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blower resistor values?
does anyone know what these values are supposed to be? my 89 civic has
just burned out the lowest speed resistor - a common failing, and i'm contemplating repair. i have the two larger values as 0.4 and 1.2 ohms, but does anyone know the other? |
Re: blower resistor values?
On Dec 24, 9:48 am, jim beam <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> does anyone know what these values are supposed to be? my 89 civic has > just burned out the lowest speed resistor - a common failing, and i'm > contemplating repair. i have the two larger values as 0.4 and 1.2 ohms, > but does anyone know the other? Using the old resistor pack from my 91 Civic LX and the drawing of the plug at http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread...resistor+ohms: Resistance across Terminals, Ohms 1 to 2 =~ 1.6 1 to 3 =~ 0.8 3 to 4 =~ 0.2 to 0.4 (bounces around) I trust you are aware you can buy an aftermarket resistor pack that fits perfectly from Napa for around $30. At least, the Napa one worked great on my 91 Civic and should be the same for your CRX. |
Re: blower resistor values?
On 12/24/2009 09:19 AM, Elle wrote:
> On Dec 24, 9:48�am, jim beam<m...@privacy.net> wrote: >> does anyone know what these values are supposed to be? �my 89 civic has >> just burned out the lowest speed resistor - a common failing, and i'm >> contemplating repair. �i have the two larger values as 0.4 and 1.2 ohms, >> but does anyone know the other? > > Using the old resistor pack from my 91 Civic LX and the drawing of the > plug at http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread...resistor+ohms: > > Resistance across Terminals, Ohms > 1 to 2 =~ 1.6 > 1 to 3 =~ 0.8 > 3 to 4 =~ 0.2 to 0.4 (bounces around) > > I trust you are aware you can buy an aftermarket resistor pack that > fits perfectly from Napa for around $30. At least, the Napa one worked > great on my 91 Civic and should be the same for your CRX. new oem is $25 http://www.bkhondaparts.com/billkay/...h&hidIrno=|005 but i'm just messing about. i have some constantan wire and was contemplating just winding a new one. thanks though elle. |
Re: blower resistor values?
On Dec 24, 10:32 am, jim beam <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> On 12/24/2009 09:19 AM, Elle wrote: > > > > > On Dec 24, 9:48 am, jim beam<m...@privacy.net> wrote: > >> does anyone know what these values are supposed to be? my 89 civic has > >> just burned out the lowest speed resistor - a common failing, and i'm > >> contemplating repair. i have the two larger values as 0.4 and 1.2 ohms, > >> but does anyone know the other? > > > Using the old resistor pack from my 91 Civic LX and the drawing of the > > plug athttp://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2677702&highlight=blower+r... > > > Resistance across Terminals, Ohms > > 1 to 2 =~ 1.6 > > 1 to 3 =~ 0.8 > > 3 to 4 =~ 0.2 to 0.4 (bounces around) > > > I trust you are aware you can buy an aftermarket resistor pack that > > fits perfectly from Napa for around $30. At least, the Napa one worked > > great on my 91 Civic and should be the same for your CRX. > > new oem is $25 Expedience. Plus shipping and handling gets the price up around $30. As you know. ;-) For the archives, Autozone.com has the resistor pack at three different prices: $18, $24, and $36. > http://www.bkhondaparts.com/billkay/...1=CRX&c....005 > > but i'm just messing about. i have some constantan wire and was > contemplating just winding a new one. thanks though elle. I figured you were doing the hobby thing. You're welcome and enjoy. |
Re: blower resistor values?
On 12/24/2009 09:44 AM, Elle wrote:
> On Dec 24, 10:32�am, jim beam<m...@privacy.net> wrote: >> On 12/24/2009 09:19 AM, Elle wrote: >> >> >> >>> On Dec 24, 9:48 am, jim beam<m...@privacy.net> �wrote: >>>> does anyone know what these values are supposed to be? my 89 civic has >>>> just burned out the lowest speed resistor - a common failing, and i'm >>>> contemplating repair. i have the two larger values as 0.4 and 1.2 ohms, >>>> but does anyone know the other? >> >>> Using the old resistor pack from my 91 Civic LX and the drawing of the >>> plug athttp://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2677702&highlight=blower+r... >> >>> Resistance across Terminals, Ohms >>> 1 to 2 =~ 1.6 >>> 1 to 3 =~ 0.8 >>> 3 to 4 =~ 0.2 to 0.4 (bounces around) >> >>> I trust you are aware you can buy an aftermarket resistor pack that >>> fits perfectly from Napa for around $30. At least, the Napa one worked >>> great on my 91 Civic and should be the same for your CRX. >> >> new oem is $25 > > Expedience. Plus shipping and handling gets the price up around $30. > As you know. ;-) > > For the archives, Autozone.com has the resistor pack at three > different prices: $18, $24, and $36. > >> http://www.bkhondaparts.com/billkay/...y1=CRX&c...005 >> >> but i'm just messing about. �i have some constantan wire and was >> contemplating just winding a new one. �thanks though elle. > > I figured you were doing the hobby thing. You're welcome and enjoy. i figured the scale 0.4, 0.8, 1.6 made the most sense, so wound my new resistor accordingly. it turns out, attachment is non-trivial because the original wires are crimped into position under the solder, and re-crimping on the original posts requires tools and precision i don't have. additionally, resistor wire does not solder readily with non-corrosive rosin flux, so again, the crimping is a factor in replacement. i ended up using some brass crimps from some terminal ends and soldering in addition. the result is not attractive to look at, took quite some time, and longevity is to be determined. bottom line, for anyone but the most tight-fisted, i'd spend the $25 and simply buy new. |
Re: blower resistor values?
jim beam wrote:
> On 12/24/2009 09:44 AM, Elle wrote: >> On Dec 24, 10:32�am, jim beam<m...@privacy.net> wrote: >>> On 12/24/2009 09:19 AM, Elle wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Dec 24, 9:48 am, jim beam<m...@privacy.net> �wrote: >>>>> does anyone know what these values are supposed to be? my 89 civic has >>>>> just burned out the lowest speed resistor - a common failing, and i'm >>>>> contemplating repair. i have the two larger values as 0.4 and 1.2 >>>>> ohms, >>>>> but does anyone know the other? >>> >>>> Using the old resistor pack from my 91 Civic LX and the drawing of the >>>> plug >>>> athttp://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2677702&highlight=blower+r... >>>> >>> >>>> Resistance across Terminals, Ohms >>>> 1 to 2 =~ 1.6 >>>> 1 to 3 =~ 0.8 >>>> 3 to 4 =~ 0.2 to 0.4 (bounces around) >>> >>>> I trust you are aware you can buy an aftermarket resistor pack that >>>> fits perfectly from Napa for around $30. At least, the Napa one worked >>>> great on my 91 Civic and should be the same for your CRX. >>> >>> new oem is $25 >> >> Expedience. Plus shipping and handling gets the price up around $30. >> As you know. ;-) >> >> For the archives, Autozone.com has the resistor pack at three >> different prices: $18, $24, and $36. >> >>> http://www.bkhondaparts.com/billkay/...y1=CRX&c...005 >>> >>> >>> but i'm just messing about. �i have some constantan wire and was >>> contemplating just winding a new one. �thanks though elle. >> >> I figured you were doing the hobby thing. You're welcome and enjoy. > > i figured the scale 0.4, 0.8, 1.6 made the most sense, so wound my new > resistor accordingly. it turns out, attachment is non-trivial because > the original wires are crimped into position under the solder, and > re-crimping on the original posts requires tools and precision i don't > have. additionally, resistor wire does not solder readily with > non-corrosive rosin flux, so again, the crimping is a factor in > replacement. > > i ended up using some brass crimps from some terminal ends and soldering > in addition. the result is not attractive to look at, took quite some > time, and longevity is to be determined. bottom line, for anyone but > the most tight-fisted, i'd spend the $25 and simply buy new. I'm not "tight fisted," merely frugal... That said, the low range resistor on two of my Gen 2 Civics are shot as well. I would only attribute this to too low of a wattage rating. I would imagine that fitting an off-the-shelf higher wattage unit would fix the problem. JT |
Re: blower resistor values?
On 12/24/2009 06:34 PM, Grumpy AuContraire wrote:
> jim beam wrote: >> On 12/24/2009 09:44 AM, Elle wrote: >>> On Dec 24, 10:32�am, jim beam<m...@privacy.net> wrote: >>>> On 12/24/2009 09:19 AM, Elle wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Dec 24, 9:48 am, jim beam<m...@privacy.net> �wrote: >>>>>> does anyone know what these values are supposed to be? my 89 civic >>>>>> has >>>>>> just burned out the lowest speed resistor - a common failing, and i'm >>>>>> contemplating repair. i have the two larger values as 0.4 and 1.2 >>>>>> ohms, >>>>>> but does anyone know the other? >>>> >>>>> Using the old resistor pack from my 91 Civic LX and the drawing of the >>>>> plug >>>>> athttp://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2677702&highlight=blower+r... >>>>> >>>> >>>>> Resistance across Terminals, Ohms >>>>> 1 to 2 =~ 1.6 >>>>> 1 to 3 =~ 0.8 >>>>> 3 to 4 =~ 0.2 to 0.4 (bounces around) >>>> >>>>> I trust you are aware you can buy an aftermarket resistor pack that >>>>> fits perfectly from Napa for around $30. At least, the Napa one worked >>>>> great on my 91 Civic and should be the same for your CRX. >>>> >>>> new oem is $25 >>> >>> Expedience. Plus shipping and handling gets the price up around $30. >>> As you know. ;-) >>> >>> For the archives, Autozone.com has the resistor pack at three >>> different prices: $18, $24, and $36. >>> >>>> http://www.bkhondaparts.com/billkay/...y1=CRX&c...005 >>>> >>>> >>>> but i'm just messing about. �i have some constantan wire and was >>>> contemplating just winding a new one. �thanks though elle. >>> >>> I figured you were doing the hobby thing. You're welcome and enjoy. >> >> i figured the scale 0.4, 0.8, 1.6 made the most sense, so wound my new >> resistor accordingly. it turns out, attachment is non-trivial because >> the original wires are crimped into position under the solder, and >> re-crimping on the original posts requires tools and precision i don't >> have. additionally, resistor wire does not solder readily with >> non-corrosive rosin flux, so again, the crimping is a factor in >> replacement. >> >> i ended up using some brass crimps from some terminal ends and >> soldering in addition. the result is not attractive to look at, took >> quite some time, and longevity is to be determined. bottom line, for >> anyone but the most tight-fisted, i'd spend the $25 and simply buy new. > > > I'm not "tight fisted," merely frugal... > > That said, the low range resistor on two of my Gen 2 Civics are shot as > well. I would only attribute this to too low of a wattage rating. I > would imagine that fitting an off-the-shelf higher wattage unit would > fix the problem. > > JT yes, but it would need to be high wattage. >10W i'd guess - you can figure it out if you know the voltage drop over the motor - but i don't. the oem resistor sits in the air stream of the motor and is thus air cooled - heat dissipation isn't much of a problem. your resistor would have to be similarly configured. the reason the oem resistor fails is general corrosion and oxidation after all those years operating in dirty air and at high temperature. |
Re: blower resistor values?
On Dec 24, 7:34 pm, Grumpy AuContraire <Grumpy...@GrumpyvilleNOT.com>
wrote: > the low range resistor on two of my Gen 2 Civics are shot as > well. How many years do you think they had on them? My 91 Civic's had not failed. I mistakenly replaced it earlier this year and then found the problem was actually the fan switch in the climate control unit. Granted there are many reports of these resistor packs failing, but it seems they tend to last well over ten years. |
Re: blower resistor values?
Elle wrote:
> On Dec 24, 7:34 pm, Grumpy AuContraire <Grumpy...@GrumpyvilleNOT.com> > wrote: >> the low range resistor on two of my Gen 2 Civics are shot as >> well. > > How many years do you think they had on them? > > My 91 Civic's had not failed. I mistakenly replaced it earlier this > year and then found the problem was actually the fan switch in the > climate control unit. > > Granted there are many reports of these resistor packs failing, but it > seems they tend to last well over ten years. I'm just going by what I got when I bought 'em. The first two cars have faulty low speed resistors. Neither car has more than 130K on 'em. OTOH, I now drive an '82 1500 automatic and low speed is fine. It has 135K on it. I just stripped and junked an '83 1500 auto that had 127K and the resistor was fine on it. Go figure... I kind of enjoy tinkering with the early Civics. Great engineering and quite simple by today's standards. JT |
Re: blower resistor values?
jim beam wrote:
> On 12/24/2009 06:34 PM, Grumpy AuContraire wrote: >> jim beam wrote: >>> On 12/24/2009 09:44 AM, Elle wrote: >>>> On Dec 24, 10:32�am, jim beam<m...@privacy.net> wrote: >>>>> On 12/24/2009 09:19 AM, Elle wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On Dec 24, 9:48 am, jim beam<m...@privacy.net> �wrote: >>>>>>> does anyone know what these values are supposed to be? my 89 civic >>>>>>> has >>>>>>> just burned out the lowest speed resistor - a common failing, and >>>>>>> i'm >>>>>>> contemplating repair. i have the two larger values as 0.4 and 1.2 >>>>>>> ohms, >>>>>>> but does anyone know the other? >>>>> >>>>>> Using the old resistor pack from my 91 Civic LX and the drawing of >>>>>> the >>>>>> plug >>>>>> athttp://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2677702&highlight=blower+r... >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Resistance across Terminals, Ohms >>>>>> 1 to 2 =~ 1.6 >>>>>> 1 to 3 =~ 0.8 >>>>>> 3 to 4 =~ 0.2 to 0.4 (bounces around) >>>>> >>>>>> I trust you are aware you can buy an aftermarket resistor pack that >>>>>> fits perfectly from Napa for around $30. At least, the Napa one >>>>>> worked >>>>>> great on my 91 Civic and should be the same for your CRX. >>>>> >>>>> new oem is $25 >>>> >>>> Expedience. Plus shipping and handling gets the price up around $30. >>>> As you know. ;-) >>>> >>>> For the archives, Autozone.com has the resistor pack at three >>>> different prices: $18, $24, and $36. >>>> >>>>> http://www.bkhondaparts.com/billkay/...y1=CRX&c...005 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> but i'm just messing about. �i have some constantan wire and was >>>>> contemplating just winding a new one. �thanks though elle. >>>> >>>> I figured you were doing the hobby thing. You're welcome and enjoy. >>> >>> i figured the scale 0.4, 0.8, 1.6 made the most sense, so wound my new >>> resistor accordingly. it turns out, attachment is non-trivial because >>> the original wires are crimped into position under the solder, and >>> re-crimping on the original posts requires tools and precision i don't >>> have. additionally, resistor wire does not solder readily with >>> non-corrosive rosin flux, so again, the crimping is a factor in >>> replacement. >>> >>> i ended up using some brass crimps from some terminal ends and >>> soldering in addition. the result is not attractive to look at, took >>> quite some time, and longevity is to be determined. bottom line, for >>> anyone but the most tight-fisted, i'd spend the $25 and simply buy new. >> >> >> I'm not "tight fisted," merely frugal... >> >> That said, the low range resistor on two of my Gen 2 Civics are shot as >> well. I would only attribute this to too low of a wattage rating. I >> would imagine that fitting an off-the-shelf higher wattage unit would >> fix the problem. >> >> JT > > yes, but it would need to be high wattage. >10W i'd guess - you can > figure it out if you know the voltage drop over the motor - but i don't. > > the oem resistor sits in the air stream of the motor and is thus air > cooled - heat dissipation isn't much of a problem. your resistor would > have to be similarly configured. the reason the oem resistor fails is > general corrosion and oxidation after all those years operating in dirty > air and at high temperature. Kind of reminds me of way back in 1990 when I worked on Diego Garcia, my trusty pre Mac Plus started acting funny. I suspected a failing power supply but I managed to finish out the contract before total failure. When I got back in Austin, I took it over to a Mac Guru and he confirmed that indeed, the power supply was on its way out but stated fixing it would be simple. He ended up by using a few automotive diodes etc and the damned thing would probably outlive me! Nothing like a little overkill! JT |
Re: blower resistor values?
Grumpy AuContraire <Grumpy...@GrumpyvilleNOT.com> wrote:
> I kind of enjoy tinkering with the early Civics. Great engineering and > quite simple by today's standards. I bought a 2003 Civic LX (81k miles at purchase) in late September and then sold my 93 Civic DX. In the last few months I have been studying the 2003's engineering. It will need a new timing belt late next year, for one, and I have almost finished the homemade hex crank pulley holding tool for it (thanks to tegger's site, Safety Steve's contribution on this subject and my local Habitat for Humanity "Re- Store," having all the pipe fittings for cheap) . I solved an SRS problem on it (likewise after much research and home-made tool development). While I miss the familiarity I had with my 90s Civics, I am feeling like the 2001-2005 Civics do not require too much new mastery. Or maybe it is just that the new adventure is fun. The one drawback is that my local U-Pull-It yard does not have many of this generation of Civic. Certainly per your suggestions in the past about the fun of really old Hondas, I contemplated something from the 80s. But the "cool" factor set in, plus maybe a little mid-life crisis, plus a bit of the 2003 Civic was priced about $1000 below its KBB value, due to the SRS light being on and one broken lock (both of which I have repaired perfectly). I figured Mr. Beam was going to try to improve on Honda's engineering of the resistor pack. His effort reminds me of you and me. One always learns a lot by these little DIY engineering projects. Happy holidays to all. |
Re: blower resistor values?
On 12/26/2009 08:29 AM, Elle wrote:
> Grumpy AuContraire<Grumpy...@GrumpyvilleNOT.com> wrote: >> I kind of enjoy tinkering with the early Civics. �Great engineering and >> quite simple by today's standards. > > I bought a 2003 Civic LX (81k miles at purchase) in late September and > then sold my 93 Civic DX. In the last few months I have been studying > the 2003's engineering. It will need a new timing belt late next year, > for one, and I have almost finished the homemade hex crank pulley > holding tool for it (thanks to tegger's site, Safety Steve's > contribution on this subject and my local Habitat for Humanity "Re- > Store," having all the pipe fittings for cheap) . I solved an SRS > problem on it (likewise after much research and home-made tool > development). While I miss the familiarity I had with my 90s Civics, I > am feeling like the 2001-2005 Civics do not require too much new > mastery. Or maybe it is just that the new adventure is fun. The one > drawback is that my local U-Pull-It yard does not have many of this > generation of Civic. > > Certainly per your suggestions in the past about the fun of really old > Hondas, I contemplated something from the 80s. But the "cool" factor > set in, plus maybe a little mid-life crisis, plus a bit of the 2003 > Civic was priced about $1000 below its KBB value, due to the SRS light > being on and one broken lock (both of which I have repaired > perfectly). > > I figured Mr. Beam was going to try to improve on Honda's engineering > of the resistor pack. of course! the blown original 1.6 ohm is 28 gauge - waaay skinny and therefore most susceptible to corrosion. my homemade is 22 gauge. that's double the diameter. if the connections hold up, the wire will last >> another 20 years! i would ask though, wtf were honda thinking when they bought this crap from stanley in the first place? any materials guy looking at that could have told you it's inadequate wrt corrosion, and it's not like stanley shouldn't have had access to people with that knowledge. especially if they're selling millions of the things. same to honda - they should have known better. indeed, later designs do indeed use thicker gauge wire - duh. and while i'm talking honda electrics, i could make similar comments about their main relay [mechanical/thermal load on a solder joint??? duh!] and their distributor's igniter unit [a remarkably retarded/inadequate thermal pathway]. oh, and my absolute favorite, the 89 civic/crx's gauge light dimmer unit - another stanley inadequacy classic. http://www.flickr.com/photos/38636024@N00/4215776191/ that power transistor is rated at >100W, so in theory, it has plenty of capacity with at least a 5x margin. but that thing has a heat sink that can maybe dissipate 1W [ignoring the fact that it's inside a box also] and thus overheats like crazy if you actually dim the gauge lights - and was subsequently modified on the 90 civic/crx's. and here's one way to fix the overheating: http://www.flickr.com/photos/38636024@N00/4215776193/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/38636024@N00/4215776197/ > His effort reminds me of you and me. One always > learns a lot by these little DIY engineering projects. > > Happy holidays to all. |
Re: blower resistor values?
On Dec 26, 11:08 am, jim beam <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> On 12/26/2009 08:29 AM, Elle wrote: > > > > > Grumpy AuContraire<Grumpy...@GrumpyvilleNOT.com> wrote: > >> I kind of enjoy tinkering with the early Civics. Great engineering and > >> quite simple by today's standards. > > > I bought a 2003 Civic LX (81k miles at purchase) in late September and > > then sold my 93 Civic DX. In the last few months I have been studying > > the 2003's engineering. It will need a new timing belt late next year, > > for one, and I have almost finished the homemade hex crank pulley > > holding tool for it (thanks to tegger's site, Safety Steve's > > contribution on this subject and my local Habitat for Humanity "Re- > > Store," having all the pipe fittings for cheap) . I solved an SRS > > problem on it (likewise after much research and home-made tool > > development). While I miss the familiarity I had with my 90s Civics, I > > am feeling like the 2001-2005 Civics do not require too much new > > mastery. Or maybe it is just that the new adventure is fun. The one > > drawback is that my local U-Pull-It yard does not have many of this > > generation of Civic. > > > Certainly per your suggestions in the past about the fun of really old > > Hondas, I contemplated something from the 80s. But the "cool" factor > > set in, plus maybe a little mid-life crisis, plus a bit of the 2003 > > Civic was priced about $1000 below its KBB value, due to the SRS light > > being on and one broken lock (both of which I have repaired > > perfectly). > > > I figured Mr. Beam was going to try to improve on Honda's engineering > > of the resistor pack. > > of course! the blown original 1.6 ohm is 28 gauge - waaay skinny and > therefore most susceptible to corrosion. my homemade is 22 gauge. > that's double the diameter. if the connections hold up, the wire will > last >> another 20 years! > > i would ask though, wtf were honda thinking when they bought this crap > from stanley in the first place? Yeah, really. The danged thing lasted only 20 years. Twenty years! What where they thinking? I say, sue the bustards! <wink> > and while i'm talking honda electrics, i could make similar comments > about their main relay [mechanical/thermal load on a solder joint??? > duh!] and their distributor's igniter unit [a remarkably > retarded/inadequate thermal pathway]. Here you have a point. I try to look at the bigger picture: The circa 1990 Civics are still the most reliable car around and darn cheap to repair. |
Re: blower resistor values?
On 12/26/2009 10:24 AM, Elle wrote:
> On Dec 26, 11:08�am, jim beam<m...@privacy.net> wrote: >> On 12/26/2009 08:29 AM, Elle wrote: >> >> >> >>> Grumpy AuContraire<Grumpy...@GrumpyvilleNOT.com> �wrote: >>>> I kind of enjoy tinkering with the early Civics. Great engineering and >>>> quite simple by today's standards. >> >>> I bought a 2003 Civic LX (81k miles at purchase) in late September and >>> then sold my 93 Civic DX. In the last few months I have been studying >>> the 2003's engineering. It will need a new timing belt late next year, >>> for one, and I have almost finished the homemade hex crank pulley >>> holding tool for it (thanks to tegger's site, Safety Steve's >>> contribution on this subject and my local Habitat for Humanity "Re- >>> Store," having all the pipe fittings for cheap) . I solved an SRS >>> problem on it (likewise after much research and home-made tool >>> development). While I miss the familiarity I had with my 90s Civics, I >>> am feeling like the 2001-2005 Civics do not require too much new >>> mastery. Or maybe it is just that the new adventure is fun. The one >>> drawback is that my local U-Pull-It yard does not have many of this >>> generation of Civic. >> >>> Certainly per your suggestions in the past about the fun of really old >>> Hondas, I contemplated something from the 80s. But the "cool" factor >>> set in, plus maybe a little mid-life crisis, plus a bit of the 2003 >>> Civic was priced about $1000 below its KBB value, due to the SRS light >>> being on and one broken lock (both of which I have repaired >>> perfectly). >> >>> I figured Mr. Beam was going to try to improve on Honda's engineering >>> of the resistor pack. >> >> of course! �the blown original 1.6 ohm is 28 gauge - waaay skinny and >> therefore most susceptible to corrosion. �my homemade is 22 gauge. >> that's double the diameter. �if the connections hold up, the wire will >> last>> another 20 years! >> >> i would ask though, wtf were honda thinking when they bought this crap >> from stanley in the first place? � > > Yeah, really. The danged thing lasted only 20 years. Twenty years! > What where they thinking? I say, sue the bustards!<wink> > >> and while i'm talking honda electrics, i could make similar comments >> about their main relay [mechanical/thermal load on a solder joint??? >> duh!] and their distributor's igniter unit [a remarkably >> retarded/inadequate thermal pathway]. > > Here you have a point. I try to look at the bigger picture: The circa > 1990 Civics are still the most reliable car around and darn cheap to > repair. > most of the hondas of that generation were mechanically excellent [and i would argue, their finest work ever], and in many respects, the later generations have actually been retrograde designs. for instance, the rear sway bar on the 88-91 civic si uses adequate lever moments to do the job. the later ones, for reasons known only to someone without adequate comprehension, have almost no lever moment, and thus effectively only make the rear springs stiffer without addressing body roll. duh. another feature of that generation civic is the susceptibility to cross winds - almost none! the 92-95 and 96-00 generations get blown about like tumbleweeds. and here is the reason why: http://www.tonyfoale.com/Articles/Aerodynamics/AERO.htm see fig 4. later generations of hondas have got it right again, but it took two generations of ignorance before they rediscovered what their 88-91 team evidently knew. |
Re: blower resistor values?
jim beam <me@privacy.net> wrote in
news:HeSdnQFz5eiuzKvWnZ2dnUVZ_rCdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t: > and while i'm talking honda electrics, i could make similar comments > about their main relay [mechanical/thermal load on a solder joint??? Honda didn't make the relay,they just specified it and a supplier made it to meet those specs.Honda doesn't look inside them. And generally,the relay lasts well beyond the car's warranty period. > duh!] and their distributor's igniter unit [a remarkably > retarded/inadequate thermal pathway]. how do you know igniters are failing due to heat? -- Jim Yanik jyanik at localnet dot com |
Re: blower resistor values?
On 12/26/2009 10:44 AM, Jim Yanik wrote:
> jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote in > news:HeSdnQFz5eiuzKvWnZ2dnUVZ_rCdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t: > > >> and while i'm talking honda electrics, i could make similar comments >> about their main relay [mechanical/thermal load on a solder joint??? > > Honda didn't make the relay,they just specified it and a supplier made it > to meet those specs.Honda doesn't look inside them. most unlikely that they didn't. and most suppliers make to customer spec, not the other way around. > And generally,the relay lasts well beyond the car's warranty period. still no excuse. the reason for failure is obvious to anyone experienced in that stuff - mitsuba should have known better. and honda should have know better. > > >> duh!] and their distributor's igniter unit [a remarkably >> retarded/inadequate thermal pathway]. > > how do you know igniters are failing due to heat? i don't, but i know enough, and have seen enough failures, to be pretty confident of that diagnosis. i also know that the later designs that have the igniter connecting directly to the side wall of the distributor, thus providing only one thermal interface, not two like the earlier designs, hardly ever fail. |
Re: blower resistor values?
jim beam <me@privacy.net> wrote in
news:XYGdnb_xrdHwwKvWnZ2dnUVZ_vGdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t: > On 12/26/2009 10:44 AM, Jim Yanik wrote: >> jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote in >> news:HeSdnQFz5eiuzKvWnZ2dnUVZ_rCdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t: >> >> >>> and while i'm talking honda electrics, i could make similar comments >>> about their main relay [mechanical/thermal load on a solder joint??? >> >> Honda didn't make the relay,they just specified it and a supplier >> made it to meet those specs.Honda doesn't look inside them. > > most unlikely that they didn't. and most suppliers make to customer > spec, not the other way around. Honda set the specs,and some other company MADE the relay to Honda's specs(or already had one on the shelf),which does NOT include the interior design of the relay. All Honda cares about is a relay that works on 12V,has "N" switch contacts that can handle "X" amps,and has a lifetime of at least "Y" operations,and that fits the physical dimensions they specified. > > >> And generally,the relay lasts well beyond the car's warranty period. > > still no excuse. Yes,it IS a valid "excuse". (actually a FACT,not "excuse". electrical parts are warranteed for only so long.After that,it's a crapshoot.Things don't last forever.even hybrid circuits have component drift,metal migration in the IC's and semicounductors,and are subject to surges. > the reason for failure is obvious to anyone > experienced in that stuff - mitsuba should have known better. and > honda should have know better. > > >> >> >>> duh!] and their distributor's igniter unit [a remarkably >>> retarded/inadequate thermal pathway]. >> >> how do you know igniters are failing due to heat? > > i don't, but i know enough, and have seen enough failures, to be > pretty confident of that diagnosis. Conflicting statements. You don't know HOW the igniter failed,yet you can be confident of a "diagnosis" of thermal failure;doesn't make sense. Just because you've seen a lot of igniter failures doesn't mean you know HOW they failed.Probably not even the first 3 causes of failure. It appears to me that you KNOW -nothing- on igniter failure causes. You just have a hunch. > i also know that the later > designs that have the igniter connecting directly to the side wall of > the distributor, thus providing only one thermal interface, not two > like the earlier designs, hardly ever fail. Still doesn't -mean- anything. -- Jim Yanik jyanik at localnet dot com |
Re: blower resistor values?
On 12/26/2009 03:38 PM, Jim Yanik wrote:
> jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote in > news:XYGdnb_xrdHwwKvWnZ2dnUVZ_vGdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t: > >> On 12/26/2009 10:44 AM, Jim Yanik wrote: >>> jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote in >>> news:HeSdnQFz5eiuzKvWnZ2dnUVZ_rCdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t: >>> >>> >>>> and while i'm talking honda electrics, i could make similar comments >>>> about their main relay [mechanical/thermal load on a solder joint??? >>> >>> Honda didn't make the relay,they just specified it and a supplier >>> made it to meet those specs.Honda doesn't look inside them. >> >> most unlikely that they didn't. and most suppliers make to customer >> spec, not the other way around. > > Honda set the specs,and some other company MADE the relay to Honda's > specs(or already had one on the shelf),which does NOT include the interior > design of the relay. > All Honda cares about is a relay that works on 12V,has "N" switch contacts > that can handle "X" amps,and has a lifetime of at least "Y" operations,and > that fits the physical dimensions they specified. no dude - specs are more complicated than that. you look at the differing qualities of different componentry - the ecu for example. those things are ultra high spec componentry throughout, tested up the wazoo, de-moisturized, conformal coating sealed, and tested again. and in service, they almost never fail. you'd better believe that honda was all over the spec in the minutest detail. > >> >> >>> And generally,the relay lasts well beyond the car's warranty period. >> >> still no excuse. > > Yes,it IS a valid "excuse". (actually a FACT,not "excuse". > electrical parts are warranteed for only so long.After that,it's a > crapshoot.Things don't last forever.even hybrid circuits have component > drift,metal migration in the IC's and semicounductors,and are subject to > surges. dude, that's bullshit. you know how long this stuff lasts if you've done your homework correctly. there's' absolutely zero excuse for one component to be a constant weak point, generation after generation [main relay]. the /reason/ it happened though is because someone like you simply /assumed/ "oh, it's just a relay" and didn't bother to test properly. or even inspect inside the box! that doesn't absolve mitsuba, who also should have known better, but it's ultimately honda's responsibility for not bothering with something any moderately competent and experienced electrical tech should have known. > >> the reason for failure is obvious to anyone >> experienced in that stuff - mitsuba should have known better. and >> honda should have know better. >> >> >>> >>> >>>> duh!] and their distributor's igniter unit [a remarkably >>>> retarded/inadequate thermal pathway]. >>> >>> how do you know igniters are failing due to heat? >> >> i don't, but i know enough, and have seen enough failures, to be >> pretty confident of that diagnosis. > > Conflicting statements. er, no they're not. read that sentence again. > You don't know HOW the igniter failed,yet you can be confident of a > "diagnosis" of thermal failure;doesn't make sense. see above. and apply a little logic. > Just because you've seen a lot of igniter failures doesn't mean you know > HOW they failed.Probably not even the first 3 causes of failure. > It appears to me that you KNOW -nothing- on igniter failure causes. > You just have a hunch. i know about heat paths, and i know that if one has a weak heat path and fails, and if another that has a good heat path doesn't, then heat is by far the most likely cause of failure. if you can't see that, then you're either being willfully myopic, or you're simply not getting it. > >> i also know that the later >> designs that have the igniter connecting directly to the side wall of >> the distributor, thus providing only one thermal interface, not two >> like the earlier designs, hardly ever fail. > > > Still doesn't -mean- anything. if you can't follow logical analysis, i guess that could be true! |
Re: blower resistor values?
jim beam <me@privacy.net> wrote in
news:Ct6dnY0RYoM2P6vWnZ2dnUVZ_sKdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t: > On 12/26/2009 03:38 PM, Jim Yanik wrote: >> jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote in >> news:XYGdnb_xrdHwwKvWnZ2dnUVZ_vGdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t: >> >>> On 12/26/2009 10:44 AM, Jim Yanik wrote: >>>> jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote in >>>> news:HeSdnQFz5eiuzKvWnZ2dnUVZ_rCdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t: >>>> >>>> >>>>> and while i'm talking honda electrics, i could make similar >>>>> comments about their main relay [mechanical/thermal load on a >>>>> solder joint??? >>>> >>>> Honda didn't make the relay,they just specified it and a supplier >>>> made it to meet those specs.Honda doesn't look inside them. >>> >>> most unlikely that they didn't. and most suppliers make to customer >>> spec, not the other way around. >> >> Honda set the specs,and some other company MADE the relay to Honda's >> specs(or already had one on the shelf),which does NOT include the >> interior design of the relay. >> All Honda cares about is a relay that works on 12V,has "N" switch >> contacts that can handle "X" amps,and has a lifetime of at least "Y" >> operations,and that fits the physical dimensions they specified. > > no dude - specs are more complicated than that. you look at the > differing qualities of different componentry - the ecu for example. we're not talking about ECUs,we're talking RELAYS. big difference. > those things are ultra high spec componentry throughout, tested up the > wazoo, de-moisturized, conformal coating sealed, and tested again. > and in service, they almost never fail. you'd better believe that > honda was all over the spec in the minutest detail. ECUs are high cost,critical components. and Honda or any other manufacturer is not going to go to the same level of engineering detail on a ordinary relay. > > >> >>> >>> >>>> And generally,the relay lasts well beyond the car's warranty >>>> period. >>> >>> still no excuse. >> >> Yes,it IS a valid "excuse". (actually a FACT,not "excuse". >> electrical parts are warranteed for only so long.After that,it's a >> crapshoot.Things don't last forever.even hybrid circuits have >> component drift,metal migration in the IC's and semicounductors,and >> are subject to surges. > > dude, that's bullshit. you know how long this stuff lasts if you've > done your homework correctly. there's' absolutely zero excuse for one > component to be a constant weak point, generation after generation > [main relay]. the /reason/ it happened though is because someone like > you simply /assumed/ "oh, it's just a relay" and didn't bother to test > properly. or even inspect inside the box! Got news for ya: relays DO wear out. Their contacts eventually erode,or they weld together.Some have the plating wear off and then their life is shortened.Coils can open,or a winding short to one next to it. you can get bad batches of parts,too. > > that doesn't absolve mitsuba, who also should have known better, but > it's ultimately honda's responsibility for not bothering with > something any moderately competent and experienced electrical tech > should have known. > > >> >>> the reason for failure is obvious to anyone >>> experienced in that stuff - mitsuba should have known better. and >>> honda should have know better. >>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> duh!] and their distributor's igniter unit [a remarkably >>>>> retarded/inadequate thermal pathway]. >>>> >>>> how do you know igniters are failing due to heat? >>> >>> i don't, but i know enough, and have seen enough failures, to be >>> pretty confident of that diagnosis. >> >> Conflicting statements. > > er, no they're not. read that sentence again. you may be confident of your "analysis",but so what? you have no DATA to back it up. You -know- nothing. > > >> You don't know HOW the igniter failed,yet you can be confident of a >> "diagnosis" of thermal failure;doesn't make sense. > > see above. and apply a little logic. > > >> Just because you've seen a lot of igniter failures doesn't mean you >> know HOW they failed.Probably not even the first 3 causes of failure. >> It appears to me that you KNOW -nothing- on igniter failure causes. >> You just have a hunch. > > i know about heat paths, and i know that if one has a weak heat path > and fails, and if another that has a good heat path doesn't, then heat > is by far the most likely cause of failure. Bad logic. Particularly whan you DONT KNOW WHAT THE FAILURES WERE! Are the components INSIDE the new igniters the same as the original igniters? do you even know? >if you can't see that, > then you're either being willfully myopic, or you're simply not > getting it. you're the one "not getting it". > > >> >>> i also know that the later >>> designs that have the igniter connecting directly to the side wall >>> of the distributor, thus providing only one thermal interface, not >>> two like the earlier designs, hardly ever fail. >> >> >> Still doesn't -mean- anything. > > if you can't follow logical analysis, i guess that could be true! > > > You just don't know what you're talking about. But there's no telling you anything. -- Jim Yanik jyanik at localnet dot com |
Re: blower resistor values?
On 12/26/2009 07:24 PM, Jim Yanik wrote:
> jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote in > news:Ct6dnY0RYoM2P6vWnZ2dnUVZ_sKdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t: > >> On 12/26/2009 03:38 PM, Jim Yanik wrote: >>> jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote in >>> news:XYGdnb_xrdHwwKvWnZ2dnUVZ_vGdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t: >>> >>>> On 12/26/2009 10:44 AM, Jim Yanik wrote: >>>>> jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote in >>>>> news:HeSdnQFz5eiuzKvWnZ2dnUVZ_rCdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> and while i'm talking honda electrics, i could make similar >>>>>> comments about their main relay [mechanical/thermal load on a >>>>>> solder joint??? >>>>> >>>>> Honda didn't make the relay,they just specified it and a supplier >>>>> made it to meet those specs.Honda doesn't look inside them. >>>> >>>> most unlikely that they didn't. and most suppliers make to customer >>>> spec, not the other way around. >>> >>> Honda set the specs,and some other company MADE the relay to Honda's >>> specs(or already had one on the shelf),which does NOT include the >>> interior design of the relay. >>> All Honda cares about is a relay that works on 12V,has "N" switch >>> contacts that can handle "X" amps,and has a lifetime of at least "Y" >>> operations,and that fits the physical dimensions they specified. >> >> no dude - specs are more complicated than that. you look at the >> differing qualities of different componentry - the ecu for example. > > we're not talking about ECUs,we're talking RELAYS. big difference. > >> those things are ultra high spec componentry throughout, tested up the >> wazoo, de-moisturized, conformal coating sealed, and tested again. >> and in service, they almost never fail. you'd better believe that >> honda was all over the spec in the minutest detail. > > ECUs are high cost,critical components. > > and Honda or any other manufacturer is not going to go to the same level of > engineering detail on a ordinary relay. why not? the ecu is made up of weeny little low cost components. lots of them. lots of places to go wrong if, my your logic, no individual one is worth worrying about. > >> >> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> And generally,the relay lasts well beyond the car's warranty >>>>> period. >>>> >>>> still no excuse. >>> >>> Yes,it IS a valid "excuse". (actually a FACT,not "excuse". >>> electrical parts are warranteed for only so long.After that,it's a >>> crapshoot.Things don't last forever.even hybrid circuits have >>> component drift,metal migration in the IC's and semicounductors,and >>> are subject to surges. >> >> dude, that's bullshit. you know how long this stuff lasts if you've >> done your homework correctly. there's' absolutely zero excuse for one >> component to be a constant weak point, generation after generation >> [main relay]. the /reason/ it happened though is because someone like >> you simply /assumed/ "oh, it's just a relay" and didn't bother to test >> properly. or even inspect inside the box! > > Got news for ya: > relays DO wear out. > Their contacts eventually erode,or they weld together.Some have the plating > wear off and then their life is shortened.Coils can open,or a winding short > to one next to it. you can get bad batches of parts,too. and guess what - it's not the contacts failing in these relays!!! it's the solder joints because the solder is taking thermal/mechanical load!!! that's "basic electronics 'how not to' manufacture 101" that anyone using larger hotter electromechanicals learns early on. >> >> that doesn't absolve mitsuba, who also should have known better, but >> it's ultimately honda's responsibility for not bothering with >> something any moderately competent and experienced electrical tech >> should have known. >> >> >>> >>>> the reason for failure is obvious to anyone >>>> experienced in that stuff - mitsuba should have known better. and >>>> honda should have know better. >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> duh!] and their distributor's igniter unit [a remarkably >>>>>> retarded/inadequate thermal pathway]. >>>>> >>>>> how do you know igniters are failing due to heat? >>>> >>>> i don't, but i know enough, and have seen enough failures, to be >>>> pretty confident of that diagnosis. >>> >>> Conflicting statements. >> >> er, no they're not. read that sentence again. > > you may be confident of your "analysis",but so what? > you have no DATA to back it up. You -know- nothing. er, the data is in what i posted there dude. try one more time. >> >> >>> You don't know HOW the igniter failed,yet you can be confident of a >>> "diagnosis" of thermal failure;doesn't make sense. >> >> see above. and apply a little logic. >> >> >>> Just because you've seen a lot of igniter failures doesn't mean you >>> know HOW they failed.Probably not even the first 3 causes of failure. >>> It appears to me that you KNOW -nothing- on igniter failure causes. >>> You just have a hunch. >> >> i know about heat paths, and i know that if one has a weak heat path >> and fails, and if another that has a good heat path doesn't, then heat >> is by far the most likely cause of failure. > > Bad logic. Particularly whan you DONT KNOW WHAT THE FAILURES WERE! > Are the components INSIDE the new igniters the same as the original > igniters? do you even know? here's a logic test for you: if i'm bashing a nail with a hammer, and i miss the nail, and at around that same time, my thumb starts to hurt, do you think the nail missing and the hurting thumb are connected? i mean, i couldn't actually /see/ the hammer hit my thumb because the hammer was literally in the way. putting it another way, what would be the likelihood of my hurting thumb /not/ being hammer strike? because by your logic, my thumb has just been hit by some other random object i also didn't see. > > >> if you can't see that, >> then you're either being willfully myopic, or you're simply not >> getting it. > > you're the one "not getting it". no, i'm the one that's having the temerity to stick to known facts. >> >> >>> >>>> i also know that the later >>>> designs that have the igniter connecting directly to the side wall >>>> of the distributor, thus providing only one thermal interface, not >>>> two like the earlier designs, hardly ever fail. >>> >>> >>> Still doesn't -mean- anything. >> >> if you can't follow logical analysis, i guess that could be true! >> >> >> > > You just don't know what you're talking about. ! > > But there's no telling you anything. sure there is. lots of people tell me lots of things. but admittedly, people that can't pass a basic logic test are going to have a real hard time trying. |
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