Fuel economy loss
 

I have a 98 civic si and I was getting 525km per 40 litres in the
city.
Over last year the fuel usage has gone up and I can't figure out why.
Currently I am getting only about 450km per 40 litres in the city.
My idle is fine and the engine does not seem to run roughly.
I have noticed that around 2500 rpm I used to get a little surge of
power and then again at 3100 rpm.
As of the last while the surge of power at 2500 rpm is intermitent. I
would suggest that the power seems to go away with the engine getting
to running temperature however I have no proof just how it seems to
me.

Anyone have any ideas of what might be the difficulty.
I can tell you I have never replaced the PCV valve in the last 100,
000 km. Oh and the car currently has 190, 000 km on it.

Thanks for any help,

Brian

Re: Fuel economy loss
 

See the tips and discussion at
http://home.earthlink.net/~honda.lioness/id11.html

<nylore@canoemail.com> wrote in message
news:1187725769.159662.157790@q3g2000prf.googlegro ups.com...
>I have a 98 civic si and I was getting 525km per 40 litres
>in the
> city.
> Over last year the fuel usage has gone up and I can't
> figure out why.
> Currently I am getting only about 450km per 40 litres in
> the city.
> My idle is fine and the engine does not seem to run
> roughly.
> I have noticed that around 2500 rpm I used to get a little
> surge of
> power and then again at 3100 rpm.
> As of the last while the surge of power at 2500 rpm is
> intermitent. I
> would suggest that the power seems to go away with the
> engine getting
> to running temperature however I have no proof just how it
> seems to
> me.
>
> Anyone have any ideas of what might be the difficulty.
> I can tell you I have never replaced the PCV valve in the
> last 100,
> 000 km. Oh and the car currently has 190, 000 km on
> it.
>
> Thanks for any help,
>
> Brian
>

Re: Fuel economy loss
 

See the tips and discussion at
http://home.earthlink.net/~honda.lioness/id11.html

<nylore@canoemail.com> wrote in message
news:1187725769.159662.157790@q3g2000prf.googlegro ups.com...
>I have a 98 civic si and I was getting 525km per 40 litres
>in the
> city.
> Over last year the fuel usage has gone up and I can't
> figure out why.
> Currently I am getting only about 450km per 40 litres in
> the city.
> My idle is fine and the engine does not seem to run
> roughly.
> I have noticed that around 2500 rpm I used to get a little
> surge of
> power and then again at 3100 rpm.
> As of the last while the surge of power at 2500 rpm is
> intermitent. I
> would suggest that the power seems to go away with the
> engine getting
> to running temperature however I have no proof just how it
> seems to
> me.
>
> Anyone have any ideas of what might be the difficulty.
> I can tell you I have never replaced the PCV valve in the
> last 100,
> 000 km. Oh and the car currently has 190, 000 km on
> it.
>
> Thanks for any help,
>
> Brian
>

Re: Fuel economy loss
 

See the tips and discussion at
http://home.earthlink.net/~honda.lioness/id11.html

<nylore@canoemail.com> wrote in message
news:1187725769.159662.157790@q3g2000prf.googlegro ups.com...
>I have a 98 civic si and I was getting 525km per 40 litres
>in the
> city.
> Over last year the fuel usage has gone up and I can't
> figure out why.
> Currently I am getting only about 450km per 40 litres in
> the city.
> My idle is fine and the engine does not seem to run
> roughly.
> I have noticed that around 2500 rpm I used to get a little
> surge of
> power and then again at 3100 rpm.
> As of the last while the surge of power at 2500 rpm is
> intermitent. I
> would suggest that the power seems to go away with the
> engine getting
> to running temperature however I have no proof just how it
> seems to
> me.
>
> Anyone have any ideas of what might be the difficulty.
> I can tell you I have never replaced the PCV valve in the
> last 100,
> 000 km. Oh and the car currently has 190, 000 km on
> it.
>
> Thanks for any help,
>
> Brian
>

Re: Fuel economy loss
 

On Aug 21, 3:49 pm, nyl...@canoemail.com wrote:
> I have a 98 civic si and I was getting 525km per 40 litres in the
> city.
> Over last year the fuel usage has gone up and I can't figure out why.
> Currently I am getting only about 450km per 40 litres in the city.
> My idle is fine and the engine does not seem to run roughly.
> I have noticed that around 2500 rpm I used to get a little surge of
> power and then again at 3100 rpm.
> As of the last while the surge of power at 2500 rpm is intermitent. I
> would suggest that the power seems to go away with the engine getting
> to running temperature however I have no proof just how it seems to
> me.
>
> Anyone have any ideas of what might be the difficulty.
> I can tell you I have never replaced the PCV valve in the last 100,
> 000 km. Oh and the car currently has 190, 000 km on it.
>
> Thanks for any help,
>
> Brian

Well, there are many factors.
1. Your cylinder compression may not be that good any more due to
higher KM.
- when the car warms up the oil viscosity goes down and because
rings don't seal as good as when the car was new, there is power loss.
Notice that good pickup just before the engine has completely warmed
up.
2. The transmission is not as responsive as it used to be i.e. it
switches to longer gears much sooner. So when you are going 60KM per
hour in the 4th or 5th gear car feels lazy, and takes a while to
upshift

I am not sure what you mean by intermittent. Sounds like ignition
problem, maybe spark plug problem, contaminated fuel delivery system,
injectors etc.

Does the engine run quietly or can you hear a lot of different
mechanical noises?

Dan.

Re: Fuel economy loss
 

On Aug 21, 3:49 pm, nyl...@canoemail.com wrote:
> I have a 98 civic si and I was getting 525km per 40 litres in the
> city.
> Over last year the fuel usage has gone up and I can't figure out why.
> Currently I am getting only about 450km per 40 litres in the city.
> My idle is fine and the engine does not seem to run roughly.
> I have noticed that around 2500 rpm I used to get a little surge of
> power and then again at 3100 rpm.
> As of the last while the surge of power at 2500 rpm is intermitent. I
> would suggest that the power seems to go away with the engine getting
> to running temperature however I have no proof just how it seems to
> me.
>
> Anyone have any ideas of what might be the difficulty.
> I can tell you I have never replaced the PCV valve in the last 100,
> 000 km. Oh and the car currently has 190, 000 km on it.
>
> Thanks for any help,
>
> Brian

Well, there are many factors.
1. Your cylinder compression may not be that good any more due to
higher KM.
- when the car warms up the oil viscosity goes down and because
rings don't seal as good as when the car was new, there is power loss.
Notice that good pickup just before the engine has completely warmed
up.
2. The transmission is not as responsive as it used to be i.e. it
switches to longer gears much sooner. So when you are going 60KM per
hour in the 4th or 5th gear car feels lazy, and takes a while to
upshift

I am not sure what you mean by intermittent. Sounds like ignition
problem, maybe spark plug problem, contaminated fuel delivery system,
injectors etc.

Does the engine run quietly or can you hear a lot of different
mechanical noises?

Dan.

Re: Fuel economy loss
 

On Aug 21, 3:49 pm, nyl...@canoemail.com wrote:
> I have a 98 civic si and I was getting 525km per 40 litres in the
> city.
> Over last year the fuel usage has gone up and I can't figure out why.
> Currently I am getting only about 450km per 40 litres in the city.
> My idle is fine and the engine does not seem to run roughly.
> I have noticed that around 2500 rpm I used to get a little surge of
> power and then again at 3100 rpm.
> As of the last while the surge of power at 2500 rpm is intermitent. I
> would suggest that the power seems to go away with the engine getting
> to running temperature however I have no proof just how it seems to
> me.
>
> Anyone have any ideas of what might be the difficulty.
> I can tell you I have never replaced the PCV valve in the last 100,
> 000 km. Oh and the car currently has 190, 000 km on it.
>
> Thanks for any help,
>
> Brian

Well, there are many factors.
1. Your cylinder compression may not be that good any more due to
higher KM.
- when the car warms up the oil viscosity goes down and because
rings don't seal as good as when the car was new, there is power loss.
Notice that good pickup just before the engine has completely warmed
up.
2. The transmission is not as responsive as it used to be i.e. it
switches to longer gears much sooner. So when you are going 60KM per
hour in the 4th or 5th gear car feels lazy, and takes a while to
upshift

I am not sure what you mean by intermittent. Sounds like ignition
problem, maybe spark plug problem, contaminated fuel delivery system,
injectors etc.

Does the engine run quietly or can you hear a lot of different
mechanical noises?

Dan.

Re: Fuel economy loss
 

On Aug 22, 11:55 am, highkm <ic...@mac.com> wrote:
> On Aug 21, 3:49 pm, nyl...@canoemail.com wrote:
>
>
>
> > I have a 98 civic si and I was getting 525km per 40 litres in the
> > city.
> > Over last year the fuel usage has gone up and I can't figure out why.
> > Currently I am getting only about 450km per 40 litres in the city.
> > My idle is fine and the engine does not seem to run roughly.
> > I have noticed that around 2500 rpm I used to get a little surge of
> > power and then again at 3100 rpm.
> > As of the last while the surge of power at 2500 rpm is intermitent. I
> > would suggest that the power seems to go away with the engine getting
> > to running temperature however I have no proof just how it seems to
> > me.
>
> > Anyone have any ideas of what might be the difficulty.
> > I can tell you I have never replaced the PCV valve in the last 100,
> > 000 km. Oh and the car currently has 190, 000 km on it.
>
> > Thanks for any help,
>
> > Brian
>
> Well, there are many factors.
> 1. Your cylinder compression may not be that good any more due to
> higher KM.
> - when the car warms up the oil viscosity goes down and because
> rings don't seal as good as when the car was new, there is power loss.
> Notice that good pickup just before the engine has completely warmed
> up.
> 2. The transmission is not as responsive as it used to be i.e. it
> switches to longer gears much sooner. So when you are going 60KM per
> hour in the 4th or 5th gear car feels lazy, and takes a while to
> upshift
>
> I am not sure what you mean by intermittent. Sounds like ignition
> problem, maybe spark plug problem, contaminated fuel delivery system,
> injectors etc.
>
> Does the engine run quietly or can you hear a lot of different
> mechanical noises?
>
> Dan.

First off thanks for the post Dan,

Sorry I forgot to mention it is a standard.

The car is quiet except for a slight squeak when there is high
humidity. What I mean by intermittent is that sometime when I am
driving and I get to the 2500 rpm point I feel the little power surge
and then sometimes I don't. Usually once the car is up to running
temperature I find that surge of power is no longer there.

Any ideas? I can definitely look into the compression of each
cylinder. What does everyone recommend for cleaning out fuel
injection systems?

Re: Fuel economy loss
 

On Aug 22, 11:55 am, highkm <ic...@mac.com> wrote:
> On Aug 21, 3:49 pm, nyl...@canoemail.com wrote:
>
>
>
> > I have a 98 civic si and I was getting 525km per 40 litres in the
> > city.
> > Over last year the fuel usage has gone up and I can't figure out why.
> > Currently I am getting only about 450km per 40 litres in the city.
> > My idle is fine and the engine does not seem to run roughly.
> > I have noticed that around 2500 rpm I used to get a little surge of
> > power and then again at 3100 rpm.
> > As of the last while the surge of power at 2500 rpm is intermitent. I
> > would suggest that the power seems to go away with the engine getting
> > to running temperature however I have no proof just how it seems to
> > me.
>
> > Anyone have any ideas of what might be the difficulty.
> > I can tell you I have never replaced the PCV valve in the last 100,
> > 000 km. Oh and the car currently has 190, 000 km on it.
>
> > Thanks for any help,
>
> > Brian
>
> Well, there are many factors.
> 1. Your cylinder compression may not be that good any more due to
> higher KM.
> - when the car warms up the oil viscosity goes down and because
> rings don't seal as good as when the car was new, there is power loss.
> Notice that good pickup just before the engine has completely warmed
> up.
> 2. The transmission is not as responsive as it used to be i.e. it
> switches to longer gears much sooner. So when you are going 60KM per
> hour in the 4th or 5th gear car feels lazy, and takes a while to
> upshift
>
> I am not sure what you mean by intermittent. Sounds like ignition
> problem, maybe spark plug problem, contaminated fuel delivery system,
> injectors etc.
>
> Does the engine run quietly or can you hear a lot of different
> mechanical noises?
>
> Dan.

First off thanks for the post Dan,

Sorry I forgot to mention it is a standard.

The car is quiet except for a slight squeak when there is high
humidity. What I mean by intermittent is that sometime when I am
driving and I get to the 2500 rpm point I feel the little power surge
and then sometimes I don't. Usually once the car is up to running
temperature I find that surge of power is no longer there.

Any ideas? I can definitely look into the compression of each
cylinder. What does everyone recommend for cleaning out fuel
injection systems?

Re: Fuel economy loss
 

On Aug 22, 11:55 am, highkm <ic...@mac.com> wrote:
> On Aug 21, 3:49 pm, nyl...@canoemail.com wrote:
>
>
>
> > I have a 98 civic si and I was getting 525km per 40 litres in the
> > city.
> > Over last year the fuel usage has gone up and I can't figure out why.
> > Currently I am getting only about 450km per 40 litres in the city.
> > My idle is fine and the engine does not seem to run roughly.
> > I have noticed that around 2500 rpm I used to get a little surge of
> > power and then again at 3100 rpm.
> > As of the last while the surge of power at 2500 rpm is intermitent. I
> > would suggest that the power seems to go away with the engine getting
> > to running temperature however I have no proof just how it seems to
> > me.
>
> > Anyone have any ideas of what might be the difficulty.
> > I can tell you I have never replaced the PCV valve in the last 100,
> > 000 km. Oh and the car currently has 190, 000 km on it.
>
> > Thanks for any help,
>
> > Brian
>
> Well, there are many factors.
> 1. Your cylinder compression may not be that good any more due to
> higher KM.
> - when the car warms up the oil viscosity goes down and because
> rings don't seal as good as when the car was new, there is power loss.
> Notice that good pickup just before the engine has completely warmed
> up.
> 2. The transmission is not as responsive as it used to be i.e. it
> switches to longer gears much sooner. So when you are going 60KM per
> hour in the 4th or 5th gear car feels lazy, and takes a while to
> upshift
>
> I am not sure what you mean by intermittent. Sounds like ignition
> problem, maybe spark plug problem, contaminated fuel delivery system,
> injectors etc.
>
> Does the engine run quietly or can you hear a lot of different
> mechanical noises?
>
> Dan.

First off thanks for the post Dan,

Sorry I forgot to mention it is a standard.

The car is quiet except for a slight squeak when there is high
humidity. What I mean by intermittent is that sometime when I am
driving and I get to the 2500 rpm point I feel the little power surge
and then sometimes I don't. Usually once the car is up to running
temperature I find that surge of power is no longer there.

Any ideas? I can definitely look into the compression of each
cylinder. What does everyone recommend for cleaning out fuel
injection systems?

Re: Fuel economy loss
 

Compression tests are normally done when the engine is cold.

I did a test on my 98 civic (not a vtec) about a year ago, It had 250000kms
on it. I got 190lbs of compression (+/- 4-6 lbs) on all cylinders. That is
indeed the factory compression.

However, to get a better picture of the condition of the rings, how well they
are sealed, as well as the valves and how well they are sealed, you need to
do a leakdown test. Any competent honda mechanic should be able to help you
with this. Then you can determine whether the problems you are having are
valve related or cylinder/piston related.

Its a special tool that you plug into the spark plug hole on a cylinder with
both valves closed. You then run compressed air through the tool, and it has
a scale on it to tell if the level of leakage is acceptable (using Red-Yellow-
Green criteria with an actually CFM rating to quantify the level of leakage).
Also, you can tell where the leakage is occuring... if the air is leaking out
of the intake, it means your intake valves are not seated properly. Out of
the exhaust means exhaust valves. Anywhere else, probably means piston rings.


I did perform this test on my 93 Nissan Altima before I bought it from my
brother. It leaked like a sieve through the intake, and the highest
compression I could get out of any cylinder was about 85lbs. Kinda funny too,
because the car actually seemed to be running quite well. I poured some
Lucus Oil Upper cylinder cleaner into the fuel and drove the *(&^ out of it
for about a week, and performed the same test. Now I have 160lb compression.

I have not performed the leakdown test on my civic as yet.

So you can try the Lucas Oil stuff (available at your local canadian tire or
partsource, I assume you are in Canada if you are talking KMs), or try to
find Chevron Techron fuel injector cleaner. Many people on this group have
had great success with that product.

As far as fuel economy on my civic, normally I get about 450-500kms on 40L of
fuel, mostly highway driving. Now have 282000kms on the motor. (its a 5 spd
too). Keep in mind that mine is not vtec though, and that does make a
difference (vtecs use more, generally speaking)

t

Nylore wrote:
>> On Aug 21, 3:49 pm, nyl...@canoemail.com wrote:
>>
>[quoted text clipped - 38 lines]
>>
>> Dan.
>
>First off thanks for the post Dan,
>
>Sorry I forgot to mention it is a standard.
>
>The car is quiet except for a slight squeak when there is high
>humidity. What I mean by intermittent is that sometime when I am
>driving and I get to the 2500 rpm point I feel the little power surge
>and then sometimes I don't. Usually once the car is up to running
>temperature I find that surge of power is no longer there.
>
>Any ideas? I can definitely look into the compression of each
>cylinder. What does everyone recommend for cleaning out fuel
>injection systems?

--
Message posted via http://www.carkb.com

Re: Fuel economy loss
 

Compression tests are normally done when the engine is cold.

I did a test on my 98 civic (not a vtec) about a year ago, It had 250000kms
on it. I got 190lbs of compression (+/- 4-6 lbs) on all cylinders. That is
indeed the factory compression.

However, to get a better picture of the condition of the rings, how well they
are sealed, as well as the valves and how well they are sealed, you need to
do a leakdown test. Any competent honda mechanic should be able to help you
with this. Then you can determine whether the problems you are having are
valve related or cylinder/piston related.

Its a special tool that you plug into the spark plug hole on a cylinder with
both valves closed. You then run compressed air through the tool, and it has
a scale on it to tell if the level of leakage is acceptable (using Red-Yellow-
Green criteria with an actually CFM rating to quantify the level of leakage).
Also, you can tell where the leakage is occuring... if the air is leaking out
of the intake, it means your intake valves are not seated properly. Out of
the exhaust means exhaust valves. Anywhere else, probably means piston rings.


I did perform this test on my 93 Nissan Altima before I bought it from my
brother. It leaked like a sieve through the intake, and the highest
compression I could get out of any cylinder was about 85lbs. Kinda funny too,
because the car actually seemed to be running quite well. I poured some
Lucus Oil Upper cylinder cleaner into the fuel and drove the *(&^ out of it
for about a week, and performed the same test. Now I have 160lb compression.

I have not performed the leakdown test on my civic as yet.

So you can try the Lucas Oil stuff (available at your local canadian tire or
partsource, I assume you are in Canada if you are talking KMs), or try to
find Chevron Techron fuel injector cleaner. Many people on this group have
had great success with that product.

As far as fuel economy on my civic, normally I get about 450-500kms on 40L of
fuel, mostly highway driving. Now have 282000kms on the motor. (its a 5 spd
too). Keep in mind that mine is not vtec though, and that does make a
difference (vtecs use more, generally speaking)

t

Nylore wrote:
>> On Aug 21, 3:49 pm, nyl...@canoemail.com wrote:
>>
>[quoted text clipped - 38 lines]
>>
>> Dan.
>
>First off thanks for the post Dan,
>
>Sorry I forgot to mention it is a standard.
>
>The car is quiet except for a slight squeak when there is high
>humidity. What I mean by intermittent is that sometime when I am
>driving and I get to the 2500 rpm point I feel the little power surge
>and then sometimes I don't. Usually once the car is up to running
>temperature I find that surge of power is no longer there.
>
>Any ideas? I can definitely look into the compression of each
>cylinder. What does everyone recommend for cleaning out fuel
>injection systems?

--
Message posted via http://www.carkb.com

Re: Fuel economy loss
 

Compression tests are normally done when the engine is cold.

I did a test on my 98 civic (not a vtec) about a year ago, It had 250000kms
on it. I got 190lbs of compression (+/- 4-6 lbs) on all cylinders. That is
indeed the factory compression.

However, to get a better picture of the condition of the rings, how well they
are sealed, as well as the valves and how well they are sealed, you need to
do a leakdown test. Any competent honda mechanic should be able to help you
with this. Then you can determine whether the problems you are having are
valve related or cylinder/piston related.

Its a special tool that you plug into the spark plug hole on a cylinder with
both valves closed. You then run compressed air through the tool, and it has
a scale on it to tell if the level of leakage is acceptable (using Red-Yellow-
Green criteria with an actually CFM rating to quantify the level of leakage).
Also, you can tell where the leakage is occuring... if the air is leaking out
of the intake, it means your intake valves are not seated properly. Out of
the exhaust means exhaust valves. Anywhere else, probably means piston rings.


I did perform this test on my 93 Nissan Altima before I bought it from my
brother. It leaked like a sieve through the intake, and the highest
compression I could get out of any cylinder was about 85lbs. Kinda funny too,
because the car actually seemed to be running quite well. I poured some
Lucus Oil Upper cylinder cleaner into the fuel and drove the *(&^ out of it
for about a week, and performed the same test. Now I have 160lb compression.

I have not performed the leakdown test on my civic as yet.

So you can try the Lucas Oil stuff (available at your local canadian tire or
partsource, I assume you are in Canada if you are talking KMs), or try to
find Chevron Techron fuel injector cleaner. Many people on this group have
had great success with that product.

As far as fuel economy on my civic, normally I get about 450-500kms on 40L of
fuel, mostly highway driving. Now have 282000kms on the motor. (its a 5 spd
too). Keep in mind that mine is not vtec though, and that does make a
difference (vtecs use more, generally speaking)

t

Nylore wrote:
>> On Aug 21, 3:49 pm, nyl...@canoemail.com wrote:
>>
>[quoted text clipped - 38 lines]
>>
>> Dan.
>
>First off thanks for the post Dan,
>
>Sorry I forgot to mention it is a standard.
>
>The car is quiet except for a slight squeak when there is high
>humidity. What I mean by intermittent is that sometime when I am
>driving and I get to the 2500 rpm point I feel the little power surge
>and then sometimes I don't. Usually once the car is up to running
>temperature I find that surge of power is no longer there.
>
>Any ideas? I can definitely look into the compression of each
>cylinder. What does everyone recommend for cleaning out fuel
>injection systems?

--
Message posted via http://www.carkb.com

Re: Fuel economy loss
 

On Aug 22, 11:40 am, "loewent via CarKB.com" <u10197@uwe> wrote:
> As far as fuel economy on my civic, normally I get about 450-500kms on 40L of
> fuel, mostly highway driving. Now have 282000kms on the motor. (its a 5 spd
> too). Keep in mind that mine is not vtec though, and that does make a
> difference (vtecs use more, generally speaking)
>
> t

This mileage seems quite low for the 98 Civic with manual tranny (it
translates to about 28-29 MPG). Was it that bad when there were fewer
km's on it?

Serban

Re: Fuel economy loss
 

On Aug 22, 11:40 am, "loewent via CarKB.com" <u10197@uwe> wrote:
> As far as fuel economy on my civic, normally I get about 450-500kms on 40L of
> fuel, mostly highway driving. Now have 282000kms on the motor. (its a 5 spd
> too). Keep in mind that mine is not vtec though, and that does make a
> difference (vtecs use more, generally speaking)
>
> t

This mileage seems quite low for the 98 Civic with manual tranny (it
translates to about 28-29 MPG). Was it that bad when there were fewer
km's on it?

Serban