'92 Civic DX Hatchback Idle dropout problem
I just had some major work done on my '92 Civic DX Hatchback
(automatic transmission, A/C, NOT a VTEC, the regular engine) at my local Honda dealership. Car had been running well. Have ~85,000 miles (I'd don't drive much). Now I have a very frustrating idle problem (the engine randomly almost dies) that no one can figure out. Here's the story: 1. In May, the engine began sputtering occasionally at stoplights, especially when trying to accelerate from a stop. Led to a few close calls with oncoming traffic, as the engine almost died mid- intersection. 2. After this happened ~3 times over ~3 days, the engine just died, wouldn't restart (cranked OK), & had to be towed to Honda dealer. 3. Codes revealed a faulty Idle Air Control Valve (IACV), which was stuck shut. IACV was therefore replaced. 4. Also had other major maintenance performed (it was time anyway): 90,000 mile service, including Valve Clearance Adjustment, timing belt, water pump, new plugs & air filter. Now the trouble really began... 5. Car didn't perform well at highway speeds (hard to quantify, but engine just seemed louder & less powerful at high speeds, ~80 mph). ALSO, at idle, in gear, at a stop, idled roughly, and it seems like the motor is cutting off for a split second. Almost dies, then recovers. Seems to happen more when it is warmer out (~75-80 oF). Rarely happens if either the car is in Park/Neutral, or if the A/C is on, or if you're actually moving. 6. First the dealer's mechanics couldn't observe the idle problem, then didn't believe it was an issue, then asked if I was sure it wasn't happening before I brought the car in the first time, etc. They also said that the IACV had an "adjusting screw" that was improperly adjusted, and that it was now adj. properly. (Next time, I was told that the IACV does not have any adj. screw!!) Did NOT fix the idle problem. 7. Back again to dealer. Service manager is trying his best, and replaced the PCV valve and its hose. No change in idle problem. 8. Back again. Manager discovered that the valve clearance had been adj. too loose, and timing was 5 degrees retarded. Fixed the clearance, rechecked timing, idle speed, etc. Also cleaned out the throttle body (they said it had some carbon buildup). All this now seemed at last to improve the high speed driveability somewhat. Possible improvement in the idle problem (seems less frequent), but still not gone. 9. Now, the idle dropout happens like this: a. Car is idling, and fan comes on. This kicks up the idle speed a bit. b. Fan shuts off. After ~7 seconds, idle speed drops back down. c. After ~20-25 seconds more, engine drops out...idle speed for that split second makes like it is trying to go to zero. d. Cycle of a, b, c repeats (for as long as you're willing to sit and wait). The specific timing of the problem described #9 makes me think it is unlikely to be plugs, SP wires, rotor, cap, etc. (Wires & cap were replaced ~2 yrs ago (non-Honda).) Coolant-temperature related? Some other kind of sensor? What else could it be? A faulty, new IACV? Other things I've seen mentioned: coolant temp. sensor; Throttle Position Sensor, coil, igniter, SP-etc.. Sorry to be so long-winded, but figured I'd give you experts all the info I have. Desperate for help!! Thanks!!! |
Re: '92 Civic DX Hatchback Idle dropout problem
david.borhani@alum.mit.edu wrote:
<snip> get to the point - i'm not paid for this. 3 lines or less - what's the problem? |
Re: '92 Civic DX Hatchback Idle dropout problem
david.borhani@alum.mit.edu wrote:
<snip> get to the point - i'm not paid for this. 3 lines or less - what's the problem? |
Re: '92 Civic DX Hatchback Idle dropout problem
david.borhani@alum.mit.edu wrote:
<snip> get to the point - i'm not paid for this. 3 lines or less - what's the problem? |
Re: '92 Civic DX Hatchback Idle dropout problem
On Jun 22, 12:08 am, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote:
> get to the point - i'm not paid for this. 3 lines or less - what's the problem? Idle drops out: a. Car is idling OK, fan comes on, idle speed increases a bit. b. Fan shuts off. After ~7 seconds, idle speed drops back down. c. After ~20-25 seconds more, engine drops out...idle speed for a split second goes to zero. d. a, b, c repeats endlessly |
Re: '92 Civic DX Hatchback Idle dropout problem
On Jun 22, 12:08 am, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote:
> get to the point - i'm not paid for this. 3 lines or less - what's the problem? Idle drops out: a. Car is idling OK, fan comes on, idle speed increases a bit. b. Fan shuts off. After ~7 seconds, idle speed drops back down. c. After ~20-25 seconds more, engine drops out...idle speed for a split second goes to zero. d. a, b, c repeats endlessly |
Re: '92 Civic DX Hatchback Idle dropout problem
On Jun 22, 12:08 am, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote:
> get to the point - i'm not paid for this. 3 lines or less - what's the problem? Idle drops out: a. Car is idling OK, fan comes on, idle speed increases a bit. b. Fan shuts off. After ~7 seconds, idle speed drops back down. c. After ~20-25 seconds more, engine drops out...idle speed for a split second goes to zero. d. a, b, c repeats endlessly |
Re: '92 Civic DX Hatchback Idle dropout problem
david.borhani@alum.mit.edu wrote:
> On Jun 22, 12:08 am, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote: >> get to the point - i'm not paid for this. 3 lines or less - what's the problem? > > Idle drops out: > a. Car is idling OK, fan comes on, idle speed increases a bit. > b. Fan shuts off. After ~7 seconds, idle speed drops back down. > c. After ~20-25 seconds more, engine drops out...idle speed for a > split second goes to zero. > d. a, b, c repeats endlessly > thank you. 1. check the coolant level in the radiator when cold - [never rely on the expansion bottle level to tell you because if there's an air leak, the level never changes.] 2. if the above is ok, check the idle control circuit. disconnect the i.a.c.v. when warm and see what happens to engine revs. if the engine dies, you need to set the idle correctly. and before you do that, you need to check everything else is set right like timing, valve lash, etc. when you've prepared everything else sufficiently, remove the iacv and check the filter screen is not clogged. carburettor cleaner and a q-tip work great for that. 3. check for error codes on the computer as well! a great thing to buy for your honda is the factory service manual from helminc.com. full diagnostic flowcharts for every system on the vehicle. |
Re: '92 Civic DX Hatchback Idle dropout problem
david.borhani@alum.mit.edu wrote:
> On Jun 22, 12:08 am, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote: >> get to the point - i'm not paid for this. 3 lines or less - what's the problem? > > Idle drops out: > a. Car is idling OK, fan comes on, idle speed increases a bit. > b. Fan shuts off. After ~7 seconds, idle speed drops back down. > c. After ~20-25 seconds more, engine drops out...idle speed for a > split second goes to zero. > d. a, b, c repeats endlessly > thank you. 1. check the coolant level in the radiator when cold - [never rely on the expansion bottle level to tell you because if there's an air leak, the level never changes.] 2. if the above is ok, check the idle control circuit. disconnect the i.a.c.v. when warm and see what happens to engine revs. if the engine dies, you need to set the idle correctly. and before you do that, you need to check everything else is set right like timing, valve lash, etc. when you've prepared everything else sufficiently, remove the iacv and check the filter screen is not clogged. carburettor cleaner and a q-tip work great for that. 3. check for error codes on the computer as well! a great thing to buy for your honda is the factory service manual from helminc.com. full diagnostic flowcharts for every system on the vehicle. |
Re: '92 Civic DX Hatchback Idle dropout problem
david.borhani@alum.mit.edu wrote:
> On Jun 22, 12:08 am, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote: >> get to the point - i'm not paid for this. 3 lines or less - what's the problem? > > Idle drops out: > a. Car is idling OK, fan comes on, idle speed increases a bit. > b. Fan shuts off. After ~7 seconds, idle speed drops back down. > c. After ~20-25 seconds more, engine drops out...idle speed for a > split second goes to zero. > d. a, b, c repeats endlessly > thank you. 1. check the coolant level in the radiator when cold - [never rely on the expansion bottle level to tell you because if there's an air leak, the level never changes.] 2. if the above is ok, check the idle control circuit. disconnect the i.a.c.v. when warm and see what happens to engine revs. if the engine dies, you need to set the idle correctly. and before you do that, you need to check everything else is set right like timing, valve lash, etc. when you've prepared everything else sufficiently, remove the iacv and check the filter screen is not clogged. carburettor cleaner and a q-tip work great for that. 3. check for error codes on the computer as well! a great thing to buy for your honda is the factory service manual from helminc.com. full diagnostic flowcharts for every system on the vehicle. |
Re: '92 Civic DX Hatchback Idle dropout problem
david.borhani@alum.mit.edu wrote:
> I just had some major work done on my '92 Civic DX Hatchback > (automatic transmission, A/C, NOT a VTEC, the regular engine) at my > local Honda dealership. <SNIP> > Sorry to be so long-winded, but figured I'd give you experts all the > info I have. > > Desperate for help!! Thanks!!! ------------------------------------ The dealer sounds like a dope. Fill the reservoir to =MAX= and check if the rad is full to the top. (this is in your owner's manual). If the coolant level drops next day, you had AIR in the system. It can screw up LOTS of things on all Hondas. Look at the adjustment slot on your upper distributor bolt and see if it's set near the center, or has somebody cranked it all the way to one end of the slot? If so, they probably got the Timing belt off by one tooth and tried to correct by changing the ignition timing. Report back. 'Curly' |
Re: '92 Civic DX Hatchback Idle dropout problem
david.borhani@alum.mit.edu wrote:
> I just had some major work done on my '92 Civic DX Hatchback > (automatic transmission, A/C, NOT a VTEC, the regular engine) at my > local Honda dealership. <SNIP> > Sorry to be so long-winded, but figured I'd give you experts all the > info I have. > > Desperate for help!! Thanks!!! ------------------------------------ The dealer sounds like a dope. Fill the reservoir to =MAX= and check if the rad is full to the top. (this is in your owner's manual). If the coolant level drops next day, you had AIR in the system. It can screw up LOTS of things on all Hondas. Look at the adjustment slot on your upper distributor bolt and see if it's set near the center, or has somebody cranked it all the way to one end of the slot? If so, they probably got the Timing belt off by one tooth and tried to correct by changing the ignition timing. Report back. 'Curly' |
Re: '92 Civic DX Hatchback Idle dropout problem
david.borhani@alum.mit.edu wrote:
> I just had some major work done on my '92 Civic DX Hatchback > (automatic transmission, A/C, NOT a VTEC, the regular engine) at my > local Honda dealership. <SNIP> > Sorry to be so long-winded, but figured I'd give you experts all the > info I have. > > Desperate for help!! Thanks!!! ------------------------------------ The dealer sounds like a dope. Fill the reservoir to =MAX= and check if the rad is full to the top. (this is in your owner's manual). If the coolant level drops next day, you had AIR in the system. It can screw up LOTS of things on all Hondas. Look at the adjustment slot on your upper distributor bolt and see if it's set near the center, or has somebody cranked it all the way to one end of the slot? If so, they probably got the Timing belt off by one tooth and tried to correct by changing the ignition timing. Report back. 'Curly' |
Re: '92 Civic DX Hatchback Idle dropout problem
> motsco/Curly, Jim Beam: Check coolant, reservoir
Radiator is full when engine is cold, reservoir ~1/2+ full. Did of course get coolant flush because of water pump repl. w/ T-belt service. Will a careful re-flush eliminate possible bubbles? > motsco/Curly: Check adjustment slot on your upper distributor bolt See about 3 mm of slot showing past the large washer. Gap is toward rear of engine, i.e. looks like bolt is toward front end of of range, but I can't quite tell how far to end of range (no personal experience). Do you think this is near end of range? Can also see old marking from washer visible on dist. case at rear of range. So, set wrong now, and possibly before as well? Should it be ~in the middle? If so, should I take it back to dealer and ask that they move T-belt by one tooth in correct direction, then re-do timing, idle adj.? Anything else? > Jim Beam: Check IACV when hot. Check codes. Haven't done the IACV check yet (will try tomorrow). Presumably dealer saw no other codes other than orig. IACV problem? I don't have code- checking equip. Thanks guys |
Re: '92 Civic DX Hatchback Idle dropout problem
> motsco/Curly, Jim Beam: Check coolant, reservoir
Radiator is full when engine is cold, reservoir ~1/2+ full. Did of course get coolant flush because of water pump repl. w/ T-belt service. Will a careful re-flush eliminate possible bubbles? > motsco/Curly: Check adjustment slot on your upper distributor bolt See about 3 mm of slot showing past the large washer. Gap is toward rear of engine, i.e. looks like bolt is toward front end of of range, but I can't quite tell how far to end of range (no personal experience). Do you think this is near end of range? Can also see old marking from washer visible on dist. case at rear of range. So, set wrong now, and possibly before as well? Should it be ~in the middle? If so, should I take it back to dealer and ask that they move T-belt by one tooth in correct direction, then re-do timing, idle adj.? Anything else? > Jim Beam: Check IACV when hot. Check codes. Haven't done the IACV check yet (will try tomorrow). Presumably dealer saw no other codes other than orig. IACV problem? I don't have code- checking equip. Thanks guys |
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