Cost of a break job?
09-06-2008, 11:55 AM
#1
Guest
Posts: n/a
Cost of a break job?
I recently had a break job done. I was charged around $475 for a
front & rear break job, but no new parts were installed. They
"machined the existing warped and rusted rotors" and "cleaned the
existing break pads".
Does that seem like a reasonable price for a job that doesn't require
any new parts? Just looking for opinions.
Thanks,
J.
front & rear break job, but no new parts were installed. They
"machined the existing warped and rusted rotors" and "cleaned the
existing break pads".
Does that seem like a reasonable price for a job that doesn't require
any new parts? Just looking for opinions.
Thanks,
J.
09-06-2008, 12:19 PM
#3
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Cost of a break job?
JayN wrote:
> I recently had a break job done. I was charged around $475 for a
> front & rear break job, but no new parts were installed. They
> "machined the existing warped and rusted rotors" and "cleaned the
> existing break pads".
>
> Does that seem like a reasonable price for a job that doesn't require
> any new parts? Just looking for opinions.
>
> Thanks,
>
> J.
what's a "break job"? did you break your brakes???
> I recently had a break job done. I was charged around $475 for a
> front & rear break job, but no new parts were installed. They
> "machined the existing warped and rusted rotors" and "cleaned the
> existing break pads".
>
> Does that seem like a reasonable price for a job that doesn't require
> any new parts? Just looking for opinions.
>
> Thanks,
>
> J.
what's a "break job"? did you break your brakes???
09-06-2008, 01:10 PM
#5
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Cost of a break job?
JayN <JReality@hotmail.com> wrote in news:c06915a8-3dff-482c-82fe-
9dc9eb03adcd@f63g2000hsf.googlegroups.com:
> I recently had a break job done. I was charged around $475 for a
> front & rear break job, but no new parts were installed. They
> "machined the existing warped and rusted rotors" and "cleaned the
> existing break pads".
>
> Does that seem like a reasonable price for a job that doesn't require
> any new parts? Just looking for opinions.
>
It does, yes. They've probably charged you for four hours of labor (one per
wheel), which is reasonable when machining is involved.
And it's spelled "brake", not "break".
--
Tegger
The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
9dc9eb03adcd@f63g2000hsf.googlegroups.com:
> I recently had a break job done. I was charged around $475 for a
> front & rear break job, but no new parts were installed. They
> "machined the existing warped and rusted rotors" and "cleaned the
> existing break pads".
>
> Does that seem like a reasonable price for a job that doesn't require
> any new parts? Just looking for opinions.
>
It does, yes. They've probably charged you for four hours of labor (one per
wheel), which is reasonable when machining is involved.
And it's spelled "brake", not "break".
--
Tegger
The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
09-06-2008, 04:41 PM
#6
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Cost of a break job?
On Sat, 6 Sep 2008 08:55:29 -0700 (PDT), JayN <JReality@hotmail.com>
wrote:
>I recently had a break job done. I was charged around $475 for a
>front & rear break job, but no new parts were installed. They
>"machined the existing warped and rusted rotors" and "cleaned the
>existing break pads".
>
>Does that seem like a reasonable price for a job that doesn't require
>any new parts? Just looking for opinions.
Other people have answered your question, but I cannot understand why
they did not go ahead and replace the pads. They don't cost much and
it seems logical to throw some new ones on while the rotors or off
anyway.. This would add only a small amount of time to the overall
labor cost.
Elliot Richmond
Itinerant astronomy teacher
wrote:
>I recently had a break job done. I was charged around $475 for a
>front & rear break job, but no new parts were installed. They
>"machined the existing warped and rusted rotors" and "cleaned the
>existing break pads".
>
>Does that seem like a reasonable price for a job that doesn't require
>any new parts? Just looking for opinions.
Other people have answered your question, but I cannot understand why
they did not go ahead and replace the pads. They don't cost much and
it seems logical to throw some new ones on while the rotors or off
anyway.. This would add only a small amount of time to the overall
labor cost.
Elliot Richmond
Itinerant astronomy teacher
09-06-2008, 04:48 PM
#8
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Cost of a break job?
Elliot Richmond wrote:
> On Sat, 6 Sep 2008 08:55:29 -0700 (PDT), JayN <JReality@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I recently had a break job done. I was charged around $475 for a
>> front & rear break job, but no new parts were installed. They
>> "machined the existing warped and rusted rotors" and "cleaned the
>> existing break pads".
>>
>> Does that seem like a reasonable price for a job that doesn't require
>> any new parts? Just looking for opinions.
>
> Other people have answered your question, but I cannot understand why
> they did not go ahead and replace the pads. They don't cost much and
> it seems logical to throw some new ones on while the rotors or off
> anyway.. This would add only a small amount of time to the overall
> labor cost.
almost certainly because they were in great shape, but the op was
experiencing brake shuddering. fact is, most of the time, this is
solved with a little antiseize and a torque wrench, not skimming the
disks. disk skimming is a practice thrown at pretty much any
mis-diagnosed brake problem.
> On Sat, 6 Sep 2008 08:55:29 -0700 (PDT), JayN <JReality@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I recently had a break job done. I was charged around $475 for a
>> front & rear break job, but no new parts were installed. They
>> "machined the existing warped and rusted rotors" and "cleaned the
>> existing break pads".
>>
>> Does that seem like a reasonable price for a job that doesn't require
>> any new parts? Just looking for opinions.
>
> Other people have answered your question, but I cannot understand why
> they did not go ahead and replace the pads. They don't cost much and
> it seems logical to throw some new ones on while the rotors or off
> anyway.. This would add only a small amount of time to the overall
> labor cost.
almost certainly because they were in great shape, but the op was
experiencing brake shuddering. fact is, most of the time, this is
solved with a little antiseize and a torque wrench, not skimming the
disks. disk skimming is a practice thrown at pretty much any
mis-diagnosed brake problem.
09-06-2008, 04:48 PM
#9
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Cost of a break job?
They said that because the car only has 19500 miles on it, the pads
weren't that worn.
> Other people have answered your question, but I cannot understand why
> they did not go ahead and replace the pads. They don't cost much and
> it seems logical to throw some new ones on while the rotors or off
> anyway.. This would add only a small amount of time to the overall
> labor cost.
>
> Elliot Richmond
> Itinerant astronomy teacher
weren't that worn.
> Other people have answered your question, but I cannot understand why
> they did not go ahead and replace the pads. They don't cost much and
> it seems logical to throw some new ones on while the rotors or off
> anyway.. This would add only a small amount of time to the overall
> labor cost.
>
> Elliot Richmond
> Itinerant astronomy teacher
09-06-2008, 07:01 PM
#10
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Cost of a break job?
JayN <JReality@hotmail.com> wrote in news:1089bb29-b6f6-4e07-baf2-
328f49ef3c40@73g2000hsx.googlegroups.com:
> They said that because the car only has 19500 miles on it, the pads
> weren't that worn.
That explains your rust. I'll bet your rotors weren't warped at all, but
instead had patchy glaze and rust, which causes exactly the same symptoms
as warped rotors. Machining is the only way to revive rotors with such
problems.
You need to get the old girl out for a good long highway drive at least
once a week. This will help scrape off the rotor rust, as well as having
other benefits. Cars are like people: they improve with exercise.
--
Tegger
The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
328f49ef3c40@73g2000hsx.googlegroups.com:
> They said that because the car only has 19500 miles on it, the pads
> weren't that worn.
That explains your rust. I'll bet your rotors weren't warped at all, but
instead had patchy glaze and rust, which causes exactly the same symptoms
as warped rotors. Machining is the only way to revive rotors with such
problems.
You need to get the old girl out for a good long highway drive at least
once a week. This will help scrape off the rotor rust, as well as having
other benefits. Cars are like people: they improve with exercise.
--
Tegger
The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
09-06-2008, 08:09 PM
#11
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Cost of a break job?
The steering wheel was vibrating when braking at high speeds,
especially 65 and higher.
I was reading some articles today that suggest that, in order to
diagnose the root cause behind the problem, and to prevent the
vibrations from re-occurring again, the service tech should be
measuring the alignment of the other components. In other words,
checking if there is any "lateral runout" which, if I am understanding
correctly, means the rotor, when installed, could have a very small
amount wobble due to imperfections in other components, and may not be
spinning parallel enough to the brake pad, etc. The idea is that if
there is too much lateral runout, then the rotor and brake pad will
wear unevenly and vibrations will increase over time even if they
aren't noticeable immediately after the rotor is machined and
reinstalled. The articles also suggest that rotors don't actually
warp. The surface can wear unevenly though depending on the other
components.
I have no idea whether or not the service department looked into the
problem to that extent, so I guess I'll just have to hope it doesn't
happen again in near future. Then again, the rotors did have rust on
them, so maybe my particular problem isn't as complicated as some of
those articles make it out to be. I think I saw some scratches on
the rotors before the brake job was done (don't know how they got
there). Anyway, my car only has 19500 miles on it. Is it unusual to
need a brake job with such low mileage?
> almost certainly because they were in great shape, but the op was
> experiencing brake shuddering. fact is, most of the time, this is
> solved with a little antiseize and a torque wrench, not skimming the
> disks. disk skimming is a practice thrown at pretty much any
> mis-diagnosed brake problem.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
especially 65 and higher.
I was reading some articles today that suggest that, in order to
diagnose the root cause behind the problem, and to prevent the
vibrations from re-occurring again, the service tech should be
measuring the alignment of the other components. In other words,
checking if there is any "lateral runout" which, if I am understanding
correctly, means the rotor, when installed, could have a very small
amount wobble due to imperfections in other components, and may not be
spinning parallel enough to the brake pad, etc. The idea is that if
there is too much lateral runout, then the rotor and brake pad will
wear unevenly and vibrations will increase over time even if they
aren't noticeable immediately after the rotor is machined and
reinstalled. The articles also suggest that rotors don't actually
warp. The surface can wear unevenly though depending on the other
components.
I have no idea whether or not the service department looked into the
problem to that extent, so I guess I'll just have to hope it doesn't
happen again in near future. Then again, the rotors did have rust on
them, so maybe my particular problem isn't as complicated as some of
those articles make it out to be. I think I saw some scratches on
the rotors before the brake job was done (don't know how they got
there). Anyway, my car only has 19500 miles on it. Is it unusual to
need a brake job with such low mileage?
> almost certainly because they were in great shape, but the op was
> experiencing brake shuddering. fact is, most of the time, this is
> solved with a little antiseize and a torque wrench, not skimming the
> disks. disk skimming is a practice thrown at pretty much any
> mis-diagnosed brake problem.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
09-06-2008, 08:15 PM
#12
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Cost of a break job?
I also think I remember seeing some scratches on the rotors in
addition to the rust. Not understanding how those scratches got
there.
How long do you recommend I drive the car on the highway each week
(round trip)?
Thanks,
Jeff
On Sep 6, 7:01 pm, Tegger <inva...@invalid.inv> wrote:
> JayN <JReal...@hotmail.com> wrote in news:1089bb29-b6f6-4e07-baf2-
> 328f49ef3...@73g2000hsx.googlegroups.com:
>
> > They said that because the car only has 19500 miles on it, the pads
> > weren't that worn.
>
> That explains your rust. I'll bet your rotors weren't warped at all, but
> instead had patchy glaze and rust, which causes exactly the same symptoms
> as warped rotors. Machining is the only way to revive rotors with such
> problems.
>
> You need to get the old girl out for a good long highway drive at least
> once a week. This will help scrape off the rotor rust, as well as having
> other benefits. Cars are like people: they improve with exercise.
>
> --
> Tegger
>
> The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQwww.tegger.com/hondafaq/
addition to the rust. Not understanding how those scratches got
there.
How long do you recommend I drive the car on the highway each week
(round trip)?
Thanks,
Jeff
On Sep 6, 7:01 pm, Tegger <inva...@invalid.inv> wrote:
> JayN <JReal...@hotmail.com> wrote in news:1089bb29-b6f6-4e07-baf2-
> 328f49ef3...@73g2000hsx.googlegroups.com:
>
> > They said that because the car only has 19500 miles on it, the pads
> > weren't that worn.
>
> That explains your rust. I'll bet your rotors weren't warped at all, but
> instead had patchy glaze and rust, which causes exactly the same symptoms
> as warped rotors. Machining is the only way to revive rotors with such
> problems.
>
> You need to get the old girl out for a good long highway drive at least
> once a week. This will help scrape off the rotor rust, as well as having
> other benefits. Cars are like people: they improve with exercise.
>
> --
> Tegger
>
> The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQwww.tegger.com/hondafaq/
09-06-2008, 08:23 PM
#13
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Cost of a break job?
JayN wrote:
> The steering wheel was vibrating when braking at high speeds,
> especially 65 and higher.
>
> I was reading some articles today that suggest that, in order to
> diagnose the root cause behind the problem, and to prevent the
> vibrations from re-occurring again, the service tech should be
> measuring the alignment of the other components. In other words,
> checking if there is any "lateral runout" which, if I am understanding
> correctly, means the rotor, when installed, could have a very small
> amount wobble due to imperfections in other components, and may not be
> spinning parallel enough to the brake pad, etc. The idea is that if
> there is too much lateral runout, then the rotor and brake pad will
> wear unevenly and vibrations will increase over time even if they
> aren't noticeable immediately after the rotor is machined and
> reinstalled. The articles also suggest that rotors don't actually
> warp. The surface can wear unevenly though depending on the other
> components.
>
> I have no idea whether or not the service department looked into the
> problem to that extent, so I guess I'll just have to hope it doesn't
> happen again in near future. Then again, the rotors did have rust on
> them, so maybe my particular problem isn't as complicated as some of
> those articles make it out to be. I think I saw some scratches on
> the rotors before the brake job was done (don't know how they got
> there). Anyway, my car only has 19500 miles on it. Is it unusual to
> need a brake job with such low mileage?
it's frequent for this problem to arise, and it's frequent for it to be
misdiagnosed as it being a brake problem, but the reality is very
different. it's caused by local elastic distortion of the hub. honda
hubs are very light weight, and thus they flex under the lug not torque
if it's uneven. this seats the disk askew, and thus the brakes judder.
the solution is to remove the wheel, clean up the disk/wheel interface,
smear a little antiseize, then torque the wheel on properly, with a
torque wrench, with a two or more stage process. unless you have some
other problem, such as tegger's greasy fingerprints on your disks, this
with solve the "brake" problem on a honda every time.
interestingly, this is why brake shops keep skimming disks - they
remove, clean, skim, get greasy fingers on the interface, then replace,
little realizing that it's the cleaning and replacing that's fixing the
problem, not the skimming.
>
>> almost certainly because they were in great shape, but the op was
>> experiencing brake shuddering. �fact is, most of the time, this is
>> solved with a little antiseize and a torque wrench, not skimming the
>> disks. �disk skimming is a practice thrown at pretty much any
>> mis-diagnosed brake problem.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> The steering wheel was vibrating when braking at high speeds,
> especially 65 and higher.
>
> I was reading some articles today that suggest that, in order to
> diagnose the root cause behind the problem, and to prevent the
> vibrations from re-occurring again, the service tech should be
> measuring the alignment of the other components. In other words,
> checking if there is any "lateral runout" which, if I am understanding
> correctly, means the rotor, when installed, could have a very small
> amount wobble due to imperfections in other components, and may not be
> spinning parallel enough to the brake pad, etc. The idea is that if
> there is too much lateral runout, then the rotor and brake pad will
> wear unevenly and vibrations will increase over time even if they
> aren't noticeable immediately after the rotor is machined and
> reinstalled. The articles also suggest that rotors don't actually
> warp. The surface can wear unevenly though depending on the other
> components.
>
> I have no idea whether or not the service department looked into the
> problem to that extent, so I guess I'll just have to hope it doesn't
> happen again in near future. Then again, the rotors did have rust on
> them, so maybe my particular problem isn't as complicated as some of
> those articles make it out to be. I think I saw some scratches on
> the rotors before the brake job was done (don't know how they got
> there). Anyway, my car only has 19500 miles on it. Is it unusual to
> need a brake job with such low mileage?
it's frequent for this problem to arise, and it's frequent for it to be
misdiagnosed as it being a brake problem, but the reality is very
different. it's caused by local elastic distortion of the hub. honda
hubs are very light weight, and thus they flex under the lug not torque
if it's uneven. this seats the disk askew, and thus the brakes judder.
the solution is to remove the wheel, clean up the disk/wheel interface,
smear a little antiseize, then torque the wheel on properly, with a
torque wrench, with a two or more stage process. unless you have some
other problem, such as tegger's greasy fingerprints on your disks, this
with solve the "brake" problem on a honda every time.
interestingly, this is why brake shops keep skimming disks - they
remove, clean, skim, get greasy fingers on the interface, then replace,
little realizing that it's the cleaning and replacing that's fixing the
problem, not the skimming.
>
>> almost certainly because they were in great shape, but the op was
>> experiencing brake shuddering. �fact is, most of the time, this is
>> solved with a little antiseize and a torque wrench, not skimming the
>> disks. �disk skimming is a practice thrown at pretty much any
>> mis-diagnosed brake problem.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
09-06-2008, 11:13 PM
#14
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Cost of a break job?
Actually, I looked at the rotors again just now, and I'm wondering if
the surface that the brake pads come in contact with is supposed to
look new after being machined? I'd say that none of them look "shiny
as new." The back ones in particular, actually still look rusty on
the surface that the brake pads come in contact with. Call me crazy
and paranoid, but it makes me wonder if: A) they really did anything
to the back ones since the surface is still rusty or B) assuming they
did tell the truth about machining the back ones, would I have been
better off with new rotors if the suface that comes in contact with
the pads is still rust-colored even after being machined?
Speaking of hubs, I notice that that the outer circumference of the
hub, that is visible simply by looking between the installed wheel and
the rotor, has a coating that is peeling off and is getting rusty
underneath. I suppose that is par for the course though.
J.
> it's frequent for this problem to arise, and it's frequent for it to be
> misdiagnosed as it being a brake problem, but the reality is very
> different. it's caused by local elastic distortion of the hub. honda
> hubs are very light weight, and thus they flex under the lug not torque
> if it's uneven. this seats the disk askew, and thus the brakes judder.
>
> the solution is to remove the wheel, clean up the disk/wheel interface,
> smear a little antiseize, then torque the wheel on properly, with a
> torque wrench, with a two or more stage process. unless you have some
> other problem, such as tegger's greasy fingerprints on your disks, this
> with solve the "brake" problem on a honda every time.
>
> interestingly, this is why brake shops keep skimming disks - they
> remove, clean, skim, get greasy fingers on the interface, then replace,
> little realizing that it's the cleaning and replacing that's fixing the
> problem, not the skimming.
>
>
the surface that the brake pads come in contact with is supposed to
look new after being machined? I'd say that none of them look "shiny
as new." The back ones in particular, actually still look rusty on
the surface that the brake pads come in contact with. Call me crazy
and paranoid, but it makes me wonder if: A) they really did anything
to the back ones since the surface is still rusty or B) assuming they
did tell the truth about machining the back ones, would I have been
better off with new rotors if the suface that comes in contact with
the pads is still rust-colored even after being machined?
Speaking of hubs, I notice that that the outer circumference of the
hub, that is visible simply by looking between the installed wheel and
the rotor, has a coating that is peeling off and is getting rusty
underneath. I suppose that is par for the course though.
J.
> it's frequent for this problem to arise, and it's frequent for it to be
> misdiagnosed as it being a brake problem, but the reality is very
> different. it's caused by local elastic distortion of the hub. honda
> hubs are very light weight, and thus they flex under the lug not torque
> if it's uneven. this seats the disk askew, and thus the brakes judder.
>
> the solution is to remove the wheel, clean up the disk/wheel interface,
> smear a little antiseize, then torque the wheel on properly, with a
> torque wrench, with a two or more stage process. unless you have some
> other problem, such as tegger's greasy fingerprints on your disks, this
> with solve the "brake" problem on a honda every time.
>
> interestingly, this is why brake shops keep skimming disks - they
> remove, clean, skim, get greasy fingers on the interface, then replace,
> little realizing that it's the cleaning and replacing that's fixing the
> problem, not the skimming.
>
>
09-06-2008, 11:59 PM
#15
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Cost of a break job?
JayN wrote:
> Actually, I looked at the rotors again just now, and I'm wondering if
> the surface that the brake pads come in contact with is supposed to
> look new after being machined?
only for a few hours. the moment it rains, all that's gone.
>I'd say that none of them look "shiny
> as new." The back ones in particular, actually still look rusty on
> the surface that the brake pads come in contact with. Call me crazy
> and paranoid, but it makes me wonder if: A) they really did anything
> to the back ones since the surface is still rusty or B) assuming they
> did tell the truth about machining the back ones, would I have been
> better off with new rotors if the suface that comes in contact with
> the pads is still rust-colored even after being machined?
if the brake surface is rusty /after/ you've just come back from a
drive, a brake piston is seized and you need to get it fixed asap.
>
> Speaking of hubs, I notice that that the outer circumference of the
> hub, that is visible simply by looking between the installed wheel and
> the rotor, has a coating that is peeling off and is getting rusty
> underneath. I suppose that is par for the course though.
that is actually part of the disk. the hub is under that and you can't
see it with the disk on.
surface rust on the non-braking surface of the disk is fine - as long as
it doesn't prevent the wheel or disk sitting square against the hub.
>
> J.
>
>> it's frequent for this problem to arise, and it's frequent for it to be
>> misdiagnosed as it being a brake problem, but the reality is very
>> different. �it's caused by local elastic distortion of the hub. �honda
>> hubs are very light weight, and thus they flex under the lug not torque
>> if it's uneven. �this seats the disk askew, and thus the brakes judder.
>>
>> the solution is to remove the wheel, clean up the disk/wheel interface,
>> smear a little antiseize, then torque the wheel on properly, with a
>> torque wrench, with a two or more stage process. �unless you have some
>> other problem, such as tegger's greasy fingerprints on your disks, this
>> with solve the "brake" problem on a honda every time.
>>
>> interestingly, this is why brake shops keep skimming disks - they
>> remove, clean, skim, get greasy fingers on the interface, then replace,
>> little realizing that it's the cleaning and replacing that's fixing the
>> problem, not the skimming.
>>
>>
> Actually, I looked at the rotors again just now, and I'm wondering if
> the surface that the brake pads come in contact with is supposed to
> look new after being machined?
only for a few hours. the moment it rains, all that's gone.
>I'd say that none of them look "shiny
> as new." The back ones in particular, actually still look rusty on
> the surface that the brake pads come in contact with. Call me crazy
> and paranoid, but it makes me wonder if: A) they really did anything
> to the back ones since the surface is still rusty or B) assuming they
> did tell the truth about machining the back ones, would I have been
> better off with new rotors if the suface that comes in contact with
> the pads is still rust-colored even after being machined?
if the brake surface is rusty /after/ you've just come back from a
drive, a brake piston is seized and you need to get it fixed asap.
>
> Speaking of hubs, I notice that that the outer circumference of the
> hub, that is visible simply by looking between the installed wheel and
> the rotor, has a coating that is peeling off and is getting rusty
> underneath. I suppose that is par for the course though.
that is actually part of the disk. the hub is under that and you can't
see it with the disk on.
surface rust on the non-braking surface of the disk is fine - as long as
it doesn't prevent the wheel or disk sitting square against the hub.
>
> J.
>
>> it's frequent for this problem to arise, and it's frequent for it to be
>> misdiagnosed as it being a brake problem, but the reality is very
>> different. �it's caused by local elastic distortion of the hub. �honda
>> hubs are very light weight, and thus they flex under the lug not torque
>> if it's uneven. �this seats the disk askew, and thus the brakes judder.
>>
>> the solution is to remove the wheel, clean up the disk/wheel interface,
>> smear a little antiseize, then torque the wheel on properly, with a
>> torque wrench, with a two or more stage process. �unless you have some
>> other problem, such as tegger's greasy fingerprints on your disks, this
>> with solve the "brake" problem on a honda every time.
>>
>> interestingly, this is why brake shops keep skimming disks - they
>> remove, clean, skim, get greasy fingers on the interface, then replace,
>> little realizing that it's the cleaning and replacing that's fixing the
>> problem, not the skimming.
>>
>>