called redundancy. it helps keep the car safe when neglectful
>>drivers fail to check to see if their bulbs are working properly.
>>
>>
>>>I have a '92 Accord wiring diagram in front of me and I can see the
>>>relays.
>>
>>i have two different helm [honda factory] circuit diagrams in front of
>>me right now, and there are no relay coils in series with any light
>>bulbs. there must have some sort of problem with the drawings you have
>>if you think you're looking at relay coils.
>>
>>
>>>
>>>On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 07:26:28 GMT, "Doug McCrary"
>>><DougMcCrary@spamcop.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Charlie S <chasa@rcn.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:14tle1dthbehe3fbo44j0a0sqqoiplhqk1@4ax.co m...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Honda installs a relay in series with each Tail Light Bulb so the bulb
>>>>>sees less than 12 volts. I did not intend to say that you have to buy
>>>>>a bulb manufactured by Honda. A bulb intended for other than a Honda
>>>>>would fit, but not have the correct brightness.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Not.
>>>>Spec'd lamps are standard. A 327 or whatever has a specified voltage,
>
> base
>
>>>>design, current rating, and output (candlepower) .
>>>>Honda can't change that unless they design their own lamp, with their
>
> own specs
>
>>>>(and number). I don't see where they have done that. If you have an
>
> example,
>
>>>>please post it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>For other than a Honda tail light, if I had a burned out bulb I would
>>>>>look in a box in my garage for a bulb that looked the same and it
>>>>>would work.
>>>>>
>>>>>Cheers
>>>>>Charlie
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>
>

Re: 2001 Accord EX brake light on dash
 

Grahame wrote:
> Dude, I have the 90-93 Accord Haynes repair manual wiring diagram in front
> of me and there is a device called a brake light sensor which uses what's
> called a reed relay. There is a relay in series with each brake lamp, when
> the lamp is on the current travelling through the relay pulls in a contact
> which tells the monitor that the lamp is working. If the bulb is burned out
> (open) then no current flows through the relay and the contact remains open,
> indicating a brake lamp is out by the brake lamp on the dash.

and the bulb current is not conducted by the coil, it's conducted by the
reed. that's why there's no voltage drop.

>
> "jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message
> news:esWdnZG8kZOrcXHfRVn-qA@speakeasy.net...
>
>>Charlie S wrote:
>>
>>>It's not a relay Contact in series with each Tail light bulb it's a
>>>relay COIL. A COIL has a voltage drop so I assume 9 volts on the wire
>>>between the relay and the bulb.
>>
>>you /assume/ a coil has a voltage drop of 3V??? what's the resistance
>>of the coil in proportion to the bulb??? the math is real simple.
>>
>>
>>>This is not new Honda has been doing this for over 10 years.
>>
>>dude, /no/ manufacturer puts a relay coil in series with a high wattage
>>bulb. period.
>>
>>
>>>I remember going in to Kragen's and being told that Honda has
>>>different Brake lights than other brands.
>>
>>no. get the bulb number and cross reference it against all the other
>>applications - it's just a stock bulb used industry-wide.
>>
>>
>>>4 of the 5 Brake lights are dual filiment.
>>
>>so? it's called redundancy. it helps keep the car safe when neglectful
>>drivers fail to check to see if their bulbs are working properly.
>>
>>
>>>I have a '92 Accord wiring diagram in front of me and I can see the
>>>relays.
>>
>>i have two different helm [honda factory] circuit diagrams in front of
>>me right now, and there are no relay coils in series with any light
>>bulbs. there must have some sort of problem with the drawings you have
>>if you think you're looking at relay coils.
>>
>>
>>>
>>>On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 07:26:28 GMT, "Doug McCrary"
>>><DougMcCrary@spamcop.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Charlie S <chasa@rcn.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:14tle1dthbehe3fbo44j0a0sqqoiplhqk1@4ax.co m...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Honda installs a relay in series with each Tail Light Bulb so the bulb
>>>>>sees less than 12 volts. I did not intend to say that you have to buy
>>>>>a bulb manufactured by Honda. A bulb intended for other than a Honda
>>>>>would fit, but not have the correct brightness.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Not.
>>>>Spec'd lamps are standard. A 327 or whatever has a specified voltage,
>
> base
>
>>>>design, current rating, and output (candlepower) .
>>>>Honda can't change that unless they design their own lamp, with their
>
> own specs
>
>>>>(and number). I don't see where they have done that. If you have an
>
> example,
>
>>>>please post it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>For other than a Honda tail light, if I had a burned out bulb I would
>>>>>look in a box in my garage for a bulb that looked the same and it
>>>>>would work.
>>>>>
>>>>>Cheers
>>>>>Charlie
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>
>

Re: 2001 Accord EX brake light on dash
 

I had the same problem .The brake light on the dash stayed lit.There are
2 coils in
the bulb. One coil of the rear brake light bulb had blown.I replaced the
bulb with the correct voltage bulb ,but it did not work.I went to Honda
dealer and they put in the correct bulb,at minimum cost-$2.00

c'mon city-SCAY-Jeff

Re: 2001 Accord EX brake light on dash
 

I had the same problem .The brake light on the dash stayed lit.There are
2 coils in
the bulb. One coil of the rear brake light bulb had blown.I replaced the
bulb with the correct voltage bulb ,but it did not work.I went to Honda
dealer and they put in the correct bulb,at minimum cost-$2.00

c'mon city-SCAY-Jeff