Civic hesitation problem...
 

Buddy of mine just rebuilt (with all OEM parts!) a D16A6 with PGM-FI for
his '89 Civic (including the appropriate computer and wiring harness).
Got it installed, turned the key, engine turned 3 times... and fired
right up. Very nice. Idles smoooooth and quiet...

But when he gives it any gas, even just sitting in neutral, it bogs and
hesitates. Hit the gas too fast, and it just sputters and dies. Do it
carefully, and once it gets 1800rpm or so, it works fine. It also seems
to idle a little bit rich.

Thoughts? Ideas? He's checked for error codes, but it's not giving any.

TIA

Re: Civic hesitation problem...
 

Matt Ion wrote:
> Buddy of mine just rebuilt (with all OEM parts!) a D16A6 with PGM-FI for
> his '89 Civic (including the appropriate computer and wiring harness).
> Got it installed, turned the key, engine turned 3 times... and fired
> right up. Very nice. Idles smoooooth and quiet...
>
> But when he gives it any gas, even just sitting in neutral, it bogs and
> hesitates. Hit the gas too fast, and it just sputters and dies. Do it
> carefully, and once it gets 1800rpm or so, it works fine. It also seems
> to idle a little bit rich.
>
> Thoughts? Ideas? He's checked for error codes, but it's not giving any.
>
> TIA

BTW, it looks real nice, he's done a lot of work cleaning up the body,
detailing the interior, and cleaned and repainted all the engine parts.
http://www2.moltenimage.com/civic/

Re: Civic hesitation problem...
 

Matt Ion wrote:
> Buddy of mine just rebuilt (with all OEM parts!) a D16A6 with PGM-FI for
> his '89 Civic (including the appropriate computer and wiring harness).
> Got it installed, turned the key, engine turned 3 times... and fired
> right up. Very nice. Idles smoooooth and quiet...
>
> But when he gives it any gas, even just sitting in neutral, it bogs and
> hesitates. Hit the gas too fast, and it just sputters and dies. Do it
> carefully, and once it gets 1800rpm or so, it works fine. It also seems
> to idle a little bit rich.
>
> Thoughts? Ideas? He's checked for error codes, but it's not giving any.
>
> TIA

BTW, it looks real nice, he's done a lot of work cleaning up the body,
detailing the interior, and cleaned and repainted all the engine parts.
http://www2.moltenimage.com/civic/

Re: Civic hesitation problem...
 

Matt Ion <soundy106@gmail.com> wrote in
news:NE21i.173204$DE1.115546@pd7urf2no:

> Buddy of mine just rebuilt (with all OEM parts!) a D16A6 with PGM-FI for
> his '89 Civic (including the appropriate computer and wiring harness).
> Got it installed, turned the key, engine turned 3 times... and fired
> right up. Very nice. Idles smoooooth and quiet...
>
> But when he gives it any gas, even just sitting in neutral, it bogs and
> hesitates. Hit the gas too fast, and it just sputters and dies. Do it
> carefully, and once it gets 1800rpm or so, it works fine. It also seems
> to idle a little bit rich.
>
> Thoughts? Ideas? He's checked for error codes, but it's not giving any.
>
> TIA

Does he have enough fuel pressure to run the fuel injection?
That takes more pressure than a carbureted engine,and the fuel pump may be
different for a carbureted model.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

Re: Civic hesitation problem...
 

Matt Ion <soundy106@gmail.com> wrote in
news:NE21i.173204$DE1.115546@pd7urf2no:

> Buddy of mine just rebuilt (with all OEM parts!) a D16A6 with PGM-FI for
> his '89 Civic (including the appropriate computer and wiring harness).
> Got it installed, turned the key, engine turned 3 times... and fired
> right up. Very nice. Idles smoooooth and quiet...
>
> But when he gives it any gas, even just sitting in neutral, it bogs and
> hesitates. Hit the gas too fast, and it just sputters and dies. Do it
> carefully, and once it gets 1800rpm or so, it works fine. It also seems
> to idle a little bit rich.
>
> Thoughts? Ideas? He's checked for error codes, but it's not giving any.
>
> TIA

Does he have enough fuel pressure to run the fuel injection?
That takes more pressure than a carbureted engine,and the fuel pump may be
different for a carbureted model.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

Re: Civic hesitation problem...
 

Jim Yanik wrote:
> Matt Ion <soundy106@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:NE21i.173204$DE1.115546@pd7urf2no:
>
>> Buddy of mine just rebuilt (with all OEM parts!) a D16A6 with PGM-FI for
>> his '89 Civic (including the appropriate computer and wiring harness).
>> Got it installed, turned the key, engine turned 3 times... and fired
>> right up. Very nice. Idles smoooooth and quiet...
>>
>> But when he gives it any gas, even just sitting in neutral, it bogs and
>> hesitates. Hit the gas too fast, and it just sputters and dies. Do it
>> carefully, and once it gets 1800rpm or so, it works fine. It also seems
>> to idle a little bit rich.
>>
>> Thoughts? Ideas? He's checked for error codes, but it's not giving any.
>>
>> TIA
>
> Does he have enough fuel pressure to run the fuel injection?
> That takes more pressure than a carbureted engine,and the fuel pump may be
> different for a carbureted model.

The old engine was a D15, if memory serves, but it definitely had
PGM-FI. It runs great past 2000rpm and on up to redline, it's just that
initial low-RPM push that's dropping out.

Re: Civic hesitation problem...
 

Jim Yanik wrote:
> Matt Ion <soundy106@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:NE21i.173204$DE1.115546@pd7urf2no:
>
>> Buddy of mine just rebuilt (with all OEM parts!) a D16A6 with PGM-FI for
>> his '89 Civic (including the appropriate computer and wiring harness).
>> Got it installed, turned the key, engine turned 3 times... and fired
>> right up. Very nice. Idles smoooooth and quiet...
>>
>> But when he gives it any gas, even just sitting in neutral, it bogs and
>> hesitates. Hit the gas too fast, and it just sputters and dies. Do it
>> carefully, and once it gets 1800rpm or so, it works fine. It also seems
>> to idle a little bit rich.
>>
>> Thoughts? Ideas? He's checked for error codes, but it's not giving any.
>>
>> TIA
>
> Does he have enough fuel pressure to run the fuel injection?
> That takes more pressure than a carbureted engine,and the fuel pump may be
> different for a carbureted model.

The old engine was a D15, if memory serves, but it definitely had
PGM-FI. It runs great past 2000rpm and on up to redline, it's just that
initial low-RPM push that's dropping out.

Re: Civic hesitation problem...
 

Matt Ion <soundy106@gmail.com> wrote in
news:_Y51i.176043$6m4.108395@pd7urf1no:

> Jim Yanik wrote:
>> Matt Ion <soundy106@gmail.com> wrote in
>> news:NE21i.173204$DE1.115546@pd7urf2no:
>>
>>> Buddy of mine just rebuilt (with all OEM parts!) a D16A6 with PGM-FI
>>> for his '89 Civic (including the appropriate computer and wiring
>>> harness). Got it installed, turned the key, engine turned 3 times...
>>> and fired right up. Very nice. Idles smoooooth and quiet...
>>>
>>> But when he gives it any gas, even just sitting in neutral, it bogs
>>> and hesitates. Hit the gas too fast, and it just sputters and dies.
>>> Do it carefully, and once it gets 1800rpm or so, it works fine. It
>>> also seems to idle a little bit rich.
>>>
>>> Thoughts? Ideas? He's checked for error codes, but it's not giving
>>> any.
>>>
>>> TIA
>>
>> Does he have enough fuel pressure to run the fuel injection?
>> That takes more pressure than a carbureted engine,and the fuel pump
>> may be different for a carbureted model.
>
> The old engine was a D15, if memory serves, but it definitely had
> PGM-FI. It runs great past 2000rpm and on up to redline, it's just
> that initial low-RPM push that's dropping out.

maybe a bad throttle position sensor?
Maybe it's defective at the low end,perhaps a dirty/worn resistive element.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

Re: Civic hesitation problem...
 

Matt Ion <soundy106@gmail.com> wrote in
news:_Y51i.176043$6m4.108395@pd7urf1no:

> Jim Yanik wrote:
>> Matt Ion <soundy106@gmail.com> wrote in
>> news:NE21i.173204$DE1.115546@pd7urf2no:
>>
>>> Buddy of mine just rebuilt (with all OEM parts!) a D16A6 with PGM-FI
>>> for his '89 Civic (including the appropriate computer and wiring
>>> harness). Got it installed, turned the key, engine turned 3 times...
>>> and fired right up. Very nice. Idles smoooooth and quiet...
>>>
>>> But when he gives it any gas, even just sitting in neutral, it bogs
>>> and hesitates. Hit the gas too fast, and it just sputters and dies.
>>> Do it carefully, and once it gets 1800rpm or so, it works fine. It
>>> also seems to idle a little bit rich.
>>>
>>> Thoughts? Ideas? He's checked for error codes, but it's not giving
>>> any.
>>>
>>> TIA
>>
>> Does he have enough fuel pressure to run the fuel injection?
>> That takes more pressure than a carbureted engine,and the fuel pump
>> may be different for a carbureted model.
>
> The old engine was a D15, if memory serves, but it definitely had
> PGM-FI. It runs great past 2000rpm and on up to redline, it's just
> that initial low-RPM push that's dropping out.

maybe a bad throttle position sensor?
Maybe it's defective at the low end,perhaps a dirty/worn resistive element.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

Re: Civic hesitation problem...
 

it sounds like you converted from DPFI to MPFI, in which case a bit
of wiring was involved

simple run down to check your wiring against

ECU pin component
a1 inj 1
a3 inj 2
a5 inj 3
a7 inj 4
a15 inj resistor box


run all red/blk wires from injectors back to resistor box
swap pins from c1 and c2 to b10 and b12 respectively
run new wire from c1 and c2 into engine bay
swap out old DPFI distributor plug to MPFI plug (matching colors)
wire from c1 goes to blue/grn wire on new distributor plug
wire from c2 goes to yell/grn wire on new distributor plug
extend TPS plug 6" and swap outer 2 wires




sounds like you forgot to switch the TPS wires

Re: Civic hesitation problem...
 

it sounds like you converted from DPFI to MPFI, in which case a bit
of wiring was involved

simple run down to check your wiring against

ECU pin component
a1 inj 1
a3 inj 2
a5 inj 3
a7 inj 4
a15 inj resistor box


run all red/blk wires from injectors back to resistor box
swap pins from c1 and c2 to b10 and b12 respectively
run new wire from c1 and c2 into engine bay
swap out old DPFI distributor plug to MPFI plug (matching colors)
wire from c1 goes to blue/grn wire on new distributor plug
wire from c2 goes to yell/grn wire on new distributor plug
extend TPS plug 6" and swap outer 2 wires




sounds like you forgot to switch the TPS wires

Re: Civic hesitation problem...
 

Jim Yanik wrote:
> Matt Ion <soundy106@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:_Y51i.176043$6m4.108395@pd7urf1no:
>
>> Jim Yanik wrote:
>>> Matt Ion <soundy106@gmail.com> wrote in
>>> news:NE21i.173204$DE1.115546@pd7urf2no:
>>>
>>>> Buddy of mine just rebuilt (with all OEM parts!) a D16A6 with PGM-FI
>>>> for his '89 Civic (including the appropriate computer and wiring
>>>> harness). Got it installed, turned the key, engine turned 3 times...
>>>> and fired right up. Very nice. Idles smoooooth and quiet...
>>>>
>>>> But when he gives it any gas, even just sitting in neutral, it bogs
>>>> and hesitates. Hit the gas too fast, and it just sputters and dies.
>>>> Do it carefully, and once it gets 1800rpm or so, it works fine. It
>>>> also seems to idle a little bit rich.
>>>>
>>>> Thoughts? Ideas? He's checked for error codes, but it's not giving
>>>> any.
>>>>
>>>> TIA
>>> Does he have enough fuel pressure to run the fuel injection?
>>> That takes more pressure than a carbureted engine,and the fuel pump
>>> may be different for a carbureted model.
>> The old engine was a D15, if memory serves, but it definitely had
>> PGM-FI. It runs great past 2000rpm and on up to redline, it's just
>> that initial low-RPM push that's dropping out.
>
> maybe a bad throttle position sensor?
> Maybe it's defective at the low end,perhaps a dirty/worn resistive element.

I thought of that... we haven't had a chance to check it yet, but I'll
pass that on the suggestion. But wouldn't the computer be throwing
error codes in that case?

Fortunately he still has the old engine, complete with intake, so
there's at least a known working one there :)

Re: Civic hesitation problem...
 

Jim Yanik wrote:
> Matt Ion <soundy106@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:_Y51i.176043$6m4.108395@pd7urf1no:
>
>> Jim Yanik wrote:
>>> Matt Ion <soundy106@gmail.com> wrote in
>>> news:NE21i.173204$DE1.115546@pd7urf2no:
>>>
>>>> Buddy of mine just rebuilt (with all OEM parts!) a D16A6 with PGM-FI
>>>> for his '89 Civic (including the appropriate computer and wiring
>>>> harness). Got it installed, turned the key, engine turned 3 times...
>>>> and fired right up. Very nice. Idles smoooooth and quiet...
>>>>
>>>> But when he gives it any gas, even just sitting in neutral, it bogs
>>>> and hesitates. Hit the gas too fast, and it just sputters and dies.
>>>> Do it carefully, and once it gets 1800rpm or so, it works fine. It
>>>> also seems to idle a little bit rich.
>>>>
>>>> Thoughts? Ideas? He's checked for error codes, but it's not giving
>>>> any.
>>>>
>>>> TIA
>>> Does he have enough fuel pressure to run the fuel injection?
>>> That takes more pressure than a carbureted engine,and the fuel pump
>>> may be different for a carbureted model.
>> The old engine was a D15, if memory serves, but it definitely had
>> PGM-FI. It runs great past 2000rpm and on up to redline, it's just
>> that initial low-RPM push that's dropping out.
>
> maybe a bad throttle position sensor?
> Maybe it's defective at the low end,perhaps a dirty/worn resistive element.

I thought of that... we haven't had a chance to check it yet, but I'll
pass that on the suggestion. But wouldn't the computer be throwing
error codes in that case?

Fortunately he still has the old engine, complete with intake, so
there's at least a known working one there :)

Re: Civic hesitation problem...
 

JHLorusso@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
>
> it sounds like you converted from DPFI to MPFI, in which case a bit
> of wiring was involved
>
> simple run down to check your wiring against
>
> ECU pin component
> a1 inj 1
> a3 inj 2
> a5 inj 3
> a7 inj 4
> a15 inj resistor box
>
>
> run all red/blk wires from injectors back to resistor box
> swap pins from c1 and c2 to b10 and b12 respectively
> run new wire from c1 and c2 into engine bay
> swap out old DPFI distributor plug to MPFI plug (matching colors)
> wire from c1 goes to blue/grn wire on new distributor plug
> wire from c2 goes to yell/grn wire on new distributor plug
> extend TPS plug 6" and swap outer 2 wires
>
>
>
>
> sounds like you forgot to switch the TPS wires

Both engines (the one that came out of the car, and the new one) have
the same intake systems, the "PGM-FI PROGRAMMED FUEL INJECTION" throttle
bodies and multipoint injectors. I'll tell him to double-check the
wiring, but I don't think that'll be it.

Re: Civic hesitation problem...
 

JHLorusso@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
>
> it sounds like you converted from DPFI to MPFI, in which case a bit
> of wiring was involved
>
> simple run down to check your wiring against
>
> ECU pin component
> a1 inj 1
> a3 inj 2
> a5 inj 3
> a7 inj 4
> a15 inj resistor box
>
>
> run all red/blk wires from injectors back to resistor box
> swap pins from c1 and c2 to b10 and b12 respectively
> run new wire from c1 and c2 into engine bay
> swap out old DPFI distributor plug to MPFI plug (matching colors)
> wire from c1 goes to blue/grn wire on new distributor plug
> wire from c2 goes to yell/grn wire on new distributor plug
> extend TPS plug 6" and swap outer 2 wires
>
>
>
>
> sounds like you forgot to switch the TPS wires

Both engines (the one that came out of the car, and the new one) have
the same intake systems, the "PGM-FI PROGRAMMED FUEL INJECTION" throttle
bodies and multipoint injectors. I'll tell him to double-check the
wiring, but I don't think that'll be it.

Re: Civic hesitation problem...
 

JHLorusso@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
>
> it sounds like you converted from DPFI to MPFI, in which case a bit
> of wiring was involved
>
> simple run down to check your wiring against
>
> ECU pin component
> a1 inj 1
> a3 inj 2
> a5 inj 3
> a7 inj 4
> a15 inj resistor box
>
>
> run all red/blk wires from injectors back to resistor box
> swap pins from c1 and c2 to b10 and b12 respectively
> run new wire from c1 and c2 into engine bay
> swap out old DPFI distributor plug to MPFI plug (matching colors)
> wire from c1 goes to blue/grn wire on new distributor plug
> wire from c2 goes to yell/grn wire on new distributor plug
> extend TPS plug 6" and swap outer 2 wires
>
>
>
>
> sounds like you forgot to switch the TPS wires

good thinking.

if not, check the cam timing.

Re: Civic hesitation problem...
 

JHLorusso@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
>
> it sounds like you converted from DPFI to MPFI, in which case a bit
> of wiring was involved
>
> simple run down to check your wiring against
>
> ECU pin component
> a1 inj 1
> a3 inj 2
> a5 inj 3
> a7 inj 4
> a15 inj resistor box
>
>
> run all red/blk wires from injectors back to resistor box
> swap pins from c1 and c2 to b10 and b12 respectively
> run new wire from c1 and c2 into engine bay
> swap out old DPFI distributor plug to MPFI plug (matching colors)
> wire from c1 goes to blue/grn wire on new distributor plug
> wire from c2 goes to yell/grn wire on new distributor plug
> extend TPS plug 6" and swap outer 2 wires
>
>
>
>
> sounds like you forgot to switch the TPS wires

good thinking.

if not, check the cam timing.

Re: Civic hesitation problem...
 

Matt Ion wrote:
> JHLorusso@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> it sounds like you converted from DPFI to MPFI, in which case a bit
>> of wiring was involved
>>
>> simple run down to check your wiring against
>>
>> ECU pin component
>> a1 inj 1
>> a3 inj 2
>> a5 inj 3
>> a7 inj 4
>> a15 inj resistor box
>>
>>
>> run all red/blk wires from injectors back to resistor box
>> swap pins from c1 and c2 to b10 and b12 respectively
>> run new wire from c1 and c2 into engine bay
>> swap out old DPFI distributor plug to MPFI plug (matching colors)
>> wire from c1 goes to blue/grn wire on new distributor plug
>> wire from c2 goes to yell/grn wire on new distributor plug
>> extend TPS plug 6" and swap outer 2 wires
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> sounds like you forgot to switch the TPS wires
>
> Both engines (the one that came out of the car, and the new one) have
> the same intake systems, the "PGM-FI PROGRAMMED FUEL INJECTION" throttle
> bodies and multipoint injectors. I'll tell him to double-check the
> wiring, but I don't think that'll be it.

it's likely that it is - the tps sensor rotation is opposite on the 2pfi
to the 4pfi. the plug and sensors are the same but the wires are
reversed as a result.

Re: Civic hesitation problem...
 

Matt Ion wrote:
> JHLorusso@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> it sounds like you converted from DPFI to MPFI, in which case a bit
>> of wiring was involved
>>
>> simple run down to check your wiring against
>>
>> ECU pin component
>> a1 inj 1
>> a3 inj 2
>> a5 inj 3
>> a7 inj 4
>> a15 inj resistor box
>>
>>
>> run all red/blk wires from injectors back to resistor box
>> swap pins from c1 and c2 to b10 and b12 respectively
>> run new wire from c1 and c2 into engine bay
>> swap out old DPFI distributor plug to MPFI plug (matching colors)
>> wire from c1 goes to blue/grn wire on new distributor plug
>> wire from c2 goes to yell/grn wire on new distributor plug
>> extend TPS plug 6" and swap outer 2 wires
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> sounds like you forgot to switch the TPS wires
>
> Both engines (the one that came out of the car, and the new one) have
> the same intake systems, the "PGM-FI PROGRAMMED FUEL INJECTION" throttle
> bodies and multipoint injectors. I'll tell him to double-check the
> wiring, but I don't think that'll be it.

it's likely that it is - the tps sensor rotation is opposite on the 2pfi
to the 4pfi. the plug and sensors are the same but the wires are
reversed as a result.

Re: Civic hesitation problem...
 

Matt Ion wrote:
> Jim Yanik wrote:
>> Matt Ion <soundy106@gmail.com> wrote in
>> news:_Y51i.176043$6m4.108395@pd7urf1no:
>>> Jim Yanik wrote:
>>>> Matt Ion <soundy106@gmail.com> wrote in
>>>> news:NE21i.173204$DE1.115546@pd7urf2no:
>>>>
>>>>> Buddy of mine just rebuilt (with all OEM parts!) a D16A6 with PGM-FI
>>>>> for his '89 Civic (including the appropriate computer and wiring
>>>>> harness). Got it installed, turned the key, engine turned 3 times...
>>>>> and fired right up. Very nice. Idles smoooooth and quiet...
>>>>>
>>>>> But when he gives it any gas, even just sitting in neutral, it bogs
>>>>> and hesitates. Hit the gas too fast, and it just sputters and dies.
>>>>> Do it carefully, and once it gets 1800rpm or so, it works fine. It
>>>>> also seems to idle a little bit rich.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thoughts? Ideas? He's checked for error codes, but it's not giving
>>>>> any.
>>>>> TIA
>>>> Does he have enough fuel pressure to run the fuel injection?
>>>> That takes more pressure than a carbureted engine,and the fuel pump
>>>> may be different for a carbureted model.
>>> The old engine was a D15, if memory serves, but it definitely had
>>> PGM-FI. It runs great past 2000rpm and on up to redline, it's just
>>> that initial low-RPM push that's dropping out.
>>
>> maybe a bad throttle position sensor? Maybe it's defective at the low
>> end,perhaps a dirty/worn resistive element.
>
> I thought of that... we haven't had a chance to check it yet, but I'll
> pass that on the suggestion. But wouldn't the computer be throwing
> error codes in that case?

it may only throw codes if there's a bad connection - like if the
slider's worn on the carbon track inside the sensor. reverse wiring
won't be a bad connection.

>
> Fortunately he still has the old engine, complete with intake, so
> there's at least a known working one there :)

Re: Civic hesitation problem...
 

Matt Ion wrote:
> Jim Yanik wrote:
>> Matt Ion <soundy106@gmail.com> wrote in
>> news:_Y51i.176043$6m4.108395@pd7urf1no:
>>> Jim Yanik wrote:
>>>> Matt Ion <soundy106@gmail.com> wrote in
>>>> news:NE21i.173204$DE1.115546@pd7urf2no:
>>>>
>>>>> Buddy of mine just rebuilt (with all OEM parts!) a D16A6 with PGM-FI
>>>>> for his '89 Civic (including the appropriate computer and wiring
>>>>> harness). Got it installed, turned the key, engine turned 3 times...
>>>>> and fired right up. Very nice. Idles smoooooth and quiet...
>>>>>
>>>>> But when he gives it any gas, even just sitting in neutral, it bogs
>>>>> and hesitates. Hit the gas too fast, and it just sputters and dies.
>>>>> Do it carefully, and once it gets 1800rpm or so, it works fine. It
>>>>> also seems to idle a little bit rich.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thoughts? Ideas? He's checked for error codes, but it's not giving
>>>>> any.
>>>>> TIA
>>>> Does he have enough fuel pressure to run the fuel injection?
>>>> That takes more pressure than a carbureted engine,and the fuel pump
>>>> may be different for a carbureted model.
>>> The old engine was a D15, if memory serves, but it definitely had
>>> PGM-FI. It runs great past 2000rpm and on up to redline, it's just
>>> that initial low-RPM push that's dropping out.
>>
>> maybe a bad throttle position sensor? Maybe it's defective at the low
>> end,perhaps a dirty/worn resistive element.
>
> I thought of that... we haven't had a chance to check it yet, but I'll
> pass that on the suggestion. But wouldn't the computer be throwing
> error codes in that case?

it may only throw codes if there's a bad connection - like if the
slider's worn on the carbon track inside the sensor. reverse wiring
won't be a bad connection.

>
> Fortunately he still has the old engine, complete with intake, so
> there's at least a known working one there :)

Re: Civic hesitation problem...
 

"Matt Ion" <soundy106@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:NE21i.173204$DE1.115546@pd7urf2no...
> Buddy of mine just rebuilt (with all OEM parts!) a D16A6 with PGM-FI for
> his '89 Civic (including the appropriate computer and wiring harness). Got
> it installed, turned the key, engine turned 3 times... and fired right up.
> Very nice. Idles smoooooth and quiet...
>
> But when he gives it any gas, even just sitting in neutral, it bogs and
> hesitates. Hit the gas too fast, and it just sputters and dies. Do it
> carefully, and once it gets 1800rpm or so, it works fine. It also seems
> to idle a little bit rich.
>
> Thoughts? Ideas? He's checked for error codes, but it's not giving any.
>
> TIA
Just a thought...Some of these systems take a bit of time for the various
processors to synch and get a baseline established. I don't know about the
Honda Civic but I do know that the Chrysler takes a day or so to get
completely normal.

DaveD

Re: Civic hesitation problem...
 

"Matt Ion" <soundy106@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:NE21i.173204$DE1.115546@pd7urf2no...
> Buddy of mine just rebuilt (with all OEM parts!) a D16A6 with PGM-FI for
> his '89 Civic (including the appropriate computer and wiring harness). Got
> it installed, turned the key, engine turned 3 times... and fired right up.
> Very nice. Idles smoooooth and quiet...
>
> But when he gives it any gas, even just sitting in neutral, it bogs and
> hesitates. Hit the gas too fast, and it just sputters and dies. Do it
> carefully, and once it gets 1800rpm or so, it works fine. It also seems
> to idle a little bit rich.
>
> Thoughts? Ideas? He's checked for error codes, but it's not giving any.
>
> TIA
Just a thought...Some of these systems take a bit of time for the various
processors to synch and get a baseline established. I don't know about the
Honda Civic but I do know that the Chrysler takes a day or so to get
completely normal.

DaveD

Re: Civic hesitation problem...
 

jim beam wrote:
> Matt Ion wrote:
>> JHLorusso@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> it sounds like you converted from DPFI to MPFI, in which case a bit
>>> of wiring was involved
>>>
>>> simple run down to check your wiring against
>>>
>>> ECU pin component
>>> a1 inj 1
>>> a3 inj 2
>>> a5 inj 3
>>> a7 inj 4
>>> a15 inj resistor box
>>>
>>>
>>> run all red/blk wires from injectors back to resistor box
>>> swap pins from c1 and c2 to b10 and b12 respectively
>>> run new wire from c1 and c2 into engine bay
>>> swap out old DPFI distributor plug to MPFI plug (matching colors)
>>> wire from c1 goes to blue/grn wire on new distributor plug
>>> wire from c2 goes to yell/grn wire on new distributor plug
>>> extend TPS plug 6" and swap outer 2 wires
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> sounds like you forgot to switch the TPS wires
>>
>> Both engines (the one that came out of the car, and the new one) have
>> the same intake systems, the "PGM-FI PROGRAMMED FUEL INJECTION"
>> throttle bodies and multipoint injectors. I'll tell him to
>> double-check the wiring, but I don't think that'll be it.
>
> it's likely that it is - the tps sensor rotation is opposite on the 2pfi
> to the 4pfi. the plug and sensors are the same but the wires are
> reversed as a result.

Except that both the previous engine and the new engine are both MPFI
with identical throttle bodies...

Re: Civic hesitation problem...
 

jim beam wrote:
> Matt Ion wrote:
>> JHLorusso@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> it sounds like you converted from DPFI to MPFI, in which case a bit
>>> of wiring was involved
>>>
>>> simple run down to check your wiring against
>>>
>>> ECU pin component
>>> a1 inj 1
>>> a3 inj 2
>>> a5 inj 3
>>> a7 inj 4
>>> a15 inj resistor box
>>>
>>>
>>> run all red/blk wires from injectors back to resistor box
>>> swap pins from c1 and c2 to b10 and b12 respectively
>>> run new wire from c1 and c2 into engine bay
>>> swap out old DPFI distributor plug to MPFI plug (matching colors)
>>> wire from c1 goes to blue/grn wire on new distributor plug
>>> wire from c2 goes to yell/grn wire on new distributor plug
>>> extend TPS plug 6" and swap outer 2 wires
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> sounds like you forgot to switch the TPS wires
>>
>> Both engines (the one that came out of the car, and the new one) have
>> the same intake systems, the "PGM-FI PROGRAMMED FUEL INJECTION"
>> throttle bodies and multipoint injectors. I'll tell him to
>> double-check the wiring, but I don't think that'll be it.
>
> it's likely that it is - the tps sensor rotation is opposite on the 2pfi
> to the 4pfi. the plug and sensors are the same but the wires are
> reversed as a result.

Except that both the previous engine and the new engine are both MPFI
with identical throttle bodies...

Re: Civic hesitation problem...
 

Dave and Trudy wrote:
> "Matt Ion" <soundy106@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:NE21i.173204$DE1.115546@pd7urf2no...
>> Buddy of mine just rebuilt (with all OEM parts!) a D16A6 with PGM-FI for
>> his '89 Civic (including the appropriate computer and wiring harness). Got
>> it installed, turned the key, engine turned 3 times... and fired right up.
>> Very nice. Idles smoooooth and quiet...
>>
>> But when he gives it any gas, even just sitting in neutral, it bogs and
>> hesitates. Hit the gas too fast, and it just sputters and dies. Do it
>> carefully, and once it gets 1800rpm or so, it works fine. It also seems
>> to idle a little bit rich.
>>
>> Thoughts? Ideas? He's checked for error codes, but it's not giving any.
>>
>> TIA
> Just a thought...Some of these systems take a bit of time for the various
> processors to synch and get a baseline established. I don't know about the
> Honda Civic but I do know that the Chrysler takes a day or so to get
> completely normal.

Yeah, don't think that's an issue in an '89 with OBD-0.

Re: Civic hesitation problem...
 

Dave and Trudy wrote:
> "Matt Ion" <soundy106@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:NE21i.173204$DE1.115546@pd7urf2no...
>> Buddy of mine just rebuilt (with all OEM parts!) a D16A6 with PGM-FI for
>> his '89 Civic (including the appropriate computer and wiring harness). Got
>> it installed, turned the key, engine turned 3 times... and fired right up.
>> Very nice. Idles smoooooth and quiet...
>>
>> But when he gives it any gas, even just sitting in neutral, it bogs and
>> hesitates. Hit the gas too fast, and it just sputters and dies. Do it
>> carefully, and once it gets 1800rpm or so, it works fine. It also seems
>> to idle a little bit rich.
>>
>> Thoughts? Ideas? He's checked for error codes, but it's not giving any.
>>
>> TIA
> Just a thought...Some of these systems take a bit of time for the various
> processors to synch and get a baseline established. I don't know about the
> Honda Civic but I do know that the Chrysler takes a day or so to get
> completely normal.

Yeah, don't think that's an issue in an '89 with OBD-0.

Re: Civic hesitation problem...
 

"Matt Ion" <soundy106@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:NE21i.173204$DE1.115546@pd7urf2no...
> Buddy of mine just rebuilt (with all OEM parts!) a D16A6 with PGM-FI for
> his '89 Civic (including the appropriate computer and wiring harness). Got
> it installed, turned the key, engine turned 3 times... and fired right up.
> Very nice. Idles smoooooth and quiet...
>
> But when he gives it any gas, even just sitting in neutral, it bogs and
> hesitates. Hit the gas too fast, and it just sputters and dies. Do it
> carefully, and once it gets 1800rpm or so, it works fine. It also seems
> to idle a little bit rich.
>
> Thoughts? Ideas? He's checked for error codes, but it's not giving any.
>
> TIA
>
It would really help to separate mixture trouble from ignition trouble. How
about a timing light to see what the timing does when the throttle is opened
a bit? The timing should advance a few degrees, but not jump fifteen degrees
or retard a lot. (It may retard some based on the rise in MAP.) Similarly he
can try adding a squirt of starting fluid into the air cleaner a second
before he opens the throttle to see if that improves the response - which
would point to a lean mixture on throttle opening.

Mike

Re: Civic hesitation problem...
 

"Matt Ion" <soundy106@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:NE21i.173204$DE1.115546@pd7urf2no...
> Buddy of mine just rebuilt (with all OEM parts!) a D16A6 with PGM-FI for
> his '89 Civic (including the appropriate computer and wiring harness). Got
> it installed, turned the key, engine turned 3 times... and fired right up.
> Very nice. Idles smoooooth and quiet...
>
> But when he gives it any gas, even just sitting in neutral, it bogs and
> hesitates. Hit the gas too fast, and it just sputters and dies. Do it
> carefully, and once it gets 1800rpm or so, it works fine. It also seems
> to idle a little bit rich.
>
> Thoughts? Ideas? He's checked for error codes, but it's not giving any.
>
> TIA
>
It would really help to separate mixture trouble from ignition trouble. How
about a timing light to see what the timing does when the throttle is opened
a bit? The timing should advance a few degrees, but not jump fifteen degrees
or retard a lot. (It may retard some based on the rise in MAP.) Similarly he
can try adding a squirt of starting fluid into the air cleaner a second
before he opens the throttle to see if that improves the response - which
would point to a lean mixture on throttle opening.

Mike

Re: Civic hesitation problem...
 

Matt Ion wrote:
> jim beam wrote:
>> Matt Ion wrote:
>>> JHLorusso@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> it sounds like you converted from DPFI to MPFI, in which case a bit
>>>> of wiring was involved
>>>>
>>>> simple run down to check your wiring against
>>>>
>>>> ECU pin component
>>>> a1 inj 1
>>>> a3 inj 2
>>>> a5 inj 3
>>>> a7 inj 4
>>>> a15 inj resistor box
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> run all red/blk wires from injectors back to resistor box
>>>> swap pins from c1 and c2 to b10 and b12 respectively
>>>> run new wire from c1 and c2 into engine bay
>>>> swap out old DPFI distributor plug to MPFI plug (matching colors)
>>>> wire from c1 goes to blue/grn wire on new distributor plug
>>>> wire from c2 goes to yell/grn wire on new distributor plug
>>>> extend TPS plug 6" and swap outer 2 wires
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> sounds like you forgot to switch the TPS wires
>>>
>>> Both engines (the one that came out of the car, and the new one) have
>>> the same intake systems, the "PGM-FI PROGRAMMED FUEL INJECTION"
>>> throttle bodies and multipoint injectors. I'll tell him to
>>> double-check the wiring, but I don't think that'll be it.
>>
>> it's likely that it is - the tps sensor rotation is opposite on the
>> 2pfi to the 4pfi. the plug and sensors are the same but the wires are
>> reversed as a result.
>
> Except that both the previous engine and the new engine are both MPFI
> with identical throttle bodies...
>
then check the cam timing.

Re: Civic hesitation problem...
 

Matt Ion wrote:
> jim beam wrote:
>> Matt Ion wrote:
>>> JHLorusso@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> it sounds like you converted from DPFI to MPFI, in which case a bit
>>>> of wiring was involved
>>>>
>>>> simple run down to check your wiring against
>>>>
>>>> ECU pin component
>>>> a1 inj 1
>>>> a3 inj 2
>>>> a5 inj 3
>>>> a7 inj 4
>>>> a15 inj resistor box
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> run all red/blk wires from injectors back to resistor box
>>>> swap pins from c1 and c2 to b10 and b12 respectively
>>>> run new wire from c1 and c2 into engine bay
>>>> swap out old DPFI distributor plug to MPFI plug (matching colors)
>>>> wire from c1 goes to blue/grn wire on new distributor plug
>>>> wire from c2 goes to yell/grn wire on new distributor plug
>>>> extend TPS plug 6" and swap outer 2 wires
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> sounds like you forgot to switch the TPS wires
>>>
>>> Both engines (the one that came out of the car, and the new one) have
>>> the same intake systems, the "PGM-FI PROGRAMMED FUEL INJECTION"
>>> throttle bodies and multipoint injectors. I'll tell him to
>>> double-check the wiring, but I don't think that'll be it.
>>
>> it's likely that it is - the tps sensor rotation is opposite on the
>> 2pfi to the 4pfi. the plug and sensors are the same but the wires are
>> reversed as a result.
>
> Except that both the previous engine and the new engine are both MPFI
> with identical throttle bodies...
>
then check the cam timing.

Re: Civic hesitation problem...
 

Michael Pardee wrote:
> "Matt Ion" <soundy106@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:NE21i.173204$DE1.115546@pd7urf2no...
>> Buddy of mine just rebuilt (with all OEM parts!) a D16A6 with PGM-FI for
>> his '89 Civic (including the appropriate computer and wiring harness). Got
>> it installed, turned the key, engine turned 3 times... and fired right up.
>> Very nice. Idles smoooooth and quiet...
>>
>> But when he gives it any gas, even just sitting in neutral, it bogs and
>> hesitates. Hit the gas too fast, and it just sputters and dies. Do it
>> carefully, and once it gets 1800rpm or so, it works fine. It also seems
>> to idle a little bit rich.
>>
>> Thoughts? Ideas? He's checked for error codes, but it's not giving any.
>>
>> TIA
>>
> It would really help to separate mixture trouble from ignition trouble. How
> about a timing light to see what the timing does when the throttle is opened
> a bit? The timing should advance a few degrees, but not jump fifteen degrees
> or retard a lot. (It may retard some based on the rise in MAP.) Similarly he
> can try adding a squirt of starting fluid into the air cleaner a second
> before he opens the throttle to see if that improves the response - which
> would point to a lean mixture on throttle opening.

Ignition timing has already been checked, but I'll pass on the other
suggestion.

Re: Civic hesitation problem...
 

Michael Pardee wrote:
> "Matt Ion" <soundy106@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:NE21i.173204$DE1.115546@pd7urf2no...
>> Buddy of mine just rebuilt (with all OEM parts!) a D16A6 with PGM-FI for
>> his '89 Civic (including the appropriate computer and wiring harness). Got
>> it installed, turned the key, engine turned 3 times... and fired right up.
>> Very nice. Idles smoooooth and quiet...
>>
>> But when he gives it any gas, even just sitting in neutral, it bogs and
>> hesitates. Hit the gas too fast, and it just sputters and dies. Do it
>> carefully, and once it gets 1800rpm or so, it works fine. It also seems
>> to idle a little bit rich.
>>
>> Thoughts? Ideas? He's checked for error codes, but it's not giving any.
>>
>> TIA
>>
> It would really help to separate mixture trouble from ignition trouble. How
> about a timing light to see what the timing does when the throttle is opened
> a bit? The timing should advance a few degrees, but not jump fifteen degrees
> or retard a lot. (It may retard some based on the rise in MAP.) Similarly he
> can try adding a squirt of starting fluid into the air cleaner a second
> before he opens the throttle to see if that improves the response - which
> would point to a lean mixture on throttle opening.

Ignition timing has already been checked, but I'll pass on the other
suggestion.