Electrical Problem w/ my 89 Honda Accord
 

Hi and thanks in advance for any help,
My problem is my battery is no longer being charged while I drive the
car. I've had the battery tested and it's fine, the alternator has
been tested and it's fine. Could the voltage regulator be bad? I
would be able to at least start the car for a period of ~24 hours if I
drove it for about an hour each day. Now, it won't start at all once I
shut the car off which leads me to believe that the battery is no
longer being charged at all while I'm driving. After I jump the car it
runs great.
Thanks for any help.
-Jason

Re: Electrical Problem w/ my 89 Honda Accord
 

jrquiz@yahoo.com wrote:
> Hi and thanks in advance for any help,
> My problem is my battery is no longer being charged while I drive the
> car. I've had the battery tested and it's fine, the alternator has
> been tested and it's fine. Could the voltage regulator be bad? I
> would be able to at least start the car for a period of ~24 hours if I
> drove it for about an hour each day. Now, it won't start at all once I
> shut the car off which leads me to believe that the battery is no
> longer being charged at all while I'm driving. After I jump the car it
> runs great.
> Thanks for any help.
> -Jason

It may not be related to your battery if the car is not starting but
who told you the car is charging ok?

What sort of voltage do you measure across the battery with the car
running? It should be 14.5 V. Turn the head lights on. The voltage
should not appeciably drop.

Turn the car off but leave the head lights on. The voltage may drop to
about 12.5 volts or so but should not drop appreciably below that
voltage.

If it does drop and the car does not start, my first suspect would be
the battery or the wires to the battery (including ground).

If it does not drop yet the car does not start, it could be starter
related. Perhaps you have a bad connection from the battery to the
engine. See if hooking a booster cable (negative side only -- leave
positive hanging) from the battery (-) to a large hunk of metal on the
engine helps the starting process. If it now starts, you have a bad
contact in your ground.
Also check the wire from the battery (+) to the starter - it could be
that it has corroded contacts.

Remco

Re: Electrical Problem w/ my 89 Honda Accord
 

"Remco" <whybcuz@yahoo.com> wrote
> jrquiz@yahoo.com wrote:
> > Hi and thanks in advance for any help,
> > My problem is my battery is no longer being charged
while I drive the
> > car. I've had the battery tested and it's fine, the
alternator has
> > been tested and it's fine. Could the voltage regulator
be bad? I
> > would be able to at least start the car for a period of
~24 hours if I
> > drove it for about an hour each day. Now, it won't
start at all once I
> > shut the car off which leads me to believe that the
battery is no
> > longer being charged at all while I'm driving. After I
jump the car it
> > runs great.
> > Thanks for any help.
> > -Jason
>
> It may not be related to your battery if the car is not
starting but
> who told you the car is charging ok?
>
> What sort of voltage do you measure across the battery
with the car
> running? It should be 14.5 V. Turn the head lights on. The
voltage
> should not appeciably drop.
>
> Turn the car off but leave the head lights on. The voltage
may drop to
> about 12.5 volts or so but should not drop appreciably
below that
> voltage.
>
> If it does drop and the car does not start, my first
suspect would be
> the battery or the wires to the battery (including
ground).

The above is absolutely where I would start.

Also, how old is the battery, in years and miles?

How many times have you jumped it now?

Jumping does reduce battery life.

A bad battery will reduce the alternator life.

www.autozone.com has a manual specific to your car free
online. It should have directions similar to Remco's for
checking the battery and charging system, which should be
like the following, on page 10, for a 91 Accord.

http://media.honda.co.uk/car/owner/m...ls/AccordManua
l/400/16-52.pdf

Re: Electrical Problem w/ my 89 Honda Accord
 

Thanks again for all the advice...

I measured the voltage across the battery with the car started and it
measures about 15v. With the car turned off it measures about 10v and
just slightly under that when the headlights are turned off. I did
notice some corrosion around the positive terminal so cleaned all of
that up. However, after driving the car around for a bit to get it
good and charged it still won't start when I turn off the engine. I
just get what amounts to a repeated "clicking" noise. Is this the sign
of a bad starter?

Also, I can't verify the age or milage of the battery. However, I have
jump started the car many times (20+) over the last couple of months.

Re: Electrical Problem w/ my 89 Honda Accord
 

<jrquiz@yahoo.com> wrote
> Thanks again for all the advice...
>
> I measured the voltage across the battery with the car
started and it
> measures about 15v. With the car turned off it measures
about 10v

That 'turned off' voltage sucks eggs. Replace this battery.

> Also, I can't verify the age or milage of the battery.
However, I have
> jump started the car many times (20+) over the last couple
of months.

That sucks scrambled eggs. Replace the battery. Report back.

Interstate is a fine brand and may be what Honda is
currently using. My dealer's prices are /very/ competitive
with places like Firestone for Interstate batteries. (I
sense a trend in this direction for all Honda parts, as a
matter of fact. Internet competition may be working!)

IIRC, a few months ago my dealer wanted $65 for an
interstate battery with a five or seven year guarantee. Very
good price for what's said to be a very good battery. (My 91
Civic's latest is an Interstate, for which I paid 83
something *&^% dollars at Firestone 1.5 years ago.)

Re: Electrical Problem w/ my 89 Honda Accord
 

Elle wrote:
> <jrquiz@yahoo.com> wrote
> > Thanks again for all the advice...
> >
> > I measured the voltage across the battery with the car
> started and it
> > measures about 15v. With the car turned off it measures
> about 10v
>
> That 'turned off' voltage sucks eggs. Replace this battery.
>
> > Also, I can't verify the age or milage of the battery.
> However, I have
> > jump started the car many times (20+) over the last couple
> of months.
>
> That sucks scrambled eggs. Replace the battery. Report back.
>
> Interstate is a fine brand and may be what Honda is
> currently using. My dealer's prices are /very/ competitive
> with places like Firestone for Interstate batteries. (I
> sense a trend in this direction for all Honda parts, as a
> matter of fact. Internet competition may be working!)
>
> IIRC, a few months ago my dealer wanted $65 for an
> interstate battery with a five or seven year guarantee. Very
> good price for what's said to be a very good battery. (My 91
> Civic's latest is an Interstate, for which I paid 83
> something *&^% dollars at Firestone 1.5 years ago.)

I agree that the battery looks bad but there is another remote
possibility:

You should have a lot more than 10V on the battery with the car off off
unless something is drawing some major current. That would be almost
hard to believe, but let's make sure:

To alleviate that as a possibility, first put on some safety glasses -
you don't want to get hurt.
You won't get electrocuted or anything, but I am just afraid that if it
indeed draws that much current, it will arc big time. Arcing can cause
hot bits of metal to spark off the connector and you don't want that
hitting your eyes.
Again, this is an unlikely scenario but better safe than sorry.

Tun the car a little while, just enough to slightly charge the battery.

Then shut it off.

Very quickly disconnect your battery and measure the voltage (quickly,
because we want to see if that battery retained a charge). It should be
12V or so. Even a bad battery may show 12V without any load on it.

Reconnect it.

If you see a nice big arc (you'll know what this looks like), an
appreciable amount of current is being drawn. That means something in
your car is not turning off, drawing a lot of current. The battery is
most likely not the primary problem. It may still need to be replaced
after you fix your problem because they do not like to be totally
discharged.

If you don't see an arc, nothing is being drawn so your battery is most
likely bad.

Report back with your findings.

Remco

Re: Electrical Problem w/ my 89 Honda Accord
 

jrquiz@yahoo.com wrote:
> Thanks again for all the advice...
>
> I measured the voltage across the battery with the car started and it
> measures about 15v. With the car turned off it measures about 10v and
> just slightly under that when the headlights are turned off. I did
> notice some corrosion around the positive terminal so cleaned all of
> that up. However, after driving the car around for a bit to get it
> good and charged it still won't start when I turn off the engine. I
> just get what amounts to a repeated "clicking" noise. Is this the sign
> of a bad starter?
>
> Also, I can't verify the age or milage of the battery. However, I have
> jump started the car many times (20+) over the last couple of months.

Btw, in your case that clicking is most likely due to the battery's
voltage being too low.
You turn the key, the relay clicks on, the starter draws current
bringing the voltage even lower causing the relay to unclick. The
current draw drops causing the voltage to rise, the relay clicks, etc,
etc.

Your starter is most likely just fine.

Re: Electrical Problem w/ my 89 Honda Accord
 

Have you ever seen a battery blow up? I have and just in this situation.
With the lack of knowledge shown take it to a mechanic who knows what he is
doing and have it repaired correctly. Battery acid in the face is not
pleasant and pulling a cable while it drawing excessive current will do just
that. Gas is generated and the spark will cause to explode. ....


"Remco" <whybcuz@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1136840565.635611.272090@o13g2000cwo.googlegr oups.com...
> Elle wrote:
>> <jrquiz@yahoo.com> wrote
>> > Thanks again for all the advice...
>> >
>> > I measured the voltage across the battery with the car
>> started and it
>> > measures about 15v. With the car turned off it measures
>> about 10v
>>
>> That 'turned off' voltage sucks eggs. Replace this battery.
>>
>> > Also, I can't verify the age or milage of the battery.
>> However, I have
>> > jump started the car many times (20+) over the last couple
>> of months.
>>
>> That sucks scrambled eggs. Replace the battery. Report back.
>>
>> Interstate is a fine brand and may be what Honda is
>> currently using. My dealer's prices are /very/ competitive
>> with places like Firestone for Interstate batteries. (I
>> sense a trend in this direction for all Honda parts, as a
>> matter of fact. Internet competition may be working!)
>>
>> IIRC, a few months ago my dealer wanted $65 for an
>> interstate battery with a five or seven year guarantee. Very
>> good price for what's said to be a very good battery. (My 91
>> Civic's latest is an Interstate, for which I paid 83
>> something *&^% dollars at Firestone 1.5 years ago.)
>
> I agree that the battery looks bad but there is another remote
> possibility:
>
> You should have a lot more than 10V on the battery with the car off off
> unless something is drawing some major current. That would be almost
> hard to believe, but let's make sure:
>
> To alleviate that as a possibility, first put on some safety glasses -
> you don't want to get hurt.
> You won't get electrocuted or anything, but I am just afraid that if it
> indeed draws that much current, it will arc big time. Arcing can cause
> hot bits of metal to spark off the connector and you don't want that
> hitting your eyes.
> Again, this is an unlikely scenario but better safe than sorry.
>
> Tun the car a little while, just enough to slightly charge the battery.
>
> Then shut it off.
>
> Very quickly disconnect your battery and measure the voltage (quickly,
> because we want to see if that battery retained a charge). It should be
> 12V or so. Even a bad battery may show 12V without any load on it.
>
> Reconnect it.
>
> If you see a nice big arc (you'll know what this looks like), an
> appreciable amount of current is being drawn. That means something in
> your car is not turning off, drawing a lot of current. The battery is
> most likely not the primary problem. It may still need to be replaced
> after you fix your problem because they do not like to be totally
> discharged.
>
> If you don't see an arc, nothing is being drawn so your battery is most
> likely bad.
>
> Report back with your findings.
>
> Remco
>

Re: Electrical Problem w/ my 89 Honda Accord
 

Thanks everyone for the help. I jumped the car and took it over to an
AutoZone. They ran a test and the battery did come up bad this go
around. Previously, I had the battery tested at a Walmart and an
O'Reilly and both times the battery came up fine. But after testing it
myslef today based on advice from here it did seem that the voltage was
low. At any rate, after I put in the new battery it started right up.
However, I've replaced the battery before in this car <never with a new
one> and evnetually it would fail me. So, this battery is brand new
and I will keep an eye on the problem and let you all know if I have
continued problems.

Thanks again for everyone's help. Time now to head back up to college.

-Jason

Re: Electrical Problem w/ my 89 Honda Accord
 

"jrquiz@yahoo.com" <jrquiz@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:1136838659.579895.49210@g14g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com:

> Thanks again for all the advice...
>
> I measured the voltage across the battery with the car started and it
> measures about 15v. With the car turned off it measures about 10v and
> just slightly under that when the headlights are turned off. I did
> notice some corrosion around the positive terminal so cleaned all of
> that up. However, after driving the car around for a bit to get it
> good and charged it still won't start when I turn off the engine. I
> just get what amounts to a repeated "clicking" noise. Is this the sign
> of a bad starter?
>
> Also, I can't verify the age or milage of the battery. However, I have
> jump started the car many times (20+) over the last couple of months.
>
>

Your starter -could- have eroded contacts inside the solenoid.
Some Honda starters solenoids can be replaced,others(Denso) require
replacing the entire starter,or replacing the contacts.
(www.nationsauto.com is where I got the contact parts kit I used on my
Integra Denso starter)

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

Re: Electrical Problem w/ my 89 Honda Accord
 

<jrquiz@yahoo.com> wrote
> Thanks everyone for the help. I jumped the car and took
it over to an
> AutoZone. They ran a test and the battery did come up bad
this go
> around. Previously, I had the battery tested at a Walmart
and an
> O'Reilly and both times the battery came up fine. But
after testing it
> myslef today based on advice from here it did seem that
the voltage was
> low. At any rate, after I put in the new battery it
started right up.
> However, I've replaced the battery before in this car
<never with a new
> one> and evnetually it would fail me. So, this battery is
brand new
> and I will keep an eye on the problem and let you all know
if I have
> continued problems.

I presume the alternator warning light on the dash has never
come on in all this, or you would have mentioned it.

I don't know what you mean by "eventually," but I wouldn't
dismiss the problem being simply your choice of used
batteries and non-OEM ones.

The new battery might do the trick, but I agree you are
right to remain vigilant. You might want to check its
voltage, running w/o headlights, running w/headlights, and
off and monitor this a while. It's a simple enough check
that, while not conclusive, might tell you something.

Also, ISTM all that running the batteries down to low charge
may have taken a toll on the alternator, so be prepared for
that being a problem soon.

You really do want to keep those battery terminals clean.
They're worth checking at least once a month for the
immediate future. I just use baking soda and water. Some
here recommend a certain sealant, whose name or description
I don't remember, too. Ask at Autozone, and they'll probably
know.

Good luck.

Re: Electrical Problem w/ my 89 Honda Accord
 

Woody wrote:
> Have you ever seen a battery blow up? I have and just in this situation.
> With the lack of knowledge shown take it to a mechanic who knows what he is
> doing and have it repaired correctly. Battery acid in the face is not
> pleasant and pulling a cable while it drawing excessive current will do just
> that. Gas is generated and the spark will cause to explode. ....
>

I am merely suggesting disconnecting/reconnecting it. I am not saying
it definitely is a possibility, just that it is a _remote_ possibility.
Disconnecting it is a good thing, just to see what state the battery is
in.



>
> "Remco" <whybcuz@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1136840565.635611.272090@o13g2000cwo.googlegr oups.com...
> > Elle wrote:
> >> <jrquiz@yahoo.com> wrote
> >> > Thanks again for all the advice...
> >> >
> >> > I measured the voltage across the battery with the car
> >> started and it
> >> > measures about 15v. With the car turned off it measures
> >> about 10v
> >>
> >> That 'turned off' voltage sucks eggs. Replace this battery.
> >>
> >> > Also, I can't verify the age or milage of the battery.
> >> However, I have
> >> > jump started the car many times (20+) over the last couple
> >> of months.
> >>
> >> That sucks scrambled eggs. Replace the battery. Report back.
> >>
> >> Interstate is a fine brand and may be what Honda is
> >> currently using. My dealer's prices are /very/ competitive
> >> with places like Firestone for Interstate batteries. (I
> >> sense a trend in this direction for all Honda parts, as a
> >> matter of fact. Internet competition may be working!)
> >>
> >> IIRC, a few months ago my dealer wanted $65 for an
> >> interstate battery with a five or seven year guarantee. Very
> >> good price for what's said to be a very good battery. (My 91
> >> Civic's latest is an Interstate, for which I paid 83
> >> something *&^% dollars at Firestone 1.5 years ago.)
> >
> > I agree that the battery looks bad but there is another remote
> > possibility:
> >
> > You should have a lot more than 10V on the battery with the car off off
> > unless something is drawing some major current. That would be almost
> > hard to believe, but let's make sure:
> >
> > To alleviate that as a possibility, first put on some safety glasses -
> > you don't want to get hurt.
> > You won't get electrocuted or anything, but I am just afraid that if it
> > indeed draws that much current, it will arc big time. Arcing can cause
> > hot bits of metal to spark off the connector and you don't want that
> > hitting your eyes.
> > Again, this is an unlikely scenario but better safe than sorry.
> >
> > Tun the car a little while, just enough to slightly charge the battery.
> >
> > Then shut it off.
> >
> > Very quickly disconnect your battery and measure the voltage (quickly,
> > because we want to see if that battery retained a charge). It should be
> > 12V or so. Even a bad battery may show 12V without any load on it.
> >
> > Reconnect it.
> >
> > If you see a nice big arc (you'll know what this looks like), an
> > appreciable amount of current is being drawn. That means something in
> > your car is not turning off, drawing a lot of current. The battery is
> > most likely not the primary problem. It may still need to be replaced
> > after you fix your problem because they do not like to be totally
> > discharged.
> >
> > If you don't see an arc, nothing is being drawn so your battery is most
> > likely bad.
> >
> > Report back with your findings.
> >
> > Remco
> >

Jumping does reduce [the jumpped car's] battery life.
 

> Date: Mon, Jan 9 2006 8:11 pm
> From: "Elle"

snip

> Jumping does reduce [the jumpped car's] battery life.



Very interesting. Any idea why this would be so?


..

A bad battery will reduce the alternator life
 

> Date: Mon, Jan 9 2006 8:11 pm
> From: "Elle"

snip

> A bad battery will reduce the alternator life.



Can you be more specific?


..

Re: Electrical Problem w/ my 89 Honda Accord
 

> Date: Mon, Jan 9 2006 12:30 pm
> From: "jrquiz@yahoo.com"
>
> Thanks again for all the advice...
>
> I measured the voltage across the battery with the
> car started and it measures about 15v. With the car
> turned off it measures about 10v and just slightly
> under that when the headlights are turned off. I
> did notice some corrosion around the positive
> terminal so cleaned all of that up. However, after
> driving the car around for a bit to get it good and
> charged it still won't start when I turn off the
> engine. I just get what amounts to a repeated
> "clicking" noise.


Elle replied:


> Date: Mon, Jan 9 2006 8:42 pm
> From: "Elle"
>
> > Date: Mon, Jan 9 2006 12:30 pm
> > From: "jrquiz@yahoo.com"
> >
> > Thanks again for all the advice...
> >
> > I measured the voltage across the battery with the
> > car started and it measures about 15v. With the car
> > turned off it measures about 10v
>
> That 'turned off' voltage sucks eggs. Replace this
> battery.



Notice that Elle omits this very revealing information,

> I did notice some corrosion around the positive
> terminal so cleaned all of that up. However, after
> driving the car around for a bit to get it good and
> charged it still won't start when I turn off the
> engine. I just get what amounts to a repeated
> "clicking" noise.

The "10 V" that cause sucking eggs are in disagreement
with a battery test, so the important question is,
"Where exactly was the voltage measured?" The inquirer,
we can tell, is ignorant about matters electricity. He
needs help.

Add to this the the other information the inquirer had
provided, like both the battery and the alternator
tested fine, and the proper diagnosis is "weak
connection." The probability is very high that cleaning
the terminal and the clamp (this involves taking off
the clamp and, if necessary, removing corrosion from
the contact surfaces) would have solved the problem,
and that a new battery was unneeded.

It is disturbing that experts find it easier to suggest
replacing parts instead of using their brains to find
the causes of the problems.

To make connection problems less likely, particularly
at the battery terminals, apply vaseline liberally. And
make sure that the clamp grips the terminal tightly -
if it is too large thin wires from a multistrand cable
can be inserted between terminal and clamp.


..