bad camber
 

can anyone tll me if there is a way to adjust my camber by myself... even
just a little. i cant even drive my car right now because the old tires wore
through to the wire and i put some new ones on and now when i hit a bumb the
car tries to send me into the right side curb. i am new to hondas and this
one is a 91 hatch with coil over suspension up front...

please help if possible

Re: bad camber
 

zac s via CarKB.com wrote:
> can anyone tll me if there is a way to adjust my camber by myself... even
> just a little. i cant even drive my car right now because the old tires wore
> through to the wire and i put some new ones on and now when i hit a bumb the
> car tries to send me into the right side curb. i am new to hondas and this
> one is a 91 hatch with coil over suspension up front...
>
> please help if possible

civic, right? don't worry - the civic is one of the most
maintenance-friendly cars on the road.

i doubt camber is the problem bumping you off to one side. check the
ball joints - bottom one could be seized or a top one could be loose.
when you've checked and replaced the defective parts, make sure to get
the car properly aligned front & rear - need to do both on any civic 88
through 2000.

when checking, you need to look at/test all suspension rubbers, ball
joints, sway bars/sway bar ends & bearings. front & rear - the rear is
not neutral in steering on this vintage civic and makes a big difference
to handling if a bushing is gone or it's not set up right. also make
sure that if you've done any suspension work, on reassembly, you only
tighten the bolts on any rubber bushing joints when the vehicle is back
full weight on the ground. if you tighten with the wheels not in their
normal working position, you can fix a "set" into the rubbers which
makes the car handle strange and which will fatigue the bushings real quick.

regarding your question, camber is not adjustable on the honda unless
you fit special camber kits. if you have stock ride height, camber kits
are not necessary - assuming your frame is straight. good ones are
expensive. if your vehicle is stock, i'd spend the money on replacing
defective parts first, alignment second, with camber kits a distant
fourth behind frame straightening.

just ask if you still have questions.

Re: bad camber
 

zac s via CarKB.com wrote:
> can anyone tll me if there is a way to adjust my camber by myself... even
> just a little. i cant even drive my car right now because the old tires wore
> through to the wire and i put some new ones on and now when i hit a bumb the
> car tries to send me into the right side curb. i am new to hondas and this
> one is a 91 hatch with coil over suspension up front...
>
> please help if possible

civic, right? don't worry - the civic is one of the most
maintenance-friendly cars on the road.

i doubt camber is the problem bumping you off to one side. check the
ball joints - bottom one could be seized or a top one could be loose.
when you've checked and replaced the defective parts, make sure to get
the car properly aligned front & rear - need to do both on any civic 88
through 2000.

when checking, you need to look at/test all suspension rubbers, ball
joints, sway bars/sway bar ends & bearings. front & rear - the rear is
not neutral in steering on this vintage civic and makes a big difference
to handling if a bushing is gone or it's not set up right. also make
sure that if you've done any suspension work, on reassembly, you only
tighten the bolts on any rubber bushing joints when the vehicle is back
full weight on the ground. if you tighten with the wheels not in their
normal working position, you can fix a "set" into the rubbers which
makes the car handle strange and which will fatigue the bushings real quick.

regarding your question, camber is not adjustable on the honda unless
you fit special camber kits. if you have stock ride height, camber kits
are not necessary - assuming your frame is straight. good ones are
expensive. if your vehicle is stock, i'd spend the money on replacing
defective parts first, alignment second, with camber kits a distant
fourth behind frame straightening.

just ask if you still have questions.

Re: bad camber
 

>just ask if you still have questions.

thank u so much, i know i have a camber problem because the wires are showing
on the inside of the front tires and the outside is almost new, and the temp
on the inside of the tires is hot enough to burn u after only 20 min of
driving and the outside of the tire is cool. anyway, come to think of it, the
boot is distroyed on the left axel conect. to the wheel and there is grit in
it, also i havn't checked the ball joits but i sure will now. i dont know
what stock ride height is and i have looked for a while on the net, mine is
23 in fr/rr from mid cnter of wheel ground to fender.

again i thank u very much for the help


--
Message posted via http://www.carkb.com

Re: bad camber
 

>just ask if you still have questions.

thank u so much, i know i have a camber problem because the wires are showing
on the inside of the front tires and the outside is almost new, and the temp
on the inside of the tires is hot enough to burn u after only 20 min of
driving and the outside of the tire is cool. anyway, come to think of it, the
boot is distroyed on the left axel conect. to the wheel and there is grit in
it, also i havn't checked the ball joits but i sure will now. i dont know
what stock ride height is and i have looked for a while on the net, mine is
23 in fr/rr from mid cnter of wheel ground to fender.

again i thank u very much for the help


--
Message posted via http://www.carkb.com

Re: bad camber
 

"zac s via CarKB.com" <forum@CarKB.com> wrote in message
news:50C14E009D660@CarKB.com...
> >just ask if you still have questions.
>
> thank u so much, i know i have a camber problem because the wires are
> showing
> on the inside of the front tires and the outside is almost new, and the
> temp
> on the inside of the tires is hot enough to burn u after only 20 min of
> driving and the outside of the tire is cool.

That indicates toe-out, which causes the inner edge of the front tires to
scuff on the oncoming pavement. Excessive toe-in causes the reverse, with
the outer edges wearing.

I once had a Lotus Europa, which had radical fixed camber in the rear wheels
(maybe 10 degrees). The tires wore flat but angled - there was no edge wear
at all.

Toe-out will cause screwy handling, to be sure. But I completely agree with
jim beam's recommendation to inspect all the wear points (ball joints and
bushings) thoroughly. Something has changed to cause this situation, and you
might suffer a broken ball joint if you don't catch it first - no fun at all
for zac.

Mike

Re: bad camber
 

"zac s via CarKB.com" <forum@CarKB.com> wrote in message
news:50C14E009D660@CarKB.com...
> >just ask if you still have questions.
>
> thank u so much, i know i have a camber problem because the wires are
> showing
> on the inside of the front tires and the outside is almost new, and the
> temp
> on the inside of the tires is hot enough to burn u after only 20 min of
> driving and the outside of the tire is cool.

That indicates toe-out, which causes the inner edge of the front tires to
scuff on the oncoming pavement. Excessive toe-in causes the reverse, with
the outer edges wearing.

I once had a Lotus Europa, which had radical fixed camber in the rear wheels
(maybe 10 degrees). The tires wore flat but angled - there was no edge wear
at all.

Toe-out will cause screwy handling, to be sure. But I completely agree with
jim beam's recommendation to inspect all the wear points (ball joints and
bushings) thoroughly. Something has changed to cause this situation, and you
might suffer a broken ball joint if you don't catch it first - no fun at all
for zac.

Mike

Re: bad camber
 

zac s via CarKB.com wrote:
>>just ask if you still have questions.
>
>
> thank u so much, i know i have a camber problem because the wires are showing
> on the inside of the front tires and the outside is almost new

ok, that's not camber, that's toe. toe's easily adjustable, but you
have to take it to a shop with the tools to do it. here in california,
that's $50 to $70, but you should get at least a 6 month warranty
allowing you to take it back - handy if you're doing more work to the car.

>, and the temp
> on the inside of the tires is hot enough to burn u after only 20 min of
> driving and the outside of the tire is cool. anyway, come to think of it, the
> boot is distroyed on the left axel conect. to the wheel and there is grit in
> it, also i havn't checked the ball joits but i sure will now. i dont know
> what stock ride height is and i have looked for a while on the net, mine is
> 23 in fr/rr from mid cnter of wheel ground to fender.
>
> again i thank u very much for the help
>
>
you can drive for a little while with a dead boot, [that axle's now dead
anyway], but priority one is check the joints, then get it aligned.
honda's don't go out of alignment unless hit in some way, so make sure
there's no bent or damaged parts when you're inspecting everything.

for ride height, you'd probably notice if it had been lowered. easy
test is park it next to another one & see if it looks different. no
lowering means you probably don't need to worry about camber.

while you're under the car & have the wheels off, consider checking the
brakes for good operation - uneven wear on the pads, etc. depending on
where you live & prevailing rust conditions, front calipers are easily
re-conditionable. bad brakes can ruin your day. read tegger's
excellent faq's.

http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

one last thing; unless it's already been done, your vintage civic is
likely to have a main relay problem. again, check tegger's faq's on the
easy & cheap fix. figure out where the ecu is and how to read
diagnostic codes. if you have any stored codes, you can look them up &
fix the problem.

***

terminology: for this style civic, alignment priorities are toe [front
& rear], thrust, camber & caster. read this

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete...e.jsp?techid=4

so you know what to look for. you can roughly measure camber with a
spirit level.

Re: bad camber
 

zac s via CarKB.com wrote:
>>just ask if you still have questions.
>
>
> thank u so much, i know i have a camber problem because the wires are showing
> on the inside of the front tires and the outside is almost new

ok, that's not camber, that's toe. toe's easily adjustable, but you
have to take it to a shop with the tools to do it. here in california,
that's $50 to $70, but you should get at least a 6 month warranty
allowing you to take it back - handy if you're doing more work to the car.

>, and the temp
> on the inside of the tires is hot enough to burn u after only 20 min of
> driving and the outside of the tire is cool. anyway, come to think of it, the
> boot is distroyed on the left axel conect. to the wheel and there is grit in
> it, also i havn't checked the ball joits but i sure will now. i dont know
> what stock ride height is and i have looked for a while on the net, mine is
> 23 in fr/rr from mid cnter of wheel ground to fender.
>
> again i thank u very much for the help
>
>
you can drive for a little while with a dead boot, [that axle's now dead
anyway], but priority one is check the joints, then get it aligned.
honda's don't go out of alignment unless hit in some way, so make sure
there's no bent or damaged parts when you're inspecting everything.

for ride height, you'd probably notice if it had been lowered. easy
test is park it next to another one & see if it looks different. no
lowering means you probably don't need to worry about camber.

while you're under the car & have the wheels off, consider checking the
brakes for good operation - uneven wear on the pads, etc. depending on
where you live & prevailing rust conditions, front calipers are easily
re-conditionable. bad brakes can ruin your day. read tegger's
excellent faq's.

http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

one last thing; unless it's already been done, your vintage civic is
likely to have a main relay problem. again, check tegger's faq's on the
easy & cheap fix. figure out where the ecu is and how to read
diagnostic codes. if you have any stored codes, you can look them up &
fix the problem.

***

terminology: for this style civic, alignment priorities are toe [front
& rear], thrust, camber & caster. read this

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete...e.jsp?techid=4

so you know what to look for. you can roughly measure camber with a
spirit level.

Re: bad camber
 

"jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message
news:I6qdnZxrFfgublrfRVn-qw@speakeasy.net...
> you can drive for a little while with a dead boot, [that axle's now dead
> anyway], but priority one is check the joints, then get it aligned.
> honda's don't go out of alignment unless hit in some way, so make sure
> there's no bent or damaged parts when you're inspecting everything.
>
It's also worth mentioning the CV joint is not involved in the alignment,
since the inner CV joint is made to adjust to whatever length the steering
demands. The axle does not have to be replaced before the suspension is
fixed and the alignment done, but it is probably simpler/cheaper to do both
together. Expect about $100 US for the (rebuilt) replacement part, more for
a new one if you take it to a dealer. I always do the rebuilt. I also do
both sides when one needs it on the theory and experience that the other
won't last much longer, but you are probably looking at your bank account
with some dismay already.

And just to drive the point home: as you say, there is something
specifically wrong that is causing the alignment to be off - simply
realigning as it is means trouble down the road.

If this is a DIY project, you can even do a DIY toe adjustment after you fix
whatever's broke. Place a strip of tape (like masking tape or duct tape)
across each front tire and drive down a straight road a mile or so. Compare
the wear from the inner to the outer edges, and adjust the tie rods to bring
the fronts in (shorten the tie rods) if the inner edges are wearing more
than the outer edges - and vice-versa. It's no substitute for a real
alignment, but it'll get you close enough to let your tires survive.

Mike

Re: bad camber
 

"jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message
news:I6qdnZxrFfgublrfRVn-qw@speakeasy.net...
> you can drive for a little while with a dead boot, [that axle's now dead
> anyway], but priority one is check the joints, then get it aligned.
> honda's don't go out of alignment unless hit in some way, so make sure
> there's no bent or damaged parts when you're inspecting everything.
>
It's also worth mentioning the CV joint is not involved in the alignment,
since the inner CV joint is made to adjust to whatever length the steering
demands. The axle does not have to be replaced before the suspension is
fixed and the alignment done, but it is probably simpler/cheaper to do both
together. Expect about $100 US for the (rebuilt) replacement part, more for
a new one if you take it to a dealer. I always do the rebuilt. I also do
both sides when one needs it on the theory and experience that the other
won't last much longer, but you are probably looking at your bank account
with some dismay already.

And just to drive the point home: as you say, there is something
specifically wrong that is causing the alignment to be off - simply
realigning as it is means trouble down the road.

If this is a DIY project, you can even do a DIY toe adjustment after you fix
whatever's broke. Place a strip of tape (like masking tape or duct tape)
across each front tire and drive down a straight road a mile or so. Compare
the wear from the inner to the outer edges, and adjust the tie rods to bring
the fronts in (shorten the tie rods) if the inner edges are wearing more
than the outer edges - and vice-versa. It's no substitute for a real
alignment, but it'll get you close enough to let your tires survive.

Mike

Re: bad camber
 

Michael Pardee wrote:
>
> If this is a DIY project, you can even do a DIY toe adjustment after you fix
> whatever's broke. Place a strip of tape (like masking tape or duct tape)
> across each front tire and drive down a straight road a mile or so. Compare
> the wear from the inner to the outer edges, and adjust the tie rods to bring
> the fronts in (shorten the tie rods) if the inner edges are wearing more
> than the outer edges - and vice-versa. It's no substitute for a real
> alignment, but it'll get you close enough to let your tires survive.

in general you're dead right, & i always used to do stuff like this when
i had a car with a fixed rear - if you do it right, you can do a pretty
good job this way too. but on the 88-00 civics, the rear is not fixed &
is /so/ critical to the way the front works, it's not even worth it for
the drive to the alignment shop. i wish i had a spare $6k lying around
to buy an alignment rig - i hate having to take my car to the shop and
having to show the tech what to do. i'll bet you there's not 1 in 10
civics that have the rear done right first time.

Re: bad camber
 

Michael Pardee wrote:
>
> If this is a DIY project, you can even do a DIY toe adjustment after you fix
> whatever's broke. Place a strip of tape (like masking tape or duct tape)
> across each front tire and drive down a straight road a mile or so. Compare
> the wear from the inner to the outer edges, and adjust the tie rods to bring
> the fronts in (shorten the tie rods) if the inner edges are wearing more
> than the outer edges - and vice-versa. It's no substitute for a real
> alignment, but it'll get you close enough to let your tires survive.

in general you're dead right, & i always used to do stuff like this when
i had a car with a fixed rear - if you do it right, you can do a pretty
good job this way too. but on the 88-00 civics, the rear is not fixed &
is /so/ critical to the way the front works, it's not even worth it for
the drive to the alignment shop. i wish i had a spare $6k lying around
to buy an alignment rig - i hate having to take my car to the shop and
having to show the tech what to do. i'll bet you there's not 1 in 10
civics that have the rear done right first time.

Re: bad camber
 

jim beam wrote:
>> If this is a DIY project, you can even do a DIY toe adjustment after you fix
>> whatever's broke....

thank u both very much, i see that this must be a toe problem and that the
camber isnt the real issue. also today, i will check the rubbers and joints,
not to mention that all the shocks are blown because the car is on coil over
sleaves and stock struts, i actually traded for the car and know that the guy
drove under someone and destroyed the hood and fr fenders, the car was also
stolen and striped, he put evrything back togeter and drove it for a while
then traded me, i see now why he was eager to get rid of it.
so the pulling is probably the toe/ joints and rubbers...and i should make
sure that if i tighten them or replace them that its when the car is sitting
on the ground... i think i got that much ill def. go rebuilt on the cv joint..
.. this is all so new, and again thanks for the help!


--
Message posted via http://www.carkb.com

Re: bad camber
 

jim beam wrote:
>> If this is a DIY project, you can even do a DIY toe adjustment after you fix
>> whatever's broke....

thank u both very much, i see that this must be a toe problem and that the
camber isnt the real issue. also today, i will check the rubbers and joints,
not to mention that all the shocks are blown because the car is on coil over
sleaves and stock struts, i actually traded for the car and know that the guy
drove under someone and destroyed the hood and fr fenders, the car was also
stolen and striped, he put evrything back togeter and drove it for a while
then traded me, i see now why he was eager to get rid of it.
so the pulling is probably the toe/ joints and rubbers...and i should make
sure that if i tighten them or replace them that its when the car is sitting
on the ground... i think i got that much ill def. go rebuilt on the cv joint..
.. this is all so new, and again thanks for the help!


--
Message posted via http://www.carkb.com