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Civic stuck in park - what's the deal with this problem?
Hi, I just had my 2007 Civic lock itself in park several times and I
was barely able to get it back to Drive so I could get to and from work today. I dug through the manual and found the little trick called the Shift Lock Release, which is a little slot right above the shift lever. You remove this cover - about 1/8" x 3/4" and push the key into it and then you can move the lever into neutral, start the car, then put it into reverse or drive. My question is, how common is this problem, what causes it, and why is it SO common that Honda even put this little slot there so you can deal with the problem relatively easily? Apparently this is a problem they have been having for some time, so they invented this little slot to help the owner over-ride the problem at least temporarily. So how long has this been going on? The manual says this is an indication that something is going wrong with the transmission. What should I expect when I take it into the shop on Monday? I bought Honda because it is supposed to be so reliable. Having a problem like this one year in, isn't a good sign... |
Re: Civic stuck in park - what's the deal with this problem?
mindfulnessnow@gmail.com wrote:
> Hi, I just had my 2007 Civic lock itself in park several times and I > was barely able to get it back to Drive so I could get to and from > work today. > > I dug through the manual and found the little trick called the Shift > Lock Release, which is a little slot right above the shift lever. You > remove this cover - about 1/8" x 3/4" and push the key into it and > then you can move the lever into neutral, start the car, then put it > into reverse or drive. > > My question is, how common is this problem, what causes it, and why is > it SO common that Honda even put this little slot there so you can > deal with the problem relatively easily? Apparently this is a problem > they have been having for some time, so they invented this little slot > to help the owner over-ride the problem at least temporarily. So how > long has this been going on? > > The manual says this is an indication that something is going wrong > with the transmission. > > What should I expect when I take it into the shop on Monday? > > I bought Honda because it is supposed to be so reliable. Having a > problem like this one year in, isn't a good sign... > you know you're supposed to have the brakes on when you try to release it from "park", right? [the slot is there so the vehicle can be released and rolled or towed, even with a flat battery.] |
Re: Civic stuck in park - what's the deal with this problem?
In article
<bcb7635f-309c-4f6f-8bb2-37f4e8bfd320@f10g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, mindfulnessnow@gmail.com wrote: > Hi, I just had my 2007 Civic lock itself in park several times and I > was barely able to get it back to Drive so I could get to and from > work today. > > I dug through the manual and found the little trick called the Shift > Lock Release, which is a little slot right above the shift lever. You > remove this cover - about 1/8" x 3/4" and push the key into it and > then you can move the lever into neutral, start the car, then put it > into reverse or drive. > > My question is, how common is this problem, what causes it, and why is > it SO common that Honda even put this little slot there so you can > deal with the problem relatively easily? Apparently this is a problem > they have been having for some time, so they invented this little slot > to help the owner over-ride the problem at least temporarily. So how > long has this been going on? Um....let's see.....over 20 years now, ever since 60 Minutes manufactured the Audi "problem" so they could sell advertising. You never, ever noticed this before? You never read your owner's manual? You never wondered "gee, why do I have to put my foot on the brake just so I can pull it out of Park?" You never heard the "click" as you put your foot on the brake, the sound of the trans lock solenoid releasing? > The manual says this is an indication that something is going wrong > with the transmission. Quote that for us, please. It's MUCH more likely a problem with the brake pedal switch. |
Re: Civic stuck in park - what's the deal with this problem?
Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article > <bcb7635f-309c-4f6f-8bb2-37f4e8bfd320@f10g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, > mindfulnessnow@gmail.com wrote: > >> Hi, I just had my 2007 Civic lock itself in park several times and I >> was barely able to get it back to Drive so I could get to and from >> work today. >> >> I dug through the manual and found the little trick called the Shift >> Lock Release, which is a little slot right above the shift lever. You >> remove this cover - about 1/8" x 3/4" and push the key into it and >> then you can move the lever into neutral, start the car, then put it >> into reverse or drive. >> >> My question is, how common is this problem, what causes it, and why is >> it SO common that Honda even put this little slot there so you can >> deal with the problem relatively easily? Apparently this is a problem >> they have been having for some time, so they invented this little slot >> to help the owner over-ride the problem at least temporarily. So how >> long has this been going on? > > Um....let's see.....over 20 years now, ever since 60 Minutes > manufactured the Audi "problem" so they could sell advertising. They didn't manufacture the problem. They reported it. And, I think, having the lock is a good idea. > You never, ever noticed this before? You never read your owner's > manual? You never wondered "gee, why do I have to put my foot on the > brake just so I can pull it out of Park?" You never heard the "click" > as you put your foot on the brake, the sound of the trans lock solenoid > releasing? I have never heard the click, myself, when I drive an automatic. >> The manual says this is an indication that something is going wrong >> with the transmission. > > Quote that for us, please. > > It's MUCH more likely a problem with the brake pedal switch. That's true. It can also be a problem with the solenoid, the wiring or operator error. Jeff |
Re: Civic stuck in park - what's the deal with this problem?
In article <LBZoj.214$xE.131@trnddc01>, Jeff <kidsdoc2000@hotmail.com>
wrote: > > Um....let's see.....over 20 years now, ever since 60 Minutes > > manufactured the Audi "problem" so they could sell advertising. > > They didn't manufacture the problem. They reported it. No, they manufactured it. Such has been demonstrated since, by experts in the field who don't have yellow journalism to deliver. |
Re: Civic stuck in park - what's the deal with this problem?
Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article <LBZoj.214$xE.131@trnddc01>, Jeff <kidsdoc2000@hotmail.com> > wrote: > >>> Um....let's see.....over 20 years now, ever since 60 Minutes >>> manufactured the Audi "problem" so they could sell advertising. >> They didn't manufacture the problem. They reported it. > > No, they manufactured it. > > Such has been demonstrated since, by experts in the field who don't have > yellow journalism to deliver. Your evidence, please. |
Re: Civic stuck in park - what's the deal with this problem?
<mindfulnessnow@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:bcb7635f-309c-4f6f-8bb2-37f4e8bfd320@f10g2000hsf.googlegroups.com... > Hi, I just had my 2007 Civic lock itself in park several times and I > was barely able to get it back to Drive so I could get to and from > work today. > > I dug through the manual and found the little trick called the Shift > Lock Release, which is a little slot right above the shift lever. You > remove this cover - about 1/8" x 3/4" and push the key into it and > then you can move the lever into neutral, start the car, then put it > into reverse or drive. > > My question is, how common is this problem, what causes it, and why is > it SO common that Honda even put this little slot there so you can > deal with the problem relatively easily? Apparently this is a problem > they have been having for some time, so they invented this little slot > to help the owner over-ride the problem at least temporarily. So how > long has this been going on? > > The manual says this is an indication that something is going wrong > with the transmission. > > What should I expect when I take it into the shop on Monday? > > I bought Honda because it is supposed to be so reliable. Having a > problem like this one year in, isn't a good sign... > Those clever little Nip spin-meisters ! They've had everyone fooled for the last 25 years--- selling all those rice burners that fall apart two weeks after the warranty ends and no one but you sees through them! On that transmission release key slot, that was a specially installed feature on your car only. Ya' see when the salesman entered your order, he ticked the box for "Buyer is a whiney nitwit, " So the guys in the back dropped in a defective tranny with release slot.... |
Re: Civic stuck in park - what's the deal with this problem?
On 2/2/2008 6:45 AM Jeff spake these words of knowledge:
> Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote: >> In article >> <bcb7635f-309c-4f6f-8bb2-37f4e8bfd320@f10g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, >> mindfulnessnow@gmail.com wrote: >> >>> Hi, I just had my 2007 Civic lock itself in park several times and I >>> was barely able to get it back to Drive so I could get to and from >>> work today. >>> >>> I dug through the manual and found the little trick called the Shift >>> Lock Release, which is a little slot right above the shift lever. You >>> remove this cover - about 1/8" x 3/4" and push the key into it and >>> then you can move the lever into neutral, start the car, then put it >>> into reverse or drive. >>> >>> My question is, how common is this problem, what causes it, and why is >>> it SO common that Honda even put this little slot there so you can >>> deal with the problem relatively easily? Apparently this is a problem >>> they have been having for some time, so they invented this little slot >>> to help the owner over-ride the problem at least temporarily. So how >>> long has this been going on? >> >> Um....let's see.....over 20 years now, ever since 60 Minutes >> manufactured the Audi "problem" so they could sell advertising. > > They didn't manufacture the problem. They reported it. And, I think, > having the lock is a good idea. I personally owned a 1979 Audi 5000S, and a little later a 1980 Audi 5000S. As a result, I got to know a fair number of other Audi owners and drivers. I never once had a problem, nor did I ever hear of anyone else who had a problem with 'unintended acceleration' outside of the news stories. This is anecdotal, I understand. But it seemed clear to me that there wasn't any problem with the cars; the problem, if it existed, was with the drivers. It seemed to me. RFT!!! Dave Kelsen -- "So much of what we call management consists in making it difficult for people to work." -- Peter Drucker |
Re: Civic stuck in park - what's the deal with this problem?
On Sat, 02 Feb 2008 08:53:23 -0600, Dave Kelsen
<invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote: >On 2/2/2008 6:45 AM Jeff spake these words of knowledge: > >> Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote: >>> In article >>> <bcb7635f-309c-4f6f-8bb2-37f4e8bfd320@f10g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, >>> mindfulnessnow@gmail.com wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, I just had my 2007 Civic lock itself in park several times and I >>>> was barely able to get it back to Drive so I could get to and from >>>> work today. >>>> >>>> I dug through the manual and found the little trick called the Shift >>>> Lock Release, which is a little slot right above the shift lever. You >>>> remove this cover - about 1/8" x 3/4" and push the key into it and >>>> then you can move the lever into neutral, start the car, then put it >>>> into reverse or drive. >>>> >>>> My question is, how common is this problem, what causes it, and why is >>>> it SO common that Honda even put this little slot there so you can >>>> deal with the problem relatively easily? Apparently this is a problem >>>> they have been having for some time, so they invented this little slot >>>> to help the owner over-ride the problem at least temporarily. So how >>>> long has this been going on? >>> >>> Um....let's see.....over 20 years now, ever since 60 Minutes >>> manufactured the Audi "problem" so they could sell advertising. >> >> They didn't manufacture the problem. They reported it. And, I think, >> having the lock is a good idea. > >I personally owned a 1979 Audi 5000S, and a little later a 1980 Audi >5000S. As a result, I got to know a fair number of other Audi owners >and drivers. I never once had a problem, nor did I ever hear of anyone >else who had a problem with 'unintended acceleration' outside of the >news stories. > >This is anecdotal, I understand. But it seemed clear to me that there >wasn't any problem with the cars; the problem, if it existed, was with >the drivers. It seemed to me. It may well have been the drivers - probably was. But that is scant consolation when you just crushed your kid to death. Based on the frequency which this type of accident occurred with the 5000, something was wrong with it. Might have been 100% ergonomic but there was a problem and it wasn't unique to Audi. The shift interlock was a good solution. Cheap, effective and it in no way interferes with normal operation of the car (barring mechanical failure which can occur with any system in the vehicle). Note that unintended acceleration accidents have practically disappeared from the news. How many lives have been saved by the 60 Minutes expose, even if the actual cause was not strictly mechanical? Some people just like to bitch and moan about how this is idiot-proofing, but as long as we are allowing idiots to drive cars... If this (idiot-proofing) is really such a problem, we should ban automatic transmissions altogether. If you are too stupid, incapacitated or uncoordinated to drive a manual transmission, take the bus. |
Re: Civic stuck in park - what's the deal with this problem?
On 2/1/08 8:59 PM, in article bcb7635f-309c-4f6f-8bb2-37f4e8bfd320...oglegroups.com, "mindfulnessnow@gmail.com" <mindfulnessnow@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi, I just had my 2007 Civic lock itself in park several times and I > was barely able to get it back to Drive so I could get to and from > work today. > > I dug through the manual and found the little trick called the Shift > Lock Release, which is a little slot right above the shift lever. You > remove this cover - about 1/8" x 3/4" and push the key into it and > then you can move the lever into neutral, start the car, then put it > into reverse or drive. > > My question is, how common is this problem, what causes it, and why is > it SO common that Honda even put this little slot there so you can > deal with the problem relatively easily? Apparently this is a problem > they have been having for some time, so they invented this little slot > to help the owner over-ride the problem at least temporarily. So how > long has this been going on? > > The manual says this is an indication that something is going wrong > with the transmission. > > What should I expect when I take it into the shop on Monday? > > I bought Honda because it is supposed to be so reliable. Having a > problem like this one year in, isn't a good sign... > Be glad you have a Honda with the slot. On a Nissan, you have to remove the entire trim piece around the shifter and then guess at what to prod with a screwdriver to get it to move. The problem is a stuck shift lock. The cure will either be a simple adjustment of the switch on the brake pedal that releases it or maybe replacement of a part. Should be quick and easy repair. Has nothing to do with the transmission itself and the warranty should cover it --- unless its "Pepsi Syndrome". You didn't perchance spill a drink in there to gum it up? |
Re: Civic stuck in park - what's the deal with this problem?
In article <2p39q3p0644fq63oghjvmtfe290lugb7b9@4ax.com>,
Gordon McGrew <RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote: > Based on the frequency which this type of accident occurred with the > 5000, something was wrong with it. Did you ever notice how after the first time someone claimed to find a needle in a can of Pepsi, there were ALL SORTS of other reports about the same thing? If you look hard enough, and if your journalist's notepad is yellow enough, you can find anything. |
Re: Civic stuck in park - what's the deal with this problem?
In article <ZO_oj.222$xE.148@trnddc01>, Jeff <kidsdoc2000@hotmail.com>
wrote: > > No, they manufactured it. > > > > Such has been demonstrated since, by experts in the field who don't have > > yellow journalism to deliver. > > Your evidence, please. Let me go back to my Car and Driver collection and find that. |
Re: Civic stuck in park - what's the deal with this problem?
All this bull crap for a simple question. Check your brake switch as it is
probably bad or intermittent. <mindfulnessnow@gmail.com> wrote in message news:bcb7635f-309c-4f6f-8bb2-37f4e8bfd320@f10g2000hsf.googlegroups.com... > Hi, I just had my 2007 Civic lock itself in park several times and I > was barely able to get it back to Drive so I could get to and from > work today. > > I dug through the manual and found the little trick called the Shift > Lock Release, which is a little slot right above the shift lever. You > remove this cover - about 1/8" x 3/4" and push the key into it and > then you can move the lever into neutral, start the car, then put it > into reverse or drive. > > My question is, how common is this problem, what causes it, and why is > it SO common that Honda even put this little slot there so you can > deal with the problem relatively easily? Apparently this is a problem > they have been having for some time, so they invented this little slot > to help the owner over-ride the problem at least temporarily. So how > long has this been going on? > > The manual says this is an indication that something is going wrong > with the transmission. > > What should I expect when I take it into the shop on Monday? > > I bought Honda because it is supposed to be so reliable. Having a > problem like this one year in, isn't a good sign... > |
Re: Civic stuck in park - what's the deal with this problem?
Woody wrote:
> All this bull crap for a simple question. ... What else do you expect on the internet??? |
Re: Civic stuck in park - what's the deal with this problem?
On 2/2/2008 9:52 AM Gordon McGrew spake these words of knowledge:
> On Sat, 02 Feb 2008 08:53:23 -0600, Dave Kelsen > <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote: > <snip> >> >>I personally owned a 1979 Audi 5000S, and a little later a 1980 Audi >>5000S. As a result, I got to know a fair number of other Audi owners >>and drivers. I never once had a problem, nor did I ever hear of anyone >>else who had a problem with 'unintended acceleration' outside of the >>news stories. >> >>This is anecdotal, I understand. But it seemed clear to me that there >>wasn't any problem with the cars; the problem, if it existed, was with >>the drivers. It seemed to me. > > It may well have been the drivers - probably was. But that is scant > consolation when you just crushed your kid to death. > > Based on the frequency which this type of accident occurred with the > 5000, something was wrong with it. Might have been 100% ergonomic but > there was a problem and it wasn't unique to Audi. The shift interlock > was a good solution. Cheap, effective and it in no way interferes > with normal operation of the car (barring mechanical failure which can > occur with any system in the vehicle). Note that unintended > acceleration accidents have practically disappeared from the news. How > many lives have been saved by the 60 Minutes expose, even if the > actual cause was not strictly mechanical? > > Some people just like to bitch and moan about how this is > idiot-proofing, but as long as we are allowing idiots to drive cars... > If this (idiot-proofing) is really such a problem, we should ban > automatic transmissions altogether. If you are too stupid, > incapacitated or uncoordinated to drive a manual transmission, take > the bus. I can't really argue with that, Gordon; I can't really see that it's hurt anything, after all. I do note that unintended acceleration accidents were not prevalent in the news for the 70 or so years of driving before the interlock either, except for the brief flurry of Audi stories and lawsuits. RFT!!! Dave Kelsen -- "The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. To be your own man is hard business. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." -- Rudyard Kipling |
Re: Civic stuck in park - what's the deal with this problem?
Gordon McGrew wrote:
> On Sat, 02 Feb 2008 08:53:23 -0600, Dave Kelsen > <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote: > >> On 2/2/2008 6:45 AM Jeff spake these words of knowledge: >> >>> Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote: >>>> In article >>>> <bcb7635f-309c-4f6f-8bb2-37f4e8bfd320@f10g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, >>>> mindfulnessnow@gmail.com wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi, I just had my 2007 Civic lock itself in park several times and I >>>>> was barely able to get it back to Drive so I could get to and from >>>>> work today. >>>>> >>>>> I dug through the manual and found the little trick called the Shift >>>>> Lock Release, which is a little slot right above the shift lever. You >>>>> remove this cover - about 1/8" x 3/4" and push the key into it and >>>>> then you can move the lever into neutral, start the car, then put it >>>>> into reverse or drive. >>>>> >>>>> My question is, how common is this problem, what causes it, and why is >>>>> it SO common that Honda even put this little slot there so you can >>>>> deal with the problem relatively easily? Apparently this is a problem >>>>> they have been having for some time, so they invented this little slot >>>>> to help the owner over-ride the problem at least temporarily. So how >>>>> long has this been going on? >>>> Um....let's see.....over 20 years now, ever since 60 Minutes >>>> manufactured the Audi "problem" so they could sell advertising. >>> They didn't manufacture the problem. They reported it. And, I think, >>> having the lock is a good idea. >> I personally owned a 1979 Audi 5000S, and a little later a 1980 Audi >> 5000S. As a result, I got to know a fair number of other Audi owners >> and drivers. I never once had a problem, nor did I ever hear of anyone >> else who had a problem with 'unintended acceleration' outside of the >> news stories. >> >> This is anecdotal, I understand. But it seemed clear to me that there >> wasn't any problem with the cars; the problem, if it existed, was with >> the drivers. It seemed to me. > > It may well have been the drivers - probably was. But that is scant > consolation when you just crushed your kid to death. > > Based on the frequency which this type of accident occurred with the > 5000, something was wrong with it. Might have been 100% ergonomic but > there was a problem and it wasn't unique to Audi. The shift interlock > was a good solution. no it wasn't. the only way the engine can rev, outside of the throttle being pressed, is by a malfunction in the idle control system. and a shift interlock does damn-all to address this. > Cheap, effective and it in no way interferes > with normal operation of the car (barring mechanical failure which can > occur with any system in the vehicle). Note that unintended > acceleration accidents have practically disappeared from the news. How > many lives have been saved by the 60 Minutes expose, even if the > actual cause was not strictly mechanical? > > Some people just like to bitch and moan about how this is > idiot-proofing, but as long as we are allowing idiots to drive cars... > If this (idiot-proofing) is really such a problem, we should ban > automatic transmissions altogether. If you are too stupid, > incapacitated or uncoordinated to drive a manual transmission, take > the bus. > |
Re: Civic stuck in park - what's the deal with this problem?
In article <dMydnfIoiLx1VTnanZ2dnUVZ_gednZ2d@speakeasy.net> ,
jim beam <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote: > > Based on the frequency which this type of accident occurred with the > > 5000, something was wrong with it. Might have been 100% ergonomic but > > there was a problem and it wasn't unique to Audi. The shift interlock > > was a good solution. > > no it wasn't. the only way the engine can rev, outside of the throttle > being pressed, is by a malfunction in the idle control system. and a > shift interlock does damn-all to address this. If there was a problem with the car itself, and if many people were having the problem, and if it wasn't solely an Audi problem, then the potential for the problem is still there. That is, once the car is out of Park and into a gear, then the car could still accelerate unintendedly. So they mandate that the car can't go out of Park unless the brake pedal is pressed--and the problem went away completely?? Which tells us that the problem wasn't the car at all, that there is no such thing as unintended acceleration. The problem is and always was idiots not operating the car correctly. |
Re: Civic stuck in park - what's the deal with this problem?
Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article <dMydnfIoiLx1VTnanZ2dnUVZ_gednZ2d@speakeasy.net> , > jim beam <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote: > >>> Based on the frequency which this type of accident occurred with the >>> 5000, something was wrong with it. Might have been 100% ergonomic but >>> there was a problem and it wasn't unique to Audi. The shift interlock >>> was a good solution. >> no it wasn't. the only way the engine can rev, outside of the throttle >> being pressed, is by a malfunction in the idle control system. and a >> shift interlock does damn-all to address this. > > If there was a problem with the car itself, and if many people were > having the problem, and if it wasn't solely an Audi problem, then the > potential for the problem is still there. > > That is, once the car is out of Park and into a gear, then the car could > still accelerate unintendedly. > > So they mandate that the car can't go out of Park unless the brake pedal > is pressed--and the problem went away completely?? > > Which tells us that the problem wasn't the car at all, that there is no > such thing as unintended acceleration. The problem is and always was > idiots not operating the car correctly. > indeed. unfortunately, this whole sorry episode is symptomatic of the way detroit "competes". when it does so, it's not by addressing product competence, it always does it politically. because it's cheaper. [while that buys time, ultimately, it will be the cancer that kills the us domestic vehicle manufacturing industry.] red rear turn signals? amber ones cost a little more, so a few bucks invested in lobbying ensures the nhtsa shut up and freeway fatalities caused by signaling confusion are quietly forgotten. suv rollovers? simply lobby for financial relief using inflated costs of product redesign vs. the cost to gdp of killing the wage earners that typically drive them. [and blame a tire manufacturer who's not smart enough to grease palms.] want to nix a spectacular new product that would crush the highly profitable 4wd market [which the japanese were mostly not at that time interested in]? create a product scare about it and threaten recalls! easy. audi created a sensation in europe with their 4wd quattro. it was a major threat to detroit if sold here. that threat had to be eliminated. |
Re: Civic stuck in park - what's the deal with this problem?
On Sat, 02 Feb 2008 11:35:26 -0500, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
<elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote: >In article <2p39q3p0644fq63oghjvmtfe290lugb7b9@4ax.com>, > Gordon McGrew <RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote: > >> Based on the frequency which this type of accident occurred with the >> 5000, something was wrong with it. > >Did you ever notice how after the first time someone claimed to find a >needle in a can of Pepsi, there were ALL SORTS of other reports about >the same thing? Did you notice how none of those needle-in-the-Pepsi reports involved needles being extracted from peoples' throats? The unintended acceleration reports invariably involve a car smashed into a garage or other unlikely object (and not a few deaths BTW.) >If you look hard enough, and if your journalist's notepad is yellow >enough, you can find anything. The journalist's job is to dig up dirt. A lot of them end up getting buried as a result. Journalists are as important to freedom and democracy as the military. |
Re: Civic stuck in park - what's the deal with this problem?
On Sat, 02 Feb 2008 11:47:52 -0800, jim beam
<spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote: >Gordon McGrew wrote: >> On Sat, 02 Feb 2008 08:53:23 -0600, Dave Kelsen >> <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote: >> >>> On 2/2/2008 6:45 AM Jeff spake these words of knowledge: >>> >>>> Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote: >>>>> In article >>>>> <bcb7635f-309c-4f6f-8bb2-37f4e8bfd320@f10g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, >>>>> mindfulnessnow@gmail.com wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi, I just had my 2007 Civic lock itself in park several times and I >>>>>> was barely able to get it back to Drive so I could get to and from >>>>>> work today. >>>>>> >>>>>> I dug through the manual and found the little trick called the Shift >>>>>> Lock Release, which is a little slot right above the shift lever. You >>>>>> remove this cover - about 1/8" x 3/4" and push the key into it and >>>>>> then you can move the lever into neutral, start the car, then put it >>>>>> into reverse or drive. >>>>>> >>>>>> My question is, how common is this problem, what causes it, and why is >>>>>> it SO common that Honda even put this little slot there so you can >>>>>> deal with the problem relatively easily? Apparently this is a problem >>>>>> they have been having for some time, so they invented this little slot >>>>>> to help the owner over-ride the problem at least temporarily. So how >>>>>> long has this been going on? >>>>> Um....let's see.....over 20 years now, ever since 60 Minutes >>>>> manufactured the Audi "problem" so they could sell advertising. >>>> They didn't manufacture the problem. They reported it. And, I think, >>>> having the lock is a good idea. >>> I personally owned a 1979 Audi 5000S, and a little later a 1980 Audi >>> 5000S. As a result, I got to know a fair number of other Audi owners >>> and drivers. I never once had a problem, nor did I ever hear of anyone >>> else who had a problem with 'unintended acceleration' outside of the >>> news stories. >>> >>> This is anecdotal, I understand. But it seemed clear to me that there >>> wasn't any problem with the cars; the problem, if it existed, was with >>> the drivers. It seemed to me. >> >> It may well have been the drivers - probably was. But that is scant >> consolation when you just crushed your kid to death. >> >> Based on the frequency which this type of accident occurred with the >> 5000, something was wrong with it. Might have been 100% ergonomic but >> there was a problem and it wasn't unique to Audi. The shift interlock >> was a good solution. > >no it wasn't. the only way the engine can rev, outside of the throttle >being pressed, is by a malfunction in the idle control system. and a >shift interlock does damn-all to address this. The only way for you to hit the windshield is to drive the car into something. Seat belts do damn-all to address this. > > >> Cheap, effective and it in no way interferes >> with normal operation of the car (barring mechanical failure which can >> occur with any system in the vehicle). Note that unintended >> acceleration accidents have practically disappeared from the news. How >> many lives have been saved by the 60 Minutes expose, even if the >> actual cause was not strictly mechanical? >> >> Some people just like to bitch and moan about how this is >> idiot-proofing, but as long as we are allowing idiots to drive cars... >> If this (idiot-proofing) is really such a problem, we should ban >> automatic transmissions altogether. If you are too stupid, >> incapacitated or uncoordinated to drive a manual transmission, take >> the bus. >> |
Re: Civic stuck in park - what's the deal with this problem?
On Sat, 02 Feb 2008 17:31:50 -0500, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
<elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote: >In article <dMydnfIoiLx1VTnanZ2dnUVZ_gednZ2d@speakeasy.net> , > jim beam <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote: > >> > Based on the frequency which this type of accident occurred with the >> > 5000, something was wrong with it. Might have been 100% ergonomic but >> > there was a problem and it wasn't unique to Audi. The shift interlock >> > was a good solution. >> >> no it wasn't. the only way the engine can rev, outside of the throttle >> being pressed, is by a malfunction in the idle control system. and a >> shift interlock does damn-all to address this. > >If there was a problem with the car itself, and if many people were >having the problem, and if it wasn't solely an Audi problem, then the >potential for the problem is still there. > >That is, once the car is out of Park and into a gear, then the car could >still accelerate unintendedly. > >So they mandate that the car can't go out of Park unless the brake pedal >is pressed--and the problem went away completely?? > >Which tells us that the problem wasn't the car at all, that there is no >such thing as unintended acceleration. The problem is and always was >idiots not operating the car correctly. Which is why the interlock was a good solution. |
Re: Civic stuck in park - what's the deal with this problem?
On Sat, 02 Feb 2008 15:21:27 -0800, jim beam
<spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote: >Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote: >> In article <dMydnfIoiLx1VTnanZ2dnUVZ_gednZ2d@speakeasy.net> , >> jim beam <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote: >> >>>> Based on the frequency which this type of accident occurred with the >>>> 5000, something was wrong with it. Might have been 100% ergonomic but >>>> there was a problem and it wasn't unique to Audi. The shift interlock >>>> was a good solution. >>> no it wasn't. the only way the engine can rev, outside of the throttle >>> being pressed, is by a malfunction in the idle control system. and a >>> shift interlock does damn-all to address this. >> >> If there was a problem with the car itself, and if many people were >> having the problem, and if it wasn't solely an Audi problem, then the >> potential for the problem is still there. >> >> That is, once the car is out of Park and into a gear, then the car could >> still accelerate unintendedly. >> >> So they mandate that the car can't go out of Park unless the brake pedal >> is pressed--and the problem went away completely?? >> >> Which tells us that the problem wasn't the car at all, that there is no >> such thing as unintended acceleration. The problem is and always was >> idiots not operating the car correctly. >> > >indeed. > >unfortunately, this whole sorry episode is symptomatic of the way >detroit "competes". when it does so, it's not by addressing product >competence, it always does it politically. because it's cheaper. >[while that buys time, ultimately, it will be the cancer that kills the >us domestic vehicle manufacturing industry.] Was the Audi 5000 a domestic product? I seem to recall that the interlock appeared on all cars - foreign and domestic - simultaneously. >red rear turn signals? amber ones cost a little more, so a few bucks >invested in lobbying ensures the nhtsa shut up and freeway fatalities >caused by signaling confusion are quietly forgotten. So you favor a government mandate on lens colors to protect idiots who are easily confused by flashing lights? >suv rollovers? simply lobby for financial relief using inflated costs of product >redesign vs. the cost to gdp of killing the wage earners that typically >drive them. [and blame a tire manufacturer who's not smart enough to >grease palms.] Industry will always do what is cheapest, at least in the short run. The Interlock was the cheapest solution to the unintended acceleration problem. Lobbying against it would have been more expensive and would have done nothing to reduce the problem. SUVs are (were?) a cash cow and the redesign is expensive and interferes with their intended use (i.e. looking macho and tough and sitting high above other traffic.) So industry went the lobby route on this one. > want to nix a spectacular new product that would crush >the highly profitable 4wd market [which the japanese were mostly not at >that time interested in]? create a product scare about it and threaten >recalls! easy. SUVs flipping over is a real problem. The media helped promote the idea that these vehicles were safer than cars while sweeping real safety concerns under the rug. >audi created a sensation in europe with their 4wd quattro. it was a >major threat to detroit if sold here. that threat had to be eliminated. Are you talking about the Audi 5000 incident? SUVs were a niche market back then and the quattro was hardly a threat to the Bronco. |
Re: Civic stuck in park - what's the deal with this problem?
Gordon McGrew wrote:
> On Sat, 02 Feb 2008 17:31:50 -0500, "Elmo P. Shagnasty" > <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote: > >> In article <dMydnfIoiLx1VTnanZ2dnUVZ_gednZ2d@speakeasy.net> , >> jim beam <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote: >> >>>> Based on the frequency which this type of accident occurred with the >>>> 5000, something was wrong with it. Might have been 100% ergonomic but >>>> there was a problem and it wasn't unique to Audi. The shift interlock >>>> was a good solution. >>> no it wasn't. the only way the engine can rev, outside of the throttle >>> being pressed, is by a malfunction in the idle control system. and a >>> shift interlock does damn-all to address this. >> If there was a problem with the car itself, and if many people were >> having the problem, and if it wasn't solely an Audi problem, then the >> potential for the problem is still there. >> >> That is, once the car is out of Park and into a gear, then the car could >> still accelerate unintendedly. >> >> So they mandate that the car can't go out of Park unless the brake pedal >> is pressed--and the problem went away completely?? >> >> Which tells us that the problem wasn't the car at all, that there is no >> such thing as unintended acceleration. The problem is and always was >> idiots not operating the car correctly. > > Which is why the interlock was a good solution. > if the car has a problem, say with idle control, and starts accelerating, how does an interlock stop that happening??? |
Re: Civic stuck in park - what's the deal with this problem?
Gordon McGrew wrote:
> On Sat, 02 Feb 2008 11:47:52 -0800, jim beam > <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote: > >> Gordon McGrew wrote: >>> On Sat, 02 Feb 2008 08:53:23 -0600, Dave Kelsen >>> <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>> >>>> On 2/2/2008 6:45 AM Jeff spake these words of knowledge: >>>> >>>>> Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote: >>>>>> In article >>>>>> <bcb7635f-309c-4f6f-8bb2-37f4e8bfd320@f10g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, >>>>>> mindfulnessnow@gmail.com wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi, I just had my 2007 Civic lock itself in park several times and I >>>>>>> was barely able to get it back to Drive so I could get to and from >>>>>>> work today. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I dug through the manual and found the little trick called the Shift >>>>>>> Lock Release, which is a little slot right above the shift lever. You >>>>>>> remove this cover - about 1/8" x 3/4" and push the key into it and >>>>>>> then you can move the lever into neutral, start the car, then put it >>>>>>> into reverse or drive. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> My question is, how common is this problem, what causes it, and why is >>>>>>> it SO common that Honda even put this little slot there so you can >>>>>>> deal with the problem relatively easily? Apparently this is a problem >>>>>>> they have been having for some time, so they invented this little slot >>>>>>> to help the owner over-ride the problem at least temporarily. So how >>>>>>> long has this been going on? >>>>>> Um....let's see.....over 20 years now, ever since 60 Minutes >>>>>> manufactured the Audi "problem" so they could sell advertising. >>>>> They didn't manufacture the problem. They reported it. And, I think, >>>>> having the lock is a good idea. >>>> I personally owned a 1979 Audi 5000S, and a little later a 1980 Audi >>>> 5000S. As a result, I got to know a fair number of other Audi owners >>>> and drivers. I never once had a problem, nor did I ever hear of anyone >>>> else who had a problem with 'unintended acceleration' outside of the >>>> news stories. >>>> >>>> This is anecdotal, I understand. But it seemed clear to me that there >>>> wasn't any problem with the cars; the problem, if it existed, was with >>>> the drivers. It seemed to me. >>> It may well have been the drivers - probably was. But that is scant >>> consolation when you just crushed your kid to death. >>> >>> Based on the frequency which this type of accident occurred with the >>> 5000, something was wrong with it. Might have been 100% ergonomic but >>> there was a problem and it wasn't unique to Audi. The shift interlock >>> was a good solution. >> no it wasn't. the only way the engine can rev, outside of the throttle >> being pressed, is by a malfunction in the idle control system. and a >> shift interlock does damn-all to address this. > > The only way for you to hit the windshield is to drive the car into > something. Seat belts do damn-all to address this. wow!!! potm!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >>> Cheap, effective and it in no way interferes >>> with normal operation of the car (barring mechanical failure which can >>> occur with any system in the vehicle). Note that unintended >>> acceleration accidents have practically disappeared from the news. How >>> many lives have been saved by the 60 Minutes expose, even if the >>> actual cause was not strictly mechanical? >>> >>> Some people just like to bitch and moan about how this is >>> idiot-proofing, but as long as we are allowing idiots to drive cars... >>> If this (idiot-proofing) is really such a problem, we should ban >>> automatic transmissions altogether. If you are too stupid, >>> incapacitated or uncoordinated to drive a manual transmission, take >>> the bus. >>> |
Re: Civic stuck in park - what's the deal with this problem?
Gordon McGrew wrote:
<snip crap> > Industry will always do what is cheapest, at least in the short run. > The Interlock was the cheapest solution to the unintended acceleration > problem. exactly how??? it doesn't affect throttle or idle control in any way. it doesn't over-ride the engine computer in any way. what is the mechanism for /how/ this is supposed to address a so-called "unwanted acceleration" problem??? |
Re: Civic stuck in park - what's the deal with this problem?
jim beam wrote:
> Gordon McGrew wrote: > <snip crap> >> Industry will always do what is cheapest, at least in the short run. >> The Interlock was the cheapest solution to the unintended acceleration >> problem. > > exactly how??? it doesn't affect throttle or idle control in any way. > it doesn't over-ride the engine computer in any way. what is the > mechanism for /how/ this is supposed to address a so-called "unwanted > acceleration" problem??? > I think you hit the nail on the head, Jim... The so-called "unwanted acceleration" problem with the Audi (et al) WASN'T. It occurred due to either driver error or, possibly, ergonomic design. Kinda like gun deaths. It ain't the gun that kills, it's the person in whose hands it lies that does the killing - intentional or otherwise. Those "accidents" occurred when the vehicle was placed into gear and the drivers, thinking they were putting their foot on the brake, instead placed them on the accelerator. The interlock, requiring that the brake pedal is depressed before the transmission can be moved from Park to Drive or Reverse, at least insures that the "loose nut" behind the steering wheel has their foot on the brake rather than the gas. What happens after they get the car in gear and remove their foot from the brake pedal is on them. Anyone ever hear of a documented case of a car running wild after the interlocks were made standard or, alternatively, somebody driving peacefully down the road at 45 m/h and have their car suddenly red line for no apparent reason? |
Re: Civic stuck in park - what's the deal with this problem?
Say What? wrote:
> jim beam wrote: >> Gordon McGrew wrote: >> <snip crap> >>> Industry will always do what is cheapest, at least in the short run. >>> The Interlock was the cheapest solution to the unintended acceleration >>> problem. >> >> exactly how??? it doesn't affect throttle or idle control in any way. >> it doesn't over-ride the engine computer in any way. what is the >> mechanism for /how/ this is supposed to address a so-called "unwanted >> acceleration" problem??? >> > > I think you hit the nail on the head, Jim... The so-called "unwanted > acceleration" problem with the Audi (et al) WASN'T. It occurred due to > either driver error or, possibly, ergonomic design. Kinda like gun > deaths. It ain't the gun that kills, it's the person in whose hands it > lies that does the killing - intentional or otherwise. > > Those "accidents" occurred when the vehicle was placed into gear and the > drivers, thinking they were putting their foot on the brake, instead > placed them on the accelerator. The interlock, requiring that the brake > pedal is depressed before the transmission can be moved from Park to > Drive or Reverse, at least insures that the "loose nut" behind the > steering wheel has their foot on the brake rather than the gas. What > happens after they get the car in gear and remove their foot from the > brake pedal is on them. > > Anyone ever hear of a documented case of a car running wild after the > interlocks were made standard or, alternatively, somebody driving > peacefully down the road at 45 m/h and have their car suddenly red line > for no apparent reason? yes, absolutely. and the interlock did damn-all to prevent it. my grandmother had an intersection crash with her lincoln continental. part of the dash panel in the footwell fell down and was bridging the gas and brake pedals. the motor is stronger than the brakes. inspection reveals this could easily happen on any of these vehicles. neither ford corporate nor the local dealer would return her calls or letters. has anyone launched a smear campaign to stop them importing their filthy "market-dominating, profit competing innovations" from mexico? no, they're "domestic"! has there been a move for legislation to connect the gas pedal to the child safety locks to prevent recurrence [or something equally unrelated]? no. and both are totally unrelated to ford's prolific lobbying... |
Re: Civic stuck in park - what's the deal with this problem?
On 2/3/2008 9:55 AM jim beam spake these words of knowledge:
> Gordon McGrew wrote: > <snip crap> >> Industry will always do what is cheapest, at least in the short run. >> The Interlock was the cheapest solution to the unintended acceleration >> problem. > > exactly how??? it doesn't affect throttle or idle control in any way. > it doesn't over-ride the engine computer in any way. what is the > mechanism for /how/ this is supposed to address a so-called "unwanted > acceleration" problem??? The interlock means you can't shift in to gear without holding down the brake. The car can't surge forward from a standing start with the brake applied. It's just that simple. I don't believe there was a problem with non-driver initiated acceleration. But there apparently was some problem with unintended acceleration. At the time, we Audi owners speculated it had to do with pedal placement, particularly on manual transmission vehicles. However the acceleration occurred, it was made impossible by the interlock. Irrespective of the cause of the acceleration, the interlock worked, because the driver had his foot on the brake. RFT!!! Dave Kelsen -- "Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are even incapable of forming such opinions." -- Albert Einstein |
Re: Civic stuck in park - what's the deal with this problem?
Dave Kelsen wrote:
> On 2/3/2008 9:55 AM jim beam spake these words of knowledge: > >> Gordon McGrew wrote: >> <snip crap> >>> Industry will always do what is cheapest, at least in the short run. >>> The Interlock was the cheapest solution to the unintended acceleration >>> problem. >> >> exactly how??? it doesn't affect throttle or idle control in any way. >> it doesn't over-ride the engine computer in any way. what is the >> mechanism for /how/ this is supposed to address a so-called "unwanted >> acceleration" problem??? > > The interlock means you can't shift in to gear without holding down the > brake. > > The car can't surge forward from a standing start with the brake > applied. It's just that simple. > > I don't believe there was a problem with non-driver initiated > acceleration. But there apparently was some problem with unintended > acceleration. At the time, we Audi owners speculated it had to do with > pedal placement, particularly on manual transmission vehicles. eh??? on a stick??? now you're really losing all contact with reality. > > However the acceleration occurred, it was made impossible by the > interlock. Irrespective of the cause of the acceleration, the interlock > worked, because the driver had his foot on the brake. you're not analyzing the facts. fact: the brake switch is activated before there is any serious braking starts to happen. unless there are two switches, one for the brake lights and one for the interlock that operates only when the brake is full on, there's no way an interlock can prevent the vehicle rolling. and interlocks work on the brake switch. this ignores, of course, the question of whether there is any throttle surge in the first place. |
Re: Civic stuck in park - what's the deal with this problem?
jim beam <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in
news:ErqdnfY67fXSkzvanZ2dnUVZ_j2dnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t: > Dave Kelsen wrote: >> On 2/3/2008 9:55 AM jim beam spake these words of knowledge: >> >>> Gordon McGrew wrote: >>> <snip crap> >>>> Industry will always do what is cheapest, at least in the short >>>> run. The Interlock was the cheapest solution to the unintended >>>> acceleration problem. >>> >>> exactly how??? it doesn't affect throttle or idle control in any >>> way. it doesn't over-ride the engine computer in any way. what is >>> the mechanism for /how/ this is supposed to address a so-called >>> "unwanted acceleration" problem??? >> >> The interlock means you can't shift in to gear without holding down >> the brake. >> >> The car can't surge forward from a standing start with the brake >> applied. It's just that simple. >> >> I don't believe there was a problem with non-driver initiated >> acceleration. But there apparently was some problem with unintended >> acceleration. At the time, we Audi owners speculated it had to do >> with pedal placement, particularly on manual transmission vehicles. > > eh??? on a stick??? now you're really losing all contact with > reality. > > > >> >> However the acceleration occurred, it was made impossible by the >> interlock. Irrespective of the cause of the acceleration, the >> interlock worked, because the driver had his foot on the brake. > > you're not analyzing the facts. fact: the brake switch is activated > before there is any serious braking starts to happen. unless there > are two switches, one for the brake lights and one for the interlock > that operates only when the brake is full on, there's no way an > interlock can prevent the vehicle rolling. and interlocks work on the > brake switch. this ignores, of course, the question of whether there > is any throttle surge in the first place. > "unintended accelleration"(UA) occurred when the driver started the car with their foot on or hovering over the GAS pedal instead of on/over the brake,and when the car lurched forward,they stomped on the GAS instead of the brake they -thought- they were stomping on,and the car accellerated instead of stopping. "left-foot" brakers are more susceptible to this UA problem. Thus,even if their foot was not pressing enough to actvate the braking,the foot was still OVER/on the brake pedal if the car lurched,so they would stomp on the BRAKE instead of the gas.(right-foot brakers) I've never heard of any manual shift cars in UA crashes.(because the car doesn't lurch when shifting into gear,the clutch has control.) -- Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net |
Re: Civic stuck in park - what's the deal with this problem?
On Sun, 03 Feb 2008 07:46:42 -0800, jim beam
<spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote: >Gordon McGrew wrote: >> On Sat, 02 Feb 2008 17:31:50 -0500, "Elmo P. Shagnasty" >> <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote: >> >>> In article <dMydnfIoiLx1VTnanZ2dnUVZ_gednZ2d@speakeasy.net> , >>> jim beam <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote: >>> >>>>> Based on the frequency which this type of accident occurred with the >>>>> 5000, something was wrong with it. Might have been 100% ergonomic but >>>>> there was a problem and it wasn't unique to Audi. The shift interlock >>>>> was a good solution. >>>> no it wasn't. the only way the engine can rev, outside of the throttle >>>> being pressed, is by a malfunction in the idle control system. and a >>>> shift interlock does damn-all to address this. >>> If there was a problem with the car itself, and if many people were >>> having the problem, and if it wasn't solely an Audi problem, then the >>> potential for the problem is still there. >>> >>> That is, once the car is out of Park and into a gear, then the car could >>> still accelerate unintendedly. >>> >>> So they mandate that the car can't go out of Park unless the brake pedal >>> is pressed--and the problem went away completely?? >>> >>> Which tells us that the problem wasn't the car at all, that there is no >>> such thing as unintended acceleration. The problem is and always was >>> idiots not operating the car correctly. >> >> Which is why the interlock was a good solution. >> > >if the car has a problem, say with idle control, and starts >accelerating, how does an interlock stop that happening??? Is there a problem with the idle control? If so, the interlock won't help. But if the problem is and always was idiots [and others] not operating the car correctly, the interlock reduces the problem. |
Re: Civic stuck in park - what's the deal with this problem?
On Sun, 03 Feb 2008 07:55:49 -0800, jim beam
<spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote: >Gordon McGrew wrote: ><snip crap> >> Industry will always do what is cheapest, at least in the short run. >> The Interlock was the cheapest solution to the unintended acceleration >> problem. > >exactly how??? it doesn't affect throttle or idle control in any way. >it doesn't over-ride the engine computer in any way. what is the >mechanism for /how/ this is supposed to address a so-called "unwanted >acceleration" problem??? Because, as we both agreed three posts ago, the engine computer isn't the problem. The problem is people accidentally hitting the gas instead of the brake. The first defense against this is good ergonomic design to minimize the chance of this happening. The second defense is the interlock which is cheaper, more quickly implemented and more easily mandated by law, if necessary. |
Re: Civic stuck in park - what's the deal with this problem?
On Sun, 03 Feb 2008 12:35:34 -0600, Dave Kelsen
<invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote: >On 2/3/2008 9:55 AM jim beam spake these words of knowledge: > >> Gordon McGrew wrote: >> <snip crap> >>> Industry will always do what is cheapest, at least in the short run. >>> The Interlock was the cheapest solution to the unintended acceleration >>> problem. >> >> exactly how??? it doesn't affect throttle or idle control in any way. >> it doesn't over-ride the engine computer in any way. what is the >> mechanism for /how/ this is supposed to address a so-called "unwanted >> acceleration" problem??? > >The interlock means you can't shift in to gear without holding down the >brake. > >The car can't surge forward from a standing start with the brake >applied. It's just that simple. > >I don't believe there was a problem with non-driver initiated >acceleration. But there apparently was some problem with unintended >acceleration. At the time, we Audi owners speculated it had to do with >pedal placement, particularly on manual transmission vehicles. I think the problem was pretty much confined to AT cars. > >However the acceleration occurred, it was made impossible by the >interlock. Irrespective of the cause of the acceleration, the interlock >worked, because the driver had his foot on the brake. > >RFT!!! >Dave Kelsen |
Re: Civic stuck in park - what's the deal with this problem?
Gordon McGrew wrote:
> On Sun, 03 Feb 2008 07:46:42 -0800, jim beam > <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote: > >> Gordon McGrew wrote: >>> On Sat, 02 Feb 2008 17:31:50 -0500, "Elmo P. Shagnasty" >>> <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote: >>> >>>> In article <dMydnfIoiLx1VTnanZ2dnUVZ_gednZ2d@speakeasy.net> , >>>> jim beam <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote: >>>> >>>>>> Based on the frequency which this type of accident occurred with the >>>>>> 5000, something was wrong with it. Might have been 100% ergonomic but >>>>>> there was a problem and it wasn't unique to Audi. The shift interlock >>>>>> was a good solution. >>>>> no it wasn't. the only way the engine can rev, outside of the throttle >>>>> being pressed, is by a malfunction in the idle control system. and a >>>>> shift interlock does damn-all to address this. >>>> If there was a problem with the car itself, and if many people were >>>> having the problem, and if it wasn't solely an Audi problem, then the >>>> potential for the problem is still there. >>>> >>>> That is, once the car is out of Park and into a gear, then the car could >>>> still accelerate unintendedly. >>>> >>>> So they mandate that the car can't go out of Park unless the brake pedal >>>> is pressed--and the problem went away completely?? >>>> >>>> Which tells us that the problem wasn't the car at all, that there is no >>>> such thing as unintended acceleration. The problem is and always was >>>> idiots not operating the car correctly. >>> Which is why the interlock was a good solution. >>> >> if the car has a problem, say with idle control, and starts >> accelerating, how does an interlock stop that happening??? > > Is there a problem with the idle control? If so, the interlock won't > help. But if the problem is and always was idiots [and others] not > operating the car correctly, the interlock reduces the problem. > > it would be more effective to put an i.q. interlock on the ignition. |
Re: Civic stuck in park - what's the deal with this problem?
Jeff wrote:
> Your evidence, please. How about that the interlock is only on US cars? -SP |
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