'87 Accord - carb problems
 

Car has been sitting in the garage for 2 years without being started. Even
when it was running, it had very bad idle just after the choke phase ended.
I purchased this vehicle at a low price but had no use for it until now.

Now, I can only start it with starting fluid and it takes quite a bit just
to get a steady idle. If I give it gas, it dies or loses power.

I'm no wiz at cars so I had the kid next door rebuild the carb. Same thing.
What I've noticed is that the carb has two bores. When I look into the
forward bore, it is bone dry. I have never seen gas blowing into this hole,
but the bore with the choke is moist with gas. I think the engine is just
running off the choke side. If I pour gas into the non-choke side, I get a
few seconds throttle operation and the choke opens all the way.

There is no smoke or steam coming out of the tail pipe so I think the
gaskets are all okay. Bad vacuum hose? Plugged fuel jet in the carb? How
would I clean that?

Re: '87 Accord - carb problems
 

Piccolo Pete wrote:
>
> Car has been sitting in the garage for 2 years without being started.
> Even when it was running, it had very bad idle just after the choke
> phase ended. I purchased this vehicle at a low price but had no use
> for it until now.
>
> Now, I can only start it with starting fluid and it takes quite a bit just
> to get a steady idle. If I give it gas, it dies or loses power.

Check the mechanical timing. Sometimes when a Honda needs starting fluid to
start it could indicate that the timing belt may have slipped a tooth or
two. If this is the case, then the timing belt should be replaced.

> I'm no wiz at cars so I had the kid next door rebuild the carb. Same
> thing. What I've noticed is that the carb has two bores. When I look
> into the forward bore, it is bone dry. I have never seen gas blowing
> into this hole, but the bore with the choke is moist with gas. I think
> the engine is just running off the choke side.

That sounds like normal operation for a car at idle, i.e., you should not
see gas in the secondary unless the engine is accelerating.

> If I pour gas into the non-choke side, I get a few seconds throttle
> operation and the choke opens all the way.

It sounds like your choke may be opening up a little early. However, I
doubt that this is the cause of your no-run condition. It may be the case
that your timing belt has slipped or that you have a bad vacuum leak
somewhere.

> There is no smoke or steam coming out of the tail pipe so I think the
> gaskets are all okay. Bad vacuum hose? Plugged fuel jet in the carb?
> How would I clean that?

Hopefully, the "kid" that rebuilt your carburetor cleaned out the fuel jets.
It's also possible that he may have not gotten something correct. Honda
sells a carburetor top clean kit which has everything you should need,
including detailed instructions. Note that this kit doesn't come with new
floats but it does come with new needle & seat valves (as well as just about
every gasket, seal, or o-ring needed).

Eric

Re: '87 Accord - carb problems
 

Piccolo Pete wrote:
>
> Car has been sitting in the garage for 2 years without being started.
> Even when it was running, it had very bad idle just after the choke
> phase ended. I purchased this vehicle at a low price but had no use
> for it until now.
>
> Now, I can only start it with starting fluid and it takes quite a bit just
> to get a steady idle. If I give it gas, it dies or loses power.

Check the mechanical timing. Sometimes when a Honda needs starting fluid to
start it could indicate that the timing belt may have slipped a tooth or
two. If this is the case, then the timing belt should be replaced.

> I'm no wiz at cars so I had the kid next door rebuild the carb. Same
> thing. What I've noticed is that the carb has two bores. When I look
> into the forward bore, it is bone dry. I have never seen gas blowing
> into this hole, but the bore with the choke is moist with gas. I think
> the engine is just running off the choke side.

That sounds like normal operation for a car at idle, i.e., you should not
see gas in the secondary unless the engine is accelerating.

> If I pour gas into the non-choke side, I get a few seconds throttle
> operation and the choke opens all the way.

It sounds like your choke may be opening up a little early. However, I
doubt that this is the cause of your no-run condition. It may be the case
that your timing belt has slipped or that you have a bad vacuum leak
somewhere.

> There is no smoke or steam coming out of the tail pipe so I think the
> gaskets are all okay. Bad vacuum hose? Plugged fuel jet in the carb?
> How would I clean that?

Hopefully, the "kid" that rebuilt your carburetor cleaned out the fuel jets.
It's also possible that he may have not gotten something correct. Honda
sells a carburetor top clean kit which has everything you should need,
including detailed instructions. Note that this kit doesn't come with new
floats but it does come with new needle & seat valves (as well as just about
every gasket, seal, or o-ring needed).

Eric

you made a few mistakes and need to explain somethings first.
 

before you even removed the carb you should have changed both fuel filters.
spark plugs, sprayed the distributor cap with starting fluid to clean it,
changed the air filter or try to run it with out the filter and changed the
pcv valve. all of t hese things are easy to do and wouldnt cost more than 20
bucks.
next, did the car run fine before it was stored for 2 years? i would also
add some fresh gas and some gas tank carb cleaner and let it idle for a half
hour to see if it would unclog it on its own. i would let it idle t hen
gradually give it gas and keep it at the higher rpm to clear it out. i had a
similar problem when i tried to use engine cleaner on my car and it wouldnt
run until a day later when everything dryed and cleared out. i have that
same car by the way.

ps. one fuel filter is near the gas tank behind the drivers side rear wheel
and the other is under the hood. also, check all your vacuum hoses cause
that can be done for free too.

you made a few mistakes and need to explain somethings first.
 

before you even removed the carb you should have changed both fuel filters.
spark plugs, sprayed the distributor cap with starting fluid to clean it,
changed the air filter or try to run it with out the filter and changed the
pcv valve. all of t hese things are easy to do and wouldnt cost more than 20
bucks.
next, did the car run fine before it was stored for 2 years? i would also
add some fresh gas and some gas tank carb cleaner and let it idle for a half
hour to see if it would unclog it on its own. i would let it idle t hen
gradually give it gas and keep it at the higher rpm to clear it out. i had a
similar problem when i tried to use engine cleaner on my car and it wouldnt
run until a day later when everything dryed and cleared out. i have that
same car by the way.

ps. one fuel filter is near the gas tank behind the drivers side rear wheel
and the other is under the hood. also, check all your vacuum hoses cause
that can be done for free too.

Re: '87 Accord - carb problems
 

"Eric" <say.no@spam.now> wrote in message news:41397FCC.EC413D6B@spam.now...
> Piccolo Pete wrote:
> >
> > Car has been sitting in the garage for 2 years without being started.
> > Even when it was running, it had very bad idle just after the choke
> > phase ended. I purchased this vehicle at a low price but had no use
> > for it until now.
> >
> > Now, I can only start it with starting fluid and it takes quite a bit
just
> > to get a steady idle. If I give it gas, it dies or loses power.
>
> Check the mechanical timing. Sometimes when a Honda needs starting fluid
to
> start it could indicate that the timing belt may have slipped a tooth or
> two. If this is the case, then the timing belt should be replaced.

Timing never even crossed my mind...

> > I'm no wiz at cars so I had the kid next door rebuild the carb. Same
> > thing. What I've noticed is that the carb has two bores. When I look
> > into the forward bore, it is bone dry. I have never seen gas blowing
> > into this hole, but the bore with the choke is moist with gas. I think
> > the engine is just running off the choke side.
>
> That sounds like normal operation for a car at idle, i.e., you should not
> see gas in the secondary unless the engine is accelerating.

The only way I can get the engine to accelerate is to shoot fuel in it.
Shouldn't I expect to see fuel spraying into the secondary at that point?

> > If I pour gas into the non-choke side, I get a few seconds throttle
> > operation and the choke opens all the way.
>
> It sounds like your choke may be opening up a little early. However, I
> doubt that this is the cause of your no-run condition. It may be the case
> that your timing belt has slipped or that you have a bad vacuum leak
> somewhere.

I was afraid you would say vacuum leak. I'm not sure which would be more
intense - performing brain surgery, or trying to figure out the vacuum hose
diagram. I did find about 4 or 5 hoses in the wrong places - but a few I
can't seem to follow.

> > There is no smoke or steam coming out of the tail pipe so I think the
> > gaskets are all okay. Bad vacuum hose? Plugged fuel jet in the carb?
> > How would I clean that?
>
> Hopefully, the "kid" that rebuilt your carburetor cleaned out the fuel
jets.
> It's also possible that he may have not gotten something correct. Honda
> sells a carburetor top clean kit which has everything you should need,
> including detailed instructions. Note that this kit doesn't come with new
> floats but it does come with new needle & seat valves (as well as just
about
> every gasket, seal, or o-ring needed).

Yeah, I bought the kit and gave it to the kid. I wish I could get a little
better detailed information and diagrams of the carb periferrals. I have no
idea what some of these things are and why they exist and the manual doesn't
even mention a couple of them. One, in particular, is toward the left rear
of the carb and has two hose inlets. The diagram shows only one hose going
to it and it isn't labelled. Looks kind of important ;-)

I'm thinking this car may be better used as a stage prop for the next
Terminator film...

>
> Eric

Re: '87 Accord - carb problems
 

"Eric" <say.no@spam.now> wrote in message news:41397FCC.EC413D6B@spam.now...
> Piccolo Pete wrote:
> >
> > Car has been sitting in the garage for 2 years without being started.
> > Even when it was running, it had very bad idle just after the choke
> > phase ended. I purchased this vehicle at a low price but had no use
> > for it until now.
> >
> > Now, I can only start it with starting fluid and it takes quite a bit
just
> > to get a steady idle. If I give it gas, it dies or loses power.
>
> Check the mechanical timing. Sometimes when a Honda needs starting fluid
to
> start it could indicate that the timing belt may have slipped a tooth or
> two. If this is the case, then the timing belt should be replaced.

Timing never even crossed my mind...

> > I'm no wiz at cars so I had the kid next door rebuild the carb. Same
> > thing. What I've noticed is that the carb has two bores. When I look
> > into the forward bore, it is bone dry. I have never seen gas blowing
> > into this hole, but the bore with the choke is moist with gas. I think
> > the engine is just running off the choke side.
>
> That sounds like normal operation for a car at idle, i.e., you should not
> see gas in the secondary unless the engine is accelerating.

The only way I can get the engine to accelerate is to shoot fuel in it.
Shouldn't I expect to see fuel spraying into the secondary at that point?

> > If I pour gas into the non-choke side, I get a few seconds throttle
> > operation and the choke opens all the way.
>
> It sounds like your choke may be opening up a little early. However, I
> doubt that this is the cause of your no-run condition. It may be the case
> that your timing belt has slipped or that you have a bad vacuum leak
> somewhere.

I was afraid you would say vacuum leak. I'm not sure which would be more
intense - performing brain surgery, or trying to figure out the vacuum hose
diagram. I did find about 4 or 5 hoses in the wrong places - but a few I
can't seem to follow.

> > There is no smoke or steam coming out of the tail pipe so I think the
> > gaskets are all okay. Bad vacuum hose? Plugged fuel jet in the carb?
> > How would I clean that?
>
> Hopefully, the "kid" that rebuilt your carburetor cleaned out the fuel
jets.
> It's also possible that he may have not gotten something correct. Honda
> sells a carburetor top clean kit which has everything you should need,
> including detailed instructions. Note that this kit doesn't come with new
> floats but it does come with new needle & seat valves (as well as just
about
> every gasket, seal, or o-ring needed).

Yeah, I bought the kit and gave it to the kid. I wish I could get a little
better detailed information and diagrams of the carb periferrals. I have no
idea what some of these things are and why they exist and the manual doesn't
even mention a couple of them. One, in particular, is toward the left rear
of the carb and has two hose inlets. The diagram shows only one hose going
to it and it isn't labelled. Looks kind of important ;-)

I'm thinking this car may be better used as a stage prop for the next
Terminator film...

>
> Eric

Re: you made a few mistakes and need to explain somethings first.
 

I didn't even see this message because of the subject title.

Anyway... yes, I did all those things. I also disconnected the fuel line
and tested the pump. I looked at the gas and there was no water. It does
have fresh gas and new filters.

When I purchased the car, the previous owner told me it had a problem with
the carberator. It would start, but it took a lot of work to keep it
running until it finally heated up. Once it warmed up, it seemed to run
normally, but I didn't take it very far because it had no tag and my wife
didn't have her license yet so it wasn't ready to be driven anyway.

As for the vacuum hoses - I mention them in another post. Presently, I'm
getting smashed by a hurricane but as soon the stores open up I'll be
getting new hoses.


"lamont" <lamont@microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:_fm_c.1657$AB6.586@trndny04...
> before you even removed the carb you should have changed both fuel
filters.
> spark plugs, sprayed the distributor cap with starting fluid to clean it,
> changed the air filter or try to run it with out the filter and changed
the
> pcv valve. all of t hese things are easy to do and wouldnt cost more than
20
> bucks.
> next, did the car run fine before it was stored for 2 years? i would also
> add some fresh gas and some gas tank carb cleaner and let it idle for a
half
> hour to see if it would unclog it on its own. i would let it idle t hen
> gradually give it gas and keep it at the higher rpm to clear it out. i had
a
> similar problem when i tried to use engine cleaner on my car and it
wouldnt
> run until a day later when everything dryed and cleared out. i have that
> same car by the way.
>
> ps. one fuel filter is near the gas tank behind the drivers side rear
wheel
> and the other is under the hood. also, check all your vacuum hoses cause
> that can be done for free too.
>
>

Re: you made a few mistakes and need to explain somethings first.
 

I didn't even see this message because of the subject title.

Anyway... yes, I did all those things. I also disconnected the fuel line
and tested the pump. I looked at the gas and there was no water. It does
have fresh gas and new filters.

When I purchased the car, the previous owner told me it had a problem with
the carberator. It would start, but it took a lot of work to keep it
running until it finally heated up. Once it warmed up, it seemed to run
normally, but I didn't take it very far because it had no tag and my wife
didn't have her license yet so it wasn't ready to be driven anyway.

As for the vacuum hoses - I mention them in another post. Presently, I'm
getting smashed by a hurricane but as soon the stores open up I'll be
getting new hoses.


"lamont" <lamont@microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:_fm_c.1657$AB6.586@trndny04...
> before you even removed the carb you should have changed both fuel
filters.
> spark plugs, sprayed the distributor cap with starting fluid to clean it,
> changed the air filter or try to run it with out the filter and changed
the
> pcv valve. all of t hese things are easy to do and wouldnt cost more than
20
> bucks.
> next, did the car run fine before it was stored for 2 years? i would also
> add some fresh gas and some gas tank carb cleaner and let it idle for a
half
> hour to see if it would unclog it on its own. i would let it idle t hen
> gradually give it gas and keep it at the higher rpm to clear it out. i had
a
> similar problem when i tried to use engine cleaner on my car and it
wouldnt
> run until a day later when everything dryed and cleared out. i have that
> same car by the way.
>
> ps. one fuel filter is near the gas tank behind the drivers side rear
wheel
> and the other is under the hood. also, check all your vacuum hoses cause
> that can be done for free too.
>
>

Re: '87 Accord - carb problems
 

Piccolo Pete wrote:
>
> Yeah, I bought the kit and gave it to the kid. I wish I could get a
> little better detailed information and diagrams of the carb periferrals.
> I have no idea what some of these things are and why they exist and the
> manual doesn't even mention a couple of them. One, in particular, is
> toward the left rear of the carb and has two hose inlets. The diagram
> shows only one hose going to it and it isn't labelled. Looks kind of
> important ;-)
>

Which manual are you using? You can get a factory service manual from
http://www.helminc.com. If you're going to be working on your car on a
regular basis, then it will be worth the expense to add it to your tool
collection.

By the way, don't overlook the PCV valve as a possible source of running
problems. Sometimes, if they fail wide open, they can be source of a vacuum
leak which will be undetectable via carb clean spray or via a propane boost
test as the air will be drawn from inside the crank case.

Eric

Re: '87 Accord - carb problems
 

Piccolo Pete wrote:
>
> Yeah, I bought the kit and gave it to the kid. I wish I could get a
> little better detailed information and diagrams of the carb periferrals.
> I have no idea what some of these things are and why they exist and the
> manual doesn't even mention a couple of them. One, in particular, is
> toward the left rear of the carb and has two hose inlets. The diagram
> shows only one hose going to it and it isn't labelled. Looks kind of
> important ;-)
>

Which manual are you using? You can get a factory service manual from
http://www.helminc.com. If you're going to be working on your car on a
regular basis, then it will be worth the expense to add it to your tool
collection.

By the way, don't overlook the PCV valve as a possible source of running
problems. Sometimes, if they fail wide open, they can be source of a vacuum
leak which will be undetectable via carb clean spray or via a propane boost
test as the air will be drawn from inside the crank case.

Eric

Re: you made a few mistakes and need to explain somethings first
 

Hi, I am having the exact same problem with my 88 Honda Accord. I have been
advised that I should maybe look into going to a salvage yard and getting a
better carb from a wrecked car. As things are now, I have done everything
that you said you did to no avail. If it runs good when the engine is
cold, it stalls when it heats up and vice versa.

I am at my wits end with this and really need somebody to tell me what
I am not doing. The BIG MISTAKE that I made was trying to adjust the
choke. What a headache!!! So now, my car either won't run or when it
starts, it idles at 3000 RPM (Thats right, 3000). I am so mad I could
shoot the car.

Any advice that you could give me would help. P.S., when it does run,
it tries to stall everytime I make a sharp turn above 5 mph. Could the
float be the problem?

Thanks, lackej1971

Re: you made a few mistakes and need to explain somethings first
 

Hi, I am having the exact same problem with my 88 Honda Accord. I have been
advised that I should maybe look into going to a salvage yard and getting a
better carb from a wrecked car. As things are now, I have done everything
that you said you did to no avail. If it runs good when the engine is
cold, it stalls when it heats up and vice versa.

I am at my wits end with this and really need somebody to tell me what
I am not doing. The BIG MISTAKE that I made was trying to adjust the
choke. What a headache!!! So now, my car either won't run or when it
starts, it idles at 3000 RPM (Thats right, 3000). I am so mad I could
shoot the car.

Any advice that you could give me would help. P.S., when it does run,
it tries to stall everytime I make a sharp turn above 5 mph. Could the
float be the problem?

Thanks, lackej1971