'92 Civic turns over/will not start
 

My daughters '92 Civic 1.5L (automatic trans.) turns over, but will not
start. It was towed to a shop where they say everything on the ignition
checks-out (Coil, ICM (igniter), Main Relay, etc...). They believe the
problem is the computer, however, they will not order one to try it out. I
have to tow it to someone else (i.e the dealer) to have further diagnosis
done. Is there anything they or I could be over looking.

Thanks

Re: '92 Civic turns over/will not start
 

Redwood wrote:
>
> My daughters '92 Civic 1.5L (automatic trans.) turns over, but will not
> start. It was towed to a shop where they say everything on the ignition
> checks-out (Coil, ICM (igniter), Main Relay, etc...). They believe the
> problem is the computer, however, they will not order one to try it out. I
> have to tow it to someone else (i.e the dealer) to have further diagnosis
> done. Is there anything they or I could be over looking.
>

Does the car have spark? You can easily check it with a tool such as
http://tinyurl.com/kg1a.

Eric

Re: '92 Civic turns over/will not start
 

Redwood wrote:
>
> My daughters '92 Civic 1.5L (automatic trans.) turns over, but will not
> start. It was towed to a shop where they say everything on the ignition
> checks-out (Coil, ICM (igniter), Main Relay, etc...). They believe the
> problem is the computer, however, they will not order one to try it out. I
> have to tow it to someone else (i.e the dealer) to have further diagnosis
> done. Is there anything they or I could be over looking.
>

Does the car have spark? You can easily check it with a tool such as
http://tinyurl.com/kg1a.

Eric

Re: '92 Civic turns over/will not start
 

Redwood wrote:
>
> My daughters '92 Civic 1.5L (automatic trans.) turns over, but will not
> start. It was towed to a shop where they say everything on the ignition
> checks-out (Coil, ICM (igniter), Main Relay, etc...). They believe the
> problem is the computer, however, they will not order one to try it out. I
> have to tow it to someone else (i.e the dealer) to have further diagnosis
> done. Is there anything they or I could be over looking.
>

Does the car have spark? You can easily check it with a tool such as
http://tinyurl.com/kg1a.

Eric

Re: '92 Civic turns over/will not start
 

On 10/11/03 1:42 PM, in article
jaYhb.6767$av5.3080@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.n et, "Redwood"
<mhollandsprint@earthlink.net> wrote:

> My daughters '92 Civic 1.5L (automatic trans.) turns over, but will not
> start. It was towed to a shop where they say everything on the ignition
> checks-out (Coil, ICM (igniter), Main Relay, etc...). They believe the
> problem is the computer, however, they will not order one to try it out. I
> have to tow it to someone else (i.e the dealer) to have further diagnosis
> done. Is there anything they or I could be over looking.
>
> Thanks
>
>
>

Are they saying that everything checks out, but there is no spark?

Did they check that the electric fuel pump works and verify that it is
delivering fuel to the engine?

It is reasonable that they would not order a computer just to check it out
unless you agree to pay for it whether it fixes the problem or not.
Otherwise if that doesn't fix it, they would be stuck with an expensive,
unique part and/or a disgruntled customer.

It seems obvious that they are not familiar with or properly equipped to
diagnose your Civic. A lot of places would bleed your wallet dry even
though they don't know how to fix it. You should thank them for not cleaning
out your bankbook and take it somewhere else.

Re: '92 Civic turns over/will not start
 

On 10/11/03 1:42 PM, in article
jaYhb.6767$av5.3080@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.n et, "Redwood"
<mhollandsprint@earthlink.net> wrote:

> My daughters '92 Civic 1.5L (automatic trans.) turns over, but will not
> start. It was towed to a shop where they say everything on the ignition
> checks-out (Coil, ICM (igniter), Main Relay, etc...). They believe the
> problem is the computer, however, they will not order one to try it out. I
> have to tow it to someone else (i.e the dealer) to have further diagnosis
> done. Is there anything they or I could be over looking.
>
> Thanks
>
>
>

Are they saying that everything checks out, but there is no spark?

Did they check that the electric fuel pump works and verify that it is
delivering fuel to the engine?

It is reasonable that they would not order a computer just to check it out
unless you agree to pay for it whether it fixes the problem or not.
Otherwise if that doesn't fix it, they would be stuck with an expensive,
unique part and/or a disgruntled customer.

It seems obvious that they are not familiar with or properly equipped to
diagnose your Civic. A lot of places would bleed your wallet dry even
though they don't know how to fix it. You should thank them for not cleaning
out your bankbook and take it somewhere else.

Re: '92 Civic turns over/will not start
 

On 10/11/03 1:42 PM, in article
jaYhb.6767$av5.3080@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.n et, "Redwood"
<mhollandsprint@earthlink.net> wrote:

> My daughters '92 Civic 1.5L (automatic trans.) turns over, but will not
> start. It was towed to a shop where they say everything on the ignition
> checks-out (Coil, ICM (igniter), Main Relay, etc...). They believe the
> problem is the computer, however, they will not order one to try it out. I
> have to tow it to someone else (i.e the dealer) to have further diagnosis
> done. Is there anything they or I could be over looking.
>
> Thanks
>
>
>

Are they saying that everything checks out, but there is no spark?

Did they check that the electric fuel pump works and verify that it is
delivering fuel to the engine?

It is reasonable that they would not order a computer just to check it out
unless you agree to pay for it whether it fixes the problem or not.
Otherwise if that doesn't fix it, they would be stuck with an expensive,
unique part and/or a disgruntled customer.

It seems obvious that they are not familiar with or properly equipped to
diagnose your Civic. A lot of places would bleed your wallet dry even
though they don't know how to fix it. You should thank them for not cleaning
out your bankbook and take it somewhere else.

Re: '92 Civic turns over/will not start
 

"E. Meyer" <e.meyerNOSPAM@ieee.org> wrote in message
news:BBADF48E.1CCC0%e.meyerNOSPAM@ieee.org...
> On 10/11/03 1:42 PM, in article
> jaYhb.6767$av5.3080@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.n et, "Redwood"
> <mhollandsprint@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > My daughters '92 Civic 1.5L (automatic trans.) turns over, but will not
> > start. It was towed to a shop where they say everything on the ignition
> > checks-out (Coil, ICM (igniter), Main Relay, etc...). They believe the
> > problem is the computer, however, they will not order one to try it out.
I
> > have to tow it to someone else (i.e the dealer) to have further
diagnosis
> > done. Is there anything they or I could be over looking.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> >
> >
>
> Are they saying that everything checks out, but there is no spark?
>
> Did they check that the electric fuel pump works and verify that it is
> delivering fuel to the engine?
>
> It is reasonable that they would not order a computer just to check it out
> unless you agree to pay for it whether it fixes the problem or not.
> Otherwise if that doesn't fix it, they would be stuck with an expensive,
> unique part and/or a disgruntled customer.
>
> It seems obvious that they are not familiar with or properly equipped to
> diagnose your Civic. A lot of places would bleed your wallet dry even
> though they don't know how to fix it. You should thank them for not
cleaning
> out your bankbook and take it somewhere else.
>
>
Yes, they checked everything that they knew except the computer. It is
getting fuel, but no spark. They replaced the distributer two weeks ago
after the same no start condition. They suspected the reman distributer (it
has a 90 warranty) may have gone bad, but after trying 3 more remans and
tracing through the main relay they gave up. I'm only out the tow bill this
time. They only charge a diagnosis fee if they can figure it out. I now
have to tow it to a different shop. I know a mechanic that specilizes in
electrical problems. Thats were it will go next.

Thanks

Re: '92 Civic turns over/will not start
 

"E. Meyer" <e.meyerNOSPAM@ieee.org> wrote in message
news:BBADF48E.1CCC0%e.meyerNOSPAM@ieee.org...
> On 10/11/03 1:42 PM, in article
> jaYhb.6767$av5.3080@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.n et, "Redwood"
> <mhollandsprint@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > My daughters '92 Civic 1.5L (automatic trans.) turns over, but will not
> > start. It was towed to a shop where they say everything on the ignition
> > checks-out (Coil, ICM (igniter), Main Relay, etc...). They believe the
> > problem is the computer, however, they will not order one to try it out.
I
> > have to tow it to someone else (i.e the dealer) to have further
diagnosis
> > done. Is there anything they or I could be over looking.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> >
> >
>
> Are they saying that everything checks out, but there is no spark?
>
> Did they check that the electric fuel pump works and verify that it is
> delivering fuel to the engine?
>
> It is reasonable that they would not order a computer just to check it out
> unless you agree to pay for it whether it fixes the problem or not.
> Otherwise if that doesn't fix it, they would be stuck with an expensive,
> unique part and/or a disgruntled customer.
>
> It seems obvious that they are not familiar with or properly equipped to
> diagnose your Civic. A lot of places would bleed your wallet dry even
> though they don't know how to fix it. You should thank them for not
cleaning
> out your bankbook and take it somewhere else.
>
>
Yes, they checked everything that they knew except the computer. It is
getting fuel, but no spark. They replaced the distributer two weeks ago
after the same no start condition. They suspected the reman distributer (it
has a 90 warranty) may have gone bad, but after trying 3 more remans and
tracing through the main relay they gave up. I'm only out the tow bill this
time. They only charge a diagnosis fee if they can figure it out. I now
have to tow it to a different shop. I know a mechanic that specilizes in
electrical problems. Thats were it will go next.

Thanks

Re: '92 Civic turns over/will not start
 

"E. Meyer" <e.meyerNOSPAM@ieee.org> wrote in message
news:BBADF48E.1CCC0%e.meyerNOSPAM@ieee.org...
> On 10/11/03 1:42 PM, in article
> jaYhb.6767$av5.3080@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.n et, "Redwood"
> <mhollandsprint@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > My daughters '92 Civic 1.5L (automatic trans.) turns over, but will not
> > start. It was towed to a shop where they say everything on the ignition
> > checks-out (Coil, ICM (igniter), Main Relay, etc...). They believe the
> > problem is the computer, however, they will not order one to try it out.
I
> > have to tow it to someone else (i.e the dealer) to have further
diagnosis
> > done. Is there anything they or I could be over looking.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> >
> >
>
> Are they saying that everything checks out, but there is no spark?
>
> Did they check that the electric fuel pump works and verify that it is
> delivering fuel to the engine?
>
> It is reasonable that they would not order a computer just to check it out
> unless you agree to pay for it whether it fixes the problem or not.
> Otherwise if that doesn't fix it, they would be stuck with an expensive,
> unique part and/or a disgruntled customer.
>
> It seems obvious that they are not familiar with or properly equipped to
> diagnose your Civic. A lot of places would bleed your wallet dry even
> though they don't know how to fix it. You should thank them for not
cleaning
> out your bankbook and take it somewhere else.
>
>
Yes, they checked everything that they knew except the computer. It is
getting fuel, but no spark. They replaced the distributer two weeks ago
after the same no start condition. They suspected the reman distributer (it
has a 90 warranty) may have gone bad, but after trying 3 more remans and
tracing through the main relay they gave up. I'm only out the tow bill this
time. They only charge a diagnosis fee if they can figure it out. I now
have to tow it to a different shop. I know a mechanic that specilizes in
electrical problems. Thats were it will go next.

Thanks

Re: '92 Civic turns over/will not start
 

Over the years there have been a few posts in this NG about failed
"igniters" or Ignition Control Modules (ECM) on that generation Civic.
This is a US$ 75 part (don't know where you are located), as opposed to
the > US$ 600 for the ECU. I know your shop said the igniter was OK, but
they could be wrong.

You can do a rudimentary check of the ECU by checking the signal on the
YEL/GRN wire to the distributor/coil assembly. This is the signal from
the ECU to the ICM. The best way to check is with an oscilloscope, which
most people do not keep around the house. The second best is an old
analog voltmeter (the needle kind). Connect the scope or voltmeter
between ground and the YEL/GRN wire. (do not disconnect anything, I
sometimes use a sowing needle probe inside the connectors if my scope /
voltmeter probes are not sharp enough). When cranking the engine you
should see something close to a square wave on the scope, or see the
needle jumping back and forth on the voltmeter (set it to the 10V
setting). If you do see a square wave it means the ECU is probably OK.
If not you could have a bad ECU, bad TDC, CKP or CYP sensor (all three
are built into the distributor/coil assembly) or a bad connection to any
of the above.

If you do not have an analog multimeter, a digital will work too, it is
just harder to read and interpret in this case. Try the AC volts
setting. Not having tried this, I would expect a very unsteady reading
somewhere between 3 and 8 volts when everything is working.

Is the Check Engine light on?


Redwood wrote:
>
> "E. Meyer" <e.meyerNOSPAM@ieee.org> wrote in message
> news:BBADF48E.1CCC0%e.meyerNOSPAM@ieee.org...
> > On 10/11/03 1:42 PM, in article
> > jaYhb.6767$av5.3080@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.n et, "Redwood"
> > <mhollandsprint@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >
> > > My daughters '92 Civic 1.5L (automatic trans.) turns over, but will not
> > > start. It was towed to a shop where they say everything on the ignition
> > > checks-out (Coil, ICM (igniter), Main Relay, etc...). They believe the
> > > problem is the computer, however, they will not order one to try it out.
> I
> > > have to tow it to someone else (i.e the dealer) to have further
> diagnosis
> > > done. Is there anything they or I could be over looking.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Are they saying that everything checks out, but there is no spark?
> >
> > Did they check that the electric fuel pump works and verify that it is
> > delivering fuel to the engine?
> >
> > It is reasonable that they would not order a computer just to check it out
> > unless you agree to pay for it whether it fixes the problem or not.
> > Otherwise if that doesn't fix it, they would be stuck with an expensive,
> > unique part and/or a disgruntled customer.
> >
> > It seems obvious that they are not familiar with or properly equipped to
> > diagnose your Civic. A lot of places would bleed your wallet dry even
> > though they don't know how to fix it. You should thank them for not
> cleaning
> > out your bankbook and take it somewhere else.
> >
> >
> Yes, they checked everything that they knew except the computer. It is
> getting fuel, but no spark. They replaced the distributer two weeks ago
> after the same no start condition. They suspected the reman distributer (it
> has a 90 warranty) may have gone bad, but after trying 3 more remans and
> tracing through the main relay they gave up. I'm only out the tow bill this
> time. They only charge a diagnosis fee if they can figure it out. I now
> have to tow it to a different shop. I know a mechanic that specilizes in
> electrical problems. Thats were it will go next.
>
> Thanks

Re: '92 Civic turns over/will not start
 

Over the years there have been a few posts in this NG about failed
"igniters" or Ignition Control Modules (ECM) on that generation Civic.
This is a US$ 75 part (don't know where you are located), as opposed to
the > US$ 600 for the ECU. I know your shop said the igniter was OK, but
they could be wrong.

You can do a rudimentary check of the ECU by checking the signal on the
YEL/GRN wire to the distributor/coil assembly. This is the signal from
the ECU to the ICM. The best way to check is with an oscilloscope, which
most people do not keep around the house. The second best is an old
analog voltmeter (the needle kind). Connect the scope or voltmeter
between ground and the YEL/GRN wire. (do not disconnect anything, I
sometimes use a sowing needle probe inside the connectors if my scope /
voltmeter probes are not sharp enough). When cranking the engine you
should see something close to a square wave on the scope, or see the
needle jumping back and forth on the voltmeter (set it to the 10V
setting). If you do see a square wave it means the ECU is probably OK.
If not you could have a bad ECU, bad TDC, CKP or CYP sensor (all three
are built into the distributor/coil assembly) or a bad connection to any
of the above.

If you do not have an analog multimeter, a digital will work too, it is
just harder to read and interpret in this case. Try the AC volts
setting. Not having tried this, I would expect a very unsteady reading
somewhere between 3 and 8 volts when everything is working.

Is the Check Engine light on?


Redwood wrote:
>
> "E. Meyer" <e.meyerNOSPAM@ieee.org> wrote in message
> news:BBADF48E.1CCC0%e.meyerNOSPAM@ieee.org...
> > On 10/11/03 1:42 PM, in article
> > jaYhb.6767$av5.3080@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.n et, "Redwood"
> > <mhollandsprint@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >
> > > My daughters '92 Civic 1.5L (automatic trans.) turns over, but will not
> > > start. It was towed to a shop where they say everything on the ignition
> > > checks-out (Coil, ICM (igniter), Main Relay, etc...). They believe the
> > > problem is the computer, however, they will not order one to try it out.
> I
> > > have to tow it to someone else (i.e the dealer) to have further
> diagnosis
> > > done. Is there anything they or I could be over looking.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Are they saying that everything checks out, but there is no spark?
> >
> > Did they check that the electric fuel pump works and verify that it is
> > delivering fuel to the engine?
> >
> > It is reasonable that they would not order a computer just to check it out
> > unless you agree to pay for it whether it fixes the problem or not.
> > Otherwise if that doesn't fix it, they would be stuck with an expensive,
> > unique part and/or a disgruntled customer.
> >
> > It seems obvious that they are not familiar with or properly equipped to
> > diagnose your Civic. A lot of places would bleed your wallet dry even
> > though they don't know how to fix it. You should thank them for not
> cleaning
> > out your bankbook and take it somewhere else.
> >
> >
> Yes, they checked everything that they knew except the computer. It is
> getting fuel, but no spark. They replaced the distributer two weeks ago
> after the same no start condition. They suspected the reman distributer (it
> has a 90 warranty) may have gone bad, but after trying 3 more remans and
> tracing through the main relay they gave up. I'm only out the tow bill this
> time. They only charge a diagnosis fee if they can figure it out. I now
> have to tow it to a different shop. I know a mechanic that specilizes in
> electrical problems. Thats were it will go next.
>
> Thanks

Re: '92 Civic turns over/will not start
 

Over the years there have been a few posts in this NG about failed
"igniters" or Ignition Control Modules (ECM) on that generation Civic.
This is a US$ 75 part (don't know where you are located), as opposed to
the > US$ 600 for the ECU. I know your shop said the igniter was OK, but
they could be wrong.

You can do a rudimentary check of the ECU by checking the signal on the
YEL/GRN wire to the distributor/coil assembly. This is the signal from
the ECU to the ICM. The best way to check is with an oscilloscope, which
most people do not keep around the house. The second best is an old
analog voltmeter (the needle kind). Connect the scope or voltmeter
between ground and the YEL/GRN wire. (do not disconnect anything, I
sometimes use a sowing needle probe inside the connectors if my scope /
voltmeter probes are not sharp enough). When cranking the engine you
should see something close to a square wave on the scope, or see the
needle jumping back and forth on the voltmeter (set it to the 10V
setting). If you do see a square wave it means the ECU is probably OK.
If not you could have a bad ECU, bad TDC, CKP or CYP sensor (all three
are built into the distributor/coil assembly) or a bad connection to any
of the above.

If you do not have an analog multimeter, a digital will work too, it is
just harder to read and interpret in this case. Try the AC volts
setting. Not having tried this, I would expect a very unsteady reading
somewhere between 3 and 8 volts when everything is working.

Is the Check Engine light on?


Redwood wrote:
>
> "E. Meyer" <e.meyerNOSPAM@ieee.org> wrote in message
> news:BBADF48E.1CCC0%e.meyerNOSPAM@ieee.org...
> > On 10/11/03 1:42 PM, in article
> > jaYhb.6767$av5.3080@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.n et, "Redwood"
> > <mhollandsprint@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >
> > > My daughters '92 Civic 1.5L (automatic trans.) turns over, but will not
> > > start. It was towed to a shop where they say everything on the ignition
> > > checks-out (Coil, ICM (igniter), Main Relay, etc...). They believe the
> > > problem is the computer, however, they will not order one to try it out.
> I
> > > have to tow it to someone else (i.e the dealer) to have further
> diagnosis
> > > done. Is there anything they or I could be over looking.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Are they saying that everything checks out, but there is no spark?
> >
> > Did they check that the electric fuel pump works and verify that it is
> > delivering fuel to the engine?
> >
> > It is reasonable that they would not order a computer just to check it out
> > unless you agree to pay for it whether it fixes the problem or not.
> > Otherwise if that doesn't fix it, they would be stuck with an expensive,
> > unique part and/or a disgruntled customer.
> >
> > It seems obvious that they are not familiar with or properly equipped to
> > diagnose your Civic. A lot of places would bleed your wallet dry even
> > though they don't know how to fix it. You should thank them for not
> cleaning
> > out your bankbook and take it somewhere else.
> >
> >
> Yes, they checked everything that they knew except the computer. It is
> getting fuel, but no spark. They replaced the distributer two weeks ago
> after the same no start condition. They suspected the reman distributer (it
> has a 90 warranty) may have gone bad, but after trying 3 more remans and
> tracing through the main relay they gave up. I'm only out the tow bill this
> time. They only charge a diagnosis fee if they can figure it out. I now
> have to tow it to a different shop. I know a mechanic that specilizes in
> electrical problems. Thats were it will go next.
>
> Thanks

Re: '92 Civic turns over/will not start
 

Redwood wrote:
>
> My daughters '92 Civic 1.5L (automatic trans.) turns over, but will not
> start. It was towed to a shop where they say everything on the ignition
> checks-out (Coil, ICM (igniter), Main Relay, etc...). They believe the
> problem is the computer, however, they will not order one to try it out. I
> have to tow it to someone else (i.e the dealer) to have further diagnosis
> done. Is there anything they or I could be over looking.
>
> Thanks

---------------

Redwood,

I'd suggest you read the description of how the 'lamp test' is done
(it's in the owner's manual). While you're watching the lamp test,
listen to the fuel pump run. It might even run for one elephant, two
elephant, three elephants. If you don't hear it run at all, there's a
problem with the main relay OR the fuel pump.

Do a search for MAIN RELAY in this group if you're not sure.

You failed to tell us when, how, or at what mileage (or temperature) the
problem happened with your daughter's car.

Maybe you should have it towed to a good 3rd party Honda service shop ?

'Curly'

----------------

To REPLY: If there are a couple of underscores in my return address,
you must remove them to reply directly . . . . . . Thanks.

Regarding stage performances: When everyone else has finished playing,
you should not play any notes you have left over. -

Re: '92 Civic turns over/will not start
 

Redwood wrote:
>
> My daughters '92 Civic 1.5L (automatic trans.) turns over, but will not
> start. It was towed to a shop where they say everything on the ignition
> checks-out (Coil, ICM (igniter), Main Relay, etc...). They believe the
> problem is the computer, however, they will not order one to try it out. I
> have to tow it to someone else (i.e the dealer) to have further diagnosis
> done. Is there anything they or I could be over looking.
>
> Thanks

---------------

Redwood,

I'd suggest you read the description of how the 'lamp test' is done
(it's in the owner's manual). While you're watching the lamp test,
listen to the fuel pump run. It might even run for one elephant, two
elephant, three elephants. If you don't hear it run at all, there's a
problem with the main relay OR the fuel pump.

Do a search for MAIN RELAY in this group if you're not sure.

You failed to tell us when, how, or at what mileage (or temperature) the
problem happened with your daughter's car.

Maybe you should have it towed to a good 3rd party Honda service shop ?

'Curly'

----------------

To REPLY: If there are a couple of underscores in my return address,
you must remove them to reply directly . . . . . . Thanks.

Regarding stage performances: When everyone else has finished playing,
you should not play any notes you have left over. -