Re: 2006 Civic Si pricing scheme
 

"impaid" <xyz@qqq.com> wrote in message
news:XoGdnVxdtJXkDjHenZ2dnUVZ_tWdnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
> Nice little car and I like it better than the 2006 Acura RSX Type S. I'm
> ready to buy the Si but local dealer wanted $5,000 above invoice at first
> and he came down to $2,000 above invoice after going back and forth for an
> hour. No thank! With a few clicks on the computer keyboard, an internet
> manager quoted me below invoice - much better deal. Why would anyone pay
> $3,000 or more over invoice if he could get it under with just a little
> shopping around? What's the best price you've seen on the 2006 Si so far?
>
>

Our local dealer does not have any. Expects to receive one in late Jan, but
it is already sold. I have seen a couple for sale on Ebay for well over
MSRP. In one case the price is around 28k.

2006 Civic Si pricing scheme
 

Nice little car and I like it better than the 2006 Acura RSX Type S. I'm
ready to buy the Si but local dealer wanted $5,000 above invoice at first
and he came down to $2,000 above invoice after going back and forth for an
hour. No thank! With a few clicks on the computer keyboard, an internet
manager quoted me below invoice - much better deal. Why would anyone pay
$3,000 or more over invoice if he could get it under with just a little
shopping around? What's the best price you've seen on the 2006 Si so far?

Re: 2006 Civic Si pricing scheme
 

I don't understand why anyone would want to pay so much for such an ugly
car...

"TWW" <twaugh5@cox.net> wrote in message
news:Y81rf.8729$Ou3.5365@dukeread09...
>
> "impaid" <xyz@qqq.com> wrote in message
> news:XoGdnVxdtJXkDjHenZ2dnUVZ_tWdnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>> Nice little car and I like it better than the 2006 Acura RSX Type S. I'm
>> ready to buy the Si but local dealer wanted $5,000 above invoice at first
>> and he came down to $2,000 above invoice after going back and forth for
>> an
>> hour. No thank! With a few clicks on the computer keyboard, an internet
>> manager quoted me below invoice - much better deal. Why would anyone pay
>> $3,000 or more over invoice if he could get it under with just a little
>> shopping around? What's the best price you've seen on the 2006 Si so far?
>>
>>
>
> Our local dealer does not have any. Expects to receive one in late Jan,
> but
> it is already sold. I have seen a couple for sale on Ebay for well over
> MSRP. In one case the price is around 28k.
>
>

Re: 2006 Civic Si pricing scheme
 

James wrote:

> I don't understand why anyone would want to pay so much for such an ugly
> car...
>

Yeah, it's surprising to see so many Crapsler 300's out there. :-)

Re: 2006 Civic Si pricing scheme
 

I am glad someone finally said it... Yeah, it's surprising to see so
many Crapsler 300's out there. :-)

It is a car that wants to be an El Camino or maybe a Dodge Ram when it
grows up. Or maybe it is was modeled after a really ugly woman with a
mustache.

Re: 2006 Civic Si pricing scheme
 

I would love to know where you got quoted for around the invoice price.
I haggled a local dealer down to $23,500 - $1200 trade in (95 civic ex)
but I balked at that. I was willing to pay $21K-$1000 for a sticker
MSRP of $20,500

Re: 2006 Civic Si pricing scheme
 

I would love to know where you got quoted for around the invoice price.
I haggled a local dealer down to $23,500 - $1200 trade in (95 civic ex)
but I balked at that. I was willing to pay $21K-$1000 for a sticker
MSRP of $20,500. Think I will go out and buy a RSX Type S

Re: 2006 Civic Si pricing scheme
 

I think you'll just have to be patient and wait for about six months or
so. By that time... there should be plenty around... and those shiester
dealers won't be able to command that markup any more.

Professor
www.telstar-electronics.com

Re: 2006 Civic Si pricing scheme
 

"impaid" <xyz@qqq.com> wrote in message
news:XoGdnVxdtJXkDjHenZ2dnUVZ_tWdnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
> Nice little car and I like it better than the 2006 Acura RSX Type S. I'm
> ready to buy the Si but local dealer wanted $5,000 above invoice at first
> and he came down to $2,000 above invoice after going back and forth for an
> hour. No thank! With a few clicks on the computer keyboard, an internet
> manager quoted me below invoice - much better deal. Why would anyone pay
> $3,000 or more over invoice if he could get it under with just a little
> shopping around? What's the best price you've seen on the 2006 Si so far?

unfortunitely it's supply and demand, lots of people want the SI and there
are few of them around, not trying (by any means) to defend a dealer, but if
you have 1 HOT car on the lot that everyone wants, why are you going to sell
it for less than sticker, they are going ot try and get as much as possible
for it. I'm sure the 5,000 above MSRP you were quoted was the dealer seeing
dollar signs, and him "comming down" to 2,000 over MSRP is him "giving you a
deal" (the old, hey, I like your face, tell you what I'll do, I'll come down
3,000 form my price, but thats the best I can do) and if you walk out, he'll
sell it to someone else. espically if he's getting multiple calls on this
car, and they have 1 with another not comming in for a while.

Re: 2006 Civic Si pricing scheme
 

In article <1136814837.880054.9630@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.c om>,
"Professor" <briangriffey@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> I think you'll just have to be patient and wait for about six months or
> so. By that time... there should be plenty around... and those shiester
> dealers won't be able to command that markup any more.

Why are they shyster dealers if they're just charging what the market
will bear?

Just because YOU can't or won't afford it, doesn't make the seller a
shyster.

Re: 2006 Civic Si pricing scheme
 

Sorry for topposting... but I think it is a given that car dealers are
shysters period, so what is your problem with the comment?

The fact of the matter is that when a car dealer attempts to sell me a
car for 5k over invoice, and is calling it a deal, that is a little
shady. having said that, I called the dealer back the next day, and it
was gone for sticker price

Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article <1136814837.880054.9630@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.c om>,
> "Professor" <briangriffey@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> > I think you'll just have to be patient and wait for about six months or
> > so. By that time... there should be plenty around... and those shiester
> > dealers won't be able to command that markup any more.
>
> Why are they shyster dealers if they're just charging what the market
> will bear?
>
> Just because YOU can't or won't afford it, doesn't make the seller a
> shyster.

Re: 2006 Civic Si pricing scheme
 

On 10 Jan 2006 08:22:02 -0800, volwrath@gmail.com wrote:

>Sorry for topposting... but I think it is a given that car dealers are
>shysters period, so what is your problem with the comment?
>
>The fact of the matter is that when a car dealer attempts to sell me a
>car for 5k over invoice, and is calling it a deal, that is a little
>shady. having said that, I called the dealer back the next day, and it
>was gone for sticker price


Agreed..........

just because we exist in a free market society does not mean that
whatever you charge is fair and reasonable just because the market
will bear it or someone is willing to pay.

I generally have a "low" opinion of car dealers / car salespeople
anyway.

We always have the ability to walk away from the deal but that in no
way justifies the actions of the seller.

Car sales people in general are "slime-balls" I've never trusted any
of them!

Sure the dealers set their own prices..... I for one would never do
business with a dealer who tried to charge such a mark-up.

I can't think of anything offhand that so much BS is involved in when
you go to buy it, as it is with buying a vehicle.

The question is..... not if you were screwed at the dealer but how bad
was it!
---
elbert.clarke@**adelphia.net
remove ** to email

Re: 2006 Civic Si pricing scheme
 

In article <1136910122.097955.306920@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups .com>,
volwrath@gmail.com wrote:

> Sorry for topposting... but I think it is a given that car dealers are
> shysters period, so what is your problem with the comment?

They're not shysters, period....some salesmen are, but many are not.

The fact that it's up to YOU to determine whether he's a shyster or not
is what bugs you, I think. You want not to have to work at it. You
want it handed to you in a "fair" manner ("fair" being what YOU think is
fair).

Re: 2006 Civic Si pricing scheme
 

In article <1136910122.097955.306920@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups .com>,
volwrath@gmail.com wrote:

> The fact of the matter is that when a car dealer attempts to sell me a
> car for 5k over invoice, and is calling it a deal, that is a little
> shady.

If he can get $6K over invoice for every car for the next month or two,
then yes--giving it to you for $5K over invoice is a deal.

And what's with your focus in invoice price? You have this number in
your head as a holy grail, as if it means something. Guess what? It
doesn't. It's a fake number that has nothing to do with what the dealer
paid for the car. Anymore, it's a number designed to satisfy people
like you in some fashion, people who think they have to know what the
dealer paid for the car and go from there--people who think that somehow
that's the only "fair" way to do things.

So now, the actual dealer price is hidden so well you'll never know it
or see it. The "invoice" price is what the magician shows you in one
hand while he's busy hiding things with the other hand.

Meanwhile, you walk into a department store and happily buy a shirt
without knowing what the store paid for it. So who's ripping you off
now?

Re: 2006 Civic Si pricing scheme
 

In article <16t8s1llplh3f3f1ji3pmp0955503jetrc@4ax.com>,
Elbert <elbert.clarke@**adelphia.net> wrote:

> just because we exist in a free market society does not mean that
> whatever you charge is fair and reasonable just because the market
> will bear it or someone is willing to pay.

Pray tell, why not?

Sure, it's not reasonable to YOU because YOU don't want to pay that.
But if they have 12 cars to sell and 15 people wanting those cars at $5K
over invoice, what's your beef?

Just because YOU don't think it's reasonable doesn't mean others don't
think it's reasonable. If they're willing to pay, and they have the
money, that's all that matters.

What bothers you is that you're excluded from those deals simply because
you can't pay the going rate.

Re: 2006 Civic Si pricing scheme
 

In article <16t8s1llplh3f3f1ji3pmp0955503jetrc@4ax.com>,
Elbert <elbert.clarke@**adelphia.net> wrote:

> We always have the ability to walk away from the deal but that in no
> way justifies the actions of the seller.

In the case of simple pricing, it sure does.

Caveat emptor. If the salesman is doing something shady, then you walk
away--no harm, no foul.

You all seem to think that he shouldn't be doing everything he can to
maximize his income. If he can convince you that the car is worth more
money--and that's his job--then he's doing his job. It's up to you, the
consumer, to be aware of his job and not to think of him as your buddy
or pal. His job is to extract as much money from you as he can.

Your job is to spend as little money as you can.

You all just don't like it that you're in a position where you have to
work, to negotiate. You want it all cut and dried, like buying a shirt
at the store. Hey, it has a price tag on it, take it or leave it.
Wal-Mart doesn't negotiate. You're happy with that.

So why not go buy a Saturn?

Re: 2006 Civic Si pricing scheme
 

On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 06:02:52 -0500, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
<elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:

>In article <16t8s1llplh3f3f1ji3pmp0955503jetrc@4ax.com>,
> Elbert <elbert.clarke@**adelphia.net> wrote:
>
>> just because we exist in a free market society does not mean that
>> whatever you charge is fair and reasonable just because the market
>> will bear it or someone is willing to pay.
>
>Pray tell, why not?
>
>Sure, it's not reasonable to YOU because YOU don't want to pay that.
>But if they have 12 cars to sell and 15 people wanting those cars at $5K
>over invoice, what's your beef?
>
>Just because YOU don't think it's reasonable doesn't mean others don't
>think it's reasonable. If they're willing to pay, and they have the
>money, that's all that matters.
>
>What bothers you is that you're excluded from those deals simply because
>you can't pay the going rate.


buddy

You don't know crap!
---
elbert.clarke@**adelphia.net
remove ** to email

Re: 2006 Civic Si pricing scheme
 

On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 06:05:50 -0500, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
<elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:

>In article <16t8s1llplh3f3f1ji3pmp0955503jetrc@4ax.com>,
> Elbert <elbert.clarke@**adelphia.net> wrote:
>
>> We always have the ability to walk away from the deal but that in no
>> way justifies the actions of the seller.
>
>In the case of simple pricing, it sure does.
>
>Caveat emptor. If the salesman is doing something shady, then you walk
>away--no harm, no foul.
>
>You all seem to think that he shouldn't be doing everything he can to
>maximize his income. If he can convince you that the car is worth more
>money--and that's his job--then he's doing his job. It's up to you, the
>consumer, to be aware of his job and not to think of him as your buddy
>or pal. His job is to extract as much money from you as he can.
>
>Your job is to spend as little money as you can.
>
>You all just don't like it that you're in a position where you have to
>work, to negotiate. You want it all cut and dried, like buying a shirt
>at the store. Hey, it has a price tag on it, take it or leave it.
>Wal-Mart doesn't negotiate. You're happy with that.
>
>So why not go buy a Saturn?


"we-All" don't agree with your analysis.

a person who tries to take advantage of the consumer buy purely just
tacking one extreme profit is a decent good business person?

You ever hear of ethics? You ever hear of reasonable profit?

The issue is that the average consumer only knows the value of the car
by the sticker price..... the dealer takes this and then tacks on $5K
or whatever.
---
elbert.clarke@**adelphia.net
remove ** to email

Re: 2006 Civic Si pricing scheme
 

In article <jcfbs1l76m5ts8139enea1sogk295sg17k@4ax.com>,
Elbert <elbert.clarke@**adelphia.net> wrote:

> >> just because we exist in a free market society does not mean that
> >> whatever you charge is fair and reasonable just because the market
> >> will bear it or someone is willing to pay.
> >
> >Pray tell, why not?
> >
> >Sure, it's not reasonable to YOU because YOU don't want to pay that.
> >But if they have 12 cars to sell and 15 people wanting those cars at $5K
> >over invoice, what's your beef?
> >
> >Just because YOU don't think it's reasonable doesn't mean others don't
> >think it's reasonable. If they're willing to pay, and they have the
> >money, that's all that matters.
> >
> >What bothers you is that you're excluded from those deals simply because
> >you can't pay the going rate.
>
>
> buddy
>
> You don't know crap!

I know that you're one of those who (a) wants one now, but (b) doesn't
want to pay the price (or can't). Therefore, dealers who charge AND GET
more than what you WANT (or CAN) pay are, by your definition, scum.

Maybe if you got a better job. Or maybe if you got a job, period.

Re: 2006 Civic Si pricing scheme
 

On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 05:58:34 -0500, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
<elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:

>In article <1136910122.097955.306920@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups .com>,
> volwrath@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Sorry for topposting... but I think it is a given that car dealers are
>> shysters period, so what is your problem with the comment?
>
>They're not shysters, period....some salesmen are, but many are not.
>
>The fact that it's up to YOU to determine whether he's a shyster or not
>is what bugs you, I think. You want not to have to work at it. You
>want it handed to you in a "fair" manner ("fair" being what YOU think is
>fair).


a "slime-ball" is a slime-ball no matter what spin you put on the
situation.


How about the repair person who came out to your house and marked up
the repair bill by $400... just because he could. Maybe he too, is a
good business person, using your logic.
---
elbert.clarke@**adelphia.net
remove ** to email

Re: 2006 Civic Si pricing scheme
 

On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 06:01:15 -0500, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
<elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:

>In article <1136910122.097955.306920@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups .com>,
> volwrath@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> The fact of the matter is that when a car dealer attempts to sell me a
>> car for 5k over invoice, and is calling it a deal, that is a little
>> shady.
>
>If he can get $6K over invoice for every car for the next month or two,
>then yes--giving it to you for $5K over invoice is a deal.
>
>And what's with your focus in invoice price? You have this number in
>your head as a holy grail, as if it means something. Guess what? It
>doesn't. It's a fake number that has nothing to do with what the dealer
>paid for the car. Anymore, it's a number designed to satisfy people
>like you in some fashion, people who think they have to know what the
>dealer paid for the car and go from there--people who think that somehow
>that's the only "fair" way to do things.
>
>So now, the actual dealer price is hidden so well you'll never know it
>or see it. The "invoice" price is what the magician shows you in one
>hand while he's busy hiding things with the other hand.
>
>Meanwhile, you walk into a department store and happily buy a shirt
>without knowing what the store paid for it. So who's ripping you off
>now?


smoke and mirrors

you negotiate on clothing? no

you negotiate on most consumer purchases? no

you comparing apples to apples? no

---
elbert.clarke@**adelphia.net
remove ** to email

Re: 2006 Civic Si pricing scheme
 

In article <tqfbs1pgqk1mlqqvbqc8lsmg7965hp8bhc@4ax.com>,
Elbert <elbert.clarke@**adelphia.net> wrote:

> you negotiate on clothing? no
>
> you negotiate on most consumer purchases? no
>
> you comparing apples to apples? no

So you don't want to negotiate for your purchases.

Which leads me back to the question I asked, which you never answered:
why aren't you buying Saturn?

Re: 2006 Civic Si pricing scheme
 

In article <bmfbs15v93hadfl2mpdanul8c2anidgc2m@4ax.com>,
Elbert <elbert.clarke@**adelphia.net> wrote:

> >The fact that it's up to YOU to determine whether he's a shyster or not
> >is what bugs you, I think. You want not to have to work at it. You
> >want it handed to you in a "fair" manner ("fair" being what YOU think is
> >fair).
>
>
> a "slime-ball" is a slime-ball no matter what spin you put on the
> situation.

Is that your world? All black and white? EVERY car salesman is a
slimeball.

So let me ask you: when he moves to selling men's shirts in the
department store, is he still a slimeball?

Re: 2006 Civic Si pricing scheme
 

In article <gffbs11u38qcg8scovqbgl81nbfs1ik98c@4ax.com>,
Elbert <elbert.clarke@**adelphia.net> wrote:

> a person who tries to take advantage of the consumer buy purely just
> tacking one extreme profit is a decent good business person?

"by tacking on extreme profit"?

You don't get out much, do you?

The invoice number is pure fantasy. The sticker number is pure fantasy.
The car is worth what someone will pay for it, period. The dealer finds
that number as best he can. His job is not to leave money on the table.

That's his JOB.

If someone is willing to pay $26,000 for an Si, why shouldn't the dealer
get that?

Who *cares* what the sticker says? It's all fantasy, and has nothing to
do with the selling price.

You're just an idiot who doesn't like to negotiate, who thinks that
everything should be black-and-white on pricing.

How do you buy a house, anyway? I guess it doesn't matter, since you
don't have enough money to buy one or income to support it.

Re: 2006 Civic Si pricing scheme
 

In article <gffbs11u38qcg8scovqbgl81nbfs1ik98c@4ax.com>,
Elbert <elbert.clarke@**adelphia.net> wrote:

> The issue is that the average consumer only knows the value of the car
> by the sticker price..... the dealer takes this and then tacks on $5K
> or whatever.

But going the other way is OK with you, I suppose.

It's OK for GM to offer $15K in "discounts" and "rebates" on slow
selling, overpriced, leather-bound trucks, right?

You've just shown yourself. You'll be happy to BE the slimeball who
won't pay the sticker price but demands $15K UNDER--gee, after all,
that's just what that truck is worth, it was "overpriced" to begin with,
right?--but you don't like OTHERS to be the "slimeballs" who charge OVER
that fantasy sticker price if that's what the car is worth.

So why aren't you railing at everyone for not buying those GM trucks at
sticker price? After all, isn't that how the consumer knows what the
value of the car is? Why are those consumers leaving those cars on the
lot in droves, forcing GM to come up with these huge rebates? Isn't the
sticker price the value of the car?

Yer an idiot.

Re: 2006 Civic Si pricing scheme
 

On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 05:43:07 -0500, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
<elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:

>In article <gffbs11u38qcg8scovqbgl81nbfs1ik98c@4ax.com>,
> Elbert <elbert.clarke@**adelphia.net> wrote:
>
>> The issue is that the average consumer only knows the value of the car
>> by the sticker price..... the dealer takes this and then tacks on $5K
>> or whatever.
>
>But going the other way is OK with you, I suppose.
>
>It's OK for GM to offer $15K in "discounts" and "rebates" on slow
>selling, overpriced, leather-bound trucks, right?
>
>You've just shown yourself. You'll be happy to BE the slimeball who
>won't pay the sticker price but demands $15K UNDER--gee, after all,
>that's just what that truck is worth, it was "overpriced" to begin with,
>right?--but you don't like OTHERS to be the "slimeballs" who charge OVER
>that fantasy sticker price if that's what the car is worth.
>
>So why aren't you railing at everyone for not buying those GM trucks at
>sticker price? After all, isn't that how the consumer knows what the
>value of the car is? Why are those consumers leaving those cars on the
>lot in droves, forcing GM to come up with these huge rebates? Isn't the
>sticker price the value of the car?
>
>Yer an idiot.

my last comment to you is this.... Get a clue!
---
elbert.clarke@**adelphia.net
remove ** to email

Re: 2006 Civic Si pricing scheme
 

In article <2onds11rs1qnpr54226q5a9hvlq4i39q0f@4ax.com>,
Elbert <elbert.clarke@**adelphia.net> wrote:

> >So why aren't you railing at everyone for not buying those GM trucks at
> >sticker price? After all, isn't that how the consumer knows what the
> >value of the car is? Why are those consumers leaving those cars on the
> >lot in droves, forcing GM to come up with these huge rebates? Isn't the
> >sticker price the value of the car?
> >
> >Yer an idiot.
>
> my last comment to you is this.... Get a clue!

Your own words reveal you for what you are.