bertbarndoor

Ok, here is my problem. About 17 months ago, I went to Huntclub Honda
in Ottawa, Ontario Canada to get the 50K scheduled maintenance done on
my 2001 Honda Prelude SE. So, they did their things and that was that.
The next day, I decided to put snow tires on my car (all four wheels).
If I'd been smart, I would have just brought them to the dealer and
told them to change them when they had the wheels off checking the
breaks etc, but I was in a rush and didn't have time to organize.

Anyhow, there I am in my driveway the very next day and I start with
the first wheel. I'm using a lug wrench to get the lug nuts off
(duh!?!) and I am finding it close to impossible to get them off. The
first one alone, I am standing on the lug wrench bouncing up and down,
trying to get it to budge. I weigh about 185 pounds. So, there I am,
jumping up and down on the lug wrench and the nut finally starts to
budge. Now, I know coming-off torque is supposed to be greater than
going-on torque, but the next day after they were removed/reinstalled?
And to that extent???!

So then get this.... I pull out a gauged torque wrench which tops out
at 220 foot pounds. I literally am off the scale pulling with the next
lug nut, so that the needle is buried at the end of the scale. So here
I am wailing on the torque wrench and, you're not going to believe
this, the male part of torque stick comes off the bar and stays in the
socket which is still on the lug nut on the rim??!! I flipped it over
(double sided) and tried a few more nuts (I didn't go past 220 foot
pounds this time) just to see and none of them would budge. I then
removed every one of them with the lug wrench, each one of them with me
standing on the wrench, bouncing up and down trying to get them to come
off. It took about an hour and a half.

In the end, I went back to the dealer the next day and told them my
story. They gave me a free oil change and noted on the computer file
that my lug nuts had been over tightened.

I posted this tale of woe to the Usenet and many people responded that
one of the problems I'd have to worry about is warped rotors. Well,
about 6 months after I brought it in, they were doing some more
maintenance and the mechanic said that my rotors were warped and that
they should be changed. As soon as I brought up this whole story and
involved a manager, the story became that the warping wasn't severe
and I could probably get away with not getting it done and that really
the warping was only on the front rotors and if it had been because of
over-torking the lug nuts on all wheels, then all the rotors would have
been warped, not just the front. I didn't have the time or
inclination to fight with them, so I just decided to leave it and fight
the battle later.

Here is my question; I am thinking I need break work done. Do I have
any case to get the rotors partially paid for by the dealership? Any
approaches I should take? Advice? Thanks,

Rob

Dealer over-torked lug nuts - warped rotors now!

Frank

Difficult to say. First off, I am in Ottawa also and this is
common problem for me here. That is why I bought a torque wrench
and I do tire rotation myself. If Camco (my acura dealer) does an
inspection of the brakes, I do remind them of the 80
pound-foot/torque and then check once I am at home, just to make
sure. They have been good, but you never know with these
monkeys...

Here is one possibility. Get your file from Huntclub honda where
it listed your complaints. Get the brakes check elsewhere and if
the rotors are warped, keep them as evidence. Make sure to have
the mechanic explain why they are warped and confirm the cause.
Get an affidavit from this expert. Go back to the dealership with
all this information and ask for them to pay the whole job. If
you do not ask, you will get nothing. At best, what I think is
fair is that they pay for 50% of the job.

Good luck and keep us posted...

F

"bertbarndoor" <bertbarndoor@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1114962319.689441.221270@f14g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com...
> Ok, here is my problem. About 17 months ago, I went to Huntclub
> Honda
> in Ottawa, Ontario Canada to get the 50K scheduled maintenance
> done on
> my 2001 Honda Prelude SE. So, they did their things and that
> was that.
> The next day, I decided to put snow tires on my car (all four
> wheels).
> If I'd been smart, I would have just brought them to the dealer
> and
> told them to change them when they had the wheels off checking
> the
> breaks etc, but I was in a rush and didn't have time to
> organize.
>
> Anyhow, there I am in my driveway the very next day and I start
> with
> the first wheel. I'm using a lug wrench to get the lug nuts
> off
> (duh!?!) and I am finding it close to impossible to get them
> off. The
> first one alone, I am standing on the lug wrench bouncing up
> and down,
> trying to get it to budge. I weigh about 185 pounds. So,
> there I am,
> jumping up and down on the lug wrench and the nut finally
> starts to
> budge. Now, I know coming-off torque is supposed to be greater
> than
> going-on torque, but the next day after they were
> removed/reinstalled?
> And to that extent???!
>
> So then get this.... I pull out a gauged torque wrench which
> tops out
> at 220 foot pounds. I literally am off the scale pulling with
> the next
> lug nut, so that the needle is buried at the end of the scale.
> So here
> I am wailing on the torque wrench and, you're not going to
> believe
> this, the male part of torque stick comes off the bar and stays
> in the
> socket which is still on the lug nut on the rim??!! I flipped
> it over
> (double sided) and tried a few more nuts (I didn't go past 220
> foot
> pounds this time) just to see and none of them would budge. I
> then
> removed every one of them with the lug wrench, each one of them
> with me
> standing on the wrench, bouncing up and down trying to get them
> to come
> off. It took about an hour and a half.
>
> In the end, I went back to the dealer the next day and told
> them my
> story. They gave me a free oil change and noted on the
> computer file
> that my lug nuts had been over tightened.
>
> I posted this tale of woe to the Usenet and many people
> responded that
> one of the problems I'd have to worry about is warped rotors.
> Well,
> about 6 months after I brought it in, they were doing some more
> maintenance and the mechanic said that my rotors were warped
> and that
> they should be changed. As soon as I brought up this whole
> story and
> involved a manager, the story became that the warping wasn't
> severe
> and I could probably get away with not getting it done and that
> really
> the warping was only on the front rotors and if it had been
> because of
> over-torking the lug nuts on all wheels, then all the rotors
> would have
> been warped, not just the front. I didn't have the time or
> inclination to fight with them, so I just decided to leave it
> and fight
> the battle later.
>
> Here is my question; I am thinking I need break work done. Do
> I have
> any case to get the rotors partially paid for by the
> dealership? Any
> approaches I should take? Advice? Thanks,
>
> Rob
>
> Dealer over-torked lug nuts - warped rotors now!
>

Eric

bertbarndoor wrote:
>
> Ok, here is my problem. About 17 months ago, I went to Huntclub Honda
> in Ottawa, Ontario Canada to get the 50K scheduled maintenance done on
> my 2001 Honda Prelude SE. So, they did their things and that was that.
> The next day, I decided to put snow tires on my car (all four wheels).
> If I'd been smart, I would have just brought them to the dealer and
> told them to change them when they had the wheels off checking the
> breaks etc, but I was in a rush and didn't have time to organize.
>
> Anyhow, there I am in my driveway the very next day and I start with
> the first wheel. I'm using a lug wrench to get the lug nuts off
> (duh!?!) and I am finding it close to impossible to get them off. The
> first one alone, I am standing on the lug wrench bouncing up and down,
> trying to get it to budge. I weigh about 185 pounds. So, there I am,
> jumping up and down on the lug wrench and the nut finally starts to
> budge. Now, I know coming-off torque is supposed to be greater than
> going-on torque, but the next day after they were removed/reinstalled?
> And to that extent???!
>
> So then get this.... I pull out a gauged torque wrench which tops out
> at 220 foot pounds. I literally am off the scale pulling with the next
> lug nut, so that the needle is buried at the end of the scale. So here
> I am wailing on the torque wrench and, you're not going to believe
> this, the male part of torque stick comes off the bar and stays in the
> socket which is still on the lug nut on the rim??!! I flipped it over
> (double sided) and tried a few more nuts (I didn't go past 220 foot
> pounds this time) just to see and none of them would budge. I then
> removed every one of them with the lug wrench, each one of them with me
> standing on the wrench, bouncing up and down trying to get them to come
> off. It took about an hour and a half.
>
> In the end, I went back to the dealer the next day and told them my
> story. They gave me a free oil change and noted on the computer file
> that my lug nuts had been over tightened.
>
> I posted this tale of woe to the Usenet and many people responded that
> one of the problems I'd have to worry about is warped rotors. Well,
> about 6 months after I brought it in, they were doing some more
> maintenance and the mechanic said that my rotors were warped and that
> they should be changed. As soon as I brought up this whole story and
> involved a manager, the story became that the warping wasn't severe
> and I could probably get away with not getting it done and that really
> the warping was only on the front rotors and if it had been because of
> over-torking the lug nuts on all wheels, then all the rotors would have
> been warped, not just the front.

The front brakes heat up more than the rear and are thus somewhat more
sensitive to warping.

Do you feel any pulsation in the brake pedal? If not, then your rotors are
probably ok for time being. Still, it might be good to get them inspected
and have the tech measure and report the actual runout. If the rotors
aren't warped, then you now have two reasons to find a new mechanic.

Eric