RS

I found a 1991 Civic hatchback that seems in good shape. I am thinking
aboiut buying it for my college age son. I have never owned a Honda auto and
know little about them.

Would this be a dependable vehicle - 163,000 miles, 5speed, good condition.

Thanks,

RS

jim beam

RS wrote:
> I found a 1991 Civic hatchback that seems in good shape. I am thinking
> aboiut buying it for my college age son. I have never owned a Honda auto and
> know little about them.
>
> Would this be a dependable vehicle - 163,000 miles, 5speed, good condition.
>
> Thanks,
>
> RS
>
>
people on this group regularly report mileages in the mid/high 300's.
this model civic is no exception. beware garage rip-off's for cars this
vintage, & you'll be fine. [i have a '90 with 230k, & it runs like a
champ.] consult tegger's faq's for answers to common problems.

last thing, i think this model civic is the finest honda ever made, so
i'm biased in my response.

jim beam

RS wrote:
> I found a 1991 Civic hatchback that seems in good shape. I am thinking
> aboiut buying it for my college age son. I have never owned a Honda auto and
> know little about them.
>
> Would this be a dependable vehicle - 163,000 miles, 5speed, good condition.
>
> Thanks,
>
> RS
>
>
people on this group regularly report mileages in the mid/high 300's.
this model civic is no exception. beware garage rip-off's for cars this
vintage, & you'll be fine. [i have a '90 with 230k, & it runs like a
champ.] consult tegger's faq's for answers to common problems.

last thing, i think this model civic is the finest honda ever made, so
i'm biased in my response.

TeGGer®

jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote in
news:CZ6dnek1GYJE6XHcRVn-ig@comcast.com:

> RS wrote:
>> I found a 1991 Civic hatchback that seems in good shape. I am
>> thinking aboiut buying it for my college age son. I have never owned
>> a Honda auto and know little about them.
>>
>> Would this be a dependable vehicle - 163,000 miles, 5speed, good
>> condition.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> RS
>>
>>
> people on this group regularly report mileages in the mid/high 300's.
> this model civic is no exception. beware garage rip-off's for cars
> this vintage, & you'll be fine. [i have a '90 with 230k, & it runs
> like a champ.] consult tegger's faq's for answers to common problems.
>
> last thing, i think this model civic is the finest honda ever made, so
> i'm biased in my response.
>
>


With regular oil changes, these engines will put on galactic mileages.

Piston slap common. Not a problem, just noisy. Lessens when car warms up.

Power steering pumps get very noisy with age and when it's cold out. The
colder the noisier. Not a problem either. Goes away when car warms up. ONLY
use genuine Honda PS fluid, NOTHING ELSE.

Head gaskets tend to fail about 200K even with good maintenance. $400-$600
to replace at garage.

Listen for rattling from the transmission. Bearings wear, which is
accelerated if oil is never changed or is allowed to run low. Noise will
eventually get very loud, like freight train. Good used tranny about $250 +
labor. Use Honda MTL fluid.

Make sure clutch has not been neglected or abused. If 1/4" or less exposed
thread above the adjusting nut when correctly adjusted, clutch is at the
end of its life. About $600 to replace at a garage.

Have an experienced mechanic check all front-end ball joints, including
those in steering. At 163K, they _will_ be worn. Lowers tend to seize
instead of work loose. When they seize, they break off, which is bad...and
scary. Ask me how I know...

Check outer CV joint boots for cracks. If cracked, replace boots or axles
post-haste before crack splits wide-open.

Brakes seize regularly and require frequent servicing to get max life out
of them.

Make sure the PCV system is clear. Neglected engines will sludge up and
start pumping oil into the intake. Check for oil in breather pipe.

Rust is a problem in northern areas, especially in hatch lid, rear quarter
panels, sills and roof at corners of windshield.

Water leaks common into passenger footwell. Caused by failed sealing at
cowl. You won't see this until a heavy rain, so take through a car wash a
couple of times to check, or drench with garden hose at base of windshield.
Time-consuming to fix, and causes rust in cowl. About $75 in parts.

Timing belt changes should NOT be neglected. Engine is "interference"
design, and valve damage is likely if belt breaks. If unsure of mileage,
replace it. $400 inc'l labor. Valve damage much more expensive to fix.

Make sure rad fan works properly. Make sure rear defroster works. Both give
trouble eventually.

--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

TeGGer®

jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote in
news:CZ6dnek1GYJE6XHcRVn-ig@comcast.com:

> RS wrote:
>> I found a 1991 Civic hatchback that seems in good shape. I am
>> thinking aboiut buying it for my college age son. I have never owned
>> a Honda auto and know little about them.
>>
>> Would this be a dependable vehicle - 163,000 miles, 5speed, good
>> condition.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> RS
>>
>>
> people on this group regularly report mileages in the mid/high 300's.
> this model civic is no exception. beware garage rip-off's for cars
> this vintage, & you'll be fine. [i have a '90 with 230k, & it runs
> like a champ.] consult tegger's faq's for answers to common problems.
>
> last thing, i think this model civic is the finest honda ever made, so
> i'm biased in my response.
>
>


With regular oil changes, these engines will put on galactic mileages.

Piston slap common. Not a problem, just noisy. Lessens when car warms up.

Power steering pumps get very noisy with age and when it's cold out. The
colder the noisier. Not a problem either. Goes away when car warms up. ONLY
use genuine Honda PS fluid, NOTHING ELSE.

Head gaskets tend to fail about 200K even with good maintenance. $400-$600
to replace at garage.

Listen for rattling from the transmission. Bearings wear, which is
accelerated if oil is never changed or is allowed to run low. Noise will
eventually get very loud, like freight train. Good used tranny about $250 +
labor. Use Honda MTL fluid.

Make sure clutch has not been neglected or abused. If 1/4" or less exposed
thread above the adjusting nut when correctly adjusted, clutch is at the
end of its life. About $600 to replace at a garage.

Have an experienced mechanic check all front-end ball joints, including
those in steering. At 163K, they _will_ be worn. Lowers tend to seize
instead of work loose. When they seize, they break off, which is bad...and
scary. Ask me how I know...

Check outer CV joint boots for cracks. If cracked, replace boots or axles
post-haste before crack splits wide-open.

Brakes seize regularly and require frequent servicing to get max life out
of them.

Make sure the PCV system is clear. Neglected engines will sludge up and
start pumping oil into the intake. Check for oil in breather pipe.

Rust is a problem in northern areas, especially in hatch lid, rear quarter
panels, sills and roof at corners of windshield.

Water leaks common into passenger footwell. Caused by failed sealing at
cowl. You won't see this until a heavy rain, so take through a car wash a
couple of times to check, or drench with garden hose at base of windshield.
Time-consuming to fix, and causes rust in cowl. About $75 in parts.

Timing belt changes should NOT be neglected. Engine is "interference"
design, and valve damage is likely if belt breaks. If unsure of mileage,
replace it. $400 inc'l labor. Valve damage much more expensive to fix.

Make sure rad fan works properly. Make sure rear defroster works. Both give
trouble eventually.

--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Michael Pardee

"TeGGer®" <tegger@istop.c0m> wrote in message
news:Xns95E1E070E774Fteggeratistop@207.14.113.17.. .
> jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote in
> news:CZ6dnek1GYJE6XHcRVn-ig@comcast.com:
>
>> RS wrote:
>>> I found a 1991 Civic hatchback that seems in good shape. I am
>>> thinking aboiut buying it for my college age son. I have never owned
>>> a Honda auto and know little about them.
>>>
>>> Would this be a dependable vehicle - 163,000 miles, 5speed, good
>>> condition.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> RS
>>>
>>>
>> people on this group regularly report mileages in the mid/high 300's.
>> this model civic is no exception. beware garage rip-off's for cars
>> this vintage, & you'll be fine. [i have a '90 with 230k, & it runs
>> like a champ.] consult tegger's faq's for answers to common problems.
>>
>> last thing, i think this model civic is the finest honda ever made, so
>> i'm biased in my response.
>>
>>
>
>
> With regular oil changes, these engines will put on galactic mileages.
>
> Piston slap common. Not a problem, just noisy. Lessens when car warms up.
>
> Power steering pumps get very noisy with age and when it's cold out. The
> colder the noisier. Not a problem either. Goes away when car warms up.
> ONLY
> use genuine Honda PS fluid, NOTHING ELSE.
>
> Head gaskets tend to fail about 200K even with good maintenance. $400-$600
> to replace at garage.
>
> Listen for rattling from the transmission. Bearings wear, which is
> accelerated if oil is never changed or is allowed to run low. Noise will
> eventually get very loud, like freight train. Good used tranny about $250
> +
> labor. Use Honda MTL fluid.
>
> Make sure clutch has not been neglected or abused. If 1/4" or less exposed
> thread above the adjusting nut when correctly adjusted, clutch is at the
> end of its life. About $600 to replace at a garage.
>
> Have an experienced mechanic check all front-end ball joints, including
> those in steering. At 163K, they _will_ be worn. Lowers tend to seize
> instead of work loose. When they seize, they break off, which is bad...and
> scary. Ask me how I know...
>
> Check outer CV joint boots for cracks. If cracked, replace boots or axles
> post-haste before crack splits wide-open.
>
> Brakes seize regularly and require frequent servicing to get max life out
> of them.
>
> Make sure the PCV system is clear. Neglected engines will sludge up and
> start pumping oil into the intake. Check for oil in breather pipe.
>
> Rust is a problem in northern areas, especially in hatch lid, rear quarter
> panels, sills and roof at corners of windshield.
>
> Water leaks common into passenger footwell. Caused by failed sealing at
> cowl. You won't see this until a heavy rain, so take through a car wash a
> couple of times to check, or drench with garden hose at base of
> windshield.
> Time-consuming to fix, and causes rust in cowl. About $75 in parts.
>
> Timing belt changes should NOT be neglected. Engine is "interference"
> design, and valve damage is likely if belt breaks. If unsure of mileage,
> replace it. $400 inc'l labor. Valve damage much more expensive to fix.
>
> Make sure rad fan works properly. Make sure rear defroster works. Both
> give
> trouble eventually.
>
> --
> TeGGeR®
>
> The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
> www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

My daughter has a '93 Accord LX, 210K miles, 2.2L 16V engine and auto
tranny. I had not heard of some of these concerns and wondered if I should
take action before she moves out later this year.

Does it have the ball joint issue, and do you recommend inspection or
preventive replacement of the lower ball joints? I have to replace a drive
axle soon, and can inspect one then, but how do I check the other for
galling?

Does the engine have the head gasket issue, and if so should I figure on
replacement at the next timing belt job?

(I bought the car 3 years ago at 165K miles, and it had the original timing
belt! The guy had been depending on Midas for his routine maintenance. The
brakes and exhaust system were in good shape. <8^} )

Eric

Michael Pardee wrote:
> >
> > Head gaskets tend to fail about 200K even with good maintenance.
> > $400-$600 to replace at garage.
>
> My daughter has a '93 Accord LX, 210K miles, 2.2L 16V engine and auto
> tranny. I had not heard of some of these concerns and wondered if I should
> take action before she moves out later this year.
>
> Does it have the ball joint issue, and do you recommend inspection or
> preventive replacement of the lower ball joints? I have to replace a drive
> axle soon, and can inspect one then, but how do I check the other for
> galling?
>
> Does the engine have the head gasket issue, and if so should I figure on
> replacement at the next timing belt job?
>

The issue that I've seen with head gaskets on this generation of Civics is
that they tend to leak oil on the back side of the engine right around where
the oil jet orifice is installed between the head and the block. I haven't
seen this problem with Accords, but that doesn't mean that it can't occur.
Get under the engine and check to make sure that all is dry in this area.
You may need to pull the oil filter off to make the junction between the
head the block easier to see. If so, then check it at the next oil change.

Eric

Eric

Michael Pardee wrote:
> >
> > Head gaskets tend to fail about 200K even with good maintenance.
> > $400-$600 to replace at garage.
>
> My daughter has a '93 Accord LX, 210K miles, 2.2L 16V engine and auto
> tranny. I had not heard of some of these concerns and wondered if I should
> take action before she moves out later this year.
>
> Does it have the ball joint issue, and do you recommend inspection or
> preventive replacement of the lower ball joints? I have to replace a drive
> axle soon, and can inspect one then, but how do I check the other for
> galling?
>
> Does the engine have the head gasket issue, and if so should I figure on
> replacement at the next timing belt job?
>

The issue that I've seen with head gaskets on this generation of Civics is
that they tend to leak oil on the back side of the engine right around where
the oil jet orifice is installed between the head and the block. I haven't
seen this problem with Accords, but that doesn't mean that it can't occur.
Get under the engine and check to make sure that all is dry in this area.
You may need to pull the oil filter off to make the junction between the
head the block easier to see. If so, then check it at the next oil change.

Eric

TeGGer®

"Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote in
news:dZSdnWFujZrCSXDcRVn-vA@sedona.net:


>
> Does it have the ball joint issue, and do you recommend inspection or
> preventive replacement of the lower ball joints? I have to replace a
> drive axle soon, and can inspect one then, but how do I check the
> other for galling?


The easiest way of telling whether one lower joint is seizing is to drive
the car. Get up to highway speed, then step moderately on the brake. If a
joint is seizing, the car will immediately dive momentarily to one side,
then straighten out again. The side the car dives to is the bad side, but
get BOTH replaced anyway.

http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/...int/index.html

After this occurrence at about 200K miles, I had all six ball joints
replaced with new OEM (including the two in the steering linkage, which
were also worn). Cost a pretty penny, but I'll probably never have to touch
them again.

My mechanic tells me it can be hard to tell if the ball joints are worn
when still installed on the car.



>
> Does the engine have the head gasket issue, and if so should I figure
> on replacement at the next timing belt job?



With the head gasket, replace the rad cap with a new OEM one now. Toyota
dealers up here sell the exact same 13lb (0.9 stamped on top) cap for half
the cost of Honda, about $15 for me. That should eliminate the cap as a
variable.

http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/top.jpg
http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/underside.jpg
Honda is on right, Toyota on left. The only difference is the yellow
sticker.

Then tell her to keep an eye on two things:
The temperature gauge in heavy traffic, and
check the coolant level in the reservoir every week.

If the temperature rises in heavy traffic (with the fans also turning on),
or the reservoir level suddenly gets two inches higher and does not go back
down again when the engine cools off, the gasket is suspect. As long as
these two things don't happen, she's fine.

If the car does start to overheat, tell her to rev the engine. If that
helps, the coolant level's low (possible head gasket). If revving does not
help, turn the heater on full blast, and if that works, it's probably a
fan, radiator or thermostat problem.


--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Michael Pardee

"TeGGer®" <tegger@istop.c0m> wrote in message
news:Xns95E35B62BD013teggeratistop@207.14.113.17.. .
> "Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote in
> news:dZSdnWFujZrCSXDcRVn-vA@sedona.net:
>
>
>>
>> Does it have the ball joint issue, and do you recommend inspection or
>> preventive replacement of the lower ball joints? I have to replace a
>> drive axle soon, and can inspect one then, but how do I check the
>> other for galling?
>
>
> The easiest way of telling whether one lower joint is seizing is to drive
> the car. Get up to highway speed, then step moderately on the brake. If a
> joint is seizing, the car will immediately dive momentarily to one side,
> then straighten out again. The side the car dives to is the bad side, but
> get BOTH replaced anyway.
>
> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/...int/index.html
>
> After this occurrence at about 200K miles, I had all six ball joints
> replaced with new OEM (including the two in the steering linkage, which
> were also worn). Cost a pretty penny, but I'll probably never have to
> touch
> them again.
>
> My mechanic tells me it can be hard to tell if the ball joints are worn
> when still installed on the car.
>
>
>
>>
>> Does the engine have the head gasket issue, and if so should I figure
>> on replacement at the next timing belt job?
>
>
>
> With the head gasket, replace the rad cap with a new OEM one now. Toyota
> dealers up here sell the exact same 13lb (0.9 stamped on top) cap for half
> the cost of Honda, about $15 for me. That should eliminate the cap as a
> variable.
>
> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/top.jpg
> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/underside.jpg
> Honda is on right, Toyota on left. The only difference is the yellow
> sticker.
>
> Then tell her to keep an eye on two things:
> The temperature gauge in heavy traffic, and
> check the coolant level in the reservoir every week.
>
> If the temperature rises in heavy traffic (with the fans also turning on),
> or the reservoir level suddenly gets two inches higher and does not go
> back
> down again when the engine cools off, the gasket is suspect. As long as
> these two things don't happen, she's fine.
>
> If the car does start to overheat, tell her to rev the engine. If that
> helps, the coolant level's low (possible head gasket). If revving does not
> help, turn the heater on full blast, and if that works, it's probably a
> fan, radiator or thermostat problem.
>
>
> --
> TeGGeR®
>
> The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
> www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Thanks, TeGGeR! I'll just keep an eye on these those things. We have a
coolant loss problem from a crack in the upper radiator tank - apparently it
is common for them to crack across the middle of the flat spot, and when I
laid a bead of JB Weld across it the bead cracked in the center too, telling
me the area is flexing.

Mike

Michael Pardee

"TeGGer®" <tegger@istop.c0m> wrote in message
news:Xns95E35B62BD013teggeratistop@207.14.113.17.. .
> "Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote in
> news:dZSdnWFujZrCSXDcRVn-vA@sedona.net:
>
>
>>
>> Does it have the ball joint issue, and do you recommend inspection or
>> preventive replacement of the lower ball joints? I have to replace a
>> drive axle soon, and can inspect one then, but how do I check the
>> other for galling?
>
>
> The easiest way of telling whether one lower joint is seizing is to drive
> the car. Get up to highway speed, then step moderately on the brake. If a
> joint is seizing, the car will immediately dive momentarily to one side,
> then straighten out again. The side the car dives to is the bad side, but
> get BOTH replaced anyway.
>
> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/...int/index.html
>
> After this occurrence at about 200K miles, I had all six ball joints
> replaced with new OEM (including the two in the steering linkage, which
> were also worn). Cost a pretty penny, but I'll probably never have to
> touch
> them again.
>
> My mechanic tells me it can be hard to tell if the ball joints are worn
> when still installed on the car.
>
>
>
>>
>> Does the engine have the head gasket issue, and if so should I figure
>> on replacement at the next timing belt job?
>
>
>
> With the head gasket, replace the rad cap with a new OEM one now. Toyota
> dealers up here sell the exact same 13lb (0.9 stamped on top) cap for half
> the cost of Honda, about $15 for me. That should eliminate the cap as a
> variable.
>
> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/top.jpg
> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/underside.jpg
> Honda is on right, Toyota on left. The only difference is the yellow
> sticker.
>
> Then tell her to keep an eye on two things:
> The temperature gauge in heavy traffic, and
> check the coolant level in the reservoir every week.
>
> If the temperature rises in heavy traffic (with the fans also turning on),
> or the reservoir level suddenly gets two inches higher and does not go
> back
> down again when the engine cools off, the gasket is suspect. As long as
> these two things don't happen, she's fine.
>
> If the car does start to overheat, tell her to rev the engine. If that
> helps, the coolant level's low (possible head gasket). If revving does not
> help, turn the heater on full blast, and if that works, it's probably a
> fan, radiator or thermostat problem.
>
>
> --
> TeGGeR®
>
> The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
> www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Thanks, TeGGeR! I'll just keep an eye on these those things. We have a
coolant loss problem from a crack in the upper radiator tank - apparently it
is common for them to crack across the middle of the flat spot, and when I
laid a bead of JB Weld across it the bead cracked in the center too, telling
me the area is flexing.

Mike