'91 Civic Si problems...
 

This is an ongoing problem that until today has appeared to be main relay
related. It has been acting up intermittently for about 2 months.

What happens is that the engine will cut out while driving. The first time
this happened it restarted after sitting for a couple hours. I purchased a
new main relay and the car has stalled with that. The new and old relays
have both been resoldered and it has stalled with each of them. The reason
that I keep working on the relays is that it has always started and never
stalled (until tonight) when I have put jumper wires in place of the relay
(connecting 1-3 and 5-7).

I have not been able to discover any wiring faults. The wire to ground and
the wire to the ECU test fine.

Tonight the car stalled and would not restart with jumpers in place. I can
here a click from the ECU when I install one wire, and with the other wire
in place I can hear the fuel pump hum when I put the switch in the start
position.

So, I have to conclude that it is not the main relay, since both necessary
circuits have power and the car is not running. What am I missing?

I have noticed that when the engine stalls the tach drops to zero while the
engine is still spinning. This suggests no spark. Could this be a bad
igniter or a bad ECU? Could it be the ECU ground? I've been trying to
check it, but I can't find it. Anyone know where it is? '91 Civic Si
hatchback.

Any and all help will be greatly appreciated.

Jason

Re: '91 Civic Si problems...
 

On 1/18/04 20:32, in article BC309DE4.16289%jpfaasNOSPAM@neb.rr.com, "Jason
Faas" <jpfaasNOSPAM@neb.rr.com> wrote:

> Tonight the car stalled and would not restart with jumpers in place. I can
> here a click from the ECU when I install one wire, and with the other wire
> in place I can hear the fuel pump hum when I put the switch in the start
> position.
>
Correction: I hear the fuel pump when the switch is in the "on" position.
I can only assume it runs when I turn it to start.

Jason

Re: '91 Civic Si problems...
 

On 1/18/04 20:32, in article BC309DE4.16289%jpfaasNOSPAM@neb.rr.com, "Jason
Faas" <jpfaasNOSPAM@neb.rr.com> wrote:

> Tonight the car stalled and would not restart with jumpers in place. I can
> here a click from the ECU when I install one wire, and with the other wire
> in place I can hear the fuel pump hum when I put the switch in the start
> position.
>
Correction: I hear the fuel pump when the switch is in the "on" position.
I can only assume it runs when I turn it to start.

Jason

Re: '91 Civic Si problems...
 

On 1/18/04 20:32, in article BC309DE4.16289%jpfaasNOSPAM@neb.rr.com, "Jason
Faas" <jpfaasNOSPAM@neb.rr.com> wrote:

> Tonight the car stalled and would not restart with jumpers in place. I can
> here a click from the ECU when I install one wire, and with the other wire
> in place I can hear the fuel pump hum when I put the switch in the start
> position.
>
Correction: I hear the fuel pump when the switch is in the "on" position.
I can only assume it runs when I turn it to start.

Jason

Re: '91 Civic Si problems...
 

On 1/18/04 20:32, in article BC309DE4.16289%jpfaasNOSPAM@neb.rr.com, "Jason
Faas" <jpfaasNOSPAM@neb.rr.com> wrote:

> Tonight the car stalled and would not restart with jumpers in place. I can
> here a click from the ECU when I install one wire, and with the other wire
> in place I can hear the fuel pump hum when I put the switch in the start
> position.
>
Correction: I hear the fuel pump when the switch is in the "on" position.
I can only assume it runs when I turn it to start.

Jason

Re: '91 Civic Si problems...
 

I had some similar issues with my 91 Si a while back, check the coil inside
the distributor, as well.

Good Luck!

JW

"Jason Faas" <jpfaasNOSPAM@neb.rr.com> wrote in message
news:BC30A960.1628F%jpfaasNOSPAM@neb.rr.com...
> On 1/18/04 20:32, in article BC309DE4.16289%jpfaasNOSPAM@neb.rr.com,
"Jason
> Faas" <jpfaasNOSPAM@neb.rr.com> wrote:
>
> > Tonight the car stalled and would not restart with jumpers in place. I
can
> > here a click from the ECU when I install one wire, and with the other
wire
> > in place I can hear the fuel pump hum when I put the switch in the start
> > position.
> >
> Correction: I hear the fuel pump when the switch is in the "on" position.
> I can only assume it runs when I turn it to start.
>
> Jason
>

Re: '91 Civic Si problems...
 

I had some similar issues with my 91 Si a while back, check the coil inside
the distributor, as well.

Good Luck!

JW

"Jason Faas" <jpfaasNOSPAM@neb.rr.com> wrote in message
news:BC30A960.1628F%jpfaasNOSPAM@neb.rr.com...
> On 1/18/04 20:32, in article BC309DE4.16289%jpfaasNOSPAM@neb.rr.com,
"Jason
> Faas" <jpfaasNOSPAM@neb.rr.com> wrote:
>
> > Tonight the car stalled and would not restart with jumpers in place. I
can
> > here a click from the ECU when I install one wire, and with the other
wire
> > in place I can hear the fuel pump hum when I put the switch in the start
> > position.
> >
> Correction: I hear the fuel pump when the switch is in the "on" position.
> I can only assume it runs when I turn it to start.
>
> Jason
>

Re: '91 Civic Si problems...
 

I had some similar issues with my 91 Si a while back, check the coil inside
the distributor, as well.

Good Luck!

JW

"Jason Faas" <jpfaasNOSPAM@neb.rr.com> wrote in message
news:BC30A960.1628F%jpfaasNOSPAM@neb.rr.com...
> On 1/18/04 20:32, in article BC309DE4.16289%jpfaasNOSPAM@neb.rr.com,
"Jason
> Faas" <jpfaasNOSPAM@neb.rr.com> wrote:
>
> > Tonight the car stalled and would not restart with jumpers in place. I
can
> > here a click from the ECU when I install one wire, and with the other
wire
> > in place I can hear the fuel pump hum when I put the switch in the start
> > position.
> >
> Correction: I hear the fuel pump when the switch is in the "on" position.
> I can only assume it runs when I turn it to start.
>
> Jason
>

Re: '91 Civic Si problems...
 

I had some similar issues with my 91 Si a while back, check the coil inside
the distributor, as well.

Good Luck!

JW

"Jason Faas" <jpfaasNOSPAM@neb.rr.com> wrote in message
news:BC30A960.1628F%jpfaasNOSPAM@neb.rr.com...
> On 1/18/04 20:32, in article BC309DE4.16289%jpfaasNOSPAM@neb.rr.com,
"Jason
> Faas" <jpfaasNOSPAM@neb.rr.com> wrote:
>
> > Tonight the car stalled and would not restart with jumpers in place. I
can
> > here a click from the ECU when I install one wire, and with the other
wire
> > in place I can hear the fuel pump hum when I put the switch in the start
> > position.
> >
> Correction: I hear the fuel pump when the switch is in the "on" position.
> I can only assume it runs when I turn it to start.
>
> Jason
>

Re: '91 Civic Si problems...
 

Jason Faas wrote:
>
> This is an ongoing problem that until today has appeared to be main relay
> related. It has been acting up intermittently for about 2 months.
>
> What happens is that the engine will cut out while driving. The first time
> this happened it restarted after sitting for a couple hours. I purchased a
> new main relay and the car has stalled with that. The new and old relays
> have both been resoldered and it has stalled with each of them. The reason
> that I keep working on the relays is that it has always started and never
> stalled (until tonight) when I have put jumper wires in place of the relay
> (connecting 1-3 and 5-7).
>
> I have not been able to discover any wiring faults. The wire to ground and
> the wire to the ECU test fine.
>
> Tonight the car stalled and would not restart with jumpers in place. I can
> here a click from the ECU when I install one wire, and with the other wire
> in place I can hear the fuel pump hum when I put the switch in the start
> position.
>
> So, I have to conclude that it is not the main relay, since both necessary
> circuits have power and the car is not running. What am I missing?
>
> I have noticed that when the engine stalls the tach drops to zero while the
> engine is still spinning. This suggests no spark. Could this be a bad
> igniter or a bad ECU? Could it be the ECU ground? I've been trying to
> check it, but I can't find it. Anyone know where it is? '91 Civic Si
> hatchback.
>
> Any and all help will be greatly appreciated.
>
> Jason
===============
Jason,

It soulnds like your ignition switch is failing to keep power to the
main relay / tach. there was a rtecall of about a million Honda ignition
switches in North America.

You could do a Google search. The symptoms sound exactly like we
experienced on our '97 CRV, with 200.000 km on it. It dies in traffic,
and on the highway. Tach / cruise dropped first.

'Curly'

=================

Re: '91 Civic Si problems...
 

Jason Faas wrote:
>
> This is an ongoing problem that until today has appeared to be main relay
> related. It has been acting up intermittently for about 2 months.
>
> What happens is that the engine will cut out while driving. The first time
> this happened it restarted after sitting for a couple hours. I purchased a
> new main relay and the car has stalled with that. The new and old relays
> have both been resoldered and it has stalled with each of them. The reason
> that I keep working on the relays is that it has always started and never
> stalled (until tonight) when I have put jumper wires in place of the relay
> (connecting 1-3 and 5-7).
>
> I have not been able to discover any wiring faults. The wire to ground and
> the wire to the ECU test fine.
>
> Tonight the car stalled and would not restart with jumpers in place. I can
> here a click from the ECU when I install one wire, and with the other wire
> in place I can hear the fuel pump hum when I put the switch in the start
> position.
>
> So, I have to conclude that it is not the main relay, since both necessary
> circuits have power and the car is not running. What am I missing?
>
> I have noticed that when the engine stalls the tach drops to zero while the
> engine is still spinning. This suggests no spark. Could this be a bad
> igniter or a bad ECU? Could it be the ECU ground? I've been trying to
> check it, but I can't find it. Anyone know where it is? '91 Civic Si
> hatchback.
>
> Any and all help will be greatly appreciated.
>
> Jason
===============
Jason,

It soulnds like your ignition switch is failing to keep power to the
main relay / tach. there was a rtecall of about a million Honda ignition
switches in North America.

You could do a Google search. The symptoms sound exactly like we
experienced on our '97 CRV, with 200.000 km on it. It dies in traffic,
and on the highway. Tach / cruise dropped first.

'Curly'

=================

Re: '91 Civic Si problems...
 

Jason Faas wrote:
>
> This is an ongoing problem that until today has appeared to be main relay
> related. It has been acting up intermittently for about 2 months.
>
> What happens is that the engine will cut out while driving. The first time
> this happened it restarted after sitting for a couple hours. I purchased a
> new main relay and the car has stalled with that. The new and old relays
> have both been resoldered and it has stalled with each of them. The reason
> that I keep working on the relays is that it has always started and never
> stalled (until tonight) when I have put jumper wires in place of the relay
> (connecting 1-3 and 5-7).
>
> I have not been able to discover any wiring faults. The wire to ground and
> the wire to the ECU test fine.
>
> Tonight the car stalled and would not restart with jumpers in place. I can
> here a click from the ECU when I install one wire, and with the other wire
> in place I can hear the fuel pump hum when I put the switch in the start
> position.
>
> So, I have to conclude that it is not the main relay, since both necessary
> circuits have power and the car is not running. What am I missing?
>
> I have noticed that when the engine stalls the tach drops to zero while the
> engine is still spinning. This suggests no spark. Could this be a bad
> igniter or a bad ECU? Could it be the ECU ground? I've been trying to
> check it, but I can't find it. Anyone know where it is? '91 Civic Si
> hatchback.
>
> Any and all help will be greatly appreciated.
>
> Jason
===============
Jason,

It soulnds like your ignition switch is failing to keep power to the
main relay / tach. there was a rtecall of about a million Honda ignition
switches in North America.

You could do a Google search. The symptoms sound exactly like we
experienced on our '97 CRV, with 200.000 km on it. It dies in traffic,
and on the highway. Tach / cruise dropped first.

'Curly'

=================

Re: '91 Civic Si problems...
 

Jason Faas wrote:
>
> This is an ongoing problem that until today has appeared to be main relay
> related. It has been acting up intermittently for about 2 months.
>
> What happens is that the engine will cut out while driving. The first time
> this happened it restarted after sitting for a couple hours. I purchased a
> new main relay and the car has stalled with that. The new and old relays
> have both been resoldered and it has stalled with each of them. The reason
> that I keep working on the relays is that it has always started and never
> stalled (until tonight) when I have put jumper wires in place of the relay
> (connecting 1-3 and 5-7).
>
> I have not been able to discover any wiring faults. The wire to ground and
> the wire to the ECU test fine.
>
> Tonight the car stalled and would not restart with jumpers in place. I can
> here a click from the ECU when I install one wire, and with the other wire
> in place I can hear the fuel pump hum when I put the switch in the start
> position.
>
> So, I have to conclude that it is not the main relay, since both necessary
> circuits have power and the car is not running. What am I missing?
>
> I have noticed that when the engine stalls the tach drops to zero while the
> engine is still spinning. This suggests no spark. Could this be a bad
> igniter or a bad ECU? Could it be the ECU ground? I've been trying to
> check it, but I can't find it. Anyone know where it is? '91 Civic Si
> hatchback.
>
> Any and all help will be greatly appreciated.
>
> Jason
===============
Jason,

It soulnds like your ignition switch is failing to keep power to the
main relay / tach. there was a rtecall of about a million Honda ignition
switches in North America.

You could do a Google search. The symptoms sound exactly like we
experienced on our '97 CRV, with 200.000 km on it. It dies in traffic,
and on the highway. Tach / cruise dropped first.

'Curly'

=================

Re: '91 Civic Si problems...
 

On 1/19/04 12:07, in article 400C1CEB.826A6FF4@interbaun.com, "'Curly Q.
Links'" <motsco__@interbaun.com> wrote:


[original post trimmed: car stalls, now won't start]

> Jason,
>
> It soulnds like your ignition switch is failing to keep power to the
> main relay / tach. there was a rtecall of about a million Honda ignition
> switches in North America.
>
> You could do a Google search. The symptoms sound exactly like we
> experienced on our '97 CRV, with 200.000 km on it. It dies in traffic,
> and on the highway. Tach / cruise dropped first.
>
> 'Curly'
>
> =================

Okay, that might be something to check, but right now the car won't start
when I can verify that the main relay is getting power--unless it is getting
power in "on" but not in "start". A possibility.

I was able to pull some fault codes this morning. I got a 15 (ignition
output signal) and a 20 (electric load detector). I have the Honda shop
manual and I'm following the troubleshooting in there. I think I'll have
some answers pretty soon. Right now I've got a charger on the battery (I
wore it down a little bit trying to get it started...)

I was wondering if the code 20 could be related to the battery being almost
dead?

Jason

Jason

Re: '91 Civic Si problems...
 

On 1/19/04 12:07, in article 400C1CEB.826A6FF4@interbaun.com, "'Curly Q.
Links'" <motsco__@interbaun.com> wrote:


[original post trimmed: car stalls, now won't start]

> Jason,
>
> It soulnds like your ignition switch is failing to keep power to the
> main relay / tach. there was a rtecall of about a million Honda ignition
> switches in North America.
>
> You could do a Google search. The symptoms sound exactly like we
> experienced on our '97 CRV, with 200.000 km on it. It dies in traffic,
> and on the highway. Tach / cruise dropped first.
>
> 'Curly'
>
> =================

Okay, that might be something to check, but right now the car won't start
when I can verify that the main relay is getting power--unless it is getting
power in "on" but not in "start". A possibility.

I was able to pull some fault codes this morning. I got a 15 (ignition
output signal) and a 20 (electric load detector). I have the Honda shop
manual and I'm following the troubleshooting in there. I think I'll have
some answers pretty soon. Right now I've got a charger on the battery (I
wore it down a little bit trying to get it started...)

I was wondering if the code 20 could be related to the battery being almost
dead?

Jason

Jason