Civic failing to start
 

Hi all,

I have a 1994 Honda Civic Automatic (150+ K). Lately, it fails to start on
hot sunny days. It happened last year as well but not frequently as this
year. The instrument panel indicates the battery symbol and I am thinking
some electrical problems. Last year I was able to start with jumper but no
luck this year. However, if I let it cool down for a 15-20 minutes it starts
again.

I took the car to the local AutoZone to test the battery but seems like
everything ok.

Any help appreciated....

Matt

Re: Civic failing to start
 

This sounds like the classic, early 1990s Hondas main fuel relay problem. Car
starts just fine the first time on a certain, warm sunny day. Then it's driven
around and stopped for a few minutes. It won't restart immediately. You have to
wait a quarter hour or so, and then it will re-start.

The relay can be re-soldered or replaced. It's tricky to remove but definitely
do-able by a do-it-yourselfer. I bought the part online many years ago when my
1991 Civic LX was doing this and replaced it myself. Others here swear by
re-soldering, and I believe them.

http://www.markl.f9.co.uk/howto/elec...main-relay.htm has more
info. Note especially the little check you can do: "When you turn the ignition
key to position II (ignition on) you should see the PGM-FI indicator on the dash
light up and extinguish. Exactly timed with this lamp, you should hear a click
and the fuel pump turn on and off. If you do not hear a click and the fuel pump,
then the main relay is likely to be at fault."



"MattA" <matta@nospam.com> wrote
> Hi all,
>
> I have a 1994 Honda Civic Automatic (150+ K). Lately, it fails to start on
> hot sunny days. It happened last year as well but not frequently as this
> year. The instrument panel indicates the battery symbol and I am thinking
> some electrical problems. Last year I was able to start with jumper but no
> luck this year. However, if I let it cool down for a 15-20 minutes it starts
> again.
>
> I took the car to the local AutoZone to test the battery but seems like
> everything ok.
>
> Any help appreciated....
>
> Matt

Re: Civic failing to start
 

MattA wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I have a 1994 Honda Civic Automatic (150+ K). Lately, it fails to start on
> hot sunny days. It happened last year as well but not frequently as this
> year. The instrument panel indicates the battery symbol and I am thinking
> some electrical problems. Last year I was able to start with jumper but no
> luck this year. However, if I let it cool down for a 15-20 minutes it starts
> again.
>
> I took the car to the local AutoZone to test the battery but seems like
> everything ok.
>
> Any help appreciated....
>
> Matt
+++++++++++++++++++++

Matt

Your 'main relay' has cold solder joints on it. You can replace it, or
just resolder it. It's up under the dash, behind the instrument cluster.

Temporarily, smacking the dash will cause the relay to cycle, which will
prime the injectors, and once it starts the vibration will sometimes
keep it pumping enough to drive the car.

http://techauto.tripod.com/mainrelay.htm 'Curly'


+++++++++++++++++

Re: Civic failing to start
 

On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 03:46:14 GMT, "MattA" <matta@nospam.com> wrote:

>Hi all,
>
>I have a 1994 Honda Civic Automatic (150+ K). Lately, it fails to start on
>hot sunny days.

http://www3.telus.net/public/johning...html#MainRelay

Re: Civic failing to start
 

motsco_ _ wrote:

> MattA wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I have a 1994 Honda Civic Automatic (150+ K). Lately, it fails to
>> start on
>> hot sunny days. It happened last year as well but not frequently as this
>> year. The instrument panel indicates the battery symbol and I am thinking
>> some electrical problems. Last year I was able to start with jumper
>> but no
>> luck this year. However, if I let it cool down for a 15-20 minutes it
>> starts
>> again.
>>
>> I took the car to the local AutoZone to test the battery but seems like
>> everything ok.
>>
>> Any help appreciated....
>>
>> Matt
>
> +++++++++++++++++++++
>
> Matt
>
> Your 'main relay' has cold solder joints on it. You can replace it, or
> just resolder it. It's up under the dash, behind the instrument cluster.
>

I'd definitely recommend resoldering it. My 94 Accord had the same
problem with the DRL module (high beams not working), and after
resoldering it, it was stronger than new, and it saved me CAD$150.

> Temporarily, smacking the dash will cause the relay to cycle, which will
> prime the injectors, and once it starts the vibration will sometimes
> keep it pumping enough to drive the car.
>

If you do apply that technique you may end up damaging something else.
Get it resoldered. The contact points are HUGE (compared to normal
PCBs), and there's not much chance of frying anything on it if you apply
a bit too much heat. So it's not a difficult DIY job. Even if you can't
do it, pretty much any electronics repair shop would do it for you.
Don't let them charge you more than 30mins of labout, it took me 5
minutes to resolder my DRL module.

Cosmin

Re: Civic failing to start
 

Cosmin N. wrote:
> motsco_ _ wrote:
>
>> MattA wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I have a 1994 Honda Civic Automatic (150+ K). Lately, it fails to
>>> start on
>>> hot sunny days. It happened last year as well but not frequently as this
>>> year. The instrument panel indicates the battery symbol and I am
>>> thinking
>>> some electrical problems. Last year I was able to start with jumper
>>> but no
>>> luck this year. However, if I let it cool down for a 15-20 minutes it
>>> starts
>>> again.
>>>
>>> I took the car to the local AutoZone to test the battery but seems like
>>> everything ok.
>>>
>>> Any help appreciated....
>>>
>>> Matt
>>
>>
>> +++++++++++++++++++++
>>
>> Matt
>>
>> Your 'main relay' has cold solder joints on it. You can replace it, or
>> just resolder it. It's up under the dash, behind the instrument cluster.
>>
>
> I'd definitely recommend resoldering it. My 94 Accord had the same
> problem with the DRL module (high beams not working), and after
> resoldering it, it was stronger than new, and it saved me CAD$150.
>
>> Temporarily, smacking the dash will cause the relay to cycle, which
>> will prime the injectors, and once it starts the vibration will
>> sometimes keep it pumping enough to drive the car.
>>
>
> If you do apply that technique you may end up damaging something else.
> Get it resoldered. The contact points are HUGE (compared to normal
> PCBs), and there's not much chance of frying anything on it if you apply
> a bit too much heat. So it's not a difficult DIY job. Even if you can't
> do it, pretty much any electronics repair shop would do it for you.
> Don't let them charge you more than 30mins of labout, it took me 5
> minutes to resolder my DRL module.
>
> Cosmin
++++++++++++++

Cosmin, bear in mind that as soon as his car got warm under the dash the
relay connections were ALREADY sparking. If you do a search and read the
hundreds of posts about the symptoms of bad RELAY, they all describe how
the person drives ten or twenty minutes to the gas station, or GF's
house, or Quickie Mart, and when they come out two minutes later, the
fuel pump won't run. There's rarely a post that says "it dies on the
side of the road". That's because the relay will cycle the fuel pump as
long as there's enough vibration to keep the weight of the relay coil
'bouncing around'. As soon as they shut the car off, the game's over. If
they get back into the car and don't hear the relay click (and the fuel
pump won't run for a second or two), smacking the dash will cause the
bad solder joint to spark and the owner will hear the fuel pump cycle. I
don't think I'm promoting CAR FIRES or any other stupidity, just
suggesting that there's a very simple way to confirm the bad solder
joint, and to save the cost of a tow truck, or being late for work. I
admit this 'FIX' isn't in the Owner's Manual. :-)

In my many years of work, I've soldered thousands (possibly TENS of
thousands) of solder joints, including Honda DRL relays, and you're
right, it should get fixed right away, but if it's been happening a
whole year ago, the solder joint between the circuit board and the relay
has been 'spitzensparken' for MANY, MANY HOURS, and a smack on the dash
isn't going to innitiate a catastrophic melt-down.

BTW, a 15 watt soldering pencil will provide plenty of heat. It's the
preparation of the connection that's most important. All the old solder
should be removed, some rosin flux applied, and a nice clean blob of
fresh solder should 'wick' onto the surfaces. Too much heat can burn the
copper traces loose from the board.

'Curly'

Re: Civic failing to start
 

> BTW, a 15 watt soldering pencil will provide plenty of heat. It's the
> preparation of the connection that's most important. All the old
> solder should be removed, some rosin flux applied, and a nice clean
> blob of fresh solder should 'wick' onto the surfaces. Too much heat
> can burn the copper traces loose from the board.
>
> 'Curly'
>
>

I used a 60 watt Weller on my relay,the metal relay parts that solder to
the PCB conduct a lot of heat and need a heavier iron for best wetting.
Didn't have any problems with foil lifting,either.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik-at-kua.net