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Drive by wire (DBW)????
Can you tell me what "Drive by Wire" is please, on new honda accord
2.2i-CTDi, thanks. Haven't heard of that, cheers. AE |
Re: Drive by wire (DBW)????
"Andy" <blueflame1965@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:09OdndWeBLxH2MranZ2dnUVZ8uqdnZ2d@pipex.net... > Can you tell me what "Drive by Wire" is please, on new honda accord > 2.2i-CTDi, thanks. > > Haven't heard of that, cheers. > > AE Control of something by electrical impulse over a wire rather tugging on a cable-- like in the old days there was one from your gas pedal to the butterfly in the carburetor that opened it wider when you stomped down. When you tromp on the gas pedal these days, it sends a signal to the fuel injector and fuel pump to step up the flow. |
Re: Drive by wire (DBW)????
"Andy" <blueflame1965@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:09OdndWeBLxH2MranZ2dnUVZ8uqdnZ2d@pipex.net: > Can you tell me what "Drive by Wire" is please, on new honda accord > 2.2i-CTDi, thanks. > > Haven't heard of that, cheers. > > AE > > > the steering is actuated by an electric motor that is controlled by a servo actuator loop at the wheel. They're trying to eliminate the power steering pump and reduce load on the engine. IMO,not a good idea;if something glitches or fails,it WILL kill you. There's a reason FlyByWire F-16s got the nickname "Yard Dart". On an F-16,F-15,F/A-18,you gain a lot of maneuverability,something important for fighter jets,but totally unnecessary for an auto. -- Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net |
Re: Drive by wire (DBW)????
"Richard Blaine" <rblaine@lecafe> wrote in
news:rvmdnYK2LPVs18ranZ2dnUVZ_sSlnZ2d@comcast.com: > "Andy" <blueflame1965@hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:09OdndWeBLxH2MranZ2dnUVZ8uqdnZ2d@pipex.net... >> Can you tell me what "Drive by Wire" is please, on new honda accord >> 2.2i-CTDi, thanks. >> >> Haven't heard of that, cheers. >> >> AE > > Control of something by electrical impulse over a wire rather tugging > on a cable-- like in the old days there was one from your gas pedal to > the butterfly in the carburetor that opened it wider when you stomped > down. When you tromp on the gas pedal these days, it sends a signal to > the fuel injector and fuel pump to step up the flow. > > > actually,the ECU makes the injectors stay OPEN (duration) longer,thus more fuel flow.(by sensing throttle pedal position with a variable resistor) -- Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net |
Re: Drive by wire (DBW)????
Richard Blaine wrote:
> "Andy" <blueflame1965@hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:09OdndWeBLxH2MranZ2dnUVZ8uqdnZ2d@pipex.net... >> Can you tell me what "Drive by Wire" is please, on new honda accord >> 2.2i-CTDi, thanks. >> >> Haven't heard of that, cheers. >> >> AE > > Control of something by electrical impulse over a wire rather tugging on a > cable-- like in the old days there was one from your gas pedal to the > butterfly in the carburetor that opened it wider when you stomped down. When > you tromp on the gas pedal these days, it sends a signal to the fuel > injector and fuel pump to step up the flow. In most cars, there is still a cable that attaches to the butterfly in the throttle body. Injector operation is controlled by the ECU based on the airflow measured through the throttle body or manifold, and assorted other sensors' input, rather than direct input from the pedal. |
Re: Drive by wire (DBW)????
Actually, as I understand it, there is an electric pump to reduce the load
on the engine, there is still a mechanical connection between the front wheels & steering wheel.....I could be wrong. "Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote in message news:Xns99FDCE265B989jyanikkuanet@64.209.0.84... > "Andy" <blueflame1965@hotmail.com> wrote in > news:09OdndWeBLxH2MranZ2dnUVZ8uqdnZ2d@pipex.net: > >> Can you tell me what "Drive by Wire" is please, on new honda accord >> 2.2i-CTDi, thanks. >> >> Haven't heard of that, cheers. >> >> AE >> >> >> > > the steering is actuated by an electric motor that is controlled by a > servo > actuator loop at the wheel. They're trying to eliminate the power steering > pump and reduce load on the engine. > > IMO,not a good idea;if something glitches or fails,it WILL kill you. > There's a reason FlyByWire F-16s got the nickname "Yard Dart". > > On an F-16,F-15,F/A-18,you gain a lot of maneuverability,something > important for fighter jets,but totally unnecessary for an auto. > > -- > Jim Yanik > jyanik > at > kua.net |
Re: Drive by wire (DBW)????
Matt Ion wrote:
> Richard Blaine wrote: >> "Andy" <blueflame1965@hotmail.com> wrote in message >> news:09OdndWeBLxH2MranZ2dnUVZ8uqdnZ2d@pipex.net... >>> Can you tell me what "Drive by Wire" is please, on new honda accord >>> 2.2i-CTDi, thanks. >>> >>> Haven't heard of that, cheers. >>> >>> AE >> >> Control of something by electrical impulse over a wire rather tugging >> on a cable-- like in the old days there was one from your gas pedal to >> the butterfly in the carburetor that opened it wider when you stomped >> down. When you tromp on the gas pedal these days, it sends a signal to >> the fuel injector and fuel pump to step up the flow. > > In most cars, there is still a cable that attaches to the butterfly in > the throttle body. Injector operation is controlled by the ECU based on > the airflow measured through the throttle body or manifold, and assorted > other sensors' input, rather than direct input from the pedal. none of the above guys. drive by wire is simply having the throttle operated by a computer controlled servo. it means there is no mechanical connection to the pedal any more - just a sensor that acts as input for the ecu, and the ecu uses that in conjunction with a bunch of other info to calculate how wide to open the throttle. it's especially advantageous for automatics as it means you can de-throttle when the gear changes. injection really has nothing to do with it. |
Re: Drive by wire (DBW)????
Justbob30 wrote:
> Actually, as I understand it, there is an electric pump to reduce the > load on the engine, there is still a mechanical connection between the > front wheels & steering wheel.....I could be wrong. > > "Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote in message > news:Xns99FDCE265B989jyanikkuanet@64.209.0.84... >> "Andy" <blueflame1965@hotmail.com> wrote in >> news:09OdndWeBLxH2MranZ2dnUVZ8uqdnZ2d@pipex.net: >> >>> Can you tell me what "Drive by Wire" is please, on new honda accord >>> 2.2i-CTDi, thanks. >>> >>> Haven't heard of that, cheers. >>> >>> AE >>> >>> >>> >> >> the steering is actuated by an electric motor that is controlled by a >> servo >> actuator loop at the wheel. They're trying to eliminate the power >> steering >> pump and reduce load on the engine. >> >> IMO,not a good idea;if something glitches or fails,it WILL kill you. >> There's a reason FlyByWire F-16s got the nickname "Yard Dart". >> >> On an F-16,F-15,F/A-18,you gain a lot of maneuverability,something >> important for fighter jets,but totally unnecessary for an auto. >> >> -- >> Jim Yanik >> jyanik >> at >> kua.net > yes, electrically controlled power steering. that's not drive by wire. |
Re: Drive by wire (DBW)????
"Justbob30" <NoThank@you.com> wrote in
news:sY-dnRVP3Oqv7cranZ2dnUVZ_gqdnZ2d@comcast.com: > Actually, as I understand it, there is an electric pump to reduce the > load on the engine, there is still a mechanical connection between the > front wheels & steering wheel.....I could be wrong. > > "Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote in message > news:Xns99FDCE265B989jyanikkuanet@64.209.0.84... >> "Andy" <blueflame1965@hotmail.com> wrote in >> news:09OdndWeBLxH2MranZ2dnUVZ8uqdnZ2d@pipex.net: >> >>> Can you tell me what "Drive by Wire" is please, on new honda accord >>> 2.2i-CTDi, thanks. >>> >>> Haven't heard of that, cheers. >>> >>> AE >>> >>> >>> >> >> the steering is actuated by an electric motor that is controlled by a >> servo >> actuator loop at the wheel. They're trying to eliminate the power >> steering pump and reduce load on the engine. >> >> IMO,not a good idea;if something glitches or fails,it WILL kill you. >> There's a reason FlyByWire F-16s got the nickname "Yard Dart". >> >> On an F-16,F-15,F/A-18,you gain a lot of maneuverability,something >> important for fighter jets,but totally unnecessary for an auto. >> >> -- >> Jim Yanik >> jyanik >> at >> kua.net > > it would not be "drive by WIRE" then. for "drive by WIRE",the steering commands come through the wiring,not through any mechanical linkage. And by top posting,you destroy any logical continuity of the thread. -- Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net |
Re: Drive by wire (DBW)????
jim beam <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in
news:07SdnVrMkfRj78ranZ2dnUVZ_jmdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t: > Matt Ion wrote: >> Richard Blaine wrote: >>> "Andy" <blueflame1965@hotmail.com> wrote in message >>> news:09OdndWeBLxH2MranZ2dnUVZ8uqdnZ2d@pipex.net... >>>> Can you tell me what "Drive by Wire" is please, on new honda accord >>>> 2.2i-CTDi, thanks. >>>> >>>> Haven't heard of that, cheers. >>>> >>>> AE >>> >>> Control of something by electrical impulse over a wire rather >>> tugging on a cable-- like in the old days there was one from your >>> gas pedal to the butterfly in the carburetor that opened it wider >>> when you stomped down. When you tromp on the gas pedal these days, >>> it sends a signal to the fuel injector and fuel pump to step up the >>> flow. >> >> In most cars, there is still a cable that attaches to the butterfly >> in the throttle body. Injector operation is controlled by the ECU >> based on the airflow measured through the throttle body or manifold, >> and assorted other sensors' input, rather than direct input from the >> pedal. > > none of the above guys. drive by wire is simply having the throttle > operated by a computer controlled servo. it means there is no > mechanical connection to the pedal any more - just a sensor that acts > as input for the ecu, and the ecu uses that in conjunction with a > bunch of other info to calculate how wide to open the throttle. it's > especially advantageous for automatics as it means you can de-throttle > when the gear changes. injection really has nothing to do with it. > No,"DRIVE by wire" is electrically controlled STEERING. You are describing "throttle by wire". My 2003 Nissan Sentra SE-R SpecV has throttle by wire;the throttle plate is controlled completely by the ECU. Because of some wierd problem,my RPMs sometimes rev up to 1500-2000 RPM and hunt around there for a second,then slowly drop back to idle,without my foot even on the gas pedal.It's caused a CEL of "idle RPM too high".I either need a new PS pressure switch or new programming of the ECU(according to a service bulletin),which can of course only be done by Nissan dealers;....at some charge. I might be able to get the reprograming done under a different safety recall at no cost. -- Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net |
Re: Drive by wire (DBW)????
Jim Yanik wrote:
> "Justbob30" <NoThank@you.com> wrote in > news:sY-dnRVP3Oqv7cranZ2dnUVZ_gqdnZ2d@comcast.com: > >> Actually, as I understand it, there is an electric pump to reduce the >> load on the engine, there is still a mechanical connection between the >> front wheels & steering wheel.....I could be wrong. >> >> "Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote in message >> news:Xns99FDCE265B989jyanikkuanet@64.209.0.84... >>> "Andy" <blueflame1965@hotmail.com> wrote in >>> news:09OdndWeBLxH2MranZ2dnUVZ8uqdnZ2d@pipex.net: >>> >>>> Can you tell me what "Drive by Wire" is please, on new honda accord >>>> 2.2i-CTDi, thanks. >>>> >>>> Haven't heard of that, cheers. >>>> >>>> AE >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> the steering is actuated by an electric motor that is controlled by a >>> servo >>> actuator loop at the wheel. They're trying to eliminate the power >>> steering pump and reduce load on the engine. >>> >>> IMO,not a good idea;if something glitches or fails,it WILL kill you. >>> There's a reason FlyByWire F-16s got the nickname "Yard Dart". >>> >>> On an F-16,F-15,F/A-18,you gain a lot of maneuverability,something >>> important for fighter jets,but totally unnecessary for an auto. >>> >>> -- >>> Jim Yanik >>> jyanik >>> at >>> kua.net >> > > it would not be "drive by WIRE" then. > for "drive by WIRE",the steering commands come through the wiring,not > through any mechanical linkage. Drive by wire means that the linkages in a system are not all mechanical. The system can be brakes, steering, throttle, etc. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drive_by_wire Jeff > And by top posting,you destroy any logical continuity of the thread. > |
Re: Drive by wire (DBW)????
Jim Yanik wrote: > "Andy" <blueflame1965@hotmail.com> wrote in > news:09OdndWeBLxH2MranZ2dnUVZ8uqdnZ2d@pipex.net: > > >>Can you tell me what "Drive by Wire" is please, on new honda accord >>2.2i-CTDi, thanks. >> >>Haven't heard of that, cheers. >> >>AE >> >> >> > > > the steering is actuated by an electric motor that is controlled by a servo > actuator loop at the wheel. They're trying to eliminate the power steering > pump and reduce load on the engine. > > IMO,not a good idea;if something glitches or fails,it WILL kill you. > There's a reason FlyByWire F-16s got the nickname "Yard Dart". > > On an F-16,F-15,F/A-18,you gain a lot of maneuverability,something > important for fighter jets,but totally unnecessary for an auto. > I agree. In airplanes (that receive continuous maintenance) it's ok but not in cars many of which are driven by idiots or worse. Give me a mechanical link to the function of steering, throttle and brakes anyday! OTOH, the L1011 is a fly by wire plane with a perfect safety record. JT |
Re: Drive by wire (DBW)????
Jim Yanik wrote:
> jim beam <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in > news:07SdnVrMkfRj78ranZ2dnUVZ_jmdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t: > >> Matt Ion wrote: >>> Richard Blaine wrote: >>>> "Andy" <blueflame1965@hotmail.com> wrote in message >>>> news:09OdndWeBLxH2MranZ2dnUVZ8uqdnZ2d@pipex.net... >>>>> Can you tell me what "Drive by Wire" is please, on new honda accord >>>>> 2.2i-CTDi, thanks. >>>>> >>>>> Haven't heard of that, cheers. >>>>> >>>>> AE >>>> Control of something by electrical impulse over a wire rather >>>> tugging on a cable-- like in the old days there was one from your >>>> gas pedal to the butterfly in the carburetor that opened it wider >>>> when you stomped down. When you tromp on the gas pedal these days, >>>> it sends a signal to the fuel injector and fuel pump to step up the >>>> flow. >>> In most cars, there is still a cable that attaches to the butterfly >>> in the throttle body. Injector operation is controlled by the ECU >>> based on the airflow measured through the throttle body or manifold, >>> and assorted other sensors' input, rather than direct input from the >>> pedal. >> none of the above guys. drive by wire is simply having the throttle >> operated by a computer controlled servo. it means there is no >> mechanical connection to the pedal any more - just a sensor that acts >> as input for the ecu, and the ecu uses that in conjunction with a >> bunch of other info to calculate how wide to open the throttle. it's >> especially advantageous for automatics as it means you can de-throttle >> when the gear changes. injection really has nothing to do with it. >> > > No,"DRIVE by wire" is electrically controlled STEERING. no such thing that i've ever seen on a civilian road vehicle. honda is simply mechanical power steering [just like any other car] but with electronic control on the degree of assist. > You are describing "throttle by wire". which is referred to, by honda and other manufacturers, as drive by wire. > > My 2003 Nissan Sentra SE-R SpecV has throttle by wire;the throttle plate is > controlled completely by the ECU. Because of some wierd problem,my RPMs > sometimes rev up to 1500-2000 RPM and hunt around there for a second,then > slowly drop back to idle,without my foot even on the gas pedal.It's caused > a CEL of "idle RPM too high".I either need a new PS pressure switch or new > programming of the ECU(according to a service bulletin),which can of course > only be done by Nissan dealers;....at some charge. > > I might be able to get the reprograming done under a different safety > recall at no cost. > > |
Re: Drive by wire (DBW)????
Jim Yanik wrote:
> "Richard Blaine" <rblaine@lecafe> wrote in > news:rvmdnYK2LPVs18ranZ2dnUVZ_sSlnZ2d@comcast.com: > >> "Andy" <blueflame1965@hotmail.com> wrote in message >> news:09OdndWeBLxH2MranZ2dnUVZ8uqdnZ2d@pipex.net... >>> Can you tell me what "Drive by Wire" is please, on new honda accord >>> 2.2i-CTDi, thanks. >>> >>> Haven't heard of that, cheers. >>> >>> AE >> Control of something by electrical impulse over a wire rather tugging >> on a cable-- like in the old days there was one from your gas pedal to >> the butterfly in the carburetor that opened it wider when you stomped >> down. When you tromp on the gas pedal these days, it sends a signal to >> the fuel injector and fuel pump to step up the flow. >> >> >> > > actually,the ECU makes the injectors stay OPEN (duration) longer,thus more > fuel flow.(by sensing throttle pedal position with a variable resistor) > not on its own it doesn't. throttle position is just one of many sensor inputs that the ecu uses to calculate injection duration. these also include: oxygen sensor coolant temperature air temperature air pressure - manifold air pressure - atmosphere throttle position is just part of the equation. if you want to check out how the math is done, read this: http://www.megamanual.com/v22manual/mfuel.htm |
Re: Drive by wire (DBW)????
From Honda's website...
http://automobiles.honda.com/accord-...re=drivebywire Drive-by-WireT Throttle SystemInstead of a mechanical linkage from the accelerator to the fuel-injection throttle, the Accord Sedan uses Drive-by-Wire technology. The system uses an electronic position sensor connected to the accelerator pedal that sends an electronic signal to the Powertrain Control Module (PCM). "Grumpy AuContraire" <Grumpy@ExtraGrumpyville.com> wrote in message news:8lL5j.211000$kj1.56160@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net... > > > Jim Yanik wrote: >> "Andy" <blueflame1965@hotmail.com> wrote in >> news:09OdndWeBLxH2MranZ2dnUVZ8uqdnZ2d@pipex.net: >> >> >>>Can you tell me what "Drive by Wire" is please, on new honda accord >>>2.2i-CTDi, thanks. >>> >>>Haven't heard of that, cheers. >>> >>>AE >>> >>> >> >> >> the steering is actuated by an electric motor that is controlled by a >> servo actuator loop at the wheel. They're trying to eliminate the power >> steering pump and reduce load on the engine. >> >> IMO,not a good idea;if something glitches or fails,it WILL kill you. >> There's a reason FlyByWire F-16s got the nickname "Yard Dart". >> >> On an F-16,F-15,F/A-18,you gain a lot of maneuverability,something >> important for fighter jets,but totally unnecessary for an auto. >> > > > I agree. In airplanes (that receive continuous maintenance) it's ok but > not in cars many of which are driven by idiots or worse. > > Give me a mechanical link to the function of steering, throttle and brakes > anyday! > > OTOH, the L1011 is a fly by wire plane with a perfect safety record. > > JT |
Re: Drive by wire (DBW)????
Grumpy AuContraire wrote:
> > > Jim Yanik wrote: >> "Andy" <blueflame1965@hotmail.com> wrote in >> news:09OdndWeBLxH2MranZ2dnUVZ8uqdnZ2d@pipex.net: >> >> >>> Can you tell me what "Drive by Wire" is please, on new honda accord >>> 2.2i-CTDi, thanks. >>> >>> Haven't heard of that, cheers. >>> >>> AE >>> >>> >> >> >> the steering is actuated by an electric motor that is controlled by a >> servo actuator loop at the wheel. They're trying to eliminate the >> power steering pump and reduce load on the engine. >> >> IMO,not a good idea;if something glitches or fails,it WILL kill you. >> There's a reason FlyByWire F-16s got the nickname "Yard Dart". >> >> On an F-16,F-15,F/A-18,you gain a lot of maneuverability,something >> important for fighter jets,but totally unnecessary for an auto. >> > > > I agree. In airplanes (that receive continuous maintenance) it's ok but > not in cars many of which are driven by idiots or worse. > > Give me a mechanical link to the function of steering, still have one. > throttle and why? all a throttle does is control air. with a diesel, "throttle" doesn't even do that! > brakes anyday! if you have hydraulic or air brakes, and most us have for at least 50 years, you have no direct mechanical linkage. > > OTOH, the L1011 is a fly by wire plane with a perfect safety record. > > JT |
Re: Drive by wire (DBW)????
On Dec 5, 7:44 pm, "Andy" <blueflame1...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Can you tell me what "Drive by Wire" is please, on new honda accord > 2.2i-CTDi, thanks. > > Haven't heard of that, cheers. > > AE Hopefully, you have your answer but if not - Drive by Wire typically refers to the electronic connection of the gas pedal to the engine - so when you push down on the pedal, it sends a signal to the engine control computer than you want to speed it. The control computer then uses a whole series of inputs to determine how to adjust the engine to meet your request. There isn't any mechanical connection to the engine from the gas pedal. This is noticeable, for example, when using cruise control - a DBW system won't cause the gas pedal to move as the engine speed changes to maintain the cruise setting. My Audi A4 has this feature. Electric (or electronic) power steering simply replaces the hydraulic, engine-driven power steering pump with an electric pump that doesn't require being hooked to the engine. The steering is still a direct, mechanical connection, so that if the pump fails, you can still steer the car (albeit requiring much more force). I don't know that any cars currently made have a non-direct mechanical connection between the steering wheel and the front wheel, and would be VERY surprised to see that happen in the near future. Dan D '07 Ody EX Central NJ USA |
Re: Drive by wire (DBW)????
wow, cheers guys, look like i started something there, didn't I? lol
Thanks again I now have a little more understanding :-) Thinking of buying a used 2.2 Diesel and noticed this wording and never seen it mentioned before. Does anyone have a 2.2 accord? Your comments on the vehicle i would appreciate.... thanks again by the way... AE "Dano58" <dan.dibiase@gmail.com> wrote in message news:719126f0-c388-4c77-bb89-9c2e5f548c9c@d61g2000hsa.googlegroups.com... > On Dec 5, 7:44 pm, "Andy" <blueflame1...@hotmail.com> wrote: >> Can you tell me what "Drive by Wire" is please, on new honda accord >> 2.2i-CTDi, thanks. >> >> Haven't heard of that, cheers. >> >> AE > > Hopefully, you have your answer but if not - > > Drive by Wire typically refers to the electronic connection of the gas > pedal to the engine - so when you push down on the pedal, it sends a > signal to the engine control computer than you want to speed it. The > control computer then uses a whole series of inputs to determine how > to adjust the engine to meet your request. There isn't any mechanical > connection to the engine from the gas pedal. This is noticeable, for > example, when using cruise control - a DBW system won't cause the gas > pedal to move as the engine speed changes to maintain the cruise > setting. My Audi A4 has this feature. > > Electric (or electronic) power steering simply replaces the hydraulic, > engine-driven power steering pump with an electric pump that doesn't > require being hooked to the engine. The steering is still a direct, > mechanical connection, so that if the pump fails, you can still steer > the car (albeit requiring much more force). I don't know that any cars > currently made have a non-direct mechanical connection between the > steering wheel and the front wheel, and would be VERY surprised to see > that happen in the near future. > > Dan D > '07 Ody EX > Central NJ USA |
Re: Drive by wire (DBW)????
Grumpy AuContraire <Grumpy@ExtraGrumpyville.com> wrote in
news:8lL5j.211000$kj1.56160@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net: > > > Jim Yanik wrote: >> "Andy" <blueflame1965@hotmail.com> wrote in >> news:09OdndWeBLxH2MranZ2dnUVZ8uqdnZ2d@pipex.net: >> >> >>>Can you tell me what "Drive by Wire" is please, on new honda accord >>>2.2i-CTDi, thanks. >>> >>>Haven't heard of that, cheers. >>> >>>AE >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> the steering is actuated by an electric motor that is controlled by a >> servo actuator loop at the wheel. They're trying to eliminate the >> power steering pump and reduce load on the engine. >> >> IMO,not a good idea;if something glitches or fails,it WILL kill you. >> There's a reason FlyByWire F-16s got the nickname "Yard Dart". >> >> On an F-16,F-15,F/A-18,you gain a lot of maneuverability,something >> important for fighter jets,but totally unnecessary for an auto. >> > > > I agree. In airplanes (that receive continuous maintenance) it's ok > but not in cars many of which are driven by idiots or worse. > > Give me a mechanical link to the function of steering, throttle and > brakes anyday! > > OTOH, the L1011 is a fly by wire plane with a perfect safety record. > > JT > yes,and the L1011 gets constant maintenance and checks,and has triple redundancy in the flight controls. -- Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net |
Re: Drive by wire (DBW)????
Jim Yanik wrote: > Grumpy AuContraire <Grumpy@ExtraGrumpyville.com> wrote in > news:8lL5j.211000$kj1.56160@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net: > > >> >>Jim Yanik wrote: >> >>>"Andy" <blueflame1965@hotmail.com> wrote in >>>news:09OdndWeBLxH2MranZ2dnUVZ8uqdnZ2d@pipex.net : >>> >>> >>> >>>>Can you tell me what "Drive by Wire" is please, on new honda accord >>>>2.2i-CTDi, thanks. >>>> >>>>Haven't heard of that, cheers. >>>> >>>>AE >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>>the steering is actuated by an electric motor that is controlled by a >>>servo actuator loop at the wheel. They're trying to eliminate the >>>power steering pump and reduce load on the engine. >>> >>>IMO,not a good idea;if something glitches or fails,it WILL kill you. >>>There's a reason FlyByWire F-16s got the nickname "Yard Dart". >>> >>>On an F-16,F-15,F/A-18,you gain a lot of maneuverability,something >>>important for fighter jets,but totally unnecessary for an auto. >>> >> >> >>I agree. In airplanes (that receive continuous maintenance) it's ok >>but not in cars many of which are driven by idiots or worse. >> >>Give me a mechanical link to the function of steering, throttle and >>brakes anyday! >> >>OTOH, the L1011 is a fly by wire plane with a perfect safety record. >> >>JT >> > > > yes,and the L1011 gets constant maintenance and checks,and has triple > redundancy in the flight controls. > Actually, the L1011 has four separate hydraulic systems. You bet they're maintained. Such doesn't exist in the automotive world. JT |
Re: Drive by wire (DBW)????
jim beam wrote: > Grumpy AuContraire wrote: > >> >> >> Jim Yanik wrote: >> >>> "Andy" <blueflame1965@hotmail.com> wrote in >>> news:09OdndWeBLxH2MranZ2dnUVZ8uqdnZ2d@pipex.net: >>> >>> >>>> Can you tell me what "Drive by Wire" is please, on new honda accord >>>> 2.2i-CTDi, thanks. >>>> >>>> Haven't heard of that, cheers. >>>> >>>> AE >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> the steering is actuated by an electric motor that is controlled by a >>> servo actuator loop at the wheel. They're trying to eliminate the >>> power steering pump and reduce load on the engine. >>> >>> IMO,not a good idea;if something glitches or fails,it WILL kill you. >>> There's a reason FlyByWire F-16s got the nickname "Yard Dart". >>> >>> On an F-16,F-15,F/A-18,you gain a lot of maneuverability,something >>> important for fighter jets,but totally unnecessary for an auto. >>> >> >> >> I agree. In airplanes (that receive continuous maintenance) it's ok >> but not in cars many of which are driven by idiots or worse. >> >> Give me a mechanical link to the function of steering, > > > still have one. > > >> throttle and > > > why? all a throttle does is control air. with a diesel, "throttle" > doesn't even do that! > > >> brakes anyday! > > > if you have hydraulic or air brakes, and most us have for at least 50 > years, you have no direct mechanical linkage. > > >> >> OTOH, the L1011 is a fly by wire plane with a perfect safety record. >> >> JT So, as usual you are cantakerous and take statements out of context. Drive by wire means EXACTLY that. Kindly stick to the basics, OK? JT |
Re: Drive by wire (DBW)????
Grumpy AuContraire wrote:
> > > jim beam wrote: > >> Grumpy AuContraire wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> Jim Yanik wrote: >>> >>>> "Andy" <blueflame1965@hotmail.com> wrote in >>>> news:09OdndWeBLxH2MranZ2dnUVZ8uqdnZ2d@pipex.net: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Can you tell me what "Drive by Wire" is please, on new honda accord >>>>> 2.2i-CTDi, thanks. >>>>> >>>>> Haven't heard of that, cheers. >>>>> >>>>> AE >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> the steering is actuated by an electric motor that is controlled by >>>> a servo actuator loop at the wheel. They're trying to eliminate the >>>> power steering pump and reduce load on the engine. >>>> >>>> IMO,not a good idea;if something glitches or fails,it WILL kill you. >>>> There's a reason FlyByWire F-16s got the nickname "Yard Dart". >>>> >>>> On an F-16,F-15,F/A-18,you gain a lot of maneuverability,something >>>> important for fighter jets,but totally unnecessary for an auto. >>>> >>> >>> >>> I agree. In airplanes (that receive continuous maintenance) it's ok >>> but not in cars many of which are driven by idiots or worse. >>> >>> Give me a mechanical link to the function of steering, >> >> >> still have one. >> >> >>> throttle and >> >> >> why? all a throttle does is control air. with a diesel, "throttle" >> doesn't even do that! >> >> >>> brakes anyday! >> >> >> if you have hydraulic or air brakes, and most us have for at least 50 >> years, you have no direct mechanical linkage. >> >> >>> >>> OTOH, the L1011 is a fly by wire plane with a perfect safety record. >>> >>> JT > > > So, as usual you are cantakerous and take statements out of context. > > Drive by wire means EXACTLY that. Kindly stick to the basics, OK? > > JT > "drive by wire" is not "steer by wire". kindly stick to "share what you know, learn what you don't", ok? |
Re: Drive by wire (DBW)????
jim beam wrote:
> "drive by wire" is not "steer by wire". > > kindly stick to "share what you know, learn what you don't", ok? You all sound like a bunch of bickering women. "Drive by wire" is a term usurped from "fly by wire" in the first place, used to refer to electronic steering control, throttle control, potentially braking control (haven't seen anyone using that yet, but it's only a matter of time), or any other electronic, non-mechanically-interfaced control of a car's "drive" systems. The term is used differently by different manufacturers as to which system it's referring to, and indeed, probably refers to multiple systems in some (throttle AND steering together, for example). Since the meaning varies with the specific make of car, debating it here is completely meaningless... same as debating whether the proper term is ABS for Antilock Braking System, or ALB for Anti Lock Brakes, or any other acronym for that type of system, which varies from one manufacturer to the next. |
Re: Drive by wire (DBW)????
Matt Ion wrote: > jim beam wrote: > >> "drive by wire" is not "steer by wire". >> >> kindly stick to "share what you know, learn what you don't", ok? > > > You all sound like a bunch of bickering women. > Sez you... You wanna make somethin of it??? <G> > "Drive by wire" is a term usurped from "fly by wire" in the first place, > used to refer to electronic steering control, throttle control, > potentially braking control (haven't seen anyone using that yet, but > it's only a matter of time), or any other electronic, > non-mechanically-interfaced control of a car's "drive" systems. > > The term is used differently by different manufacturers as to which > system it's referring to, and indeed, probably refers to multiple > systems in some (throttle AND steering together, for example). Since > the meaning varies with the specific make of car, debating it here is > completely meaningless... same as debating whether the proper term is > ABS for Antilock Braking System, or ALB for Anti Lock Brakes, or any > other acronym for that type of system, which varies from one > manufacturer to the next. > Actually, I'll accept your description since the application "...by wire" is somewhat generic with automobiles. Anti lock brakes have been used in aircraft for a long time but again, airplanes are subject to specific mandatory maintenance regimens. JT |
Re: Drive by wire (DBW)????
Matt Ion wrote:
> jim beam wrote: > >> "drive by wire" is not "steer by wire". >> >> kindly stick to "share what you know, learn what you don't", ok? > > You all sound like a bunch of bickering women. you forgot "old". > > "Drive by wire" is a term usurped from "fly by wire" in the first place, of course!!! > used to refer to electronic steering control, but /nobody/ has that. and nobody /will/ have that unless you want a car with autopilot. and that's not coming to public roads for a while yet. > throttle control, most modern cars have that now. > potentially braking control (haven't seen anyone using that yet, mercedes had it [sbc - sensotronic brake control] but dropped it - customers didn't like it. they even retrofitted back to standard/abs brakes for cars that had been shipped with it. > but > it's only a matter of time), or any other electronic, > non-mechanically-interfaced control of a car's "drive" systems. > > The term is used differently by different manufacturers as to which > system it's referring to, and indeed, probably refers to multiple > systems in some (throttle AND steering together, for example). Since > the meaning varies with the specific make of car, debating it here is > completely meaningless... same as debating whether the proper term is > ABS for Antilock Braking System, or ALB for Anti Lock Brakes, or any > other acronym for that type of system, which varies from one > manufacturer to the next. > |
Re: Drive by wire (DBW)????
Matt Ion <soundy106@gmail.com> wrote in news:lo46j.4421$iU.3489@pd7urf2no:
> jim beam wrote: > >> "drive by wire" is not "steer by wire". >> >> kindly stick to "share what you know, learn what you don't", ok? > > You all sound like a bunch of bickering women. > > "Drive by wire" is a term usurped from "fly by wire" in the first place, > used to refer to electronic steering control, throttle control, Actually,jet engines have had electronic "throttle" control long before the term "fly-by-wire" came into use.The FBW term has been used for FLIGHT controls("steering" the AC),not engine control. -- Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net |
Re: Drive by wire (DBW)????
jim beam <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in
news:16WdnUHf27wGRcXanZ2dnUVZ_gmdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t: > Matt Ion wrote: >> jim beam wrote: >> >>> "drive by wire" is not "steer by wire". Uh,yeah,it is. >>> >>> kindly stick to "share what you know, learn what you don't", ok? >> >> You all sound like a bunch of bickering women. > > you forgot "old". > > >> >> "Drive by wire" is a term usurped from "fly by wire" in the first >> place, Meaning FLIGHT control("steering"),not engine control,since jet engines have used electronic control long before FBW was implemented. > > of course!!! > > >> used to refer to electronic steering control, > > but /nobody/ has that. and nobody /will/ have that unless you want a > car with autopilot. and that's not coming to public roads for a while > yet. > It's changing THIS YEAR; http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2...09/070164.html says Mazda will have it(electronic steering control) on one of their 2008 platforms -- Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net |
Re: Drive by wire (DBW)????
Jim Yanik wrote:
> jim beam <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in > news:16WdnUHf27wGRcXanZ2dnUVZ_gmdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t: > >> Matt Ion wrote: >>> jim beam wrote: >>> >>>> "drive by wire" is not "steer by wire". > > Uh,yeah,it is. sorry dude, it's not. there are no cars that have that. not one. /all/ use direct mechanical linkage between the steering wheel and the front wheel knuckles. most have power assist. assist is not electronic control. > >>>> kindly stick to "share what you know, learn what you don't", ok? >>> You all sound like a bunch of bickering women. >> you forgot "old". >> >> >>> "Drive by wire" is a term usurped from "fly by wire" in the first >>> place, > > Meaning FLIGHT control("steering"),not engine control,since jet engines > have used electronic control long before FBW was implemented. >> of course!!! >> >> >>> used to refer to electronic steering control, >> but /nobody/ has that. and nobody /will/ have that unless you want a >> car with autopilot. and that's not coming to public roads for a while >> yet. >> > > It's changing THIS YEAR; > http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2...09/070164.html > says Mazda will have it(electronic steering control) on one of their 2008 > platforms you could argue that about the rear of honda's 4ws they had on the prelude back in the 80's. but it's not the real deal. the fact remains, all these vehicles have direct mechanical linkage. in the even of system failure or shutdown, driver has direct mechanical control. that is not the case with any form of "fly by wire". |
Re: Drive by wire (DBW)????
On Thu, 6 Dec 2007 00:44:08 -0000, "Andy" <blueflame1965@hotmail.com>
wrote: >Can you tell me what "Drive by Wire" is please, on new honda accord >2.2i-CTDi, thanks. Having the throttle controlled by an ECU (computer) driven Servo instead of by a mechanical cable link. Something that Honda does very well on the S2000 (which feels like a mechanical link and very natural) yet very horribly on my wife's '07 Si sedan (which hangs for about 1-1.5 seconds after letting off the throttle thus turning anyone who has a clue how to drive into a herky-jerky looking idiot... In this case it's worse than GM's skip shift and the service techs can't seem to find a way to reprogram it...) |
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