Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
[original post is likely clipped to save bandwidth]
On Sat, 05 Aug 2006 18:29:44 GMT, Matt Whiting <whiting@epix.net> wrote: >gerry wrote: > >> [original post is likely clipped to save bandwidth] >> On Sat, 05 Aug 2006 02:47:34 GMT, Matt Whiting <whiting@epix.net> wrote: >> >> >>>jim beam wrote: >>> >>> >>>>Matt Whiting wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>jim beam wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>Matt Whiting wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote: >> >> >>>>no matt - you're the one making the assertion that it makes no >>>>difference. i know it does because i've done fleet testing. i think >>>>where you're getting confused is reading glib little articles on the net >>>>that cleverly avoid the distinction between phrases like: "wear is >>>>reduced" and "wear is within acceptable limits". the difference is >>>>huge. sure, wear at extended intervals /can/ be within acceptable >>>>limits, but that doesn't mean that sorter intervals don't reduce wear >>>>rates to a lower level. >>> >>>They may, but I've seen no documented proof as to when this is >>>meaningful. Post some of your fleet testing results. If my engine will >>>last 200K with 10,000 miles intervals and the body rusts off at 200K, >>>what is the point of reducing engine wear? >>> >>>And why not change oil at 1,000 miles rather than 3,000 as that would >>>reduce wear even more right? How about 500 miles? Why not change it >>>every morning before going to work? >>> >>> >>>Matt >> >> >> >> Heck, at this rate, redirect the oil flow so it is never re circulated >> ;) Add a 100 gallon fresh oil tank and 100 gal holding tank. Ship the >> "used oil" off to be fully reclaimed to original purity. >> >> That seems the direction the ultra frequent changers really recommend ;) > >I just sent in my patent application, Gerry, sorry, but you just weren't >quick enough! :-) > >Matt Bummer ;) gerry -- Personal home page - http://gogood.com gerry misspelled in my email address to confuse robots |
Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
[original post is likely clipped to save bandwidth]
On Sun, 06 Aug 2006 14:08:02 GMT, Andy White <wisynoil@gmail.com> wrote: >On Sat, 05 Aug 2006 12:29:58 +0000, HLS wrote: > >> >> "Mike Marlow" <mmarlow@alltel.net> wrote in message >> news:d8421$44d3f692$471fbb8f$9627@ALLTEL.NET... >> That all by itself does not >>> discredit what you do or what you support - it only says it doesn't offer >>> enough for me. It may also be that if this discussion actually reached a >>> level where some sort of empirical evidence was put forth, it might be >>> obvious that the incremental value of more frequent changes, oil analysis, >>> etc. simply do not offer a statistically significant benefit. >> >> This is the way I feel about oil analyses. >> There is a real shortage of hard data about how well synthetics and refined >> petroleum lubricants actually perform. > >There is not shortage of data. In this conversation there is an acute shortage of data. Care to rectify that? gerry -- Personal home page - http://gogood.com gerry misspelled in my email address to confuse robots |
Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
[original post is likely clipped to save bandwidth]
On Sun, 06 Aug 2006 14:08:02 GMT, Andy White <wisynoil@gmail.com> wrote: >On Sat, 05 Aug 2006 12:29:58 +0000, HLS wrote: > >> >> "Mike Marlow" <mmarlow@alltel.net> wrote in message >> news:d8421$44d3f692$471fbb8f$9627@ALLTEL.NET... >> That all by itself does not >>> discredit what you do or what you support - it only says it doesn't offer >>> enough for me. It may also be that if this discussion actually reached a >>> level where some sort of empirical evidence was put forth, it might be >>> obvious that the incremental value of more frequent changes, oil analysis, >>> etc. simply do not offer a statistically significant benefit. >> >> This is the way I feel about oil analyses. >> There is a real shortage of hard data about how well synthetics and refined >> petroleum lubricants actually perform. > >There is not shortage of data. In this conversation there is an acute shortage of data. Care to rectify that? gerry -- Personal home page - http://gogood.com gerry misspelled in my email address to confuse robots |
Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
[original post is likely clipped to save bandwidth]
On Sun, 06 Aug 2006 14:08:02 GMT, Andy White <wisynoil@gmail.com> wrote: >On Sat, 05 Aug 2006 12:29:58 +0000, HLS wrote: > >> >> "Mike Marlow" <mmarlow@alltel.net> wrote in message >> news:d8421$44d3f692$471fbb8f$9627@ALLTEL.NET... >> That all by itself does not >>> discredit what you do or what you support - it only says it doesn't offer >>> enough for me. It may also be that if this discussion actually reached a >>> level where some sort of empirical evidence was put forth, it might be >>> obvious that the incremental value of more frequent changes, oil analysis, >>> etc. simply do not offer a statistically significant benefit. >> >> This is the way I feel about oil analyses. >> There is a real shortage of hard data about how well synthetics and refined >> petroleum lubricants actually perform. > >There is not shortage of data. In this conversation there is an acute shortage of data. Care to rectify that? gerry -- Personal home page - http://gogood.com gerry misspelled in my email address to confuse robots |
Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
"ACAR" <getoutanpush@yahoo.com> wrote
> The oil change indicator on my new Honda (2004) reminds me > to change > oil every 10,000 miles. It does not indicate % life left. > Honda does > not require full synthetic oil. I think that after 10,000 > miles an > owner shouldn't be concerned about wasting oil by changing > it. What do > you think? Do you have the maintenance minder system described at sites like http://www.hondanews.com/catID2013?m...41013&mime=asc ? If so, from my reading the oil change indicator does not come on based only on mileage. A computer algorithm evaluates engine temperatures, RPM, driving distance, and maybe more to compute whether an oil change is needed. |
Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
"ACAR" <getoutanpush@yahoo.com> wrote
> The oil change indicator on my new Honda (2004) reminds me > to change > oil every 10,000 miles. It does not indicate % life left. > Honda does > not require full synthetic oil. I think that after 10,000 > miles an > owner shouldn't be concerned about wasting oil by changing > it. What do > you think? Do you have the maintenance minder system described at sites like http://www.hondanews.com/catID2013?m...41013&mime=asc ? If so, from my reading the oil change indicator does not come on based only on mileage. A computer algorithm evaluates engine temperatures, RPM, driving distance, and maybe more to compute whether an oil change is needed. |
Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
"ACAR" <getoutanpush@yahoo.com> wrote
> The oil change indicator on my new Honda (2004) reminds me > to change > oil every 10,000 miles. It does not indicate % life left. > Honda does > not require full synthetic oil. I think that after 10,000 > miles an > owner shouldn't be concerned about wasting oil by changing > it. What do > you think? Do you have the maintenance minder system described at sites like http://www.hondanews.com/catID2013?m...41013&mime=asc ? If so, from my reading the oil change indicator does not come on based only on mileage. A computer algorithm evaluates engine temperatures, RPM, driving distance, and maybe more to compute whether an oil change is needed. |
Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
> On 8/6/2006 8:28 PM ... Elle wrote:
> "Matt Whiting" <whiting@epix.net> wrote > in an exchange with Elmo and others >>>>>>> Well, but parts can easily fail due to infrequent oil >>>>>>> changes. >>>>>> Which parts and how do they fail? >>>>> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/sludg...ng_sludge.html > >>> Constant short 3-4 mile trips could do it. >> Possibly. If this 8700 miles was over a several year >> period, especially in a cold slimate, then I can see this >> possibly happening. The site simply has too few details >> to make an accurate assessment. > > The posting of the link above misleads. Indications are that > the engine shown at the site above has an "oil gelling" > problem known to certain Toyotas and in fact resulting in a > special warranty from Toyota. See > http://www.autosafety.org/article.php?scid=&did=566 , among > other sites that discuss this. > > A poorly designed PCV system is arguably the main cause. > Note the mention of the warranty at the Tegger.com site. See > also commentary at the link below from the technician who > worked on this Toyota engine. As of January, 2006, he (and > others with expertise, it seems) puts some blame on > insufficient oil changes, but just as much blame on the PCV > system, which evidently is less tolerant of low oil change > frequency compared to many other makes and models. > > http://groups.google.com/group/alt.a...e16042141f52bc > > > For more on oil gelling in certain Toyotas, see > > http://www.carfax.com/car_safety/rat...OYT4DFCAMRY_LE > > http://www.findarticles.com/p/articl...06/ai_n9093540 > > I understand that the Chrysler 2.7 V6 has a similar problem. |
Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
> On 8/6/2006 8:28 PM ... Elle wrote:
> "Matt Whiting" <whiting@epix.net> wrote > in an exchange with Elmo and others >>>>>>> Well, but parts can easily fail due to infrequent oil >>>>>>> changes. >>>>>> Which parts and how do they fail? >>>>> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/sludg...ng_sludge.html > >>> Constant short 3-4 mile trips could do it. >> Possibly. If this 8700 miles was over a several year >> period, especially in a cold slimate, then I can see this >> possibly happening. The site simply has too few details >> to make an accurate assessment. > > The posting of the link above misleads. Indications are that > the engine shown at the site above has an "oil gelling" > problem known to certain Toyotas and in fact resulting in a > special warranty from Toyota. See > http://www.autosafety.org/article.php?scid=&did=566 , among > other sites that discuss this. > > A poorly designed PCV system is arguably the main cause. > Note the mention of the warranty at the Tegger.com site. See > also commentary at the link below from the technician who > worked on this Toyota engine. As of January, 2006, he (and > others with expertise, it seems) puts some blame on > insufficient oil changes, but just as much blame on the PCV > system, which evidently is less tolerant of low oil change > frequency compared to many other makes and models. > > http://groups.google.com/group/alt.a...e16042141f52bc > > > For more on oil gelling in certain Toyotas, see > > http://www.carfax.com/car_safety/rat...OYT4DFCAMRY_LE > > http://www.findarticles.com/p/articl...06/ai_n9093540 > > I understand that the Chrysler 2.7 V6 has a similar problem. |
Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
> On 8/6/2006 8:28 PM ... Elle wrote:
> "Matt Whiting" <whiting@epix.net> wrote > in an exchange with Elmo and others >>>>>>> Well, but parts can easily fail due to infrequent oil >>>>>>> changes. >>>>>> Which parts and how do they fail? >>>>> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/sludg...ng_sludge.html > >>> Constant short 3-4 mile trips could do it. >> Possibly. If this 8700 miles was over a several year >> period, especially in a cold slimate, then I can see this >> possibly happening. The site simply has too few details >> to make an accurate assessment. > > The posting of the link above misleads. Indications are that > the engine shown at the site above has an "oil gelling" > problem known to certain Toyotas and in fact resulting in a > special warranty from Toyota. See > http://www.autosafety.org/article.php?scid=&did=566 , among > other sites that discuss this. > > A poorly designed PCV system is arguably the main cause. > Note the mention of the warranty at the Tegger.com site. See > also commentary at the link below from the technician who > worked on this Toyota engine. As of January, 2006, he (and > others with expertise, it seems) puts some blame on > insufficient oil changes, but just as much blame on the PCV > system, which evidently is less tolerant of low oil change > frequency compared to many other makes and models. > > http://groups.google.com/group/alt.a...e16042141f52bc > > > For more on oil gelling in certain Toyotas, see > > http://www.carfax.com/car_safety/rat...OYT4DFCAMRY_LE > > http://www.findarticles.com/p/articl...06/ai_n9093540 > > I understand that the Chrysler 2.7 V6 has a similar problem. |
Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
Matt Whiting <whiting@epix.net> wrote in news:vLuBg.327$Db4.27496
@news1.epix.net: > jcr wrote: > >> > On 8/4/2006 10:39 PM ... Matt Whiting wrote: >> >>> Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote: >>> >>>> In article <WNPAg.220$Db4.20522@news1.epix.net>, >>>> Matt Whiting <whiting@epix.net> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>> Well, but parts can easily fail due to infrequent oil changes. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Which parts and how do they fail? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/sludg...ng_sludge.html >>> >>> >>> Yes, some Toyota engines and one Chrysler engine (the 2.7 as I recall) >>> have design errors that cause sludge formation. Frequent oil changes >>> have little affect on this, but changing to synthetic helps a lot. >>> >>> And something is really fishy with this story. I don't believe the >>> 8700 miles for a second. Even sludge prone engines won't build this >>> much sludge in that little mileage. There is more to this than meets >>> the eye. I suspect odometer tampering or possibly even an engine swap >>> with a high mileage engine in order to use the new one for anothe >>> vehicle. >>> >>> Matt >> >> >> Constant short 3-4 mile trips could do it. > > Possibly. If this 8700 miles was over a several year period, especially > in a cold slimate, then I can see this possibly happening. The site > simply has too few details to make an accurate assessment. > > > Matt > Thats why I alwas say DRIVE the car, floor it to get on the free way, and rev that bitch, they love it. My 94 accord has 147,000 miles, dont butn enough oil between chenges to even worry about! -- 1984 RZ350 |
Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
Matt Whiting <whiting@epix.net> wrote in news:vLuBg.327$Db4.27496
@news1.epix.net: > jcr wrote: > >> > On 8/4/2006 10:39 PM ... Matt Whiting wrote: >> >>> Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote: >>> >>>> In article <WNPAg.220$Db4.20522@news1.epix.net>, >>>> Matt Whiting <whiting@epix.net> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>> Well, but parts can easily fail due to infrequent oil changes. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Which parts and how do they fail? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/sludg...ng_sludge.html >>> >>> >>> Yes, some Toyota engines and one Chrysler engine (the 2.7 as I recall) >>> have design errors that cause sludge formation. Frequent oil changes >>> have little affect on this, but changing to synthetic helps a lot. >>> >>> And something is really fishy with this story. I don't believe the >>> 8700 miles for a second. Even sludge prone engines won't build this >>> much sludge in that little mileage. There is more to this than meets >>> the eye. I suspect odometer tampering or possibly even an engine swap >>> with a high mileage engine in order to use the new one for anothe >>> vehicle. >>> >>> Matt >> >> >> Constant short 3-4 mile trips could do it. > > Possibly. If this 8700 miles was over a several year period, especially > in a cold slimate, then I can see this possibly happening. The site > simply has too few details to make an accurate assessment. > > > Matt > Thats why I alwas say DRIVE the car, floor it to get on the free way, and rev that bitch, they love it. My 94 accord has 147,000 miles, dont butn enough oil between chenges to even worry about! -- 1984 RZ350 |
Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
Matt Whiting <whiting@epix.net> wrote in news:vLuBg.327$Db4.27496
@news1.epix.net: > jcr wrote: > >> > On 8/4/2006 10:39 PM ... Matt Whiting wrote: >> >>> Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote: >>> >>>> In article <WNPAg.220$Db4.20522@news1.epix.net>, >>>> Matt Whiting <whiting@epix.net> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>> Well, but parts can easily fail due to infrequent oil changes. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Which parts and how do they fail? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/sludg...ng_sludge.html >>> >>> >>> Yes, some Toyota engines and one Chrysler engine (the 2.7 as I recall) >>> have design errors that cause sludge formation. Frequent oil changes >>> have little affect on this, but changing to synthetic helps a lot. >>> >>> And something is really fishy with this story. I don't believe the >>> 8700 miles for a second. Even sludge prone engines won't build this >>> much sludge in that little mileage. There is more to this than meets >>> the eye. I suspect odometer tampering or possibly even an engine swap >>> with a high mileage engine in order to use the new one for anothe >>> vehicle. >>> >>> Matt >> >> >> Constant short 3-4 mile trips could do it. > > Possibly. If this 8700 miles was over a several year period, especially > in a cold slimate, then I can see this possibly happening. The site > simply has too few details to make an accurate assessment. > > > Matt > Thats why I alwas say DRIVE the car, floor it to get on the free way, and rev that bitch, they love it. My 94 accord has 147,000 miles, dont butn enough oil between chenges to even worry about! -- 1984 RZ350 |
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