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design flaw : F20A 's air intake gets useless heat from radiator*coolant (part 2)
Intake manifold has asbestos gasket to insulate heat ( from cylinder
head ), but the 9 nuts which lock manifold onto cylinder head have no asbestos washer, so heat enters manifold via [i] these 9 nuts [ii] the exhaust gas channeled to EGR valve [iii] * channeled through manifold .[iv] manifold chamber via EAC & Fast Idle valves. http://www.autozone.com/images/cds/g...3d800cf4a6.gif Designer seemingly assumed ambient air is never >20ºC ( can be seen from exhaust manifold's front & rear covers http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/...13sm40_d08.gif - meant to keep exhaust gas hot, unnecessary & bad in warmer climate ), & users will use * to heat their seats' spaces, so * will not be >40ºC. To further cool air intake, I use polystyrene & rubber washers to insulate chamber from these 2 valves, glued 3 heatsinks onto chamber, fitted copper wires & hoses ( with water & surfactant ) onto chamber & throttle body. Then air intake is cooler : warm- starts & hill climbing are easier, in even 27ºC ambient air, let alone in hotter weather. These 2 valves' insulations also make Fast Idle valve heat up & reduce idling rpm sooner, & save petrol during idling / coasting. I could not post here a photo of my F20A's chamber & valves, looks like this NG bans any photo. |
Re: design flaw : F20A 's air intake gets useless heat from radiator*coolant (part 2)
"TE Chea" <4ws@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:45263f71$1_1@news.tm.net.my... > I could not post here a photo of my F20A's chamber & valves, looks > like this NG bans any photo. > > True - no binaries here (also makes it safer; no malware). People upload photos to web sites and just provide links to those. I think there are ways you can get space to post photos without spending money, but I don't know how. Maybe somebody can educate me. Mike |
Re: design flaw : F20A 's air intake gets useless heat from radiator*coolant (part 2)
"TE Chea" <4ws@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:45263f71$1_1@news.tm.net.my... > I could not post here a photo of my F20A's chamber & valves, looks > like this NG bans any photo. > > True - no binaries here (also makes it safer; no malware). People upload photos to web sites and just provide links to those. I think there are ways you can get space to post photos without spending money, but I don't know how. Maybe somebody can educate me. Mike |
Re: design flaw : F20A 's air intake gets useless heat from radiator*coolant (part 2)
"TE Chea" <4ws@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:45263f71$1_1@news.tm.net.my... > I could not post here a photo of my F20A's chamber & valves, looks > like this NG bans any photo. > > True - no binaries here (also makes it safer; no malware). People upload photos to web sites and just provide links to those. I think there are ways you can get space to post photos without spending money, but I don't know how. Maybe somebody can educate me. Mike |
Re: design flaw : F20A 's air intake gets useless heat from radiator*coolant (part 2)
On Fri, 6 Oct 2006 13:24:46 +0800, "TE Chea" <4ws@gmail.com> wrote:
>Intake manifold has asbestos gasket to insulate heat ( from cylinder >head ), but the 9 nuts which lock manifold onto cylinder head have >no asbestos washer, so heat enters manifold via [i] these 9 nuts [ii] >the exhaust gas channeled to EGR valve [iii] * channeled through >manifold .[iv] manifold chamber via EAC & Fast Idle valves. >http://www.autozone.com/images/cds/g...3d800cf4a6.gif i. Yes, there are nuts holding the manifold to the head. This is not a defect. If you put soft, crumbly asbestos washers on it, that will be a defect. ii. Yes, the Exhaust Gas Recirculating valve does tend to let hot gases into the manifold. This is not a defect. iii. what is channeled through the manifold besides air? iv. It is hard to say whether the small amount of heat transferred from the coolant to these valves is offset by radiant cooling from the increased surface area provided by the valve body. What is certain is that any effect would be so trivial that only you would consider it. >Designer seemingly assumed ambient air is never >20ºC ( can be >seen from exhaust manifold's front & rear covers >http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/...13sm40_d08.gif By golly the exhaust shield actually says, "Not for use in ambient temperatures above 20C." No wait, let me put my glasses on. Oops, I'm sorry, my bad. It actually says "HOT." It also has a hand icon and an X so I guess the X is where you are supposed to put your hand. Please try it Cheah and see if you can find another defect. >- meant to keep exhaust gas hot, unnecessary & bad in warmer >climate ), & users will use * to heat their seats' spaces, so * will >not be >40ºC. >To further cool air intake, I use polystyrene & rubber washers to >insulate chamber from these 2 valves, glued 3 heatsinks onto >chamber, fitted copper wires & hoses ( with water & surfactant ) >onto chamber & throttle body. Then air intake is cooler : warm- >starts & hill climbing are easier, in even 27ºC ambient air, let >alone in hotter weather. >These 2 valves' insulations also make Fast Idle valve heat up & >reduce idling rpm sooner, & save petrol during idling / coasting. >I could not post here a photo of my F20A's chamber & valves, looks >like this NG bans any photo. Seriously Cheah, It is pretty obvious you could get more power out of the engine with a cold air intake. It might also ice up if the ambient gets cool and damp. It also might emit more pollution, which is something you can blissfully ignore, unless you get caught. (The fine could be $50,000 in the US.) For these reasons, Honda like all other manufacturers must control (i.e. raise) the intake air temperature. Since you are already feeding warmed air into the intake, there is no need to make heroic efforts to cool the intake temperature. Honda engines work superbly under wide conditions virtually all of the time. If yours has a problem, that is unfortunate. If it needs fixing, I would start by restoring it to its original condition and removing your modifications. |
Re: design flaw : F20A 's air intake gets useless heat from radiator*coolant (part 2)
On Fri, 6 Oct 2006 13:24:46 +0800, "TE Chea" <4ws@gmail.com> wrote:
>Intake manifold has asbestos gasket to insulate heat ( from cylinder >head ), but the 9 nuts which lock manifold onto cylinder head have >no asbestos washer, so heat enters manifold via [i] these 9 nuts [ii] >the exhaust gas channeled to EGR valve [iii] * channeled through >manifold .[iv] manifold chamber via EAC & Fast Idle valves. >http://www.autozone.com/images/cds/g...3d800cf4a6.gif i. Yes, there are nuts holding the manifold to the head. This is not a defect. If you put soft, crumbly asbestos washers on it, that will be a defect. ii. Yes, the Exhaust Gas Recirculating valve does tend to let hot gases into the manifold. This is not a defect. iii. what is channeled through the manifold besides air? iv. It is hard to say whether the small amount of heat transferred from the coolant to these valves is offset by radiant cooling from the increased surface area provided by the valve body. What is certain is that any effect would be so trivial that only you would consider it. >Designer seemingly assumed ambient air is never >20ºC ( can be >seen from exhaust manifold's front & rear covers >http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/...13sm40_d08.gif By golly the exhaust shield actually says, "Not for use in ambient temperatures above 20C." No wait, let me put my glasses on. Oops, I'm sorry, my bad. It actually says "HOT." It also has a hand icon and an X so I guess the X is where you are supposed to put your hand. Please try it Cheah and see if you can find another defect. >- meant to keep exhaust gas hot, unnecessary & bad in warmer >climate ), & users will use * to heat their seats' spaces, so * will >not be >40ºC. >To further cool air intake, I use polystyrene & rubber washers to >insulate chamber from these 2 valves, glued 3 heatsinks onto >chamber, fitted copper wires & hoses ( with water & surfactant ) >onto chamber & throttle body. Then air intake is cooler : warm- >starts & hill climbing are easier, in even 27ºC ambient air, let >alone in hotter weather. >These 2 valves' insulations also make Fast Idle valve heat up & >reduce idling rpm sooner, & save petrol during idling / coasting. >I could not post here a photo of my F20A's chamber & valves, looks >like this NG bans any photo. Seriously Cheah, It is pretty obvious you could get more power out of the engine with a cold air intake. It might also ice up if the ambient gets cool and damp. It also might emit more pollution, which is something you can blissfully ignore, unless you get caught. (The fine could be $50,000 in the US.) For these reasons, Honda like all other manufacturers must control (i.e. raise) the intake air temperature. Since you are already feeding warmed air into the intake, there is no need to make heroic efforts to cool the intake temperature. Honda engines work superbly under wide conditions virtually all of the time. If yours has a problem, that is unfortunate. If it needs fixing, I would start by restoring it to its original condition and removing your modifications. |
Re: design flaw : F20A 's air intake gets useless heat from radiator*coolant (part 2)
On Fri, 6 Oct 2006 13:24:46 +0800, "TE Chea" <4ws@gmail.com> wrote:
>Intake manifold has asbestos gasket to insulate heat ( from cylinder >head ), but the 9 nuts which lock manifold onto cylinder head have >no asbestos washer, so heat enters manifold via [i] these 9 nuts [ii] >the exhaust gas channeled to EGR valve [iii] * channeled through >manifold .[iv] manifold chamber via EAC & Fast Idle valves. >http://www.autozone.com/images/cds/g...3d800cf4a6.gif i. Yes, there are nuts holding the manifold to the head. This is not a defect. If you put soft, crumbly asbestos washers on it, that will be a defect. ii. Yes, the Exhaust Gas Recirculating valve does tend to let hot gases into the manifold. This is not a defect. iii. what is channeled through the manifold besides air? iv. It is hard to say whether the small amount of heat transferred from the coolant to these valves is offset by radiant cooling from the increased surface area provided by the valve body. What is certain is that any effect would be so trivial that only you would consider it. >Designer seemingly assumed ambient air is never >20ºC ( can be >seen from exhaust manifold's front & rear covers >http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/...13sm40_d08.gif By golly the exhaust shield actually says, "Not for use in ambient temperatures above 20C." No wait, let me put my glasses on. Oops, I'm sorry, my bad. It actually says "HOT." It also has a hand icon and an X so I guess the X is where you are supposed to put your hand. Please try it Cheah and see if you can find another defect. >- meant to keep exhaust gas hot, unnecessary & bad in warmer >climate ), & users will use * to heat their seats' spaces, so * will >not be >40ºC. >To further cool air intake, I use polystyrene & rubber washers to >insulate chamber from these 2 valves, glued 3 heatsinks onto >chamber, fitted copper wires & hoses ( with water & surfactant ) >onto chamber & throttle body. Then air intake is cooler : warm- >starts & hill climbing are easier, in even 27ºC ambient air, let >alone in hotter weather. >These 2 valves' insulations also make Fast Idle valve heat up & >reduce idling rpm sooner, & save petrol during idling / coasting. >I could not post here a photo of my F20A's chamber & valves, looks >like this NG bans any photo. Seriously Cheah, It is pretty obvious you could get more power out of the engine with a cold air intake. It might also ice up if the ambient gets cool and damp. It also might emit more pollution, which is something you can blissfully ignore, unless you get caught. (The fine could be $50,000 in the US.) For these reasons, Honda like all other manufacturers must control (i.e. raise) the intake air temperature. Since you are already feeding warmed air into the intake, there is no need to make heroic efforts to cool the intake temperature. Honda engines work superbly under wide conditions virtually all of the time. If yours has a problem, that is unfortunate. If it needs fixing, I would start by restoring it to its original condition and removing your modifications. |
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