Thanks everyone
 

I appreciate all your responses. I had the relay changed on Fri--the
garage didn't charge me labour partly because they felt badly about
putting in what appears to be an unnecessary ignitor unit, and likely
because it wasn't an onerous job.

I know I'm going to be anxious for the next while since I was on pins
and needles all summer for the last two yrs. It looks like the weather
is going to be milder this week so maybe my confidence will build up.

Kathy


kathleen williamson wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
> I'm resorting to asking for suggestions from cyberspace as I've asked
> everyone else I can, and no one seems to know what's wrong with my car,
> including the mechanics. I've given up dealing with my local Honda
> dealership because I think they gouged me for yrs and performed many
> unnecessary "repairs" that weren't a problem when I went in. They
> couldn't find anything wrong with it, and now the honest mechanics
> around the corner are stumped as well.
>
> As a recap, I have a 92 Honda Accord station wagon with 310,000km and an
> EFI system.
> So here it goes:
>
> --in warmer weather, there is a tendency for my Honda to have problems
> firing up. Frosty, as I've named my car, has an EFI system and not a
> carburetor.
>
> --after starting up, the engine just won't catch, ie the tachometer goes
> up, stutters, and then drops down to 0 rpms, stalling. The engine
> simply fails to fully turn over, .
>
> --this never happens on the first start up of the day. It could happen
> once or more during the day, or not at all. When the engine won't turn
> over, I might have to try 7 times before it finally fires up.
> Eventually it always starts up. If I don't let some time pass after it
> won't fire up, and try too soon afterwards, when I try again, I get a
> sound like it's flooded, so I need to wait at least 1 min between attempts.
>
> --nothing comes up in diagnostics. And of course, Frosty never acts up
> when I take it in.
> --the mechanics have looked at the wires, loose connections, coils,
> delay in the timing in the electronic ignition, adding fuel injector
> cleaner, etc. I wonder if there's a problem with the fuel injector or
> fuel pump. A number of yrs ago, my fuel tank was replaced, and the car
> has never been the same. Something makes me think, some other part near
> the tank was "injured" at that time, and needs to be replaced. My
> mechanics are so honest that they don't want to replace anything for
> fear it's not what's broken. How refreshing. I'm sure I would have had
> 2 new parts had I gone to my local Honda dealership...(just in case you
> think I'm bashing Honda, I'm not. I would buy a Honda again and again,
> but I don't trust the service division in the small city I live in, and
> it''s the only dealership we have. They couldn't find anything wrong
> with my car when they had the chance either).
>
> --last week, the injector unit was replaced. After filming the start up
> problems with a digital camera so my mechanics could see it rather than
> imagine what I described, they felt this made the most sense. I ok'd
> the repair so I can't blame them. They seem really dejected at not
> being able to identify the problem.
> --it seems to be related to engine temperature, which could be
> aggravated by the outside temps. I don't experience this in colder
> weather. It did flare up in Mar after hibernating over the winter months.
>
> --oddly enough, in cold weather, I have just as weird a symptom of
> another problem. Instead of stalling after turning over, my engine revs
> and revs like the choke is stuck when in Park. Unfortunately the car
> has an EFI system. The engine justs vroom, vrooms, without my foot
> being on the pedal. Very odd. It happens sporadically just like when
> the car has problems firing up in warmer weather. The only way to stop
> this is to shift it into gear. Hitting the gas pedal with my foot does
> nothing.
>
> So does anyone out there have any ideas what's going on with my car? I
> love it, and want to keep Frosty on the road. But unless I get this
> problem solved and sorted out, I won't be able to rely on my car.
>
> Thanks for any suggestions you might have.
> Please note that I've disguised my email address due to spam problems.
> If you post to this NG would you mind contacting me at my work address
> as well? I may not get a chance to check the NG each day, but I read
> every email that is sent to me at work. Thanks.
>
> kwilliamson@city.peterborough.on.ca
>
>

Thanks everyone
 

I appreciate all your responses. I had the relay changed on Fri--the
garage didn't charge me labour partly because they felt badly about
putting in what appears to be an unnecessary ignitor unit, and likely
because it wasn't an onerous job.

I know I'm going to be anxious for the next while since I was on pins
and needles all summer for the last two yrs. It looks like the weather
is going to be milder this week so maybe my confidence will build up.

Kathy


kathleen williamson wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
> I'm resorting to asking for suggestions from cyberspace as I've asked
> everyone else I can, and no one seems to know what's wrong with my car,
> including the mechanics. I've given up dealing with my local Honda
> dealership because I think they gouged me for yrs and performed many
> unnecessary "repairs" that weren't a problem when I went in. They
> couldn't find anything wrong with it, and now the honest mechanics
> around the corner are stumped as well.
>
> As a recap, I have a 92 Honda Accord station wagon with 310,000km and an
> EFI system.
> So here it goes:
>
> --in warmer weather, there is a tendency for my Honda to have problems
> firing up. Frosty, as I've named my car, has an EFI system and not a
> carburetor.
>
> --after starting up, the engine just won't catch, ie the tachometer goes
> up, stutters, and then drops down to 0 rpms, stalling. The engine
> simply fails to fully turn over, .
>
> --this never happens on the first start up of the day. It could happen
> once or more during the day, or not at all. When the engine won't turn
> over, I might have to try 7 times before it finally fires up.
> Eventually it always starts up. If I don't let some time pass after it
> won't fire up, and try too soon afterwards, when I try again, I get a
> sound like it's flooded, so I need to wait at least 1 min between attempts.
>
> --nothing comes up in diagnostics. And of course, Frosty never acts up
> when I take it in.
> --the mechanics have looked at the wires, loose connections, coils,
> delay in the timing in the electronic ignition, adding fuel injector
> cleaner, etc. I wonder if there's a problem with the fuel injector or
> fuel pump. A number of yrs ago, my fuel tank was replaced, and the car
> has never been the same. Something makes me think, some other part near
> the tank was "injured" at that time, and needs to be replaced. My
> mechanics are so honest that they don't want to replace anything for
> fear it's not what's broken. How refreshing. I'm sure I would have had
> 2 new parts had I gone to my local Honda dealership...(just in case you
> think I'm bashing Honda, I'm not. I would buy a Honda again and again,
> but I don't trust the service division in the small city I live in, and
> it''s the only dealership we have. They couldn't find anything wrong
> with my car when they had the chance either).
>
> --last week, the injector unit was replaced. After filming the start up
> problems with a digital camera so my mechanics could see it rather than
> imagine what I described, they felt this made the most sense. I ok'd
> the repair so I can't blame them. They seem really dejected at not
> being able to identify the problem.
> --it seems to be related to engine temperature, which could be
> aggravated by the outside temps. I don't experience this in colder
> weather. It did flare up in Mar after hibernating over the winter months.
>
> --oddly enough, in cold weather, I have just as weird a symptom of
> another problem. Instead of stalling after turning over, my engine revs
> and revs like the choke is stuck when in Park. Unfortunately the car
> has an EFI system. The engine justs vroom, vrooms, without my foot
> being on the pedal. Very odd. It happens sporadically just like when
> the car has problems firing up in warmer weather. The only way to stop
> this is to shift it into gear. Hitting the gas pedal with my foot does
> nothing.
>
> So does anyone out there have any ideas what's going on with my car? I
> love it, and want to keep Frosty on the road. But unless I get this
> problem solved and sorted out, I won't be able to rely on my car.
>
> Thanks for any suggestions you might have.
> Please note that I've disguised my email address due to spam problems.
> If you post to this NG would you mind contacting me at my work address
> as well? I may not get a chance to check the NG each day, but I read
> every email that is sent to me at work. Thanks.
>
> kwilliamson@city.peterborough.on.ca
>
>

Re: Thanks everyone
 

Had you ever had the ignitor replaced before?

They don't last longer than maybe seven years.

If you never had it replaced before, then for your reference, you are
probably ahead overall financially and car-trouble wise at this point.

"kathleen williamson" <kamandorefusesrefuse@sympatico.ca> wrote
> I appreciate all your responses. I had the relay changed on Fri--the
> garage didn't charge me labour partly because they felt badly about
> putting in what appears to be an unnecessary ignitor unit, and likely
> because it wasn't an onerous job.
>
> I know I'm going to be anxious for the next while since I was on pins
> and needles all summer for the last two yrs. It looks like the weather
> is going to be milder this week so maybe my confidence will build up.
>
> Kathy
>
>
> kathleen williamson wrote:
> > Hello everyone,
> >
> > I'm resorting to asking for suggestions from cyberspace as I've asked
> > everyone else I can, and no one seems to know what's wrong with my car,
> > including the mechanics. I've given up dealing with my local Honda
> > dealership because I think they gouged me for yrs and performed many
> > unnecessary "repairs" that weren't a problem when I went in. They
> > couldn't find anything wrong with it, and now the honest mechanics
> > around the corner are stumped as well.
> >
> > As a recap, I have a 92 Honda Accord station wagon with 310,000km and an
> > EFI system.
> > So here it goes:
> >
> > --in warmer weather, there is a tendency for my Honda to have problems
> > firing up. Frosty, as I've named my car, has an EFI system and not a
> > carburetor.
> >
> > --after starting up, the engine just won't catch, ie the tachometer goes
> > up, stutters, and then drops down to 0 rpms, stalling. The engine
> > simply fails to fully turn over, .
> >
> > --this never happens on the first start up of the day. It could happen
> > once or more during the day, or not at all. When the engine won't turn
> > over, I might have to try 7 times before it finally fires up.
> > Eventually it always starts up. If I don't let some time pass after it
> > won't fire up, and try too soon afterwards, when I try again, I get a
> > sound like it's flooded, so I need to wait at least 1 min between
attempts.
> >
> > --nothing comes up in diagnostics. And of course, Frosty never acts up
> > when I take it in.
> > --the mechanics have looked at the wires, loose connections, coils,
> > delay in the timing in the electronic ignition, adding fuel injector
> > cleaner, etc. I wonder if there's a problem with the fuel injector or
> > fuel pump. A number of yrs ago, my fuel tank was replaced, and the car
> > has never been the same. Something makes me think, some other part near
> > the tank was "injured" at that time, and needs to be replaced. My
> > mechanics are so honest that they don't want to replace anything for
> > fear it's not what's broken. How refreshing. I'm sure I would have had
> > 2 new parts had I gone to my local Honda dealership...(just in case you
> > think I'm bashing Honda, I'm not. I would buy a Honda again and again,
> > but I don't trust the service division in the small city I live in, and
> > it''s the only dealership we have. They couldn't find anything wrong
> > with my car when they had the chance either).
> >
> > --last week, the injector unit was replaced. After filming the start up
> > problems with a digital camera so my mechanics could see it rather than
> > imagine what I described, they felt this made the most sense. I ok'd
> > the repair so I can't blame them. They seem really dejected at not
> > being able to identify the problem.
> > --it seems to be related to engine temperature, which could be
> > aggravated by the outside temps. I don't experience this in colder
> > weather. It did flare up in Mar after hibernating over the winter
months.
> >
> > --oddly enough, in cold weather, I have just as weird a symptom of
> > another problem. Instead of stalling after turning over, my engine revs
> > and revs like the choke is stuck when in Park. Unfortunately the car
> > has an EFI system. The engine justs vroom, vrooms, without my foot
> > being on the pedal. Very odd. It happens sporadically just like when
> > the car has problems firing up in warmer weather. The only way to stop
> > this is to shift it into gear. Hitting the gas pedal with my foot does
> > nothing.
> >
> > So does anyone out there have any ideas what's going on with my car? I
> > love it, and want to keep Frosty on the road. But unless I get this
> > problem solved and sorted out, I won't be able to rely on my car.
> >
> > Thanks for any suggestions you might have.
> > Please note that I've disguised my email address due to spam problems.
> > If you post to this NG would you mind contacting me at my work address
> > as well? I may not get a chance to check the NG each day, but I read
> > every email that is sent to me at work. Thanks.
> >
> > kwilliamson@city.peterborough.on.ca
> >
> >

Re: Thanks everyone
 

Had you ever had the ignitor replaced before?

They don't last longer than maybe seven years.

If you never had it replaced before, then for your reference, you are
probably ahead overall financially and car-trouble wise at this point.

"kathleen williamson" <kamandorefusesrefuse@sympatico.ca> wrote
> I appreciate all your responses. I had the relay changed on Fri--the
> garage didn't charge me labour partly because they felt badly about
> putting in what appears to be an unnecessary ignitor unit, and likely
> because it wasn't an onerous job.
>
> I know I'm going to be anxious for the next while since I was on pins
> and needles all summer for the last two yrs. It looks like the weather
> is going to be milder this week so maybe my confidence will build up.
>
> Kathy
>
>
> kathleen williamson wrote:
> > Hello everyone,
> >
> > I'm resorting to asking for suggestions from cyberspace as I've asked
> > everyone else I can, and no one seems to know what's wrong with my car,
> > including the mechanics. I've given up dealing with my local Honda
> > dealership because I think they gouged me for yrs and performed many
> > unnecessary "repairs" that weren't a problem when I went in. They
> > couldn't find anything wrong with it, and now the honest mechanics
> > around the corner are stumped as well.
> >
> > As a recap, I have a 92 Honda Accord station wagon with 310,000km and an
> > EFI system.
> > So here it goes:
> >
> > --in warmer weather, there is a tendency for my Honda to have problems
> > firing up. Frosty, as I've named my car, has an EFI system and not a
> > carburetor.
> >
> > --after starting up, the engine just won't catch, ie the tachometer goes
> > up, stutters, and then drops down to 0 rpms, stalling. The engine
> > simply fails to fully turn over, .
> >
> > --this never happens on the first start up of the day. It could happen
> > once or more during the day, or not at all. When the engine won't turn
> > over, I might have to try 7 times before it finally fires up.
> > Eventually it always starts up. If I don't let some time pass after it
> > won't fire up, and try too soon afterwards, when I try again, I get a
> > sound like it's flooded, so I need to wait at least 1 min between
attempts.
> >
> > --nothing comes up in diagnostics. And of course, Frosty never acts up
> > when I take it in.
> > --the mechanics have looked at the wires, loose connections, coils,
> > delay in the timing in the electronic ignition, adding fuel injector
> > cleaner, etc. I wonder if there's a problem with the fuel injector or
> > fuel pump. A number of yrs ago, my fuel tank was replaced, and the car
> > has never been the same. Something makes me think, some other part near
> > the tank was "injured" at that time, and needs to be replaced. My
> > mechanics are so honest that they don't want to replace anything for
> > fear it's not what's broken. How refreshing. I'm sure I would have had
> > 2 new parts had I gone to my local Honda dealership...(just in case you
> > think I'm bashing Honda, I'm not. I would buy a Honda again and again,
> > but I don't trust the service division in the small city I live in, and
> > it''s the only dealership we have. They couldn't find anything wrong
> > with my car when they had the chance either).
> >
> > --last week, the injector unit was replaced. After filming the start up
> > problems with a digital camera so my mechanics could see it rather than
> > imagine what I described, they felt this made the most sense. I ok'd
> > the repair so I can't blame them. They seem really dejected at not
> > being able to identify the problem.
> > --it seems to be related to engine temperature, which could be
> > aggravated by the outside temps. I don't experience this in colder
> > weather. It did flare up in Mar after hibernating over the winter
months.
> >
> > --oddly enough, in cold weather, I have just as weird a symptom of
> > another problem. Instead of stalling after turning over, my engine revs
> > and revs like the choke is stuck when in Park. Unfortunately the car
> > has an EFI system. The engine justs vroom, vrooms, without my foot
> > being on the pedal. Very odd. It happens sporadically just like when
> > the car has problems firing up in warmer weather. The only way to stop
> > this is to shift it into gear. Hitting the gas pedal with my foot does
> > nothing.
> >
> > So does anyone out there have any ideas what's going on with my car? I
> > love it, and want to keep Frosty on the road. But unless I get this
> > problem solved and sorted out, I won't be able to rely on my car.
> >
> > Thanks for any suggestions you might have.
> > Please note that I've disguised my email address due to spam problems.
> > If you post to this NG would you mind contacting me at my work address
> > as well? I may not get a chance to check the NG each day, but I read
> > every email that is sent to me at work. Thanks.
> >
> > kwilliamson@city.peterborough.on.ca
> >
> >

Re: Thanks everyone
 

"kathleen williamson" <kamandorefusesrefuse@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:xQJLe.1595$7R.62637@news20.bellglobal.com...
>I appreciate all your responses. I had the relay changed on Fri--the
>garage didn't charge me labour partly because they felt badly about putting
>in what appears to be an unnecessary ignitor unit, and likely because it
>wasn't an onerous job.
>
On the brighter side, ignitors are a fairly common failure in Hondas of that
age. Replacing it may save you a dead car one day.

Mike

Re: Thanks everyone
 

"kathleen williamson" <kamandorefusesrefuse@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:xQJLe.1595$7R.62637@news20.bellglobal.com...
>I appreciate all your responses. I had the relay changed on Fri--the
>garage didn't charge me labour partly because they felt badly about putting
>in what appears to be an unnecessary ignitor unit, and likely because it
>wasn't an onerous job.
>
On the brighter side, ignitors are a fairly common failure in Hondas of that
age. Replacing it may save you a dead car one day.

Mike

Re: 92 Honda Accord station wagon with EFI start up problems
 

| I have a 92 Honda Accord station wagon
engine model # ?

| I need to wait at least 1 min between attempts.
Your battery takes time to recover : if you fit ( easiest is to dashboard
clock's connector ) a volt meter, you'll see your battery's voltage fall
& slowly rise.

| I don't experience this in colder weather.
Touch your battery's terminals & sidewalls after >1 hr use, are they
warm / hot ? Any copper sulphate ( white powder ) on the +ve terminal
?

Re: 92 Honda Accord station wagon with EFI start up problems
 

| I have a 92 Honda Accord station wagon
engine model # ?

| I need to wait at least 1 min between attempts.
Your battery takes time to recover : if you fit ( easiest is to dashboard
clock's connector ) a volt meter, you'll see your battery's voltage fall
& slowly rise.

| I don't experience this in colder weather.
Touch your battery's terminals & sidewalls after >1 hr use, are they
warm / hot ? Any copper sulphate ( white powder ) on the +ve terminal
?

Re: 92 Honda Accord station wagon with EFI start up problems
 

TE Cheah wrote:
> | I have a 92 Honda Accord station wagon
> engine model # ?
>
> | I need to wait at least 1 min between attempts.
> Your battery takes time to recover : if you fit ( easiest is to dashboard
> clock's connector ) a volt meter, you'll see your battery's voltage fall
> & slowly rise.

???

>
> | I don't experience this in colder weather.
> Touch your battery's terminals & sidewalls after >1 hr use, are they
> warm / hot ? Any copper sulphate ( white powder ) on the +ve terminal
> ?

copper sulfate is blue, not white.

Re: 92 Honda Accord station wagon with EFI start up problems
 

TE Cheah wrote:
> | I have a 92 Honda Accord station wagon
> engine model # ?
>
> | I need to wait at least 1 min between attempts.
> Your battery takes time to recover : if you fit ( easiest is to dashboard
> clock's connector ) a volt meter, you'll see your battery's voltage fall
> & slowly rise.

???

>
> | I don't experience this in colder weather.
> Touch your battery's terminals & sidewalls after >1 hr use, are they
> warm / hot ? Any copper sulphate ( white powder ) on the +ve terminal
> ?

copper sulfate is blue, not white.

Re: 92 Honda Accord station wagon with EFI start up problems
 

"jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message
news:IYKdnayhiJZhBZ3eRVn-hA@speakeasy.net...
> TE Cheah wrote:
>> | I have a 92 Honda Accord station wagon
>> engine model # ?
>>
>> | I need to wait at least 1 min between attempts.
>> Your battery takes time to recover : if you fit ( easiest is to dashboard
>> clock's connector ) a volt meter, you'll see your battery's voltage fall
>> & slowly rise.
>
> ???
>
>>
>> | I don't experience this in colder weather.
>> Touch your battery's terminals & sidewalls after >1 hr use, are they
>> warm / hot ? Any copper sulphate ( white powder ) on the +ve terminal
>> ?
>
> copper sulfate is blue, not white.
>
Since the post is lead and the clamps are usually lead, lead sulfate would
make more sense.

Mike

Re: 92 Honda Accord station wagon with EFI start up problems
 

"jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message
news:IYKdnayhiJZhBZ3eRVn-hA@speakeasy.net...
> TE Cheah wrote:
>> | I have a 92 Honda Accord station wagon
>> engine model # ?
>>
>> | I need to wait at least 1 min between attempts.
>> Your battery takes time to recover : if you fit ( easiest is to dashboard
>> clock's connector ) a volt meter, you'll see your battery's voltage fall
>> & slowly rise.
>
> ???
>
>>
>> | I don't experience this in colder weather.
>> Touch your battery's terminals & sidewalls after >1 hr use, are they
>> warm / hot ? Any copper sulphate ( white powder ) on the +ve terminal
>> ?
>
> copper sulfate is blue, not white.
>
Since the post is lead and the clamps are usually lead, lead sulfate would
make more sense.

Mike