CivicLX -2003 auto 68K - Sluggish pickup in cold start condition -diagonosis needed
 

Hi Guys,

Happy thanksgiving to you all!! I was browsing through the net for my
issue and found this group. So I thought I'll ask the group's advice
before I go to the St(d)ealer!!

I live in Chicago suburbs. I have a 2003 civic LX auto with
68000Miles. During these cold days (20 to 35 F), the car is sluggish
in pick up when the engine is cold. It is as if I have a 500 Lb load
on the car. The gears shift at higher rpms, but there are not issues
with gear shift.

Once the car is warmed up, the pickup is fine and acceleration is
normal.

But I notice the vibration level is little more. Milage dropped a
little (from 32.5 to 31.5) after the service and I assume that is due
the the lower temperatures. Now I'm about to fill the tank again and
I'll probably get ~28mpg. (300miles for 11 gal of regular BP gas).

History of the car:
I Bought the car in Aug-08.
The previous user is an ASME certified mechanic
The car has a provision for a hitch to mount (This is to let you guys
know that the car may be used for towing)
Previous oil is 10W30 Valvoline durablend
Driven about 1000 mi/ month so far
I'm a very smooth driver; no rapid accelerations, no violent braking;
no racing in the stop lights with other cars.
Always driven by me only. No passengers in the car.
I drive 28 miles per day in mostly city roads; no freeway drive.
After 66000 Miles, "maintenance required" lamp is on and is still on.
But the check engine light is off.


About 1000 miles ago I changed oil at Walmart ( I supplied the 5W30
valvoline durablend oil and they did the change. however I did not
supply the oil filter with the oil. I assumed that they replaced the
filter and charged me. I do not have the service receipt with me now).
However, Honda manual recommends 5W20 oil.

I suspect that the oil filter has not been replaced and the oil
bypasses the filter and eating the bearings and cylinders resulting in
higher blow-by and loss of compression resulting in power loss. Can
this be true? Is there any indication to the driver that oil
constantly bypass the filter like check engine lamp?

Or is it something to do with the tranny oil (I donno what oil is in
there!) or the throttle position sensor malfunction or is it the O2
sensor? Am I supposed to get a "check engine" if O2 sensor is faulty?

Is the "maintenance required " supposed to be gone after the oil
change? Do you suggest oil change again with 5W20?

Please let me know your thoughts.

Thanks in Advance,
Victor

Re: CivicLX -2003 auto 68K - Sluggish pickup in cold start condition - diagonosis needed
 

<victorcivic2003@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:93decb09-81f2-4c00-be68-f22a755a9cf5@w35g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
> Hi Guys,
>
> Happy thanksgiving to you all!! I was browsing through the net for my
> issue and found this group. So I thought I'll ask the group's advice
> before I go to the St(d)ealer!!
>
> I live in Chicago suburbs. I have a 2003 civic LX auto with
> 68000Miles. During these cold days (20 to 35 F), the car is sluggish
> in pick up when the engine is cold. It is as if I have a 500 Lb load
> on the car. The gears shift at higher rpms, but there are not issues
> with gear shift.
>
> Once the car is warmed up, the pickup is fine and acceleration is
> normal.
>
> But I notice the vibration level is little more. Milage dropped a
> little (from 32.5 to 31.5) after the service and I assume that is due
> the the lower temperatures. Now I'm about to fill the tank again and
> I'll probably get ~28mpg. (300miles for 11 gal of regular BP gas).
>
> History of the car:
> I Bought the car in Aug-08.
> The previous user is an ASME certified mechanic
> The car has a provision for a hitch to mount (This is to let you guys
> know that the car may be used for towing)
> Previous oil is 10W30 Valvoline durablend
> Driven about 1000 mi/ month so far
> I'm a very smooth driver; no rapid accelerations, no violent braking;
> no racing in the stop lights with other cars.
> Always driven by me only. No passengers in the car.
> I drive 28 miles per day in mostly city roads; no freeway drive.
> After 66000 Miles, "maintenance required" lamp is on and is still on.
> But the check engine light is off.
>
>
> About 1000 miles ago I changed oil at Walmart ( I supplied the 5W30
> valvoline durablend oil and they did the change. however I did not
> supply the oil filter with the oil. I assumed that they replaced the
> filter and charged me. I do not have the service receipt with me now).
> However, Honda manual recommends 5W20 oil.
>
> I suspect that the oil filter has not been replaced and the oil
> bypasses the filter and eating the bearings and cylinders resulting in
> higher blow-by and loss of compression resulting in power loss. Can
> this be true? Is there any indication to the driver that oil
> constantly bypass the filter like check engine lamp?
>
> Or is it something to do with the tranny oil (I donno what oil is in
> there!) or the throttle position sensor malfunction or is it the O2
> sensor? Am I supposed to get a "check engine" if O2 sensor is faulty?
>
> Is the "maintenance required " supposed to be gone after the oil
> change? Do you suggest oil change again with 5W20?
>
> Please let me know your thoughts.
>
> Thanks in Advance,
> Victor
>
>
You definitely have something going on with the engine when cold. The high
shift points are a consequence of having to depress the accelerator more
than expected to get the power you need, and will undoubtedly go away when
the engine is working up to snuff. The "maintenance required" light needs to
be manually reset; the Civic experts here can help you with that.

The two general areas of common trouble are fuel and ignition. Do the
simple, inexpensive and obvious things first. If you haven't been using
gasoline blended with alcohol (is there still such a place?) adding a bottle
of "dri-gas" to the tank is good. If you haven't been using top tier
gasoline brands regularly
(http://autorepair.about.com/od/generalinfo/a/110305.htm) add a bottle of
injector cleaner to the tank. If the ignition parts (distributor cap and
rotor, spark plugs and wires) are original it's time to replace them. Use
only OEM for all those parts except the plugs (OEM or NGK brand are okay) -
you don't need to learn how important that is the hard way. DO NOT crank the
engine without the spark from the coil having a place to go (like the
plugs) - the coil may not survive.

You mention vibration, which can be from a cylinder not firing well. That
suggests a fuel injector, spark, or possibly a sticking valve (but those
aren't common in Hondas.) I'm not too concerned about the oil filter. My top
suspects are the distributor cap or the plugs, but that is mainly a guess.

Mike

Re: CivicLX -2003 auto 68K - Sluggish pickup in cold start condition - diagonosis needed
 

Bottom line here is what I would do:

--Go to Autozone and have them read the engine computer for
any stored codes. Report back.
--Change out coolant using a reputable shop. Use Honda OEM
coolant only. Make sure the coolant is topped off in the
reservoir.
--Change out auto tranny fluid using Honda OEM fluid only.

Then I would be looking at checking the idle RPM, the EACV
and the fast idle valve pictured at
http://www.bkhondaparts.com/billkay/...o=%7C013%7C017

More detailed responses to your other queries follow.

<victorcivic2003@gmail.com> wrote
> I live in Chicago suburbs. I have a 2003 civic LX auto
> with
> 68000Miles. During these cold days (20 to 35 F), the car
> is sluggish
> in pick up when the engine is cold. It is as if I have a
> 500 Lb load
> on the car. The gears shift at higher rpms, but there are
> not issues
> with gear shift.
>
> Once the car is warmed up, the pickup is fine and
> acceleration is
> normal.
>
> But I notice the vibration level is little more. Milage
> dropped a
> little (from 32.5 to 31.5) after the service and I assume
> that is due
> the the lower temperatures. Now I'm about to fill the tank
> again and
> I'll probably get ~28mpg. (300miles for 11 gal of regular
> BP gas).
>
> History of the car:
> I Bought the car in Aug-08.
> The previous user is an ASME certified mechanic
> The car has a provision for a hitch to mount (This is to
> let you guys
> know that the car may be used for towing)
> Previous oil is 10W30 Valvoline durablend
> Driven about 1000 mi/ month so far
> I'm a very smooth driver; no rapid accelerations, no
> violent braking;
> no racing in the stop lights with other cars.
> Always driven by me only. No passengers in the car.
> I drive 28 miles per day in mostly city roads; no freeway
> drive.
> After 66000 Miles, "maintenance required" lamp is on and
> is still on.
> But the check engine light is off.
>
>
> About 1000 miles ago I changed oil at Walmart ( I supplied
> the 5W30
> valvoline durablend oil and they did the change. however I
> did not
> supply the oil filter with the oil. I assumed that they
> replaced the
> filter and charged me. I do not have the service receipt
> with me now).
> However, Honda manual recommends 5W20 oil. ... Do you
> suggest oil change again with 5W20?

True regarding what the owner's manual says. My
understanding is Honda recommends 5W-20 oil to improve
overall fuel mileage for its fleet, and so conform with
federal fuel economy requirements. It is still okay to use
5W-30, and in fact Honda is not allowed to void any warranty
on the car if a person does use the 30 weight, despite what
the owner's manual says. See
http://motoroilinfo.com/ford-honda-5w-20-oil.htm

But 5W-30 is a heavier viscosity than the 20. For Chicago
winters, I would have the 20 weight. On the third hand,
could the 30 weight oil be contributing to this
sluggishness? A tiny bit not likely to be noticeable around
25 degrees F.

> I suspect that the oil filter has not been replaced and
> the oil
> bypasses the filter and eating the bearings and cylinders
> resulting in
> higher blow-by and loss of compression resulting in power
> loss. Can
> this be true? Is there any indication to the driver that
> oil
> constantly bypass the filter like check engine lamp?

I do not know how much you work with cars, but the above
sounds like overanalysis by a relative layperson. It's a
nice layperson's theory but highly unlikely. And no, there
is no such indication.

> Or is it something to do with the tranny oil (I donno what
> oil is in
> there!)

Honda automatic trannies circa 2003 are known to have
problems unless one uses Honda's OEM tranny fluid. I would
change this out, if only for peace of mind on such an
expensive part (the tranny).

> or the throttle position sensor malfunction or is it the
> O2
> sensor? Am I supposed to get a "check engine" if O2 sensor
> is faulty?

On a 2003 Civic, yes, you should get a CEL if the O2 sensor
is faulty. But unless this car has been abused, I do not
expect its O2 sensor to fail at only 68k miles.

Furthermore, the engine control computer ignores signals
from the O2 sensor until after warmup.

> Is the "maintenance required " supposed to be gone after
> the oil
> change?

Do you have an owner's manual? If so, look up the
maintenance required light in the index in the back. You
will find instructions on how to reset it. Walmart did not
do it because it is not their yob (sic). Walmart, Jiffy Lube
et al. do not deal with this much specialization. If you do
not have the owner's manual, then go to site
https://techinfo.honda.com/rjanisis/logon.asp. On the left,
click on "Owner's Manuals." Follow the pointers. Once you
arrive at the pdf file, it may appear that only one page has
come up. In fact, page numbers that are highlighted within
the pdf file are links on which you can click to take you to
the page. Also, in the upper right hand corner of any white
page look for an arrow. Click the right arrow to get to the
next page.

Re: CivicLX -2003 auto 68K - Sluggish pickup in cold start condition- diagonosis needed
 

Elle wrote:
> Bottom line here is what I would do:
>
> --Go to Autozone and have them read the engine computer for
> any stored codes. Report back.
> --Change out coolant using a reputable shop. Use Honda OEM
> coolant only. Make sure the coolant is topped off in the
> reservoir.
> --Change out auto tranny fluid using Honda OEM fluid only.
>
> Then I would be looking at checking the idle RPM, the EACV
> and the fast idle valve pictured at
> http://www.bkhondaparts.com/billkay/...o=%7C013%7C017
>
> More detailed responses to your other queries follow.
>



While a coolant and transmission fluid change are rarely a bad idea, I
really doubt either of those have anything to do with the problem here.

I've seen issues like this caused by a bad fuel pressure regulator, a
bad coolant temperature sensor can cause similar effects as well. As
others have suggested, distributor cap, rotor, wires, and plugs are also
worth looking into, but my first thought is that it's running a bit lean
when cold, causing a lack of power, which as someone else said, will
also increase the shift points.

Re: CivicLX -2003 auto 68K - Sluggish pickup in cold start condition - diagonosis needed
 

"James Sweet" <jamessweet1@trashmail.net> wrote
> Elle wrote:
>> Bottom line here is what I would do:
>>
>> --Go to Autozone and have them read the engine computer
>> for any stored codes. Report back.
>> --Change out coolant using a reputable shop. Use Honda
>> OEM coolant only. Make sure the coolant is topped off in
>> the reservoir.
>> --Change out auto tranny fluid using Honda OEM fluid
>> only.
>>
>> Then I would be looking at checking the idle RPM, the
>> EACV and the fast idle valve pictured at
>> http://www.bkhondaparts.com/billkay/...o=%7C013%7C017
>>
>> More detailed responses to your other queries follow.
>>
>
>
>
> While a coolant and transmission fluid change are rarely a
> bad idea, I really doubt either of those have anything to
> do with the problem here.

I had in mind in particular the fact that so many engine
sensors depend on proper coolant cover.

There are too many reports of tranny problems in newer
Hondas for me to say put off getting OEM tranny fluid. Plus
it may be a factor in this case.

> I've seen issues like this caused by a bad fuel pressure
> regulator,

Many causes are possible. The question is what is most
likely based on this model's record. A bad fuel pressure
regulator is rare on an Accord so young in miles and years.

> a bad coolant temperature sensor can cause similar effects
> as well. As others have suggested, distributor cap, rotor,
> wires, and plugs are also worth looking into,

Since the car is running fine once it is warmed up, these
ignition parts would not be my first candidates for the
cause.

OTOH, if the OP has no idea how old these parts are, or if
they are not OEM, he should change them out anyway. OEM
ignition parts pay for themselves in longevity and
minimizing wear and tear on other parts and will improve mpg
in general.

> but my first thought is that it's running a bit lean when
> cold, causing a lack of power, which as someone else said,
> will also increase the shift points.

Re: CivicLX -2003 auto 68K - Sluggish pickup in cold start condition - diagonosis needed
 

"Elle" <honda.lioness@gmail.com> wrote
> A bad fuel pressure regulator is rare on an Accord so
> young in miles and years.

Post-o. I meant any Honda so young.

Re: CivicLX -2003 auto 68K - Sluggish pickup in cold start condition- diagonosis needed
 

On Nov 30, 4:16 pm, James Sweet <jamesswe...@trashmail.net> wrote:
> Elle wrote:
> > Bottom line here is what I would do:
>
> > --Go to Autozone and have them read the engine computer for
> > any stored codes. Report back.
> > --Change out coolant using a reputable shop. Use Honda OEM
> > coolant only. Make sure the coolant is topped off in the
> > reservoir.
> > --Change out auto tranny fluid using Honda OEM fluid only.
>
> > Then I would be looking at checking the idle RPM, the EACV
> > and the fast idle valve pictured at
> >http://www.bkhondaparts.com/billkay/...catcgry1=CIVIC....
>
> > More detailed responses to your other queries follow.
>
> While a coolant and transmission fluid change are rarely a bad idea, I
> really doubt either of those have anything to do with the problem here.
>
> I've seen issues like this caused by a bad fuel pressure regulator, a
> bad coolant temperature sensor can cause similar effects as well. As
> others have suggested, distributor cap, rotor, wires, and plugs are also
> worth looking into, but my first thought is that it's running a bit lean
> when cold, causing a lack of power, which as someone else said, will
> also increase the shift points.

Does an '03 Civic even have a distributor cap, rotor and wires? I
would have thought that it would be individual coils by this point.
My '00 TL was. At 68k miles, the plugs are just slightly past half
their prescribed life.

Since it only misbehaves when cold, I would be looking at the set up
that operates before the ECM takes over once the engine is warm. I'll
bet you find something has been "tuned" that should not have been
touched.