Bolt Removal Problems
 

The head on the lower mounting bolt of my 91 Civic's rear left shock absorber
sheared off. Same for the bolt joining the control arm to the trailing arm. From
groups.googling, I see this is a common occurrence. So far I have broken two
screw extractors and one cobalt drill bit. I have got as much PB Blaster
(penetrating oil) in there as I could, short of soaking the whole assembly in a
bucket.

In the past, people have posted that they cut the bolt out.

Is there some kind of small, electric wheel cutter that will fit into this
somewhat tight space to do this?

What cutting points are recommended? Cut the nut, pry apart, then pull off? Then
maybe hammer what remains of the bolt through?

Also, what technique might be appropriate using a torch? I am thinking of buying
one of those $15 ones at True Value hardware IF someone thinks this with
something else is the better route to go.

I do have a used (7k miles old) strut (=spring over shock absorber) and control
arm to replace the old ones, so I can destroy them to my heart's delight, as
long as the car is drivable again within a few hours.

Suggestions welcome.

Re: Bolt Removal Problems
 

Caroline wrote:

> The head on the lower mounting bolt of my 91 Civic's rear left shock absorber
> sheared off. Same for the bolt joining the control arm to the trailing arm. From
> groups.googling, I see this is a common occurrence. So far I have broken two
> screw extractors and one cobalt drill bit. I have got as much PB Blaster
> (penetrating oil) in there as I could, short of soaking the whole assembly in a
> bucket.
>
> In the past, people have posted that they cut the bolt out.
>
> Is there some kind of small, electric wheel cutter that will fit into this
> somewhat tight space to do this?

a regular grinder, with the edge going right into the bolt and nut? or
is it too close quarters?
>
> What cutting points are recommended? Cut the nut, pry apart, then pull off? Then
> maybe hammer what remains of the bolt through?

yup. theres also a "nut breaker" google for that, but i still dunno what
kind of space you have to work with.
>
> Also, what technique might be appropriate using a torch? I am thinking of buying
> one of those $15 ones at True Value hardware IF someone thinks this with
> something else is the better route to go.

a torch is always handy too! supposedly, you want a MAPP torch, since
propane doesnt get hot enough?
>
> I do have a used (7k miles old) strut (=spring over shock absorber) and control
> arm to replace the old ones, so I can destroy them to my heart's delight, as
> long as the car is drivable again within a few hours.

in that case, an angle grinder will cut through anything. hell- try it
all! ive never had to buy a nut breaker, usually the angle grinder does
it all.
>
> Suggestions welcome.
>
>

Re: Bolt Removal Problems
 

Caroline wrote:

> The head on the lower mounting bolt of my 91 Civic's rear left shock absorber
> sheared off. Same for the bolt joining the control arm to the trailing arm. From
> groups.googling, I see this is a common occurrence. So far I have broken two
> screw extractors and one cobalt drill bit. I have got as much PB Blaster
> (penetrating oil) in there as I could, short of soaking the whole assembly in a
> bucket.
>
> In the past, people have posted that they cut the bolt out.
>
> Is there some kind of small, electric wheel cutter that will fit into this
> somewhat tight space to do this?

a regular grinder, with the edge going right into the bolt and nut? or
is it too close quarters?
>
> What cutting points are recommended? Cut the nut, pry apart, then pull off? Then
> maybe hammer what remains of the bolt through?

yup. theres also a "nut breaker" google for that, but i still dunno what
kind of space you have to work with.
>
> Also, what technique might be appropriate using a torch? I am thinking of buying
> one of those $15 ones at True Value hardware IF someone thinks this with
> something else is the better route to go.

a torch is always handy too! supposedly, you want a MAPP torch, since
propane doesnt get hot enough?
>
> I do have a used (7k miles old) strut (=spring over shock absorber) and control
> arm to replace the old ones, so I can destroy them to my heart's delight, as
> long as the car is drivable again within a few hours.

in that case, an angle grinder will cut through anything. hell- try it
all! ive never had to buy a nut breaker, usually the angle grinder does
it all.
>
> Suggestions welcome.
>
>

Re: Bolt Removal Problems
 

pick up a dremel, it'll get in some of the smallest corners and 35000 rpms
gets to cutting pretty quick =)




"Caroline" <caroline10027remove@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:2VK2d.4989$mb6.2581@newsread3.news.atl.earthl ink.net...
> The head on the lower mounting bolt of my 91 Civic's rear left shock
absorber
> sheared off. Same for the bolt joining the control arm to the trailing
arm. From
> groups.googling, I see this is a common occurrence. So far I have broken
two
> screw extractors and one cobalt drill bit. I have got as much PB Blaster
> (penetrating oil) in there as I could, short of soaking the whole assembly
in a
> bucket.
>
> In the past, people have posted that they cut the bolt out.
>
> Is there some kind of small, electric wheel cutter that will fit into this
> somewhat tight space to do this?
>
> What cutting points are recommended? Cut the nut, pry apart, then pull
off? Then
> maybe hammer what remains of the bolt through?
>
> Also, what technique might be appropriate using a torch? I am thinking of
buying
> one of those $15 ones at True Value hardware IF someone thinks this with
> something else is the better route to go.
>
> I do have a used (7k miles old) strut (=spring over shock absorber) and
control
> arm to replace the old ones, so I can destroy them to my heart's delight,
as
> long as the car is drivable again within a few hours.
>
> Suggestions welcome.
>
>

Re: Bolt Removal Problems
 

pick up a dremel, it'll get in some of the smallest corners and 35000 rpms
gets to cutting pretty quick =)




"Caroline" <caroline10027remove@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:2VK2d.4989$mb6.2581@newsread3.news.atl.earthl ink.net...
> The head on the lower mounting bolt of my 91 Civic's rear left shock
absorber
> sheared off. Same for the bolt joining the control arm to the trailing
arm. From
> groups.googling, I see this is a common occurrence. So far I have broken
two
> screw extractors and one cobalt drill bit. I have got as much PB Blaster
> (penetrating oil) in there as I could, short of soaking the whole assembly
in a
> bucket.
>
> In the past, people have posted that they cut the bolt out.
>
> Is there some kind of small, electric wheel cutter that will fit into this
> somewhat tight space to do this?
>
> What cutting points are recommended? Cut the nut, pry apart, then pull
off? Then
> maybe hammer what remains of the bolt through?
>
> Also, what technique might be appropriate using a torch? I am thinking of
buying
> one of those $15 ones at True Value hardware IF someone thinks this with
> something else is the better route to go.
>
> I do have a used (7k miles old) strut (=spring over shock absorber) and
control
> arm to replace the old ones, so I can destroy them to my heart's delight,
as
> long as the car is drivable again within a few hours.
>
> Suggestions welcome.
>
>

Re: Bolt Removal Problems
 

Caroline wrote:
>
> The head on the lower mounting bolt of my 91 Civic's rear left shock
> absorber sheared off.

To clarify, do you mean the bolt that goes through bushing #20 in this
diagram http://tinyurl.com/3n3up ?

> Same for the bolt joining the control arm to the trailing arm.

That sounds like bolt #25 at the trailing arm in the above diagram, correct?

Eric

Re: Bolt Removal Problems
 

Caroline wrote:
>
> The head on the lower mounting bolt of my 91 Civic's rear left shock
> absorber sheared off.

To clarify, do you mean the bolt that goes through bushing #20 in this
diagram http://tinyurl.com/3n3up ?

> Same for the bolt joining the control arm to the trailing arm.

That sounds like bolt #25 at the trailing arm in the above diagram, correct?

Eric

Re: Bolt Removal Problems
 

"Eric" <say.no@spam.now> wrote in message news:414BE57A.9186BD7F@spam.now...
> Caroline wrote:
>>
>> The head on the lower mounting bolt of my 91 Civic's rear left shock
>> absorber sheared off.
>
> To clarify, do you mean the bolt that goes through bushing #20 in this
> diagram http://tinyurl.com/3n3up ?
>
>> Same for the bolt joining the control arm to the trailing arm.
>
> That sounds like bolt #25 at the trailing arm in the above diagram,
> correct?

I can't seen any reason they can't just be pounded through, unless the nuts
are captive?

If the parts are being replaced, get the heat it.

Re: Bolt Removal Problems
 

"Eric" <say.no@spam.now> wrote in message news:414BE57A.9186BD7F@spam.now...
> Caroline wrote:
>>
>> The head on the lower mounting bolt of my 91 Civic's rear left shock
>> absorber sheared off.
>
> To clarify, do you mean the bolt that goes through bushing #20 in this
> diagram http://tinyurl.com/3n3up ?
>
>> Same for the bolt joining the control arm to the trailing arm.
>
> That sounds like bolt #25 at the trailing arm in the above diagram,
> correct?

I can't seen any reason they can't just be pounded through, unless the nuts
are captive?

If the parts are being replaced, get the heat it.

Re: Bolt Removal Problems
 

"Eric" <say.no@spam.now> wrote
> Caroline wrote:
> >
> > The head on the lower mounting bolt of my 91 Civic's rear left shock
> > absorber sheared off.
>
> To clarify, do you mean the bolt that goes through bushing #20 in this
> diagram http://tinyurl.com/3n3up ?

Yes. The bolt itself appears in the "rear shock absorber" drawing at
http://tinyurl.com/59d5k (item #20).

> > Same for the bolt joining the control arm to the trailing arm.
>
> That sounds like bolt #25 at the trailing arm in the above diagram, correct?

Correct.

I anticipate the same problem with *both* #25 bolts in this drawing. So far,
only the outboard bolt's head is sheared off.

If I want to replace the spring-over-shock absorber assembly, at least one of
those #25 bolts must come free, and in a way that doesn't damage the lower arm
(= trailing arm) or its bushing or the other #25 bolt's female fitting.

I'm not in any trouble per se (yet). The car is still drivable. This, as is
usually the case lately with my car work, is more about the journey (and maybe
overkill pre-emptive maintenance) than the destination.

Re: Bolt Removal Problems
 

"Eric" <say.no@spam.now> wrote
> Caroline wrote:
> >
> > The head on the lower mounting bolt of my 91 Civic's rear left shock
> > absorber sheared off.
>
> To clarify, do you mean the bolt that goes through bushing #20 in this
> diagram http://tinyurl.com/3n3up ?

Yes. The bolt itself appears in the "rear shock absorber" drawing at
http://tinyurl.com/59d5k (item #20).

> > Same for the bolt joining the control arm to the trailing arm.
>
> That sounds like bolt #25 at the trailing arm in the above diagram, correct?

Correct.

I anticipate the same problem with *both* #25 bolts in this drawing. So far,
only the outboard bolt's head is sheared off.

If I want to replace the spring-over-shock absorber assembly, at least one of
those #25 bolts must come free, and in a way that doesn't damage the lower arm
(= trailing arm) or its bushing or the other #25 bolt's female fitting.

I'm not in any trouble per se (yet). The car is still drivable. This, as is
usually the case lately with my car work, is more about the journey (and maybe
overkill pre-emptive maintenance) than the destination.

Re: Bolt Removal Problems
 

"Steve Bigelow" <stevebigelowXXX@rogers.com> wrote
> "Eric" <say.no@spam.now> wrote
> > Caroline wrote:
> >>
> >> The head on the lower mounting bolt of my 91 Civic's rear left shock
> >> absorber sheared off.
> >
> > To clarify, do you mean the bolt that goes through bushing #20 in this
> > diagram http://tinyurl.com/3n3up ?
> >
> >> Same for the bolt joining the control arm to the trailing arm.
> >
> > That sounds like bolt #25 at the trailing arm in the above diagram,
> > correct?
>
> I can't seen any reason they can't just be pounded through, unless the nuts
> are captive?

Yes, the nuts are captive (= welded in place).

A guy named "Boomer" here posted a few years ago that he just snapped off the
nut welded to the strut's fork bottom and then, as you suggested, pounded the
bolt through. But I've still found that getting the strut off requires also
removing at least one of the #25 bolts. This is necessary so the control arm can
swing down and fully disengage the strut fork.

> If the parts are being replaced, get the heat it.

I'm working on my options now, including one of these dremel tools (thanks MC
Tee) and maybe an angle cutter (thanks Mike). Space is a concern but I'm not
rejecting either of these possibilities. I'm also considering an air hammer on
the end of the bolt, applying torque via hard tapping, if I can squeeze the
hammer in there without risking life and limb.

Re: Bolt Removal Problems
 

"Steve Bigelow" <stevebigelowXXX@rogers.com> wrote
> "Eric" <say.no@spam.now> wrote
> > Caroline wrote:
> >>
> >> The head on the lower mounting bolt of my 91 Civic's rear left shock
> >> absorber sheared off.
> >
> > To clarify, do you mean the bolt that goes through bushing #20 in this
> > diagram http://tinyurl.com/3n3up ?
> >
> >> Same for the bolt joining the control arm to the trailing arm.
> >
> > That sounds like bolt #25 at the trailing arm in the above diagram,
> > correct?
>
> I can't seen any reason they can't just be pounded through, unless the nuts
> are captive?

Yes, the nuts are captive (= welded in place).

A guy named "Boomer" here posted a few years ago that he just snapped off the
nut welded to the strut's fork bottom and then, as you suggested, pounded the
bolt through. But I've still found that getting the strut off requires also
removing at least one of the #25 bolts. This is necessary so the control arm can
swing down and fully disengage the strut fork.

> If the parts are being replaced, get the heat it.

I'm working on my options now, including one of these dremel tools (thanks MC
Tee) and maybe an angle cutter (thanks Mike). Space is a concern but I'm not
rejecting either of these possibilities. I'm also considering an air hammer on
the end of the bolt, applying torque via hard tapping, if I can squeeze the
hammer in there without risking life and limb.

Re: Bolt Removal Problems
 

Caroline wrote:
> "Steve Bigelow" <stevebigelowXXX@rogers.com> wrote
>
>>"Eric" <say.no@spam.now> wrote
>>
>>>Caroline wrote:
>>>
>>>>The head on the lower mounting bolt of my 91 Civic's rear left shock
>>>>absorber sheared off.
>>>
>>>To clarify, do you mean the bolt that goes through bushing #20 in this
>>>diagram http://tinyurl.com/3n3up ?
>>>
>>>
>>>>Same for the bolt joining the control arm to the trailing arm.
>>>
>>>That sounds like bolt #25 at the trailing arm in the above diagram,
>>>correct?
>>
>>I can't seen any reason they can't just be pounded through, unless the nuts
>>are captive?
>
>
> Yes, the nuts are captive (= welded in place).
>
> A guy named "Boomer" here posted a few years ago that he just snapped off the
> nut welded to the strut's fork bottom and then, as you suggested, pounded the
> bolt through. But I've still found that getting the strut off requires also
> removing at least one of the #25 bolts. This is necessary so the control arm can
> swing down and fully disengage the strut fork.

you can get the shock out without dropping that bolt, but dropping sure
makes life easier. the "without" method involves a heavy assistant
forcing the suspension as low as it will go - the torsion in the
bushings usually stops it going too far.

removing the nut on the forward facing part of the shock is not that
hard - it's just friction welded in there. a big wrench & a "torque
amplifier" soon has that thing turning. then you're in the business of
being able to pound the bolt through, if it's not already turning - it
usually just gets frozen inside the nut. for reassembly, just use the
appropriate metric nylock nut from your local hardware store.

if #25 bolt shears, you're going to have to carefully drill out i'm
afraid. modest heat helps, localized on the nut as much as possible,
[maybe by cutting a hole for the nut in some plumbers heat shield?] but
don't overheat because the trailing arm is subject to quite a lot of
flex and it could mess up the steel & start fatigue.

you can also drop the nut from the inboard side of the lower control arm
to get the clearance you need to get the shock out, but don't forget to
jack the trailing arm into position first.

>
>
>>If the parts are being replaced, get the heat it.
>
>
> I'm working on my options now, including one of these dremel tools (thanks MC
> Tee) and maybe an angle cutter (thanks Mike). Space is a concern but I'm not
> rejecting either of these possibilities. I'm also considering an air hammer on
> the end of the bolt, applying torque via hard tapping, if I can squeeze the
> hammer in there without risking life and limb.
>
>

Re: Bolt Removal Problems
 

Caroline wrote:
> "Steve Bigelow" <stevebigelowXXX@rogers.com> wrote
>
>>"Eric" <say.no@spam.now> wrote
>>
>>>Caroline wrote:
>>>
>>>>The head on the lower mounting bolt of my 91 Civic's rear left shock
>>>>absorber sheared off.
>>>
>>>To clarify, do you mean the bolt that goes through bushing #20 in this
>>>diagram http://tinyurl.com/3n3up ?
>>>
>>>
>>>>Same for the bolt joining the control arm to the trailing arm.
>>>
>>>That sounds like bolt #25 at the trailing arm in the above diagram,
>>>correct?
>>
>>I can't seen any reason they can't just be pounded through, unless the nuts
>>are captive?
>
>
> Yes, the nuts are captive (= welded in place).
>
> A guy named "Boomer" here posted a few years ago that he just snapped off the
> nut welded to the strut's fork bottom and then, as you suggested, pounded the
> bolt through. But I've still found that getting the strut off requires also
> removing at least one of the #25 bolts. This is necessary so the control arm can
> swing down and fully disengage the strut fork.

you can get the shock out without dropping that bolt, but dropping sure
makes life easier. the "without" method involves a heavy assistant
forcing the suspension as low as it will go - the torsion in the
bushings usually stops it going too far.

removing the nut on the forward facing part of the shock is not that
hard - it's just friction welded in there. a big wrench & a "torque
amplifier" soon has that thing turning. then you're in the business of
being able to pound the bolt through, if it's not already turning - it
usually just gets frozen inside the nut. for reassembly, just use the
appropriate metric nylock nut from your local hardware store.

if #25 bolt shears, you're going to have to carefully drill out i'm
afraid. modest heat helps, localized on the nut as much as possible,
[maybe by cutting a hole for the nut in some plumbers heat shield?] but
don't overheat because the trailing arm is subject to quite a lot of
flex and it could mess up the steel & start fatigue.

you can also drop the nut from the inboard side of the lower control arm
to get the clearance you need to get the shock out, but don't forget to
jack the trailing arm into position first.

>
>
>>If the parts are being replaced, get the heat it.
>
>
> I'm working on my options now, including one of these dremel tools (thanks MC
> Tee) and maybe an angle cutter (thanks Mike). Space is a concern but I'm not
> rejecting either of these possibilities. I'm also considering an air hammer on
> the end of the bolt, applying torque via hard tapping, if I can squeeze the
> hammer in there without risking life and limb.
>
>