Annoying intermittant power loss
 

Okay, this is really starting to bug me... this is the third '87 Accord
in a row now that's had this problem (all carbed, first had A/C and P/S,
second P/S and non-working A/C, latest has neither.

My first one was running great, really peppy, until I had a "fuel system
service" done, and after that it seemed sluggish. Both of the
subsequent cars have had the same issue: sometimes they're just
"oomph-less" - bog down off the line, punching the gas accelerates only
slowly, and pushing the clutch in for an upshift results in an immediate
feeling of deceleration, almost as if something was dragging.

And then for no apparent reason, often after idling for a couple
minutes, like at a long stop light, the power is just there - sharp off
the line, hitting the gas at cruise puts you back in the seat at just
about any speed/RPM, and it keeps coasting smoothly when the clutch is
lowered.

I'd almost suspect a fuel delivery or ignition timing issue if it
weren't for that "dragging" issue. I don't think it's the brakes; if
they were sticking that badly they should be heating up as well, and
they're not.

Anyone got any thoughts?


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Re: Annoying intermittant power loss
 

I suggest you reconsider dismissing your idea of dragging brakes.
Sounds right to me. Next time this phenomenon occurs... I would wait
until it happens several times and then pull over... and go around and
feel all four brake rotors. Obviously you'd be looking for one (or
more) that is hotter than the others. You certainly could have a
caliper that is not releasing properly. I have seen this happen
intermittently on more than several occations. Just a thought...

Professor
www.telstar-electronics.com

Re: Annoying intermittant power loss
 

"Matt Ion" <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote in message
news:dePBf.444555$ki.201021@pd7tw2no...
> Okay, this is really starting to bug me... this is the third '87 Accord
> in a row now that's had this problem (all carbed, first had A/C and P/S,
> second P/S and non-working A/C, latest has neither.
>
> My first one was running great, really peppy, until I had a "fuel system
> service" done, and after that it seemed sluggish. Both of the
> subsequent cars have had the same issue: sometimes they're just
> "oomph-less" - bog down off the line, punching the gas accelerates only
> slowly, and pushing the clutch in for an upshift results in an immediate
> feeling of deceleration, almost as if something was dragging.
>
> And then for no apparent reason, often after idling for a couple
> minutes, like at a long stop light, the power is just there - sharp off
> the line, hitting the gas at cruise puts you back in the seat at just
> about any speed/RPM, and it keeps coasting smoothly when the clutch is
> lowered.
>
> I'd almost suspect a fuel delivery or ignition timing issue if it
> weren't for that "dragging" issue. I don't think it's the brakes; if
> they were sticking that badly they should be heating up as well, and
> they're not.
>
> Anyone got any thoughts?
>
>
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> Virus Database (VPS): 0604-1, 01/24/2006
> Tested on: 1/25/2006 10:14:17 AM
> avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2005 ALWIL Software.
> http://www.avast.com
>
>
>
Had a sluggish loss in power and loss of fire problem. All would be well
after a restart. Problem turned out to be an intermittently clogged (nut &
bolt catcher) screen at the fuel pump (tank) inlet. Replacing the
pump/screen--all one unit at the time, fixed the problem.
MLD

Re: Annoying intermittant power loss
 

MLD wrote:
> "Matt Ion" <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote in message
> news:dePBf.444555$ki.201021@pd7tw2no...
>
>>Okay, this is really starting to bug me... this is the third '87 Accord
>>in a row now that's had this problem (all carbed, first had A/C and P/S,
>>second P/S and non-working A/C, latest has neither.
>>
>>My first one was running great, really peppy, until I had a "fuel system
>>service" done, and after that it seemed sluggish. Both of the
>>subsequent cars have had the same issue: sometimes they're just
>>"oomph-less" - bog down off the line, punching the gas accelerates only
>>slowly, and pushing the clutch in for an upshift results in an immediate
>>feeling of deceleration, almost as if something was dragging.
>>
>>And then for no apparent reason, often after idling for a couple
>>minutes, like at a long stop light, the power is just there - sharp off
>>the line, hitting the gas at cruise puts you back in the seat at just
>>about any speed/RPM, and it keeps coasting smoothly when the clutch is
>>lowered.
>>
>>I'd almost suspect a fuel delivery or ignition timing issue if it
>>weren't for that "dragging" issue. I don't think it's the brakes; if
>>they were sticking that badly they should be heating up as well, and
>>they're not.
>>
>>Anyone got any thoughts?
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>
> Had a sluggish loss in power and loss of fire problem. All would be well
> after a restart. Problem turned out to be an intermittently clogged (nut &
> bolt catcher) screen at the fuel pump (tank) inlet. Replacing the
> pump/screen--all one unit at the time, fixed the problem.
> MLD

Yeah, but on three different cars?

Besides, being carbed, a clogged intake filter shouldn't affect it in
this way. In normal running it feeds off the float bowl; performance
doesn't rely on constant pressure.


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Re: Annoying intermittant power loss
 

Professor wrote:
> I suggest you reconsider dismissing your idea of dragging brakes.
> Sounds right to me. Next time this phenomenon occurs... I would wait
> until it happens several times and then pull over... and go around and
> feel all four brake rotors. Obviously you'd be looking for one (or
> more) that is hotter than the others. You certainly could have a
> caliper that is not releasing properly. I have seen this happen
> intermittently on more than several occations. Just a thought...

Well... or sticky shoes on the back (drum brakes). I guess ideally I
need to whip the thing up on a jack and make sure everything spins freely.


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Re: Annoying intermittant power loss
 

"Matt Ion" <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote in message
news:epUBf.220802$tl.14061@pd7tw3no...
> MLD wrote:
> > "Matt Ion" <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote in message
> > news:dePBf.444555$ki.201021@pd7tw2no...
> >
> >>Okay, this is really starting to bug me... this is the third '87 Accord
> >>in a row now that's had this problem (all carbed, first had A/C and P/S,
> >>second P/S and non-working A/C, latest has neither.
> >>
> >>My first one was running great, really peppy, until I had a "fuel system
> >>service" done, and after that it seemed sluggish. Both of the
> >>subsequent cars have had the same issue: sometimes they're just
> >>"oomph-less" - bog down off the line, punching the gas accelerates only
> >>slowly, and pushing the clutch in for an upshift results in an immediate
> >>feeling of deceleration, almost as if something was dragging.
> >>
> >>And then for no apparent reason, often after idling for a couple
> >>minutes, like at a long stop light, the power is just there - sharp off
> >>the line, hitting the gas at cruise puts you back in the seat at just
> >>about any speed/RPM, and it keeps coasting smoothly when the clutch is
> >>lowered.
> >>
> >>I'd almost suspect a fuel delivery or ignition timing issue if it
> >>weren't for that "dragging" issue. I don't think it's the brakes; if
> >>they were sticking that badly they should be heating up as well, and
> >>they're not.
> >>
> >>Anyone got any thoughts?
> >>
> >>
> >>---
> >>avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
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> >>avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2005 ALWIL Software.
> >>http://www.avast.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Had a sluggish loss in power and loss of fire problem. All would be
well
> > after a restart. Problem turned out to be an intermittently clogged
(nut &
> > bolt catcher) screen at the fuel pump (tank) inlet. Replacing the
> > pump/screen--all one unit at the time, fixed the problem.
> > MLD
>
> Yeah, but on three different cars?
>
> Besides, being carbed, a clogged intake filter shouldn't affect it in
> this way. In normal running it feeds off the float bowl; performance
> doesn't rely on constant pressure.
>

I agree that to happen on three (of your) cars seems unlikely and
unusual--having said that "why do you think that auto companies have
recalls? If you have a design problem eventually it will begins to show up
in the field. In my case (and maybe or maybe not) your case it takes a long
time for a screen to rust and clog to the point where it can intermittently
effect fuel flow. If you saw what came out of my gas tank you wouldn't
believe that it was a fuel filter. Have you considered looking at and/or
changing the fuel filter that feeds the carb in the engine compartment?
With respect to your comment re-fuel bowl---- if it is a fuel delivery
problem maybe the float bowl is not getting filled with fuel, runs dry and
when stopped has a chance to refill?
Just throwing out some comments--
MLD

Re: Annoying intermittant power loss
 

Matt
Had a similar problem with an '85 carburated, so here is one more
idea(long-shot).
Is there(or should be) a snorkel hose from the exahust manifold to the
air cleaner in the '87?.
If so make sure it's intact and in place, and that the blend air door
in the air cleaner operates. in the '85 I had, the linkage form the
blend door vacuum motor to the door got disconnected resulting in loss
of power especially on humid days.

Re: Annoying intermittant power loss
 

MLD wrote:
> "Matt Ion" <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote in message
> news:epUBf.220802$tl.14061@pd7tw3no...
>
>>MLD wrote:
>>
>>>"Matt Ion" <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote in message
>>>news:dePBf.444555$ki.201021@pd7tw2no...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Okay, this is really starting to bug me... this is the third '87 Accord
>>>>in a row now that's had this problem (all carbed, first had A/C and P/S,
>>>>second P/S and non-working A/C, latest has neither.
>>>>
>>>>My first one was running great, really peppy, until I had a "fuel system
>>>>service" done, and after that it seemed sluggish. Both of the
>>>>subsequent cars have had the same issue: sometimes they're just
>>>>"oomph-less" - bog down off the line, punching the gas accelerates only
>>>>slowly, and pushing the clutch in for an upshift results in an immediate
>>>>feeling of deceleration, almost as if something was dragging.
>>>>
>>>>And then for no apparent reason, often after idling for a couple
>>>>minutes, like at a long stop light, the power is just there - sharp off
>>>>the line, hitting the gas at cruise puts you back in the seat at just
>>>>about any speed/RPM, and it keeps coasting smoothly when the clutch is
>>>>lowered.
>>>>
>>>>I'd almost suspect a fuel delivery or ignition timing issue if it
>>>>weren't for that "dragging" issue. I don't think it's the brakes; if
>>>>they were sticking that badly they should be heating up as well, and
>>>>they're not.
>>>>
>>>>Anyone got any thoughts?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>---
>>>>avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
>>>>Virus Database (VPS): 0604-1, 01/24/2006
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>>>>avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2005 ALWIL Software.
>>>>http://www.avast.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>Had a sluggish loss in power and loss of fire problem. All would be
>
> well
>
>>>after a restart. Problem turned out to be an intermittently clogged
>
> (nut &
>
>>>bolt catcher) screen at the fuel pump (tank) inlet. Replacing the
>>>pump/screen--all one unit at the time, fixed the problem.
>>>MLD
>>
>>Yeah, but on three different cars?
>>
>>Besides, being carbed, a clogged intake filter shouldn't affect it in
>>this way. In normal running it feeds off the float bowl; performance
>>doesn't rely on constant pressure.
>>
>
>
> I agree that to happen on three (of your) cars seems unlikely and
> unusual--having said that "why do you think that auto companies have
> recalls? If you have a design problem eventually it will begins to show up
> in the field.

The only recalls on this car are for the fuel filler tube rusting out,
and the seatbelt buckles having broken plastic bits. If there were
going to be a recall on this, it should have been issued a long time ago
on a 20-year-old design.

> In my case (and maybe or maybe not) your case it takes a long
> time for a screen to rust and clog to the point where it can intermittently
> effect fuel flow. If you saw what came out of my gas tank you wouldn't
> believe that it was a fuel filter. Have you considered looking at and/or
> changing the fuel filter that feeds the carb in the engine compartment?
> With respect to your comment re-fuel bowl---- if it is a fuel delivery
> problem maybe the float bowl is not getting filled with fuel, runs dry and
> when stopped has a chance to refill?

Nope. Low fuel flow and the float bowl not refilling would more likely
manifest as sputtering and dropouts at high rpms. It doesn't do that at
all - it's just an overall lost of acceleration power across the band.


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Re: Annoying intermittant power loss
 

yjrybano2spam@yahoo.com wrote:
> Matt
> Had a similar problem with an '85 carburated, so here is one more
> idea(long-shot).
> Is there(or should be) a snorkel hose from the exahust manifold to the
> air cleaner in the '87?.
> If so make sure it's intact and in place, and that the blend air door
> in the air cleaner operates. in the '85 I had, the linkage form the
> blend door vacuum motor to the door got disconnected resulting in loss
> of power especially on humid days.

Not even in use on this car - it's disconnected and the breather lid
flipped over to allow better breathing. Doesn't affect the issue. Hot
or cold, damp or dry, doesn't matter - sometimes it'll run great right
off the hop, sometimes sluggish at first and better later, sometimes it
just never quite "wakes up".


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Re: Annoying intermittant power loss
 

For the heck of it I Goggled "intermittent power loss Honda". Got lots of
hits with many interesting reasons and causes. Some fuel pumps, rusted fuel
filter, electrical (wires/plugs) etc. among them. A very hard one to find
turned out to be the oxygen sensor. Quote from the write-up "Three days
after the car first rolled in the shop, the problem was finally solved with
a simple oxygen sensor replacement. Those darn intermittent." Suggest you
try this path, might find your exact problem or at least something that will
lead you to the solution.
MLD

"Matt Ion" <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote in message
news:aC7Cf.224771$tl.120433@pd7tw3no...
> MLD wrote:
> > "Matt Ion" <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote in message
> > news:epUBf.220802$tl.14061@pd7tw3no...
> >
> >>MLD wrote:
> >>
> >>>"Matt Ion" <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote in message
> >>>news:dePBf.444555$ki.201021@pd7tw2no...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Okay, this is really starting to bug me... this is the third '87
Accord
> >>>>in a row now that's had this problem (all carbed, first had A/C and
P/S,
> >>>>second P/S and non-working A/C, latest has neither.
> >>>>
> >>>>My first one was running great, really peppy, until I had a "fuel
system
> >>>>service" done, and after that it seemed sluggish. Both of the
> >>>>subsequent cars have had the same issue: sometimes they're just
> >>>>"oomph-less" - bog down off the line, punching the gas accelerates
only
> >>>>slowly, and pushing the clutch in for an upshift results in an
immediate
> >>>>feeling of deceleration, almost as if something was dragging.
> >>>>
> >>>>And then for no apparent reason, often after idling for a couple
> >>>>minutes, like at a long stop light, the power is just there - sharp
off
> >>>>the line, hitting the gas at cruise puts you back in the seat at just
> >>>>about any speed/RPM, and it keeps coasting smoothly when the clutch is
> >>>>lowered.
> >>>>
> >>>>I'd almost suspect a fuel delivery or ignition timing issue if it
> >>>>weren't for that "dragging" issue. I don't think it's the brakes; if
> >>>>they were sticking that badly they should be heating up as well, and
> >>>>they're not.
> >>>>
> >>>>Anyone got any thoughts?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>---
> >>>>avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
> >>>>Virus Database (VPS): 0604-1, 01/24/2006
> >>>>Tested on: 1/25/2006 10:14:17 AM
> >>>>avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2005 ALWIL Software.
> >>>>http://www.avast.com
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>Had a sluggish loss in power and loss of fire problem. All would be
> >
> > well
> >
> >>>after a restart. Problem turned out to be an intermittently clogged
> >
> > (nut &
> >
> >>>bolt catcher) screen at the fuel pump (tank) inlet. Replacing the
> >>>pump/screen--all one unit at the time, fixed the problem.
> >>>MLD
> >>
> >>Yeah, but on three different cars?
> >>
> >>Besides, being carbed, a clogged intake filter shouldn't affect it in
> >>this way. In normal running it feeds off the float bowl; performance
> >>doesn't rely on constant pressure.
> >>
> >
> >
> > I agree that to happen on three (of your) cars seems unlikely and
> > unusual--having said that "why do you think that auto companies have
> > recalls? If you have a design problem eventually it will begins to show
up
> > in the field.
>
> The only recalls on this car are for the fuel filler tube rusting out,
> and the seatbelt buckles having broken plastic bits. If there were
> going to be a recall on this, it should have been issued a long time ago
> on a 20-year-old design.
>
> > In my case (and maybe or maybe not) your case it takes a long
> > time for a screen to rust and clog to the point where it can
intermittently
> > effect fuel flow. If you saw what came out of my gas tank you wouldn't
> > believe that it was a fuel filter. Have you considered looking at
and/or
> > changing the fuel filter that feeds the carb in the engine compartment?
> > With respect to your comment re-fuel bowl---- if it is a fuel delivery
> > problem maybe the float bowl is not getting filled with fuel, runs dry
and
> > when stopped has a chance to refill?
>
> Nope. Low fuel flow and the float bowl not refilling would more likely
> manifest as sputtering and dropouts at high rpms. It doesn't do that at
> all - it's just an overall lost of acceleration power across the band.
>
>
> ---
> avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
> Virus Database (VPS): 0604-3, 01/26/2006
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> http://www.avast.com
>
>
>

Re: Annoying intermittant power loss
 

MLD wrote:
> For the heck of it I Goggled "intermittent power loss Honda". Got lots of
> hits with many interesting reasons and causes. Some fuel pumps, rusted fuel
> filter, electrical (wires/plugs) etc. among them. A very hard one to find
> turned out to be the oxygen sensor. Quote from the write-up "Three days
> after the car first rolled in the shop, the problem was finally solved with
> a simple oxygen sensor replacement. Those darn intermittent." Suggest you
> try this path, might find your exact problem or at least something that will
> lead you to the solution.
> MLD

The carbureted vehicles don't have oxygen sensors.


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Re: Annoying intermittant power loss
 

"Matt Ion" <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote
> MLD wrote:
> > For the heck of it I Goggled "intermittent power loss
Honda". Got lots of
> > hits with many interesting reasons and causes. Some
fuel pumps, rusted fuel
> > filter, electrical (wires/plugs) etc. among them. A
very hard one to find
> > turned out to be the oxygen sensor. Quote from the
write-up "Three days
> > after the car first rolled in the shop, the problem was
finally solved with
> > a simple oxygen sensor replacement. Those darn
intermittent." Suggest you
> > try this path, might find your exact problem or at least
something that will
> > lead you to the solution.
> > MLD
>
> The carbureted vehicles don't have oxygen sensors.

The 1987 Accord most certainly does have an oxygen sensor. I
thought so off the top of my head, because my recollection
is that the oxygen sensor was a 1970s or so emissions
control development (someone can google and nitpick away for
details). www.slhonda.com 's parts site, under "exhaust
manifold" confirms.

This may not be thee solution to the intermittent power loss
problem, but I wouldn't disregard it entirely, either,
especially if the car is using the original, almost
20-year-old oxygen sensor.

https://www.automedicsupply.com/ wants $32 + shipping for an
OEM Denso sensor for the 87 Accord LX/DX. I used them for
one a year or so ago. Good service. Best price for OEM by
far. Packaging indicates this is a legit Denso sensor. Very
easy to replace. Borrow an O2 sensor wrench from Autozone at
no charge.

Re: Annoying intermittant power loss
 

"Matt Ion" <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote in message
news:EIPCf.469388$ki.67829@pd7tw2no...
> MLD wrote:
> > For the heck of it I Goggled "intermittent power loss Honda". Got lots
of
> > hits with many interesting reasons and causes. Some fuel pumps, rusted
fuel
> > filter, electrical (wires/plugs) etc. among them. A very hard one to
find
> > turned out to be the oxygen sensor. Quote from the write-up "Three days
> > after the car first rolled in the shop, the problem was finally solved
with
> > a simple oxygen sensor replacement. Those darn intermittent." Suggest
you
> > try this path, might find your exact problem or at least something that
will
> > lead you to the solution.
> > MLD
>
> The carbureted vehicles don't have oxygen sensors.

Didn't say that your car had or didn't have an Oxygen sensor. Just trying
to give you some sense of what can cause your problem and some place to look
for solutions. You're looking for help ands instead of being appreciative
of what you're getting you tend to have a negative attitude instead. Good
Luck (and good-bye)
MLD
>
>
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> http://www.avast.com
>
>
>

Re: Annoying intermittant power loss
 

Elle wrote:

>>The carbureted vehicles don't have oxygen sensors.
>
>
> The 1987 Accord most certainly does have an oxygen sensor.

Okay, put it this way: none of MY three 87 Accords have had oxygen
sensors, including this one. Yes, I am quite sure about this, so don't
tell me "Yes it does, you're just not looking hard enough." I got under
the car with a Honda service tech while he told me where it SHOULD be on
the first one, and there was nothing. When I finally went to another
dealer service center, I was told by the service manager that most
carb'd 87s DON'T have them.

So there you have it.

Given that the O2 sensor is supposed to measure the burn gasses and
allow the ECU to compensate, I see little point in having once since
there's no real way for the ECU to actually adjust the carb on these cars.


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Re: Annoying intermittant power loss
 

MLD wrote:
> "Matt Ion" <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote in message
> news:EIPCf.469388$ki.67829@pd7tw2no...
>
>>MLD wrote:
>>
>>>For the heck of it I Goggled "intermittent power loss Honda". Got lots
>
> of
>
>>>hits with many interesting reasons and causes. Some fuel pumps, rusted
>
> fuel
>
>>>filter, electrical (wires/plugs) etc. among them. A very hard one to
>
> find
>
>>>turned out to be the oxygen sensor. Quote from the write-up "Three days
>>>after the car first rolled in the shop, the problem was finally solved
>
> with
>
>>>a simple oxygen sensor replacement. Those darn intermittent." Suggest
>
> you
>
>>>try this path, might find your exact problem or at least something that
>
> will
>
>>>lead you to the solution.
>>>MLD
>>
>>The carbureted vehicles don't have oxygen sensors.
>
>
> Didn't say that your car had or didn't have an Oxygen sensor. Just trying
> to give you some sense of what can cause your problem and some place to look
> for solutions. You're looking for help ands instead of being appreciative
> of what you're getting you tend to have a negative attitude instead. Good
> Luck (and good-bye)

All I said what that there isn't an oxygen sensor.

Touchy, touchy.


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Re: Annoying intermittant power loss
 

"Matt Ion" <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote
> Elle wrote:
>
> >>The carbureted vehicles don't have oxygen sensors.
> >
> >
> > The 1987 Accord most certainly does have an oxygen
sensor.
>
> Okay, put it this way: none of MY three 87 Accords have
had oxygen
> sensors, including this one.

Site http://www.pauldesign.ru/honda/about.html indicates
that this is indeed very possible. It says about the 86-89
Accord:

" ... [In the] USA several versions of the carbureted engine
existed, which was modernized several times.... Depending on
the region where the Accord was sold, the engines may have
had slight differences such as the ECU adjustment depending
on the gasoline available, the absence of the oxygen sensor
etc."

Though let me duck and add, for the archives if not for you:
You say you are looking under the car. From the online parts
drawings, it looks to me like anyone seeking the oxygen
sensor should simply be looking at the top or front of the
exhaust manifold (depending on which 1987 Accord model you
have). It should be pretty readily accessible just under the
hood.

My 87 Civic manual has a drawing clearly labeled "exhaust
manifold... 1984-1987 carbureted engine." The oxygen sensor
is clearly shown on it, going into the top of the manifold
(but not quite the same way the 87 Accord drawings show).

But I realize a Honda tech would have known what to look for
and it would be darn near impossible to miss. So you must
have one of these Accords that the site I link above says
has no oxygen sensor.

> Yes, I am quite sure about this, so don't
> tell me "Yes it does, you're just not looking hard
enough." I got under
> the car with a Honda service tech while he told me where
it SHOULD be on
> the first one, and there was nothing.

> When I finally went to another
> dealer service center, I was told by the service manager
that most
> carb'd 87s DON'T have them.
>
> So there you have it.

> Given that the O2 sensor is supposed to measure the burn
gasses and
> allow the ECU to compensate, I see little point in having
once since
> there's no real way for the ECU to actually adjust the
carb on these cars.

"Once the oxygen sensor detect[s] that the mixture is lean
or
rich, it will send a voltage signal to the engine management
ECU
computer, which in turn issues a command to the mixture
control
solenoid found in the carburetor to adjust the mixture
before it enters
the engine. This procedure assures that the engine will be
given not
just the best possible fuel economy but the lowest possible
exhaust
emissions as well."
http://www.partstrain.com/ShopByDepa.../Oxygen_Sensor

The net has discussion at many sites of carburetors having
input from the ECU to control emissions. Again, I don't know
what the Honda Accord has exactly, beyond what the parts
sites and manuals claim.

Good luck.

Re: Annoying intermittant power loss
 

Matt Ion wrote:
> Given that the O2 sensor is supposed to measure the burn gasses and
> allow the ECU to compensate, I see little point in having once since
> there's no real way for the ECU to actually adjust the carb on these cars.

my 1981 VW rabbit had one. the CIS injection system on that thing was
completely mechanical, from what i remember. so i have NO clue what the
O2 sensors purpose was. i remember stripping the threads on the exhaust
manifold changing it, then driving it for months with just a bolt wedged
in the hole in the manifold. made no difference in driveability.

Re: Annoying intermittant power loss
 

Matt Ion <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote in
news:oyhDf.487308$ki.317478@pd7tw2no:

> MLD wrote:
>> "Matt Ion" <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote in message
>> news:EIPCf.469388$ki.67829@pd7tw2no...
>>
>>>MLD wrote:
>>>
>>>>For the heck of it I Goggled "intermittent power loss Honda". Got
>>>>lots
>>
>> of
>>
>>>>hits with many interesting reasons and causes. Some fuel pumps,
>>>>rusted
>>
>> fuel
>>
>>>>filter, electrical (wires/plugs) etc. among them. A very hard one
>>>>to
>>
>> find
>>
>>>>turned out to be the oxygen sensor. Quote from the write-up "Three
>>>>days after the car first rolled in the shop, the problem was finally
>>>>solved
>>
>> with
>>
>>>>a simple oxygen sensor replacement. Those darn intermittent."
>>>>Suggest
>>
>> you
>>
>>>>try this path, might find your exact problem or at least something
>>>>that
>>
>> will
>>
>>>>lead you to the solution.
>>>>MLD
>>>
>>>The carbureted vehicles don't have oxygen sensors.
>>
>>
>> Didn't say that your car had or didn't have an Oxygen sensor. Just
>> trying to give you some sense of what can cause your problem and some
>> place to look for solutions. You're looking for help ands instead of
>> being appreciative of what you're getting you tend to have a negative
>> attitude instead. Good Luck (and good-bye)
>
> All I said what that there isn't an oxygen sensor.
>
> Touchy, touchy.


Do you have any kind of service manual for the model and year of your car?
Factory,Haynes,Chilton,or other?

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

Re: Annoying intermittant power loss
 

Elle wrote:

> Though let me duck and add, for the archives if not for you:
> You say you are looking under the car. From the online parts
> drawings, it looks to me like anyone seeking the oxygen
> sensor should simply be looking at the top or front of the
> exhaust manifold (depending on which 1987 Accord model you
> have). It should be pretty readily accessible just under the
> hood.

I started there... the tech on the phone had me searching all the way
back to the catalytic converter.

> The net has discussion at many sites of carburetors having
> input from the ECU to control emissions. Again, I don't know
> what the Honda Accord has exactly, beyond what the parts
> sites and manuals claim.

There are no wires going anywhere near the carb or anything attached to
it on these three cars, either... how it manages air/fuel mixture is
beyond me because there's no mixture screw either, aside from idle mixture.


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Re: Annoying intermittant power loss
 

"Matt Ion" <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote
> Elle wrote:
> > Though let me duck and add, for the archives if not for
you:
> > You say you are looking under the car. From the online
parts
> > drawings, it looks to me like anyone seeking the oxygen
> > sensor should simply be looking at the top or front of
the
> > exhaust manifold (depending on which 1987 Accord model
you
> > have). It should be pretty readily accessible just under
the
> > hood.
>
> I started there... the tech on the phone had me searching
all the way
> back to the catalytic converter.

I understand. As long as one has some idea of what it looks
like, it's really hard to miss, so, yes, you must have and
have had Accords without them. I was mistaken, and the parts
sites are misleading on this matter, etc.

> > The net has discussion at many sites of carburetors
having
> > input from the ECU to control emissions. Again, I don't
know
> > what the Honda Accord has exactly, beyond what the parts
> > sites and manuals claim.
>
> There are no wires going anywhere near the carb or
anything attached to
> it on these three cars, either... how it manages air/fuel
mixture is
> beyond me because there's no mixture screw either, aside
from idle mixture.

Tricky, especially since the carburetor may be the source of
your Accord's problem. This might be an instance where
owning a Helm factory service manual might be a great aid, I
suppose. Good luck.

Re: Annoying intermittant power loss
 

Matt,
I have personal experience with this. I too have a '87 accord that is
carbureated.. I began intermittantly losing power. I initially replaced
the fuel filter. It did not seem to make a difference. the problem got
worse, especially at times of high fuel demand, such as when climbing a
big hill. I looked on google groups for an answer. I found a posting
that said that the 87 Accord was one model that had had some corrosion
issues with the fuel filler hose that would clog the screen on the fuel
pump pickup line. I bought a new pump, and screen (about $65). It
completely resolved my problem. The pump is very easy to replace. there
is a access hole behind the drivers side rear seat. lower the rear
seat, and you will see it in the floor of the trunk..
hope this helps.
Mike

Re: Annoying intermittant power loss
 

mikee442@gmail.com wrote:
> Matt,
> I have personal experience with this. I too have a '87 accord that is
> carbureated.. I began intermittantly losing power. I initially replaced
> the fuel filter. It did not seem to make a difference. the problem got
> worse, especially at times of high fuel demand, such as when climbing a
> big hill. I looked on google groups for an answer. I found a posting
> that said that the 87 Accord was one model that had had some corrosion
> issues with the fuel filler hose that would clog the screen on the fuel
> pump pickup line. I bought a new pump, and screen (about $65). It
> completely resolved my problem. The pump is very easy to replace. there
> is a access hole behind the drivers side rear seat. lower the rear
> seat, and you will see it in the floor of the trunk..
> hope this helps.

I guess it's easy enough to give that a look, but I still doubt it's a
fuel issue.


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