Re: Foreign cars pass Big 3
On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 13:02:28 GMT, "Jeff" <jeff@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >"Bassplayer12" <perettij@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message >news:yfIxg.17744$pu3.351347@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca... >> snip >> >>> While the power shift has been long in the making, it's nonetheless a >>> disheartening sign that Detroit's auto industry is losing the battle for >>> the hearts and wallets of American car buyers. >> >> Does anybody know how much it costs Toyota and Honda to build a car >> compared to >> the Big 3? >> What are the benefits and salaries paid to the employees? >> If there's a difference, the day may come when the Big 3 are going to >> demand concessions >> from them to save the companies and their jobs. > >It's already here. The companies are demanding concessions involved health >care. Soon they will involve pensions. The Big 2 and the American part of >the Dialmer-Chrysler and many of their suppliers have pension obligations >that have not yet been met. IN most of Europe, the government takes care of >the pensions. And health care too. Of course, it has to be paid for by someone either way. In Europe and Japan, health care costs are a fraction of those in the US and everyone is covered. |
Re: Foreign cars pass Big 3
On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 13:02:28 GMT, "Jeff" <jeff@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >"Bassplayer12" <perettij@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message >news:yfIxg.17744$pu3.351347@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca... >> snip >> >>> While the power shift has been long in the making, it's nonetheless a >>> disheartening sign that Detroit's auto industry is losing the battle for >>> the hearts and wallets of American car buyers. >> >> Does anybody know how much it costs Toyota and Honda to build a car >> compared to >> the Big 3? >> What are the benefits and salaries paid to the employees? >> If there's a difference, the day may come when the Big 3 are going to >> demand concessions >> from them to save the companies and their jobs. > >It's already here. The companies are demanding concessions involved health >care. Soon they will involve pensions. The Big 2 and the American part of >the Dialmer-Chrysler and many of their suppliers have pension obligations >that have not yet been met. IN most of Europe, the government takes care of >the pensions. And health care too. Of course, it has to be paid for by someone either way. In Europe and Japan, health care costs are a fraction of those in the US and everyone is covered. |
Re: Foreign cars pass Big 3
On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 13:02:28 GMT, "Jeff" <jeff@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >"Bassplayer12" <perettij@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message >news:yfIxg.17744$pu3.351347@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca... >> snip >> >>> While the power shift has been long in the making, it's nonetheless a >>> disheartening sign that Detroit's auto industry is losing the battle for >>> the hearts and wallets of American car buyers. >> >> Does anybody know how much it costs Toyota and Honda to build a car >> compared to >> the Big 3? >> What are the benefits and salaries paid to the employees? >> If there's a difference, the day may come when the Big 3 are going to >> demand concessions >> from them to save the companies and their jobs. > >It's already here. The companies are demanding concessions involved health >care. Soon they will involve pensions. The Big 2 and the American part of >the Dialmer-Chrysler and many of their suppliers have pension obligations >that have not yet been met. IN most of Europe, the government takes care of >the pensions. And health care too. Of course, it has to be paid for by someone either way. In Europe and Japan, health care costs are a fraction of those in the US and everyone is covered. |
Re: Foreign cars pass Big 3
On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 13:02:28 GMT, "Jeff" <jeff@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >"Bassplayer12" <perettij@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message >news:yfIxg.17744$pu3.351347@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca... >> snip >> >>> While the power shift has been long in the making, it's nonetheless a >>> disheartening sign that Detroit's auto industry is losing the battle for >>> the hearts and wallets of American car buyers. >> >> Does anybody know how much it costs Toyota and Honda to build a car >> compared to >> the Big 3? >> What are the benefits and salaries paid to the employees? >> If there's a difference, the day may come when the Big 3 are going to >> demand concessions >> from them to save the companies and their jobs. > >It's already here. The companies are demanding concessions involved health >care. Soon they will involve pensions. The Big 2 and the American part of >the Dialmer-Chrysler and many of their suppliers have pension obligations >that have not yet been met. IN most of Europe, the government takes care of >the pensions. And health care too. Of course, it has to be paid for by someone either way. In Europe and Japan, health care costs are a fraction of those in the US and everyone is covered. |
Re: Foreign cars pass Big 3
Jeff wrote:
> "Rev. Tom Wenndt" <trwenndt@grics.net> wrote in message > news:ea7tgn02mst@enews2.newsguy.com... >> Jeff said: "You also need accountants and other business types. Both car >> types and bean counters are important."...... >> >> I would agree with that assessment overall. But one of Detroit's HUGE >> problems is that the bean counters always got the final word. > > Whose fault is that? Not the bean counters. > > Who was stupid enough to give the bean counters the final word? > > Jeff > > Well, the CEO of GM came from the ranks of bean counters, not car guys. |
Re: Foreign cars pass Big 3
Jeff wrote:
> "Rev. Tom Wenndt" <trwenndt@grics.net> wrote in message > news:ea7tgn02mst@enews2.newsguy.com... >> Jeff said: "You also need accountants and other business types. Both car >> types and bean counters are important."...... >> >> I would agree with that assessment overall. But one of Detroit's HUGE >> problems is that the bean counters always got the final word. > > Whose fault is that? Not the bean counters. > > Who was stupid enough to give the bean counters the final word? > > Jeff > > Well, the CEO of GM came from the ranks of bean counters, not car guys. |
Re: Foreign cars pass Big 3
Jeff wrote:
> "Rev. Tom Wenndt" <trwenndt@grics.net> wrote in message > news:ea7tgn02mst@enews2.newsguy.com... >> Jeff said: "You also need accountants and other business types. Both car >> types and bean counters are important."...... >> >> I would agree with that assessment overall. But one of Detroit's HUGE >> problems is that the bean counters always got the final word. > > Whose fault is that? Not the bean counters. > > Who was stupid enough to give the bean counters the final word? > > Jeff > > Well, the CEO of GM came from the ranks of bean counters, not car guys. |
Re: Foreign cars pass Big 3
Jeff wrote:
> "Rev. Tom Wenndt" <trwenndt@grics.net> wrote in message > news:ea7tgn02mst@enews2.newsguy.com... >> Jeff said: "You also need accountants and other business types. Both car >> types and bean counters are important."...... >> >> I would agree with that assessment overall. But one of Detroit's HUGE >> problems is that the bean counters always got the final word. > > Whose fault is that? Not the bean counters. > > Who was stupid enough to give the bean counters the final word? > > Jeff > > Well, the CEO of GM came from the ranks of bean counters, not car guys. |
Re: Foreign cars pass Big 3
On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 11:22:06 GMT, "Bassplayer12"
<perettij@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote: >snip > >> While the power shift has been long in the making, it's nonetheless a >> disheartening sign that Detroit's auto industry is losing the battle for >> the hearts and wallets of American car buyers. > >Does anybody know how much it costs Toyota and Honda to build a car compared >to >the Big 3? >What are the benefits and salaries paid to the employees? >If there's a difference, the day may come when the Big 3 are going to demand >concessions >from them to save the companies and their jobs. The CEO of Ford made $22 million in 2004. the CEO of GM made $10 million. I don't think the CEOs of Honda or Toyota are anywhere near that. You will excuse me if I question who is being overcompensated at the domestic companies. |
Re: Foreign cars pass Big 3
On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 11:22:06 GMT, "Bassplayer12"
<perettij@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote: >snip > >> While the power shift has been long in the making, it's nonetheless a >> disheartening sign that Detroit's auto industry is losing the battle for >> the hearts and wallets of American car buyers. > >Does anybody know how much it costs Toyota and Honda to build a car compared >to >the Big 3? >What are the benefits and salaries paid to the employees? >If there's a difference, the day may come when the Big 3 are going to demand >concessions >from them to save the companies and their jobs. The CEO of Ford made $22 million in 2004. the CEO of GM made $10 million. I don't think the CEOs of Honda or Toyota are anywhere near that. You will excuse me if I question who is being overcompensated at the domestic companies. |
Re: Foreign cars pass Big 3
On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 11:22:06 GMT, "Bassplayer12"
<perettij@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote: >snip > >> While the power shift has been long in the making, it's nonetheless a >> disheartening sign that Detroit's auto industry is losing the battle for >> the hearts and wallets of American car buyers. > >Does anybody know how much it costs Toyota and Honda to build a car compared >to >the Big 3? >What are the benefits and salaries paid to the employees? >If there's a difference, the day may come when the Big 3 are going to demand >concessions >from them to save the companies and their jobs. The CEO of Ford made $22 million in 2004. the CEO of GM made $10 million. I don't think the CEOs of Honda or Toyota are anywhere near that. You will excuse me if I question who is being overcompensated at the domestic companies. |
Re: Foreign cars pass Big 3
On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 11:22:06 GMT, "Bassplayer12"
<perettij@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote: >snip > >> While the power shift has been long in the making, it's nonetheless a >> disheartening sign that Detroit's auto industry is losing the battle for >> the hearts and wallets of American car buyers. > >Does anybody know how much it costs Toyota and Honda to build a car compared >to >the Big 3? >What are the benefits and salaries paid to the employees? >If there's a difference, the day may come when the Big 3 are going to demand >concessions >from them to save the companies and their jobs. The CEO of Ford made $22 million in 2004. the CEO of GM made $10 million. I don't think the CEOs of Honda or Toyota are anywhere near that. You will excuse me if I question who is being overcompensated at the domestic companies. |
Re: Foreign cars pass Big 3
"Gordon McGrew" <RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote in message news:8a5gc2h1b73qck3o095spum42i0o405oph@4ax.com... > > The CEO of Ford made $22 million in 2004. the CEO of GM made $10 > million. I don't think the CEOs of Honda or Toyota are anywhere near > that. You will excuse me if I question who is being overcompensated > at the domestic companies. > Don't get me wrong, I'm very much a capitalist, but I do believe you've hit on something here Gordon that hasn't been hashed about much in this discussion. It's not just an automotive industry issue either. It's a cultural issue that is hurting the corporate world across industry segments. Executive compensation has gotten out of hand and the plans are too focused on factors that provide short sighted "good" for the shareholders. The long term well being of the company, the well being of the employees, concern and commitment to the employees, all have fallen out of favor. Customer satisfaction, which ensures these things has become a point issue which is addressed in response to problems instead of a goal which drives the production process of the company. Cost is what drives the company. The CEO of today is compelled to make cost cutting his number one objective and his financial success is directly tied to that effort. While a valid management concern, cost containment is only one part of a long term success formula. For short term objectives, it is usually the driving element of a formula. But - the shareholders like their dividends, the CEO has his own ego driver that wants to be recognized among his peers for having lead a successful company, and the stock market has too much influence on business today. It results in executive packages that encourage and reward short sighted business practices. Good for the executive pay, not so good for every thing else in the business. -- -Mike- mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net |
Re: Foreign cars pass Big 3
"Gordon McGrew" <RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote in message news:8a5gc2h1b73qck3o095spum42i0o405oph@4ax.com... > > The CEO of Ford made $22 million in 2004. the CEO of GM made $10 > million. I don't think the CEOs of Honda or Toyota are anywhere near > that. You will excuse me if I question who is being overcompensated > at the domestic companies. > Don't get me wrong, I'm very much a capitalist, but I do believe you've hit on something here Gordon that hasn't been hashed about much in this discussion. It's not just an automotive industry issue either. It's a cultural issue that is hurting the corporate world across industry segments. Executive compensation has gotten out of hand and the plans are too focused on factors that provide short sighted "good" for the shareholders. The long term well being of the company, the well being of the employees, concern and commitment to the employees, all have fallen out of favor. Customer satisfaction, which ensures these things has become a point issue which is addressed in response to problems instead of a goal which drives the production process of the company. Cost is what drives the company. The CEO of today is compelled to make cost cutting his number one objective and his financial success is directly tied to that effort. While a valid management concern, cost containment is only one part of a long term success formula. For short term objectives, it is usually the driving element of a formula. But - the shareholders like their dividends, the CEO has his own ego driver that wants to be recognized among his peers for having lead a successful company, and the stock market has too much influence on business today. It results in executive packages that encourage and reward short sighted business practices. Good for the executive pay, not so good for every thing else in the business. -- -Mike- mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net |
Re: Foreign cars pass Big 3
"Gordon McGrew" <RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote in message news:8a5gc2h1b73qck3o095spum42i0o405oph@4ax.com... > > The CEO of Ford made $22 million in 2004. the CEO of GM made $10 > million. I don't think the CEOs of Honda or Toyota are anywhere near > that. You will excuse me if I question who is being overcompensated > at the domestic companies. > Don't get me wrong, I'm very much a capitalist, but I do believe you've hit on something here Gordon that hasn't been hashed about much in this discussion. It's not just an automotive industry issue either. It's a cultural issue that is hurting the corporate world across industry segments. Executive compensation has gotten out of hand and the plans are too focused on factors that provide short sighted "good" for the shareholders. The long term well being of the company, the well being of the employees, concern and commitment to the employees, all have fallen out of favor. Customer satisfaction, which ensures these things has become a point issue which is addressed in response to problems instead of a goal which drives the production process of the company. Cost is what drives the company. The CEO of today is compelled to make cost cutting his number one objective and his financial success is directly tied to that effort. While a valid management concern, cost containment is only one part of a long term success formula. For short term objectives, it is usually the driving element of a formula. But - the shareholders like their dividends, the CEO has his own ego driver that wants to be recognized among his peers for having lead a successful company, and the stock market has too much influence on business today. It results in executive packages that encourage and reward short sighted business practices. Good for the executive pay, not so good for every thing else in the business. -- -Mike- mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net |
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