Dual Engines
 

How is it possible to mount a second engine to the rear end of a car? And
how does the driver control two transmissions with one shifter? Does the
advantage outweigh having a single, high-power engine?

Re: Dual Engines
 

Curious wrote:
>
> How is it possible to mount a second engine to the rear end of a car? And
> how does the driver control two transmissions with one shifter? Does the
> advantage outweigh having a single, high-power engine?

=======================================

Yours is one of the strangest questions ever posted her. Here's an even
stranger answer:

http://www.mrsharkey.com/pusher.htm

'Curly'

Re: Dual Engines
 

'Curly Q. Links' wrote:
> Curious wrote:
> >
> > How is it possible to mount a second engine to the rear end of a car? And
> > how does the driver control two transmissions with one shifter? Does the
> > advantage outweigh having a single, high-power engine?
>
> =======================================
>
> Yours is one of the strangest questions ever posted her. Here's an even
> stranger answer:
>
> http://www.mrsharkey.com/pusher.htm
>
> 'Curly'

For the original poster, since you're contemplating something pretty
strange, why not try the following instead:
Get two cars, cut them in half (front and back) and weld both fronts
together. Two engines, four wheel drive, four way steering. :)

We expect to see pictures when you're done.
Remco

Re: Dual Engines
 

Curious <mrcurious@nowhere.net> wrote in
news:Xns96C572377FC4Emrcuriousnowherenet@63.223.7. 253:

> How is it possible to mount a second engine to the rear end of a car?


Absolutely.

Chevrolet made a one-off Chevette back in the '80s that had two engines.
Car and Driver reported on it in an article entitled "How to Scare Your
Mother".

Citroen made those out of their 2CV years ago (it was sold in Africa and I
think was called the "Sahara"). Renault made them out of their R5 (Le Car)
as a rally homologation special.

If I can find my copies of Practical Classics that have these, I'll scan
the articles and post them.


> And how does the driver control two transmissions with one shifter?
> Does the advantage outweigh having a single, high-power engine?


Transmission control with a single shifter is easy enough. Many, many
vehicles have been made with rear linkages. I'd assume the shifter would be
somewhat heavier to move, though.

The advantage is simple: Engine makes 100 hp. Car weighs 2,500 lbs. Each hp
has to move 25 pounds. Now put in two engines. Car now has 200 hp, but only
weighs 3,000 lbs. Each hp only has to move 15 lbs. That's a 40% increase in
motive power.

The disadvantages are complexity, expense, and thirst.

--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Re: Dual Engines
 

Curious wrote:
> How is it possible to mount a second engine to the rear end of a car? And
> how does the driver control two transmissions with one shifter? Does the
> advantage outweigh having a single, high-power engine?

of course you can. how much do you want to spend doing it? advantage
of the weight of two engines, two transmissions, and the control
elements? not much. better to go for a single power unit, single
transmission and keep it as simple as possible.

Re: Dual Engines
 

On 2 Sep 2005 16:57:25 -0700, "Remco" <whybcuz@yahoo.com> wrote:

>'Curly Q. Links' wrote:
>> Curious wrote:
>> >
>> > How is it possible to mount a second engine to the rear end of a car? And
>> > how does the driver control two transmissions with one shifter? Does the
>> > advantage outweigh having a single, high-power engine?
>>
>> =======================================
>>
>> Yours is one of the strangest questions ever posted her. Here's an even
>> stranger answer:
>>
>> http://www.mrsharkey.com/pusher.htm
>>
>> 'Curly'
>
>For the original poster, since you're contemplating something pretty
>strange, why not try the following instead:
>Get two cars, cut them in half (front and back) and weld both fronts
>together. Two engines, four wheel drive, four way steering. :)
>
>We expect to see pictures when you're done.
>Remco
i remmeber seeing a 'car challenge' program that had that as a
challenge. 3 teams were given a thousand pounds (about $1800) to buy
two cars and anything special, then they had 2 days to make the car
you described, ready for a race with offroad, high speed, and handling
areas, including those where 4wheel steering would be required to
crab. Each car still had 2 drivers in it.

The winner used the front oend of a rover 800 vitesse (with a 200hp 2l
turbo unit) and a fiat panda front end for the 'back'.Was a very
interesting episode, 2 of the cars made it, one broke down before the
end, but not far before 9it was smoething like a 8 mile course)

Re: Dual Engines
 

Curious wrote:
>
> How is it possible to mount a second engine to the rear end of a car? And
> how does the driver control two transmissions with one shifter? Does the
> advantage outweigh having a single, high-power engine?

Someone did that to a Volkswagen Golf a number of years back. The car
competed in the Pikes Peak run, and I believe it won its class. Can't
find any references to it on the web, though.
--
================================================== =====
A very modest collection of Honda tech info can be found at:
http://www.geocities.com/ng_randolph

Re: Dual Engines
 

Curious wrote:

> How is it possible to mount a second engine to the rear end of a car? And
> how does the driver control two transmissions with one shifter? Does the
> advantage outweigh having a single, high-power engine?

Chrysler's done it. Check out the Jeep Hurricane concept vehicle.

"...Hurricane is not just HEMI®-equipped, but HEMI squared. There are
two 5.7-liter HEMI engines in the vehicle: one in the front and one in
the back. Both engines deliver 335 horsepower and 370 lb-ft of torque -
a total of 670 hp and 740 lb-ft of torque."

http://www.jeep.com/autoshow/news/hurricane.html


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Re: Dual Engines
 

On Sat, 03 Sep 2005 03:09:02 GMT, Randolph <trash@junkmail.com> wrote:

>
>Curious wrote:
>>
>> How is it possible to mount a second engine to the rear end of a car? And
>> how does the driver control two transmissions with one shifter? Does the
>> advantage outweigh having a single, high-power engine?
>
>Someone did that to a Volkswagen Golf a number of years back. The car
>competed in the Pikes Peak run, and I believe it won its class. Can't
>find any references to it on the web, though.

Yeah, it also did a run on top gear, i think. Well, either top gear,
or one of clarkson's videos.

Then there was also the dual engined Mercedies A-class cars that were
given to Hakkenin and coulthard around 97-98 time.

Re: Dual Engines
 

"flobert" <nomail@here.NOT> wrote in message
news:254ih15j3t192hoop43tebrfdjmlcthv3n@4ax.com...
> On 2 Sep 2005 16:57:25 -0700, "Remco" <whybcuz@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >'Curly Q. Links' wrote:
> >> Curious wrote:
> >> >
> >> > How is it possible to mount a second engine to the rear end of a car?
And
> >> > how does the driver control two transmissions with one shifter? Does
the
> >> > advantage outweigh having a single, high-power engine?
> >>
> >> =======================================
> >>
> >> Yours is one of the strangest questions ever posted her. Here's an even
> >> stranger answer:
> >>
> >> http://www.mrsharkey.com/pusher.htm
> >>
> >> 'Curly'
> >
> >For the original poster, since you're contemplating something pretty
> >strange, why not try the following instead:
> >Get two cars, cut them in half (front and back) and weld both fronts
> >together. Two engines, four wheel drive, four way steering. :)
> >
> >We expect to see pictures when you're done.
> >Remco
> i remmeber seeing a 'car challenge' program that had that as a
> challenge. 3 teams were given a thousand pounds (about $1800) to buy
> two cars and anything special, then they had 2 days to make the car
> you described, ready for a race with offroad, high speed, and handling
> areas, including those where 4wheel steering would be required to
> crab. Each car still had 2 drivers in it.
>
> The winner used the front oend of a rover 800 vitesse (with a 200hp 2l
> turbo unit) and a fiat panda front end for the 'back'.Was a very
> interesting episode, 2 of the cars made it, one broke down before the
> end, but not far before 9it was smoething like a 8 mile course)

Very cool! I'd love to see that one.
There's a show here in the US where they do similar things called "Monster
Garage" -- they can only cram so much in a 1 hour episode so it tends to be
more drama than technique, but some of the thing they make are very
interesting.

Re: Dual Engines
 

On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 14:13:37 -0400, Curious <mrcurious@nowhere.net>
wrote:
>How is it possible to mount a second engine to the rear end of a car? And
>how does the driver control two transmissions with one shifter? Does the
>advantage outweigh having a single, high-power engine?

Why stop at two?

Re: Dual Engines
 

On Sat, 3 Sep 2005 06:25:53 -0400, "remco"
<whybcuzREMOVE@THISyahoo.com> wrote:

>
>"flobert" <nomail@here.NOT> wrote in message
>news:254ih15j3t192hoop43tebrfdjmlcthv3n@4ax.com.. .
>> On 2 Sep 2005 16:57:25 -0700, "Remco" <whybcuz@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> >'Curly Q. Links' wrote:
>> >> Curious wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > How is it possible to mount a second engine to the rear end of a car?
>And
>> >> > how does the driver control two transmissions with one shifter? Does
>the
>> >> > advantage outweigh having a single, high-power engine?
>> >>
>> >> =======================================
>> >>
>> >> Yours is one of the strangest questions ever posted her. Here's an even
>> >> stranger answer:
>> >>
>> >> http://www.mrsharkey.com/pusher.htm
>> >>
>> >> 'Curly'
>> >
>> >For the original poster, since you're contemplating something pretty
>> >strange, why not try the following instead:
>> >Get two cars, cut them in half (front and back) and weld both fronts
>> >together. Two engines, four wheel drive, four way steering. :)
>> >
>> >We expect to see pictures when you're done.
>> >Remco
>> i remmeber seeing a 'car challenge' program that had that as a
>> challenge. 3 teams were given a thousand pounds (about $1800) to buy
>> two cars and anything special, then they had 2 days to make the car
>> you described, ready for a race with offroad, high speed, and handling
>> areas, including those where 4wheel steering would be required to
>> crab. Each car still had 2 drivers in it.
>>
>> The winner used the front oend of a rover 800 vitesse (with a 200hp 2l
>> turbo unit) and a fiat panda front end for the 'back'.Was a very
>> interesting episode, 2 of the cars made it, one broke down before the
>> end, but not far before 9it was smoething like a 8 mile course)
>
>Very cool! I'd love to see that one.
>There's a show here in the US where they do similar things called "Monster
>Garage" -- they can only cram so much in a 1 hour episode so it tends to be
>more drama than technique, but some of the thing they make are very
>interesting.

Yeah, its not really the same kind of show, since therse only one team
in MG, theres 3 in the other one, and the start vehicle is chosen by
the production company, and the parts buying is rigged. The british
one is a hard limit (because UK tv companies are cheap) and the money
you got it is. No new engines and high end parts for them. Its
junkyard cars, and parts from the lcassified ads. makes for a more
interesting show

Some friends and aquaintencies ahve been on Mgand at least one said
that the end vehicle is heavily 'steered' towards. You don't really
get much say in what the design will be. That was when he was on the
delorian hovercraft ep (i think)

>
>

Re: Dual Engines
 

jim beam wrote:
> Curious wrote:
>> How is it possible to mount a second engine to the rear end of a
>> car? And how does the driver control two transmissions with one
>> shifter? Does the advantage outweigh having a single, high-power
>> engine?
>
> of course you can. how much do you want to spend doing it? advantage
> of the weight of two engines, two transmissions, and the control
> elements? not much. better to go for a single power unit, single
> transmission and keep it as simple as possible.

Dual drive systems are used quite a bit in industry. It is best to use
servo controls with high resolution encoders for feedback for these types of
systems.

Re: Dual Engines
 

L Alpert wrote:
> jim beam wrote:
>
>>Curious wrote:
>>
>>>How is it possible to mount a second engine to the rear end of a
>>>car? And how does the driver control two transmissions with one
>>>shifter? Does the advantage outweigh having a single, high-power
>>>engine?
>>
>>of course you can. how much do you want to spend doing it? advantage
>>of the weight of two engines, two transmissions, and the control
>>elements? not much. better to go for a single power unit, single
>>transmission and keep it as simple as possible.
>
>
> Dual drive systems are used quite a bit in industry. It is best to use
> servo controls with high resolution encoders for feedback for these types of
> systems.

absolutely! especially on larger equipment where transmission over
distance is problematic. but on something like a racing car?
especially a mid-engined one, you're just increasing weight & decreasing
reliability. but then again, the "cool" factor gets the fans excited,
so it's great for publicity.

>
>

Re: Dual Engines
 

jim beam wrote:
> L Alpert wrote:
>> jim beam wrote:
>>
>>> Curious wrote:
>>>
>>>> How is it possible to mount a second engine to the rear end of a
>>>> car? And how does the driver control two transmissions with one
>>>> shifter? Does the advantage outweigh having a single, high-power
>>>> engine?
>>>
>>> of course you can. how much do you want to spend doing it? advantage of
>>> the weight of two engines, two transmissions, and the
>>> control elements? not much. better to go for a single power unit,
>>> single transmission and keep it as simple as possible.
>>
>>
>> Dual drive systems are used quite a bit in industry. It is best to
>> use servo controls with high resolution encoders for feedback for
>> these types of systems.
>
> absolutely! especially on larger equipment where transmission over
> distance is problematic. but on something like a racing car?
> especially a mid-engined one, you're just increasing weight &
> decreasing reliability. but then again, the "cool" factor gets the
> fans excited, so it's great for publicity.

4 - 4000 RPM direct drive servo's on a car frame, each with 200 lbs/ft or
more of torque. Brushless with all digital drives, co-ordinated within 2 or
3 encoder pulses (5K pulses per rev min digital encoders) . No need for
breaks, the drives are regenerative!

I'd pay to see that.

What the hell, half of the specs are right there. With a little money and a
little time.... OK, maybe a LOT of money and time....