Re: 2001 Prelude has always burned oil--dealer says new engine needed!!??
> Any Europeans or Australians out there? Please post your owner's manual > recommendations! > FWIW, my 92 Accord, built in Ohio, presumably for a North American > market, specifies 5w or 10W-30 for ALL temperatures. Found a recent BITOG thread regarding the Mazda 3. US Spec is 5W-20, but a fellow from Kuwait says his manual calls for 15W-40, also listing 20w-50 as an acceptable substitute. |
Re: 2001 Prelude has always burned oil--dealer says new engine needed!!??
Tegger wrote:
> Leftie <No@Thanks.net> wrote in > news:aIPJl.119192$%k2.115591@newsfe07.iad: > >> Greg Campbell wrote: >>> Tegger wrote: >>> >>>> 15W-50 was not good choice. You surely suffered at least oil pump >>>> damage and bearing damage if not ring damage as well using that >>>> stuff. >>> Why on earth do you say that? What supposed mechanism will cause oil >>> pump damage? I can almost believe the rings suffering due to >>> decreased oil flow, but have a hard time believing that a 50wt oil (a >>> comparatively wimpy 50wt at that.) will cause such severe starvation >>> as to 'break' the them. M1's 15w-50 has tons of zinc, moly, and >>> boron based anti-wear additives. Even IF oil delivery to the rings >>> was reduced (by how much, 20~30%?) I don't think it could kill the >>> engine in such a short time. I can't see any mechanism by which the >>> plain crank bearings would be damaged. >>> >>> Europeans and those crazy Aussies routinely run xW-40 and xW-50wt >>> oils in the very same engines that are spec'd for 10W30 in North >>> America. >>> >>> Consider what happens every time you start your car on a cold >>> morning. Until the engine is up to operating temp, the cold oil >>> circulating and lubricating is vastly thicker than any hot 50wt. If >>> thick-ish oil caused bearing damage, we'd all destroy our cars in >>> short order. >>> >>> IMO. >>> >> Tegger is normally a pretty reliable source of info, but >> apparently >> I pushed some sort of "button" with this. He snipped the parts of my >> post that directly contradict what he concluded, > > > > > > Au contraire. I snipped everything BUT the apparently contradictory > part. And I even /joined together/ two parts of the contradictory > information that were originally spaced apart by other text, just so > people could see what I was replying to. > Go read my last reply again. I did, and it doesn't make sense. I noted that the engine stopped burning oil, and was still fine ten years later, and this made you conclude that I had "broke" it ten years earlier. > > > > >> and since he hasn't >> said otherwise, I'm going to assume that his "research" on the effects >> of viscosity changes was done on cars that weren't burning oil to >> start with. > > > > > True. I've had absolutely no success getting oil-burning cars to quit > burning oil. Oil going /elsewhere/ is another story, but oil getting > sucked /past the rings/ (which is what "burning" usually is) is pretty > much a done deal and time for a ring job. > > It's highly unlikely and hard to believe that your rings somehow got > "fixed" because you fed the engine different oil. It's easier to believe > that a leak of some kind got fixed as a byproduct of some other > servicing. You did imply later on that the car did have a "leakdown" of > oil that persisted until you sold the car. You aren't familiar with Honda engines leaking oil past the valve seals when they get old and sit unused for a few days? Seriously? The fact remains - and it is a fact - the car stopped burning oil with no repairs just new plugs and O2 sensor, and 10W-30 weight synthetic. > > > > >> The final irony is that after saying that viscosity >> doesn't have any effect on oil consumption, > > > > > No, I said *I* was unable to find any difference at all in consumption > between the grades I tried. Not the same thing. You are telling me that I'm wrong about the viscosity making a difference, so yes you *are* saying that the viscosity didn't matter. > > > > >> he accused me of >> "breaking" my engine just by using 15W-50! I guess he thinks that >> Castrol GTX 20W-50 was sent by Satan to prepare the earth for the >> Apocalypse. ;-) > > > > To address Greg Campbell, I made an (unsuccessful) attempt at finding > any European Honda Owner's Manuals online in order to determine exactly > what Europeans are supposed to use in their engines. I did, however, > locate such information at www.castrol.co.uk . > > Prior to model-year 2000, 15W-50 is the highest "alternate" viscosity > grade Castrol specifies (meant for /very/ hot climates, ~100F), but > their "recommended" viscosity for all pre-'00 cars is 10W-40. I think you're losing track of what I wrote. I was using Mobil One synthetic 15W-50 in the Honda engine. I simply *made a joke* about Castrol 20W-50. Your response suggests, however, that my using 15W-50 for Summer use (which is when I used it) was not a problem. > > AFTER 2000, Castrol no longer specifies any alternate viscosity higher > than 10W-40, and their "recommended" viscosity goes down to 0W-30. > > A higher viscosity is harder for the oil pump to pick up, and harder to > squeeze through the filter. This is especially true when cold. This > means it takes "just a bit longer" for pressure to build in the > bearings, and "just a bit longer" for the rings and camshafts to receive > fresh oil. > All that "just a bit longer" means just that much more wear on each cold > start, and just that much shorter life for your engine's internals. No > "apocalypse", just shortened life. So I should feel robbed because I only got 23 years and 146k miles from my original engine? The one that was still running strong months after I sold it? Really? > > > >> >> Just to be clear, it's been my experience that older engines that >> are using oil will often use less or even none if you switch them from >> 0W or 5W lower weight oil to 10W-30. I make no other claim. > > > > And I make no other claim than that it is a bad idea to do other than > what Honda says to do for your engine. > > You trusted them with +$20K of your money, evidently because you trusted > them to give you a finely-designed and built machine, but you won't > trust them to know what's best for that fine machine. > > You've apparently confused my 1986 Civic Si with a new one. I paid about $12k, with A/C. Get a grip, man. BTW, the dealer usually used my oil for oil changes - the Mobil One 15W-50. They didn't make any silly claims about it "breaking my engine." |
Re: 2001 Prelude has always burned oil--dealer says new engine needed!!??
Greg Campbell wrote:
(...) I wrote: >>> Just to be clear, it's been my experience that older engines that are >>> using oil will often use less or even none if you switch them from >>> 0W or 5W lower weight oil to 10W-30. I make no other claim. > > This, I'm curious about. At operating temp, there is not necessarily > any difference between a 0w-30 and a 10w-30. The 10W-X oils are, on > average, a hair thicker, but that's not guaranteed. If operating visc. > is similar, oil blow-by, etc. should also be similar. (?) I suspect that it's just that marginal extra viscosity - a bit more than marginal as the engine warms up from cold - that makes the difference. I seem to recall that most normal (not related to actual damage) oil burning occurs at or near startup, so maybe it's just a case of cutting the oil consumption for the few minutes when it's highest. I don't know. BTW, I didn't use the 15W-50 in Winter. (...) |
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