Alternator Brush Assembly Guidance?
 

Will people with experience with the alternator brush
assembly please examine the bottom-most photo on the site
below and tell me if I have correctly identified the "brush
holder insulator"?

http://home.earthlink.net/~honda.lioness/id14.html

I did an oil change Monday and decided to explore a little
while I was under there, in preparation for the big
pre-emptive, brush assembly changeout in the next year or
so. Unfortunately, moving from various drawings to the
actual alternator, and being in a hurry as it was getting
dark, I got confused and didn't actually put my fingers on
the two screws said to hold the brush assembly in place.

If one gets this far (end cover off, but alternator still
mounted), is it really a piece of cake? Looks like a
somewhat tough angle for getting any serious torque on the
two screws.

Re: Alternator Brush Assembly Guidance?
 

"Elle" <honda.lioness@earthlink.net> wrote in news:NCTKf.2701$VI6.2517@newsread1.news.pas.earthl ink.net:

> Will people with experience with the alternator brush
> assembly please examine the bottom-most photo on the site
> below and tell me if I have correctly identified the "brush
> holder insulator"?
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~honda.lioness/id14.html



Yes.

It's a soft silicone rubber. Mine was orange.
It's very easily torn, I discovered (oops), so you have
to be very careful pulling it out of its recess.

And I actually removed all the nuts from the underside
of the car. Access was too hard from up top in my car.

Two important notes when reassembling:
Sand ALL electrical connections bright before rejoining,
and DO NOT overtighten! You will break something!



>
> I did an oil change Monday and decided to explore a little
> while I was under there, in preparation for the big
> pre-emptive, brush assembly changeout in the next year or
> so. Unfortunately, moving from various drawings to the
> actual alternator, and being in a hurry as it was getting
> dark, I got confused and didn't actually put my fingers on
> the two screws said to hold the brush assembly in place.
>
> If one gets this far (end cover off, but alternator still
> mounted), is it really a piece of cake? Looks like a
> somewhat tough angle for getting any serious torque on the
> two screws.



It is. If the screws are rusty, it will be a struggle.
The best thing to use is a brand-new (stubby) Phillips
screwdriver. I say "new" because that way you're assured
of the best fit possible and the least chance of stripping.

Here's my short writeup after fixing mine in 2002:
<http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.makers.honda/browse_frm/thread/611d2083a2bb174c/f963e0cb2ba9d689?lnk=st&q=alternator+brush+group%3 Arec.autos.makers.honda+insubject%3Aintegra+insubj ect%3Aalternator+author%3Ategger&rnum=1&hl=en#f963 e0cb2ba9d689>

My brush fix lasted until last summer, when the stator and
commutators corroded together, requiring replacement of
the original alternator.


--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Re: Alternator Brush Assembly Guidance?
 

In article <NCTKf.2701$VI6.2517@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink. net>,
honda.lioness@earthlink.net says...
>
>
>Will people with experience with the alternator brush
>assembly please examine the bottom-most photo on the site
>below and tell me if I have correctly identified the "brush
>holder insulator"?
>
>http://home.earthlink.net/~honda.lioness/id14.html
>
>I did an oil change Monday and decided to explore a little
>while I was under there, in preparation for the big
>pre-emptive, brush assembly changeout in the next year or
>so. Unfortunately, moving from various drawings to the
>actual alternator, and being in a hurry as it was getting
>dark, I got confused and didn't actually put my fingers on
>the two screws said to hold the brush assembly in place.
>
>If one gets this far (end cover off, but alternator still
>mounted), is it really a piece of cake? Looks like a
>somewhat tough angle for getting any serious torque on the
>two screws.

This looks just like the alternator on an 88 accord I recently swapped out.
Yes, you have brush holder/insulator correctly identified. If you got this
far, getting the brushes out pas this point is very easy. Two screws and
the whole assembly comes out.
-------------
Alex

Re: Alternator Brush Assembly Guidance?
 

On 2006-02-22, Elle <honda.lioness@earthlink.net> wrote:
> below and tell me if I have correctly identified the "brush
> holder insulator"?


Yes, you have.

> If one gets this far (end cover off, but alternator still
> mounted), is it really a piece of cake?

In my opinion, no. But, mine is a civic hatchback with zero wiggle
room. I had to remove my alternator and that was hard enough. Also,
putting the new brushes assy back on can be tricky. You must slide
the spring loaded brushes back over the slip rings and the smaller
diameter between the two rings allows the innermost brush to push down
into the recess. Forcing the inner brush against the now larger
diameter of the inner slip ring may chip or break the brush. I used a
very small diameter spring steel rod (a very small dia drill bit would
also work nicely) layed over the slip rings to hold the brushes up in
the holder while sliding the brush assy back in place over the slip
rings. I then pulled the rod out which let the two brushes drop down
on the slip rings undamaged. This may be all but impossible to do
with the alternator still mounted. Also, you may have great
difficulty replacing the screws. One of the two screws holding the
brush assy is recessed and will be almost impossible to replace
without a phillips screw holder/driver. A magnetic screwdriver would
also work for this.

When you get your new brushes, get the whole brush holder assy. It
comes with a new brush holder insulator and makes the whole job so
much easier and quicker.

nb

Re: Alternator Brush Assembly Guidance?
 

Tegger, how many miles were on your 91 Integra when the
stator and commutator gave up?

Also, may I incorporate some of your remarks at the site I
threw together? I'll put them down as something like
"specific anecdotal experience" with this job.

Alex and Bob, I'd also like to incorporate some of your
remarks at the site, too. Okay?

"TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote
snip but comments noted
> My brush fix lasted until last summer, when the stator and
> commutators corroded together, requiring replacement of
> the original alternator.

Re: Alternator Brush Assembly Guidance?
 

On 2006-02-22, Elle <honda.lioness@earthlink.net> wrote:

> Alex and Bob, I'd also like to incorporate some of your
> remarks at the site, too. Okay?

Fine by me. Thanks for the great site.

nb

Re: Alternator Brush Assembly Guidance?
 

"Elle" <honda.lioness@earthlink.net> wrote in
news:J33Lf.4360$UN.2494@newsread2.news.pas.earthli nk.net:

> Tegger, how many miles were on your 91 Integra when the
> stator and commutator gave up?



About 240,000. Keep in mind the failure was was due only to corrosion. If I
lived in a place with better weather, I'd probably still be driving on that
alternator. It was charging fine right up to the end. The car sat for two
weeks while we were on vacation, which gave corrosion lots of time to close
the small gap that remained. If I hadn't let it sit, it may have taken
several more months to seize.

Also, I made a small error in my reply: It was the *sealing gasket* that
was orange silicone and fragile, not the brush holder. You have to
carefully remove the *sealing gasket* before the brush holder can be
removed. (It appears to have been removed in your photos).



>
> Also, may I incorporate some of your remarks at the site I
> threw together? I'll put them down as something like
> "specific anecdotal experience" with this job.


Go ahead.

At the time, I was going to take photos of the job, but the driveway was
wet and cold, and it was night-time and snowing. I just wanted to get it
over with.


--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Re: Alternator Brush Assembly Guidance?
 

notbob <notbob@nothome.com> wrote in news:27idndfQcsCQJ2HeRVn-
tg@comcast.com:

> On 2006-02-22, Elle <honda.lioness@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> below and tell me if I have correctly identified the "brush
>> holder insulator"?
>
>
> Yes, you have.
>
>> If one gets this far (end cover off, but alternator still
>> mounted), is it really a piece of cake?
>
> In my opinion, no. But, mine is a civic hatchback with zero wiggle
> room. I had to remove my alternator and that was hard enough. Also,
> putting the new brushes assy back on can be tricky. You must slide
> the spring loaded brushes back over the slip rings and the smaller
> diameter between the two rings allows the innermost brush to push down
> into the recess. Forcing the inner brush against the now larger
> diameter of the inner slip ring may chip or break the brush.



I had no trouble with that. As I recall, I just used a tiny flat-blade
screwdriver to help the brushes over the edge of the slip rings.



> I used a
> very small diameter spring steel rod (a very small dia drill bit would
> also work nicely) layed over the slip rings to hold the brushes up in
> the holder while sliding the brush assy back in place over the slip
> rings. I then pulled the rod out which let the two brushes drop down
> on the slip rings undamaged. This may be all but impossible to do
> with the alternator still mounted. Also, you may have great
> difficulty replacing the screws.



Again, I had no trouble, even doing it one-handed. using a new, well-
fitting stubby screwdriver is a big help. I just held the screw on to the
screwdriver with my fingers while guiding them into place.



> One of the two screws holding the
> brush assy is recessed and will be almost impossible to replace
> without a phillips screw holder/driver. A magnetic screwdriver would
> also work for this.
>
> When you get your new brushes, get the whole brush holder assy. It
> comes with a new brush holder insulator and makes the whole job so
> much easier and quicker.



Sure does. The brush holder is a great big heat sink. In retrospect, I
should have used a small butane torch when replacing my brushes instead of
an iron.



--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Re: Alternator Brush Assembly Guidance?
 

On 2006-02-22, TeGGeR® <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote:
> I had no trouble with that. As I recall, I just used a tiny flat-blade
> screwdriver to help the brushes over the edge of the slip rings.

Ah, but you used something, didn't you! Same problem, different
solution. ;)

> Again, I had no trouble, even doing it one-handed. using a new, well-
> fitting stubby screwdriver is a big help. I just held the screw on to the
> screwdriver with my fingers while guiding them into place.

Yeah, but I'm a big ol' sausage fingered klutz.

> Sure does. The brush holder is a great big heat sink. In retrospect, I
> should have used a small butane torch when replacing my brushes instead of
> an iron.

Plus, I wasn't in the mood to play "chase the spring". But, if one is
feeling all handyman-ish or on a really tight budget, $20 can be saved
by replacing just the brushes. The brushes alone are about $4-5 per
pair and the whole assy with new insulator is about $25.

My biggest problem was getting the damn alternator out. It was a
seriously tight press fit in the alternator bracket. After removing
the alternator bolt, the alternator had to be very forcefully pried
free from the bracket with a 18" pry bar. To remount it, I had to
grind about .020" material off the alternator.

nb

Re: Alternator Brush Assembly Guidance?
 

notbob <notbob@nothome.com> wrote in
news:14-dnSEme926dGHeRVn-iA@comcast.com:


>
> Plus, I wasn't in the mood to play "chase the spring". But, if one is
> feeling all handyman-ish or on a really tight budget, $20 can be saved
> by replacing just the brushes. The brushes alone are about $4-5 per
> pair and the whole assy with new insulator is about $25.



In my case I didn't know about the brush holder replacement at the time and
never thought to phone the dealer to ask.

I just picked up a set of replacement brushes for five bucks at a local
rebuilders that was nice enough to sell them to me.



--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Re: Alternator Brush Assembly Guidance?
 

"TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote
> "Elle" <honda.lioness@earthlink.net> wrote
>> Tegger, how many miles were on your 91 Integra when the
>> stator and commutator gave up?
>
> About 240,000. Keep in mind the failure was was due only to corrosion. If
> I
> lived in a place with better weather, I'd probably still be driving on
> that
> alternator. It was charging fine right up to the end. The car sat for two
> weeks while we were on vacation, which gave corrosion lots of time to
> close
> the small gap that remained. If I hadn't let it sit, it may have taken
> several more months to seize.

Okay.

> Also, I made a small error in my reply: It was the *sealing gasket* that
> was orange silicone and fragile, not the brush holder. You have to
> carefully remove the *sealing gasket* before the brush holder can be
> removed. (It appears to have been removed in your photos).

I don't know. At the time, I hadn't even figured out where the two screws
were for the brush assembly. I didn't take anything from the center area
off. I don't see this gasket listed at Majestic's site, so I suppose it
comes with the brush holder insulator. Maybe mine was too grimy to be
obvious. All the photos at the site were taken after I cleaned the parts up
a little.

I added some comments from the newsgroup to the site. Thanks for the input,
bob, alex, and tegger, as well as the several others of you who have
commented on this job in the past year.

Re: Alternator Brush Assembly Guidance?
 

In article <jpCdnVgYotv6WWHeRVn-iA@comcast.com>, notbob@nothome.com says...
>
>
>On 2006-02-22, Elle <honda.lioness@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> Alex and Bob, I'd also like to incorporate some of your
>> remarks at the site, too. Okay?
>
>Fine by me. Thanks for the great site.

Sure.
----------
Alex

Re: Alternator Brush Assembly Guidance?
 

"Elle" <honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote in
news:cVnLf.4611$UN.4455@newsread2.news.pas.earthli nk.net:

> "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote

>
>> Also, I made a small error in my reply: It was the *sealing gasket*
>> that was orange silicone and fragile, not the brush holder. You have
>> to carefully remove the *sealing gasket* before the brush holder can
>> be removed. (It appears to have been removed in your photos).
>
> I don't know. At the time, I hadn't even figured out where the two
> screws were for the brush assembly. I didn't take anything from the
> center area off.



The two screws are under that gasket, as I recall. My brush holder was
original, and from 1991. Maybe replacement gaskets (or aftermarket ones)
are a different color.



> I don't see this gasket listed at Majestic's site, so
> I suppose it comes with the brush holder insulator.



You'd hope so. They're pretty fragile.



--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Re: Alternator Brush Assembly Guidance?
 

"TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote
> "Elle" <honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote
>> "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote
>>> Also, I made a small error in my reply: It was the *sealing gasket*
>>> that was orange silicone and fragile, not the brush holder. You have
>>> to carefully remove the *sealing gasket* before the brush holder can
>>> be removed. (It appears to have been removed in your photos).
>>
>> I don't know. At the time, I hadn't even figured out where the two
>> screws were for the brush assembly. I didn't take anything from the
>> center area off.
>
>
>
> The two screws are under that gasket, as I recall.

You must be right. Because of the Majestic or manual drawing of the
alternator, I was looking for two horizontally oriented screws, but all I
came up with were the ones for what turned out to be the voltage regulator,
near the circumference, not the center.

Re: Alternator Brush Assembly Guidance?
 

"Elle" <honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote in
news:ngrLf.247$6I.11@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink. net:

> "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote
>> "Elle" <honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote
>>> "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote
>>>> Also, I made a small error in my reply: It was the *sealing gasket*
>>>> that was orange silicone and fragile, not the brush holder. You
>>>> have to carefully remove the *sealing gasket* before the brush
>>>> holder can be removed. (It appears to have been removed in your
>>>> photos).
>>>
>>> I don't know. At the time, I hadn't even figured out where the two
>>> screws were for the brush assembly. I didn't take anything from the
>>> center area off.
>>
>>
>>
>> The two screws are under that gasket, as I recall.
>
> You must be right. Because of the Majestic or manual drawing of the
> alternator, I was looking for two horizontally oriented screws, but
> all I came up with were the ones for what turned out to be the voltage
> regulator, near the circumference, not the center.
>
>
>


They are on either side of the alternator's shaft. This is good, really,
because being covered by the gasket means most corrosion is kept away from
them.

I cannot stress how important it is that your *stubby* Phillips screwdriver
be a *perfect* fit in the screws. You need to make sure that you hold the
driver straight in line with the screws, and push really hard while
turning, to make sure the head doesn't ride up out of the Phillips cross.
If it rides out, you may round off the cross enough that removal of the
alternator may be the only way to remove the screws.

If the only Phillips driver you have is one size too small, DON'T USE IT!
Go buy the proper one.

--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/