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98 Accound burning oil
My son has a 98 Accord EX 4 cylinder that has always burned some oil
since we've bought it. It now has 132K miles, and has started going through more oil. It hasn't had much maintenance so I'm wondering if it might be something besides bad rings? It seems to run strong, it just burns oil. Is this common with Honda's? Any ideas? I notice a lot of black residue in the tail pipe, so I don't think it's leaking it.. although I suppose it could be doing both? Thanks for any advice. |
Re: 98 Accound burning oil
Steve L wrote:
> My son has a 98 Accord EX 4 cylinder that has always burned some oil > since we've bought it. > > It now has 132K miles, and has started going through more oil. > > It hasn't had much maintenance so I'm wondering if it might be > something besides bad rings? It seems to run strong, it just burns > oil. > > Is this common with Honda's? Any ideas? I notice a lot of black > residue in the tail pipe, so I don't think it's leaking it.. although > I suppose it could be doing both? > > Thanks for any advice. > > > Valve guide seals can cause oil burning. A compression test should give you a rough idea of the state of the rings. I see a lot of Hondas with soot on the bumper over the tailpipe, but it's usually those with fart can mufflers owned by kids who drive them hard all the time. |
Re: 98 Accord burning oil
"James Sweet" <jamessweet1@trashmail.net> wrote in message news:ggpghr$321$1@news.albasani.net... > Steve L wrote: >> My son has a 98 Accord EX 4 cylinder that has always burned some >> oil since we've bought it. >> >> It now has 132K miles, and has started going through more oil. >> > > Valve guide seals can cause oil burning. A compression test should > give you a rough idea of the state of the rings. I see a lot of > Hondas with soot on the bumper over the tailpipe, but it's usually > those with fart can mufflers owned by kids who drive them hard all > the time. Is replacing valve guide seals on a 4 cylinder Accord an expensive job? |
Re: 98 Accord burning oil
> Is replacing valve guide seals on a 4 cylinder Accord an expensive > job? It depends on how it's done. If the compression is good, you may be able to change the stem seals without removing the head. I've used a tool that connects to your air compressor to pressurize the cylinder and keep the valves in place while changing the seals. However, if the valve stems have any nicks, scratches or unusual markings on them, the head will require removal. A much bigger job. |
Re: 98 Accound burning oil
Steve L wrote:
> My son has a 98 Accord EX 4 cylinder that has always burned some oil > since we've bought it. > > It now has 132K miles, and has started going through more oil. > > It hasn't had much maintenance so I'm wondering if it might be > something besides bad rings? It seems to run strong, it just burns > oil. > > Is this common with Honda's? Any ideas? I notice a lot of black > residue in the tail pipe, so I don't think it's leaking it.. although > I suppose it could be doing both? > > Thanks for any advice. > > > What weight oil are you using? I've found that older Hondas burn little oil when I use 10W-30, and much more if I use 5W-30. (I know that it shouldn't happen, but it does, dammit.) I would expect even more if you use 0W-30. The Camrys, though, don't seem to do that. |
Re: 98 Accord burning oil
On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 15:53:30 -0500, Steve L wrote:
> "James Sweet" <jamessweet1@trashmail.net> wrote in message > news:ggpghr$321$1@news.albasani.net... >> Steve L wrote: >>> My son has a 98 Accord EX 4 cylinder that has always burned some oil >>> since we've bought it. >>> >>> It now has 132K miles, and has started going through more oil. >>> >>> > >> Valve guide seals can cause oil burning. A compression test should give >> you a rough idea of the state of the rings. I see a lot of Hondas with >> soot on the bumper over the tailpipe, but it's usually those with fart >> can mufflers owned by kids who drive them hard all the time. > > Is replacing valve guide seals on a 4 cylinder Accord an expensive job? it's highly unlikely oil seals are needed - that's more relevant to cars with seals that are submerged in oil in the head. hondas are not. regarding diagnosis, it sure would help us though if you said how much it's burning. |
Re: 98 Accord burning oil
"jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message news:C01Yk.25831$zf3.6370@fe06.news.easynews.com.. . > On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 15:53:30 -0500, Steve L wrote: > > > it's highly unlikely oil seals are needed - that's more relevant to > cars > with seals that are submerged in oil in the head. hondas are not. > > regarding diagnosis, it sure would help us though if you said how > much > it's burning. > Ah! Sorry.. he drove it over my house yesterday and it was down about 2.3 quarts, and it had been about 5K since last oil change. It's been going through oil for quite sometime and seems to run well in every other way. I had the timing belt changed and the front end bushings changed at 100K miles. I can't remember that it's ever been tuned up. Someone mentioned a PVC valve stuck open could cause issues like this? Engine looks clean, so it's not spewing oil out of the top of the engine. |
Re: 98 Accord burning oil
On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 20:56:39 -0500, Steve L wrote:
> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message > news:C01Yk.25831$zf3.6370@fe06.news.easynews.com.. . >> On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 15:53:30 -0500, Steve L wrote: >> >> >> it's highly unlikely oil seals are needed - that's more relevant to >> cars >> with seals that are submerged in oil in the head. hondas are not. >> >> regarding diagnosis, it sure would help us though if you said how much >> it's burning. >> >> > Ah! Sorry.. he drove it over my house yesterday and it was down about > 2.3 quarts, and it had been about 5K since last oil change. > > It's been going through oil for quite sometime and seems to run well in > every other way. I had the timing belt changed and the front end > bushings changed at 100K miles. I can't remember that it's ever been > tuned up. > > Someone mentioned a PVC valve stuck open could cause issues like this? > Engine looks clean, so it's not spewing oil out of the top of the > engine. yes, check [replace] the pcv valve. fyi, honda's spec is that if it's using less than 1 quart per thousand, the engine is ok. don't know if this will work for you, but fwiw, after the cleaning action of a couple of years using mobil 1 oil, my civic's oil consumption is down to <1/4 quart per 5k where it used to be 2+ quart per 5k. allegedly it can help remove carbon from the rings so they can seat and seal better again. |
Re: 98 Accound burning oil
"Leftie" <No@Thanks.net> wrote in message news:FS_Xk.898$st1.374@newsfe10.iad... >> > > What weight oil are you using? I've found that older Hondas burn > little oil when I use 10W-30, and much more if I use 5W-30. (I know > that it shouldn't happen, but it does, dammit.) I would expect even > more if you use 0W-30. The Camrys, though, don't seem to do that. I think he has been using 5W-30, getting it changed at a local service station. But, he's a grad student working toward his PhD in English Lit (which means = poor as church mouse) so he skimps on things like car maintenance until it's a problem, and then I usually step in and help out. Which is cool and I don't mind a bit.. I just didn't realize he was going through quite so much. To the previous poster, I use Mobil 1 in both my motorcycles.. 15-50W. I'm a big believer in it to the point I even run it in my lawn tractor and snow blower. I'll take the suggestion and start using M1 too if I can get this resolved. Thanks all for the suggestions. Steve L |
Re: 98 Accound burning oil
On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 21:46:56 -0500, Steve L wrote:
> "Leftie" <No@Thanks.net> wrote in message > news:FS_Xk.898$st1.374@newsfe10.iad... >>> >>> >> What weight oil are you using? I've found that older Hondas burn >> little oil when I use 10W-30, and much more if I use 5W-30. (I know >> that it shouldn't happen, but it does, dammit.) I would expect even >> more if you use 0W-30. The Camrys, though, don't seem to do that. > > I think he has been using 5W-30, getting it changed at a local service > station. But, he's a grad student working toward his PhD in English Lit > (which means = poor as church mouse) so he skimps on things like car > maintenance until it's a problem, and then I usually step in and help > out. Which is cool and I don't mind a bit.. I just didn't realize he was > going through quite so much. > > To the previous poster, I use Mobil 1 in both my motorcycles.. 15-50W. > I'm a big believer in it to the point I even run it in my lawn tractor > and snow blower. I'll take the suggestion and start using M1 too if I > can get this resolved. i don't think the oil on its own burns less per se, but the cleaning action -> less consumption thing seems plausible to me because initially, consumption was the same, but it's declined over time, and the old gunk in the engine has noticeably diminished. my main reason for using it though is better fuel economy and longer service interval. in my application, it'll do 15k between changes, easy. > > Thanks all for the suggestions. > > Steve L |
Re: 98 Accord burning oil
Iowna Uass wrote:
>> Is replacing valve guide seals on a 4 cylinder Accord an expensive >> job? > > It depends on how it's done. > If the compression is good, you may be able to change the stem seals without > removing the head. I've used a tool that connects to your air compressor to > pressurize the cylinder and keep the valves in place while changing the > seals. > However, if the valve stems have any nicks, scratches or unusual markings on > them, the head will require removal. A much bigger job. > > There's another trick I've used to do this, turn the crank so the cylinder being worked on is not at TDC, then feed a bit of rope in the spark plug hole letting it pile on the piston, then slowly turn the crank until the rope is squished gently up against the valves and it will keep them from falling into the cylinder. |
Re: 98 Accound burning oil
> I think he has been using 5W-30, getting it changed at a local service > station. But, he's a grad student working toward his PhD in English > Lit (which means = poor as church mouse) so he skimps on things like > car maintenance until it's a problem, and then I usually step in and > help out. Which is cool and I don't mind a bit.. I just didn't realize > he was going through quite so much. > > To the previous poster, I use Mobil 1 in both my motorcycles.. 15-50W. > I'm a big believer in it to the point I even run it in my lawn tractor > and snow blower. I'll take the suggestion and start using M1 too if I > can get this resolved. > > Thanks all for the suggestions. > > Steve L > > The problem with skimping on car maintenance is that $20 saved today can turn into $200 you have to spend next month. Oil changes are a whole lot cheaper than engine rebuilds. > |
Re: 98 Accound burning oil
Steve L wrote:
> My son has a 98 Accord EX 4 cylinder that has always burned some oil > since we've bought it. > > It now has 132K miles, and has started going through more oil. > > It hasn't had much maintenance so I'm wondering if it might be > something besides bad rings? It seems to run strong, it just burns > oil. > > Is this common with Honda's? Any ideas? I notice a lot of black > residue in the tail pipe, so I don't think it's leaking it.. although > I suppose it could be doing both? > > Thanks for any advice. > > > Hi, Bought new? Replaced PCV? Checked compression on each cylinder? Blow down test is even better. Tried heavier oil? |
Re: 98 Accord burning oil
Steve L wrote:
> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message > news:C01Yk.25831$zf3.6370@fe06.news.easynews.com.. . >> On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 15:53:30 -0500, Steve L wrote: >> >> >> it's highly unlikely oil seals are needed - that's more relevant to >> cars >> with seals that are submerged in oil in the head. hondas are not. >> >> regarding diagnosis, it sure would help us though if you said how >> much >> it's burning. >> > > Ah! Sorry.. he drove it over my house yesterday and it was down about > 2.3 quarts, and it had been about 5K since last oil change. > > It's been going through oil for quite sometime and seems to run well > in every other way. I had the timing belt changed and the front end > bushings changed at 100K miles. I can't remember that it's ever been > tuned up. > > Someone mentioned a PVC valve stuck open could cause issues like this? > Engine looks clean, so it's not spewing oil out of the top of the > engine. > > > > > There was a problem that was fairly common in the '70's, but not so much now: a main crank oil seal would get a piece missing, and slowly rotate. When the gap was oriented up, no oil leak. When it was down, the engine would dump oil at highway speeds. I had at least one Maverick do that. Unlikely but possible. |
Re: 98 Accound burning oil
"Tony Hwang" <dragon40@shaw.ca> wrote in message news:w36Yk.3839$5L3.2487@newsfe09.iad... > Steve L wrote: snipped >> >> > Hi, > Bought new? Replaced PCV? Checked compression on each cylinder? > Blow down test is even better. Tried heavier oil? Bought used about 5 years ago, it had 50K and was a one owner when we bought it. Haven't checked compression yet, but will this week. PVC hasn't been replaced but will do that quickly. Haven't tried heavier oil. I have a good mechanic looking at it this week, it needs a full going through. It hasn't been tuned up in at least 80K miles. I also noticed the rear end sounded noisy and I wonder if a bearing isn't going in one of the rear wheels, he had one fail a year or so back. So I'll get the car checked out stem to stern and then let you guys know about the oil mystery. I'm thinking it very well maybe the PVC as to my knowledge that has never been replaced. It has also lost a lot of paint on the hood and roof and trunk, so it looks lousy too. I'm thinking to pimp it out and get it painted and put some money in it, if I can fix this oil issue, because the interior is excellent (grey leather) and the body is in good shape except for the paint and it still rides well or seems to. In Massachusetts where I live if you buy a new/used car you not only have to pay sales tax, you have to pay excise tax each year and it is expensive if you buy a newer car. It just makes sense to put some money into a good car if you can get it to run reliably. |
Re: 98 Accound burning oil
"Steve L" <srl1215@comcast.net> wrote in message news:ggrh84$mot$1@news.motzarella.org... > > "Tony Hwang" <dragon40@shaw.ca> wrote in message > news:w36Yk.3839$5L3.2487@newsfe09.iad... >> Steve L wrote: > > snipped > >>> >>> >> Hi, >> Bought new? Replaced PCV? Checked compression on each cylinder? >> Blow down test is even better. Tried heavier oil? > > Bought used about 5 years ago, it had 50K and was a one owner when we > bought it. > > Haven't checked compression yet, but will this week. > > PVC hasn't been replaced but will do that quickly. > > Haven't tried heavier oil. > > I have a good mechanic looking at it this week, it needs a full going > through. It hasn't been tuned up in at least 80K miles. I also noticed the > rear end sounded noisy and I wonder if a bearing isn't going in one of the > rear wheels, he had one fail a year or so back. > > So I'll get the car checked out stem to stern and then let you guys know > about the oil mystery. I'm thinking it very well maybe the PVC as to my > knowledge that has never been replaced. > > It has also lost a lot of paint on the hood and roof and trunk, so it > looks lousy too. I'm thinking to pimp it out and get it painted and put > some money in it, if I can fix this oil issue, because the interior is > excellent (grey leather) and the body is in good shape except for the > paint and it still rides well or seems to. > > In Massachusetts where I live if you buy a new/used car you not only have > to pay sales tax, you have to pay excise tax each year and it is expensive > if you buy a newer car. It just makes sense to put some money into a good > car if you can get it to run reliably. > > A thought came to mind this morning. In the olden days quite a bit was made about the potential for compression rings to get glued into the piston grooves by deposits. Whether it actually happened or not I don't know, but on the chance that is related to the oil consumption you can try running a can of Seafoam engine cleaner (http://www.seafoamsales.com/motorTuneUp.htm available at NAPA) through the engine. My son has used it in his '94 Acura and is very happy with the improvement in drivability (half the can siphoned into the intake and half in the tank). Be warned - the engine produces clouds of white smoke for several minutes. Mike |
Re: 98 Accound burning oil
"Michael Pardee" <null@null.org> wrote in message news:fv6dnVmsq43N0KzUnZ2dnUVZ_gOdnZ2d@sedona.net.. . > > "Steve L" <srl1215@comcast.net> wrote in message > news:ggrh84$mot$1@news.motzarella.org... >> >> "Tony Hwang" <dragon40@shaw.ca> wrote in message >> news:w36Yk.3839$5L3.2487@newsfe09.iad... >>> Steve L wrote: >> >> snipped >> >>>> >>>> >>> Hi, >>> Bought new? Replaced PCV? Checked compression on each cylinder? >>> Blow down test is even better. Tried heavier oil? >> >> Bought used about 5 years ago, it had 50K and was a one owner when >> we bought it. >> >> Haven't checked compression yet, but will this week. >> >> PVC hasn't been replaced but will do that quickly. >> >> Haven't tried heavier oil. >> >> I have a good mechanic looking at it this week, it needs a full >> going through. It hasn't been tuned up in at least 80K miles. I >> also noticed the rear end sounded noisy and I wonder if a bearing >> isn't going in one of the rear wheels, he had one fail a year or so >> back. >> >> So I'll get the car checked out stem to stern and then let you guys >> know about the oil mystery. I'm thinking it very well maybe the PVC >> as to my knowledge that has never been replaced. >> >> It has also lost a lot of paint on the hood and roof and trunk, so >> it looks lousy too. I'm thinking to pimp it out and get it painted >> and put some money in it, if I can fix this oil issue, because the >> interior is excellent (grey leather) and the body is in good shape >> except for the paint and it still rides well or seems to. >> >> In Massachusetts where I live if you buy a new/used car you not >> only have to pay sales tax, you have to pay excise tax each year >> and it is expensive if you buy a newer car. It just makes sense to >> put some money into a good car if you can get it to run reliably. >> >> > A thought came to mind this morning. In the olden days quite a bit > was made about the potential for compression rings to get glued into > the piston grooves by deposits. Whether it actually happened or not > I don't know, but on the chance that is related to the oil > consumption you can try running a can of Seafoam engine cleaner > (http://www.seafoamsales.com/motorTuneUp.htm available at NAPA) > through the engine. My son has used it in his '94 Acura and is very > happy with the improvement in drivability (half the can siphoned > into the intake and half in the tank). Be warned - the engine > produces clouds of white smoke for several minutes. > > Mike > The Seafoam is a thought.. Before I do that it seems very reasonable to change the PCV valve. Could a failure in one of these really cause that much oil consumption? |
Re: 98 Accound burning oil
"Steve L" <srl1215@comcast.net> wrote
> Before I do that it seems very reasonable to change the > PCV valve. Could a failure in one of these really cause > that much oil consumption? Any oil drips under the car after sitting all night? Get under your car and look at the oil pan. Run a finger along its surfaces. Is it covered with oily grime? Same for right beneath the distributor. A malfunctioning PCV valve can overpressurise the crankcase leading to leaks at the oil pan gasket, where the dizzy shaft penetrates the cylinder head, etc. Get yourself an OEM PCV valve (not an aftermarket one) in any event. The PCV valve really should be changed at least every ten years, AFAIC. Should help fuel mileage, too. |
Re: 98 Accord burning oil
On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 22:46:06 -0800, James Sweet wrote:
> Iowna Uass wrote: >>> Is replacing valve guide seals on a 4 cylinder Accord an expensive >>> job? >> >> It depends on how it's done. >> If the compression is good, you may be able to change the stem seals >> without removing the head. I've used a tool that connects to your air >> compressor to pressurize the cylinder and keep the valves in place >> while changing the seals. >> However, if the valve stems have any nicks, scratches or unusual >> markings on them, the head will require removal. A much bigger job. >> >> >> > > There's another trick I've used to do this, turn the crank so the > cylinder being worked on is not at TDC, then feed a bit of rope in the > spark plug hole letting it pile on the piston, then slowly turn the > crank until the rope is squished gently up against the valves and it > will keep them from falling into the cylinder. eh??? to change a stem seal??? no dude, you don't need rope in the cylinder and no, you don't need to change the stem seals. |
Re: 98 Accound burning oil
On Sat, 29 Nov 2008 09:20:27 -0500, Steve L wrote:
> "Michael Pardee" <null@null.org> wrote in message > news:fv6dnVmsq43N0KzUnZ2dnUVZ_gOdnZ2d@sedona.net.. . >> >> "Steve L" <srl1215@comcast.net> wrote in message >> news:ggrh84$mot$1@news.motzarella.org... >>> >>> "Tony Hwang" <dragon40@shaw.ca> wrote in message >>> news:w36Yk.3839$5L3.2487@newsfe09.iad... >>>> Steve L wrote: >>> >>> snipped >>> >>> >>>>> >>>> Hi, >>>> Bought new? Replaced PCV? Checked compression on each cylinder? Blow >>>> down test is even better. Tried heavier oil? >>> >>> Bought used about 5 years ago, it had 50K and was a one owner when we >>> bought it. >>> >>> Haven't checked compression yet, but will this week. >>> >>> PVC hasn't been replaced but will do that quickly. >>> >>> Haven't tried heavier oil. >>> >>> I have a good mechanic looking at it this week, it needs a full going >>> through. It hasn't been tuned up in at least 80K miles. I also noticed >>> the rear end sounded noisy and I wonder if a bearing isn't going in >>> one of the rear wheels, he had one fail a year or so back. >>> >>> So I'll get the car checked out stem to stern and then let you guys >>> know about the oil mystery. I'm thinking it very well maybe the PVC as >>> to my knowledge that has never been replaced. >>> >>> It has also lost a lot of paint on the hood and roof and trunk, so it >>> looks lousy too. I'm thinking to pimp it out and get it painted and >>> put some money in it, if I can fix this oil issue, because the >>> interior is excellent (grey leather) and the body is in good shape >>> except for the paint and it still rides well or seems to. >>> >>> In Massachusetts where I live if you buy a new/used car you not only >>> have to pay sales tax, you have to pay excise tax each year and it is >>> expensive if you buy a newer car. It just makes sense to put some >>> money into a good car if you can get it to run reliably. >>> >>> >> A thought came to mind this morning. In the olden days quite a bit was >> made about the potential for compression rings to get glued into the >> piston grooves by deposits. Whether it actually happened or not I don't >> know, but on the chance that is related to the oil consumption you can >> try running a can of Seafoam engine cleaner >> (http://www.seafoamsales.com/motorTuneUp.htm available at NAPA) through >> the engine. My son has used it in his '94 Acura and is very happy with >> the improvement in drivability (half the can siphoned into the intake >> and half in the tank). Be warned - the engine produces clouds of white >> smoke for several minutes. >> >> Mike >> >> > The Seafoam is a thought.. > > Before I do that it seems very reasonable to change the PCV valve. Could > a failure in one of these really cause that much oil consumption? yes. it's supposed to maintain crank pressure in a certain range. if crank pressure is too low because of a malfunctioning valve, oil vapor gets sucked from the engine into the intake manifold and burned. |
Re: 98 Accord burning oil
Leftie wrote:
> Steve L wrote: >> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message >> news:C01Yk.25831$zf3.6370@fe06.news.easynews.com.. . >>> On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 15:53:30 -0500, Steve L wrote: >>> >>> >>> it's highly unlikely oil seals are needed - that's more relevant to cars >>> with seals that are submerged in oil in the head. hondas are not. >>> >>> regarding diagnosis, it sure would help us though if you said how much >>> it's burning. >>> >> >> Ah! Sorry.. he drove it over my house yesterday and it was down about >> 2.3 quarts, and it had been about 5K since last oil change. >> >> It's been going through oil for quite sometime and seems to run well >> in every other way. I had the timing belt changed and the front end >> bushings changed at 100K miles. I can't remember that it's ever been >> tuned up. >> >> Someone mentioned a PVC valve stuck open could cause issues like this? >> Engine looks clean, so it's not spewing oil out of the top of the engine. >> >> >> >> >> > > There was a problem that was fairly common in the '70's, but not so > much now: a main crank oil seal would get a piece missing, and slowly > rotate. When the gap was oriented up, no oil leak. When it was down, the > engine would dump oil at highway speeds. I had at least one Maverick do > that. Unlikely but possible. That sort of problem will coat the underside with oil. Automatic rust proofing :) I recently had a kink in a crankcase vent hose blow out a valve cover gasket and I ended up with oil droplets sprayed on the back bumper. Had to fix that in a hurry, environmental mess in addition to the car. |
Re: 98 Accound burning oil
Steve L wrote:
> "Tony Hwang" <dragon40@shaw.ca> wrote in message > news:w36Yk.3839$5L3.2487@newsfe09.iad... >> Steve L wrote: > > snipped > >>> >> Hi, >> Bought new? Replaced PCV? Checked compression on each cylinder? >> Blow down test is even better. Tried heavier oil? > > Bought used about 5 years ago, it had 50K and was a one owner when we > bought it. > > Haven't checked compression yet, but will this week. > > PVC hasn't been replaced but will do that quickly. > > Haven't tried heavier oil. > > I have a good mechanic looking at it this week, it needs a full going > through. It hasn't been tuned up in at least 80K miles. I also noticed > the rear end sounded noisy and I wonder if a bearing isn't going in > one of the rear wheels, he had one fail a year or so back. > > So I'll get the car checked out stem to stern and then let you guys > know about the oil mystery. I'm thinking it very well maybe the PVC as > to my knowledge that has never been replaced. > > It has also lost a lot of paint on the hood and roof and trunk, so it > looks lousy too. I'm thinking to pimp it out and get it painted and > put some money in it, if I can fix this oil issue, because the > interior is excellent (grey leather) and the body is in good shape > except for the paint and it still rides well or seems to. > > In Massachusetts where I live if you buy a new/used car you not only > have to pay sales tax, you have to pay excise tax each year and it is > expensive if you buy a newer car. It just makes sense to put some > money into a good car if you can get it to run reliably. > > Surprising the paint is bad on something that "new", and amusing to me anyway that '98 still sounds so new. As far as paint goes, you get what you pay for, don't be tempted by those $300 paint jobs you see advertised, I've seen the result of them and it'd look better left alone. |
Re: 98 Accound burning oil
"James Sweet" <jamessweet1@trashmail.net> wrote in message news:ggs1qi$phf$6@news.albasani.net... > Steve L wrote: >> "Tony Hwang" <dragon40@shaw.ca> wrote in message >> news:w36Yk.3839$5L3.2487@newsfe09.iad... >>> Steve L wrote: >> >> snipped >> >>>> >>> Hi, >>> Bought new? Replaced PCV? Checked compression on each cylinder? >>> Blow down test is even better. Tried heavier oil? >> >> Bought used about 5 years ago, it had 50K and was a one owner when we >> bought it. >> >> Haven't checked compression yet, but will this week. >> >> PVC hasn't been replaced but will do that quickly. >> >> Haven't tried heavier oil. >> >> I have a good mechanic looking at it this week, it needs a full going >> through. It hasn't been tuned up in at least 80K miles. I also noticed >> the rear end sounded noisy and I wonder if a bearing isn't going in one >> of the rear wheels, he had one fail a year or so back. >> >> So I'll get the car checked out stem to stern and then let you guys know >> about the oil mystery. I'm thinking it very well maybe the PVC as to my >> knowledge that has never been replaced. >> >> It has also lost a lot of paint on the hood and roof and trunk, so it >> looks lousy too. I'm thinking to pimp it out and get it painted and put >> some money in it, if I can fix this oil issue, because the interior is >> excellent (grey leather) and the body is in good shape except for the >> paint and it still rides well or seems to. >> >> In Massachusetts where I live if you buy a new/used car you not only have >> to pay sales tax, you have to pay excise tax each year and it is >> expensive if you buy a newer car. It just makes sense to put some money >> into a good car if you can get it to run reliably. >> >> > > Surprising the paint is bad on something that "new", and amusing to me > anyway that '98 still sounds so new. As far as paint goes, you get what > you pay for, don't be tempted by those $300 paint jobs you see advertised, > I've seen the result of them and it'd look better left alone. Sounds new to me too. I drive them till the wheels fall off. I'm driving a 1987 Ford van. My son is driving our 1989 Accord and my wife is driving our 1992 Seville. Just can't stand to make payments, I guess. |
Re: 98 Accound burning oil
Forrest wrote:
> "James Sweet" <jamessweet1@trashmail.net> wrote in message > news:ggs1qi$phf$6@news.albasani.net... >> Steve L wrote: >>> "Tony Hwang" <dragon40@shaw.ca> wrote in message >>> news:w36Yk.3839$5L3.2487@newsfe09.iad... >>>> Steve L wrote: >>> snipped >>> >>>> Hi, >>>> Bought new? Replaced PCV? Checked compression on each cylinder? >>>> Blow down test is even better. Tried heavier oil? >>> Bought used about 5 years ago, it had 50K and was a one owner when we >>> bought it. >>> >>> Haven't checked compression yet, but will this week. >>> >>> PVC hasn't been replaced but will do that quickly. >>> >>> Haven't tried heavier oil. >>> >>> I have a good mechanic looking at it this week, it needs a full going >>> through. It hasn't been tuned up in at least 80K miles. I also noticed >>> the rear end sounded noisy and I wonder if a bearing isn't going in one >>> of the rear wheels, he had one fail a year or so back. >>> >>> So I'll get the car checked out stem to stern and then let you guys know >>> about the oil mystery. I'm thinking it very well maybe the PVC as to my >>> knowledge that has never been replaced. >>> >>> It has also lost a lot of paint on the hood and roof and trunk, so it >>> looks lousy too. I'm thinking to pimp it out and get it painted and put >>> some money in it, if I can fix this oil issue, because the interior is >>> excellent (grey leather) and the body is in good shape except for the >>> paint and it still rides well or seems to. >>> >>> In Massachusetts where I live if you buy a new/used car you not only have >>> to pay sales tax, you have to pay excise tax each year and it is >>> expensive if you buy a newer car. It just makes sense to put some money >>> into a good car if you can get it to run reliably. >>> >>> >> Surprising the paint is bad on something that "new", and amusing to me >> anyway that '98 still sounds so new. As far as paint goes, you get what >> you pay for, don't be tempted by those $300 paint jobs you see advertised, >> I've seen the result of them and it'd look better left alone. > > Sounds new to me too. I drive them till the wheels fall off. I'm driving a > 1987 Ford van. My son is driving our 1989 Accord and my wife is driving our > 1992 Seville. Just can't stand to make payments, I guess. > > Yeah payments are something I've never had and never want. It's not that I can't afford them, it's just a matter of why? There's so many more useful things to spend disposable income on. |
First report back: 98 Accord burning oil
First words back from mechanic.
1. Looks like he hit something/sometime underneath and oil pan has big dent in it and it is leaking oil from that. (I didn't see that when it was parked in my driveway, but he could be right.) 2. Rear passenger wheel bearing needs replacing. 3. When all of this poor idle/stalling and check engine light happened he was low on oil, and it stayed on after we refilled it. 4. Mechanic would like to do a tune-up, replace wires, plugs ...what/anything else? The code says fuel problem. We talked about the PVC and the possibility that the throttle body could be filthy with oil and he said it was quite greasy and he would clean that up and see what happens. 5. Also needs front brakes. 6. Found a laid off body shop guy that will paint it for $1K is that about right? I'll report out as the saga goes down. All-in-all it looks like I'll get this thing pimped out for under $2K. Question, I notice that the aluminum wheels on this car are filthy red color (I assume from brake dust) allthe way around? Is that common, I haven' tried cleaning them up.. not sure they will clean up. I've seen wheels where there is a leak in a brake line and how they get the wheels filthy, this is almost like that. Ideas? Thanks for all the great info so far! Usenet, the gold mine the masses don't know about! |
Re: First report back: 98 Accord burning oil
"Steve L" <srl1215@comcast.net> wrote in news:gh4l0m$vhs$1
@news.motzarella.org: > First words back from mechanic. > > 1. Looks like he hit something/sometime underneath and oil pan has big > dent in it and it is leaking oil from that. (I didn't see that when it > was parked in my driveway, but he could be right.) > > 2. Rear passenger wheel bearing needs replacing. $600 for new OEM. Less for aftermarket, but that would last much shorter. > > 3. When all of this poor idle/stalling and check engine light happened > he was low on oil, and it stayed on after we refilled it. VERY VERY BAD!!!!! Have your grease monkey check out the /actual/ oil pressure with a proper gauge plumbed into the oil pressure port. If the pressure is truly low, sell the car or replace the engine (~$2,500). > > 4. Mechanic would like to do a tune-up, replace wires, plugs > ..what/anything else? The code says fuel problem. That covers about a dozen specific issues. You need to give the ACTUAL ALPHANUMERIC DTC (ERROR CODE) (and not whatever text description the monkey's reader gave him). You're looking for something like P017x, where the X is a number. > We talked about the > PVC and the possibility that the throttle body could be filthy with > oil "Possibility"? It takes all of a minute to pull the pipe off and see. Is the gas pedal a bit sticky in the morning? Oil in the throttle body is neglect and/or tons of blowby. > and he said it was quite greasy and he would clean that up and see > what happens. Plugged PCV would have no effect except to pump oil into the throttle body thru the breather pipe. Pressure builds up in the crankcase ONLY after the situation goes critical and the breather pipe gets plugged as well. And at that point your engine is already on its deathbed. > > 5. Also needs front brakes. What? Pads? Calipers? Lines? Fluid? What? Lotsa parts down there. > > 6. Found a laid off body shop guy that will paint it for $1K is that > about right? Sure. With bad prep and peeling paint in two years. Good luck. > > I'll report out as the saga goes down. All-in-all it looks like I'll > get this thing pimped out for under $2K. Not likely. > > Question, I notice that the aluminum wheels on this car are filthy red > color (I assume from brake dust) allthe way around? Is that common, Yep. That's rust from cheapo "long life" aftermarket brake pads with lots of steel wool in them. Might come off, but probably not all the way. Rust stains very badly. -- Tegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ |
Re: First report back: 98 Accord burning oil
Steve L wrote:
> First words back from mechanic. > > 1. Looks like he hit something/sometime underneath and oil pan has big > dent in it and it is leaking oil from that. (I didn't see that when it > was parked in my driveway, but he could be right.) > > 2. Rear passenger wheel bearing needs replacing. > > 3. When all of this poor idle/stalling and check engine light happened > he was low on oil, and it stayed on after we refilled it. > > That worries me, how low on oil did it get? I had someone mention once that the "low oil" light had been on for a few days, not realizing that the light was not low oil, but low (or no!) oil pressure. Needless to say that was the end of that motor. Doesn't take long with low or no oil pressure for some serious damage to be done, and that can easily lead to poor running. I would do a leakdown test to assess the condition of the cylinders and valves prior to dumping any real money into it. If it does turn out the motor is shot, a junkyard motor is a viable option, the car is old enough and common enough for there to be plenty of them out there. |
Re: First report back: 98 Accord burning oil
"Tegger" <invalid@invalid.inv> wrote in message news:Xns9B68CD6B219BAtegger@208.90.168.18... > "Steve L" <srl1215@comcast.net> wrote in news:gh4l0m$vhs$1 > @news.motzarella.org: > >> First words back from mechanic. >> >> 1. Looks like he hit something/sometime underneath and oil pan has >> big >> dent in it and it is leaking oil from that. (I didn't see that when >> it >> was parked in my driveway, but he could be right.) >> >> 2. Rear passenger wheel bearing needs replacing. > > > > $600 for new OEM. Less for aftermarket, but that would last much > shorter. $600 for a new oil pan? or rear wheel bearing, or combination of both? > > >> >> 3. When all of this poor idle/stalling and check engine light >> happened >> he was low on oil, and it stayed on after we refilled it. > > > > VERY VERY BAD!!!!! > > Have your grease monkey check out the /actual/ oil pressure with a > proper > gauge plumbed into the oil pressure port. If the pressure is truly > low, > sell the car or replace the engine (~$2,500). > > He's a certified Ford mechanic with excellent skills around most cars, just isn't geared up yet for all cars. He probably read the OBD-II DTC codes, but didn't have the chart that's in the PDF. The car was down a bit more than 2 quarts, although when I added that 2 qts it was past half way up between the hash marks on the dip stick. The oil pressure light never came on when he was driving, although when he stalled, the Check Engine light came on. Will ask to check oil pressure. > >> >> 4. Mechanic would like to do a tune-up, replace wires, plugs >> ..what/anything else? The code says fuel problem. > > Will get the code, I went to the FAQ and pulled the PDF for all the codes. > > > That covers about a dozen specific issues. You need to give the > ACTUAL > ALPHANUMERIC DTC (ERROR CODE) (and not whatever text description the > monkey's reader gave him). You're looking for something like P017x, > where > the X is a number. > > > >> We talked about the >> PVC and the possibility that the throttle body could be filthy with >> oil > > > > > "Possibility"? It takes all of a minute to pull the pipe off and > see. Is > the gas pedal a bit sticky in the morning? Oil in the throttle body > is > neglect and/or tons of blowby. > > > >> and he said it was quite greasy and he would clean that up and see >> what happens. > > > > > Plugged PCV would have no effect except to pump oil into the > throttle body > thru the breather pipe. Pressure builds up in the crankcase ONLY > after the > situation goes critical and the breather pipe gets plugged as well. > And at > that point your engine is already on its deathbed. > > > >> >> 5. Also needs front brakes. > > > > What? Pads? Calipers? Lines? Fluid? What? Lotsa parts down there. > > I think he meant just pads, he didn't mention calipers. > >> >> 6. Found a laid off body shop guy that will paint it for $1K is >> that >> about right? > > > > > Sure. With bad prep and peeling paint in two years. Good luck. > > So I should be thinking double that for the paint? I'll talk to him more about that. Also get another or maybe 2 quotes from decent body shops. > > >> >> I'll report out as the saga goes down. All-in-all it looks like >> I'll >> get this thing pimped out for under $2K. > > > Not likely. > Well, itwas a preliminary report. > >> >> Question, I notice that the aluminum wheels on this car are filthy >> red >> color (I assume from brake dust) allthe way around? Is that common, > > > > Yep. That's rust from cheapo "long life" aftermarket brake pads with > lots > of steel wool in them. Might come off, but probably not all the way. > Rust > stains very badly. > > > Didn't know that about aftermarket pads.. > -- > Tegger > > The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ > www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ |
Re: First report back: 98 Accord burning oil
> > So I should be thinking double that for the paint? I'll talk to him > more about that. Also get another or maybe 2 quotes from decent body > shops. > >> Last time I had a car painted was about 7 years ago. Quality base coat + clear coat, decent prep, some minor bodywork, it was about $2K at the time and that was having it done in Canada when the exchange rate was good. Cost depends heavily on how much prep is required as well as the type of paint you use. |
Re: First report back: 98 Accord burning oil
"James Sweet" <jamessweet1@trashmail.net> wrote in message news:gh4o9q$3f7$1@news.albasani.net... > Steve L wrote: >> First words back from mechanic. >> >> 1. Looks like he hit something/sometime underneath and oil pan has >> big dent in it and it is leaking oil from that. (I didn't see that >> when it was parked in my driveway, but he could be right.) >> >> 2. Rear passenger wheel bearing needs replacing. >> >> 3. When all of this poor idle/stalling and check engine light >> happened he was low on oil, and it stayed on after we refilled it. >> > > > That worries me, how low on oil did it get? I had someone mention > once that the "low oil" light had been on for a few days, not > realizing that the light was not low oil, but low (or no!) oil > pressure. Needless to say that was the end of that motor. Doesn't > take long with low or no oil pressure for some serious damage to be > done, and that can easily lead to poor running. I would do a > leakdown test to assess the condition of the cylinders and valves > prior to dumping any real money into it. If it does turn out the > motor is shot, a junkyard motor is a viable option, the car is old > enough and common enough for there to be plenty of them out there. The low oil light never came on, but I added 2 quarts to get it up to the hash marks on the stick. I checked to make sure light came on when I turned on the key, and it does, but I was worried that perhaps the actual sensor didn't work, even if the lamp worked. |
Re: First report back: 98 Accord burning oil
Steve L wrote:
> The low oil light never came on, but I added 2 quarts to get it up to > the hash marks on the stick. I checked to make sure light came on when > I turned on the key, and it does, but I was worried that perhaps the > actual sensor didn't work, even if the lamp worked. Have a lab analyze the oil. For 20+ bucks you can KNOW if the engine suffered unusual wear and tear. Be sure to include a description of the situation along with the oil sample. http://www.blackstone-labs.com/index.html |
Re: First report back: 98 Accord burning oil
"Steve L" <srl1215@comcast.net> wrote in news:gh4prd$a0k$1
@news.motzarella.org: > > "Tegger" <invalid@invalid.inv> wrote in message > news:Xns9B68CD6B219BAtegger@208.90.168.18... >> "Steve L" <srl1215@comcast.net> wrote in news:gh4l0m$vhs$1 >> @news.motzarella.org: >> >>> First words back from mechanic. >>> >>> 1. Looks like he hit something/sometime underneath and oil pan has >>> big >>> dent in it and it is leaking oil from that. (I didn't see that when >>> it >>> was parked in my driveway, but he could be right.) >>> >>> 2. Rear passenger wheel bearing needs replacing. >> >> >> >> $600 for new OEM. Less for aftermarket, but that would last much >> shorter. > > > $600 for a new oil pan? or rear wheel bearing, or combination of both? That's just the rear bearing (if OEM). <snip> > > The car was down a bit more than 2 quarts, although when I added that > 2 qts it was past half way up between the hash marks on the dip stick. > The oil pressure light never came on when he was driving, although > when he stalled, the Check Engine light came on. Will ask to check oil > pressure. You originally said the oil light stayed on even after refilling, which is different from this later statement. I'm now confused. <snip> >> >> > > So I should be thinking double that for the paint? I'll talk to him > more about that. Also get another or maybe 2 quotes from decent body > shops. At LEAST a couple of grand for a GOOD paint job with PROPER prep. And it will help tremendously if you pull off as much trim/molding/bumpers/lights/etc yourself as you can before you bring the car in. You want a first-class job? Pay for it, and help them help you. <snip> >> >> Yep. That's rust from cheapo "long life" aftermarket brake pads with >> lots >> of steel wool in them. Might come off, but probably not all the way. >> Rust >> stains very badly. >> >> >> > > Didn't know that about aftermarket pads. Sorry, but aftermarket usually really isn't very good. There's a good reason why it's cheaper than OEM Honda. -- Tegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ |
Re: First report back: 98 Accord burning oil
I have a 97 CRV 119K. 4 banger. Doesn't leak or burn any oil or
other fluids, runs great, averaging 23mpg. All I ever do is regular maintenance, my dad originally did all oil changes and everything, I just let the dealer do it (Honda of course) I love Honda. I had a 92 Dodge Caravan and it burned and spit oil and leaked all over. This is why I buy Honda not GM, or any domestic vehicle for that matter. And I'll tell people that to that get maid that I drive Honda! |
Re: First report back: 98 Accord burning oil
bigjcw1023@gmail.com wrote:
> I have a 97 CRV 119K. 4 banger. Doesn't leak or burn any oil or > other fluids, runs great, averaging 23mpg. All I ever do is regular > maintenance, my dad originally did all oil changes and everything, I > just let the dealer do it (Honda of course) I love Honda. I had a 92 > Dodge Caravan and it burned and spit oil and leaked all over. This > is why I buy Honda not GM, or any domestic vehicle for that matter. I have a '95 Civic EX that doesn't burn oil, with just under 150k on it. The previous owner had to have the transmission replaced (and happily, did the clutch and CV boots as well) and it has minor glitches, but it's still remarkably reliable. > And I'll tell people that to that get maid that I drive Honda! Um, please don't...? |
Re: First report back: 98 Accord burning oil
"Tegger" <invalid@invalid.inv> wrote in message news:Xns9B6AD6D9E5A65tegger@208.90.168.18... > "Steve L" <srl1215@comcast.net> wrote in news:gh4prd$a0k$1 > @news.motzarella.org: > >> >> "Tegger" <invalid@invalid.inv> wrote in message >> news:Xns9B68CD6B219BAtegger@208.90.168.18... >>> "Steve L" <srl1215@comcast.net> wrote in news:gh4l0m$vhs$1 >>> @news.motzarella.org: >>> > >> >> The car was down a bit more than 2 quarts, although when I added >> that >> 2 qts it was past half way up between the hash marks on the dip >> stick. >> The oil pressure light never came on when he was driving, although >> when he stalled, the Check Engine light came on. Will ask to check >> oil >> pressure. > > > > You originally said the oil light stayed on even after refilling, > which > is different from this later statement. I'm now confused. > > NO, the OIL light never came on. The check engine light came on and the car started to stall when coming to stops, idling at about 750rpm. The oil was down more than two quarts but the oil light never came on.. (although when you turn the key to ACC it does light, so as I said, maybe the sensor for oil doesn't work?) The mechanic checked the code and it was a 1259. He hears something knocking in the lower end. He checked his Alldata manuals and it all points to not good things. He's suggesting I consider dumping the car. It's got 130K miles. Totally failed paint, needs brakes and a rear wheel bearing. I did do a timing belt and water pump at 100K. I'm thinking it might be time to bite the bullett on this one. |
Re: First report back: 98 Accord burning oil
"Steve L" <srl1215@comcast.net> wrote
> NO, the OIL light never came on. The check engine light > came on and the car started to stall when coming to stops, > idling at about 750rpm. The oil was down more than two > quarts but the oil light never came on.. (although when > you turn the key to ACC it does light, so as I said, maybe > the sensor for oil doesn't work?) I bet the sensor is fine. The car will run quite low on oil and still not turn on the low oil light. Anecdote: A mechanic installed my valve cover gasket incorrectly in 2002, and oil leaked everywhere for the next few weeks. When I finally noticed it and checked the oil level, I do not think I could see any oil on the dipstick. I never got a low oil pressure light. I cleaned it all up; correctly installed a new gasket; added the right amount of oil. Car drives great today. > The mechanic checked the code and it was a 1259. Plenty of reports at www.honda-tech.com say this is a direct result of the low oil level. I suspect you are working with a mechanic who simply is not hip on Hondas. > He hears something knocking in the lower end. He checked > his Alldata manuals and it all points to not good things. > He's suggesting I consider dumping the car. That new oil pan is going to cost you another $200 or so, I figure. > It's got 130K miles. Totally failed paint, needs brakes > and a rear wheel bearing. I did do a timing belt and water > pump at 100K. > > I'm thinking it might be time to bite the bullett on this > one. I think you should find an import mechanic and get a second opinion on the wheel bearing, alleged knocking, and code 1259. OTOH, all this diagnosis with a leaking oil pan is risky. |
Re: First report back: 98 Accord burning oil
"Steve L" <srl1215@comcast.net> wrote in news:ghc2g8$8vh$1
@news.motzarella.org: > > "Tegger" <invalid@invalid.inv> wrote in message > news:Xns9B6AD6D9E5A65tegger@208.90.168.18... >> >> >> You originally said the oil light stayed on even after refilling, >> which >> is different from this later statement. I'm now confused. >> >> > > NO, the OIL light never came on. The check engine light came on Yeah, you're absolutely right. I misread the original post. > and > the car started to stall when coming to stops, idling at about 750rpm. Isn't 750 correct for warm idle in Drive? > The oil was down more than two quarts but the oil light never came > on.. (although when you turn the key to ACC it does light, so as I > said, maybe the sensor for oil doesn't work?) The oil light should come on when the key is turned to ON (II), not ACC (I). If it comes on at "II", then the oil pressure sensor is working correctly. The light will come on during engine operation when oil pressure drops below (IIRC) 6 psi. > > The mechanic checked the code and it was a 1259. VTEC system malfunction. I have no experience with VTEC, but I'm told that neglected oil changes play havoc with the VTEC system. > He hears something > knocking in the lower end. Bad engine bearings, probably. That low oil may have done more damage than you might think. Low oil level can cause momentary starvation, which eventually leads to scored main bearings. > He checked his Alldata manuals and it all > points to not good things. He's suggesting I consider dumping the car. > > It's got 130K miles. Totally failed paint, needs brakes and a rear > wheel bearing. I did do a timing belt and water pump at 100K. > > I'm thinking it might be time to bite the bullett on this one. > Possibly. -- Tegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ |
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