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Re: Gas smell after very short run?
Thus spake jim beam <retard-trap@bad.example.net> :
>Michael Pardee wrote: >> "jim beam" <retard-trap@bad.example.net> wrote in message >> news:d-2dnartW4RyUjvUnZ2dnUVZ_oHinZ2d@speakeasy.net... >>> when a car starts, you have to dump gas because the motor is not warm, >>> thus the fuel doesn't fully vaporize, thus you need excess gas to get >>> sufficient vapor density to burn. if you dump gas, then turn the motor >>> off? where is the gas now? in the inlet, and /not/ being sucked into the >>> motor. so where does it go? it evaporates back out of the air intake. >>> thus you smell gas!!! >>> >>> so that's all the o.p. is experiencing - a few seconds of excess gas >>> because he hasn't warmed the motor. utterly trivial. >>> >> >> Maybe so, but it still does not rule out a gasoline leak. The risk is too >> great to just shrug it off. >> >> Mike >> >> > >well, the neighbor kid could have been stealing gas too and spilled >some. or theoretically, the vehicle /could/ have been drilled by one of >these: > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weakly_...ssive_particle > >that actually /did/ interact precisely at an injector o-ring, and is >subsequently just a bomb waiting to explode. > >but somehow i doubt it. just like i doubt fuel leak on a sub-year old >car made by a manufacturer with an excellent track record on this stuff. > especially when we're told that the car has been run for less than 60 >seconds and that we know about excess mixture on start-up, etc... > >seriously dude, look at the big picture and assign probabilities. > Actually, I really suspected you're observation. After all, I have been around the block a couple of times. It's just that I've never experienced this with modern cars. Of course, this is probably the first time in more than a few years that I've only run a car for a few seconds. And yeah, an 11 month old car? A leak? If the Fit is that shitty, maybe I should trade it in on, say, a Suburban. I'm sure they're holding their value quite well. -- - dillon I am not invalid Hi, I'm Michael Phelps and Olympic Gold isn't the only Gold I'm thinking of. Hi, I'm Michael Phelps and when I'm on Maui, Wowwie. |
Re: Gas smell after very short run?
Thus spake ACAR <dimndsonmywndshld@yahoo.com> :
>On Feb 25, 9:41 am, Dillon Pyron <invaliddmpy...@austin.rr.com> wrote: >> 08 Fit. We left it sitting in the dirveway for a while, and I pulled >> it in in the evening. The engine probably ran for 45 seconds, max. >> When I got out, there was the strong smell of unburned gasoline. > >but not so strong that you were tempted to open the hood and check for >a fuel leak? > > No. But Mr. Beam has pretty much nailed it, as far as I'm concerned. I would think that if it were a leak, I'd smell it by the time I got to work. Which, right now, is 1.85 miles away and takes me 5 minutes on a good day and 7 minutes on a bad day. -- - dillon I am not invalid Hi, I'm Michael Phelps and Olympic Gold isn't the only Gold I'm thinking of. Hi, I'm Michael Phelps and when I'm on Maui, Wowwie. |
Re: Gas smell after very short run?
Dillon Pyron wrote:
> Thus spake ACAR <dimndsonmywndshld@yahoo.com> : > >> On Feb 25, 9:41�am, Dillon Pyron <invaliddmpy...@austin.rr.com> wrote: >>> 08 Fit. �We left it sitting in the dirveway for a while, and I pulled >>> it in in the evening. The engine probably ran for 45 seconds, max. >>> When I got out, there was the strong smell of unburned gasoline. � >> but not so strong that you were tempted to open the hood and check for >> a fuel leak? >> >> > > No. But Mr. Beam has pretty much nailed it, as far as I'm concerned. > I would think that if it were a leak, I'd smell it by the time I got > to work. Which, right now, is 1.85 miles away and takes me 5 minutes > on a good day and 7 minutes on a bad day. that kind of driving sucks for vehicle life - engine [etc] never gets to warm thoroughly [takes about 20 minutes]. you'd do the car [and yourself] a favor if you considered doing that commute by bike. |
Re: Gas smell after very short run?
"jim beam" <retard-trap@bad.example.net> wrote in message news:_9KdnZhEZsIGPzTUnZ2dnUVZ_t_inZ2d@speakeasy.ne t... > Michael Pardee wrote: >> "jim beam" <retard-trap@bad.example.net> wrote in message >> news:Us6dnZGDE5Af-zTUnZ2dnUVZ_huWnZ2d@speakeasy.net... >>> Michael Pardee wrote: >>>> I'm most suspecting fuel injector failure - separation at the >>>> plastic/metal junction. That can occur at any age and mileage, often >>>> shows up when cold and may stop leaking when warm, and I've seen quite >>>> a few in my time... including the one that set my Nissan on fire >>> yeah, we get torched hondas reported here all the time! >>> >> >> The point is it certainly can happen - there is nothing inherent in >> Hondas that exempt them from the possibility of engine fire. The smell of >> gas (should *never* occur with port injected engines) is a big red flag. >> Something is wrong. >> >> Mike > > no dude - did you not read what i explained about exactly /why/ it occurs > after a very short run like this??? true, it shouldn't occur after a > warmup, and in that case, you /would/ investigate, but after a few seconds > cold? gas stink is /inevitable/, and for the reasons stated. > > Nope - and if you give it a try you will notice there is no gas smell unless you have a fuel leak. In fact, it makes no difference whether the engine is running rich (cold) or is warm. The fuel sprayed into the intake - whatever amount - is ingested with every stroke and stops before the engine stops turning, meaning the fuel is cleared away and never escapes. In the old carburetor days it was common to smell fuel when cold, especially if the engine was flooded. The fuel collected in the carb throat, more so when cold because of the choke, and the fuel did not stop when the ignition was turned off. TBI also injects mighty close to the outside air and can produce a gas smell (although not what I would describe as "strong"), but not port injection. Lord knows I've changed enough air filters after pulling the cold car into the garage to know there is never more than a faint trace of gas after the filter is removed, and none before. Mike |
Re: Gas smell after very short run?
Michael Pardee wrote:
> "jim beam" <retard-trap@bad.example.net> wrote in message > news:_9KdnZhEZsIGPzTUnZ2dnUVZ_t_inZ2d@speakeasy.ne t... >> Michael Pardee wrote: >>> "jim beam" <retard-trap@bad.example.net> wrote in message >>> news:Us6dnZGDE5Af-zTUnZ2dnUVZ_huWnZ2d@speakeasy.net... >>>> Michael Pardee wrote: >>>>> I'm most suspecting fuel injector failure - separation at the >>>>> plastic/metal junction. That can occur at any age and mileage, often >>>>> shows up when cold and may stop leaking when warm, and I've seen quite >>>>> a few in my time... including the one that set my Nissan on fire >>>> yeah, we get torched hondas reported here all the time! >>>> >>> The point is it certainly can happen - there is nothing inherent in >>> Hondas that exempt them from the possibility of engine fire. The smell of >>> gas (should *never* occur with port injected engines) is a big red flag. >>> Something is wrong. >>> >>> Mike >> no dude - did you not read what i explained about exactly /why/ it occurs >> after a very short run like this??? true, it shouldn't occur after a >> warmup, and in that case, you /would/ investigate, but after a few seconds >> cold? gas stink is /inevitable/, and for the reasons stated. >> >> > Nope - and if you give it a try you will notice there is no gas smell unless > you have a fuel leak. In fact, it makes no difference whether the engine is > running rich (cold) or is warm. rubbish. > The fuel sprayed into the intake - whatever > amount - is ingested with every stroke and stops before the engine stops > turning, meaning the fuel is cleared away and never escapes. not when the engine is cold. wet fuel lines everything south of the injectors. and if you start, then stop immediately, it never gets warm enough for it to instantly vaporize, therefore it /cannot/ get "cleared away". > > In the old carburetor days it was common to smell fuel when cold, especially > if the engine was flooded. The fuel collected in the carb throat, more so > when cold because of the choke, and the fuel did not stop when the ignition > was turned off. TBI also injects mighty close to the outside air and can > produce a gas smell (although not what I would describe as "strong"), but > not port injection. Lord knows I've changed enough air filters after pulling > the cold car into the garage to know there is never more than a faint trace > of gas after the filter is removed, and none before. > > Mike > > then you're either not running on gasoline or you're in denial! |
Re: Gas smell after very short run?
"jim beam" <retard-trap@bad.example.net> wrote in message news:HMidnSLBmsIcazTUnZ2dnUVZ_sDinZ2d@speakeasy.ne t... > Michael Pardee wrote: >> In the old carburetor days it was common to smell fuel when cold, >> especially if the engine was flooded. The fuel collected in the carb >> throat, more so when cold because of the choke, and the fuel did not stop >> when the ignition was turned off. TBI also injects mighty close to the >> outside air and can produce a gas smell (although not what I would >> describe as "strong"), but not port injection. Lord knows I've changed >> enough air filters after pulling the cold car into the garage to know >> there is never more than a faint trace of gas after the filter is >> removed, and none before. >> >> Mike > > then you're either not running on gasoline or you're in denial! Try it and see. I'm surprised nobody else is weighing in on their experiences with gas smell or not. I know none of the 5 cars at my house have gas smells even after rearranging them, which we do pretty much every night in the winter when street parking is prohibited. Two always end up in the garage and it never, ever, ever smells of gasoline. I even asked my wife, whose nose is better than mine. Mike |
Re: Gas smell after very short run?
Michael Pardee wrote:
> "jim beam" <retard-trap@bad.example.net> wrote in message > news:HMidnSLBmsIcazTUnZ2dnUVZ_sDinZ2d@speakeasy.ne t... >> Michael Pardee wrote: > >>> In the old carburetor days it was common to smell fuel when cold, >>> especially if the engine was flooded. The fuel collected in the carb >>> throat, more so when cold because of the choke, and the fuel did not stop >>> when the ignition was turned off. TBI also injects mighty close to the >>> outside air and can produce a gas smell (although not what I would >>> describe as "strong"), but not port injection. Lord knows I've changed >>> enough air filters after pulling the cold car into the garage to know >>> there is never more than a faint trace of gas after the filter is >>> removed, and none before. >>> >>> Mike >> then you're either not running on gasoline or you're in denial! > > Try it and see. > > I'm surprised nobody else is weighing in on their experiences with gas smell > or not. I know none of the 5 cars at my house have gas smells even after > rearranging them, which we do pretty much every night in the winter when > street parking is prohibited. Two always end up in the garage and it never, > ever, ever smells of gasoline. I even asked my wife, whose nose is better > than mine. > > Mike > > that says more for your sense of smell than it does basic physics. |
Re: Gas smell after very short run?
"jim beam" <retard-trap@bad.example.net> wrote in message
news:wpWdnVGHCoBtvjfUnZ2dnUVZ_oTinZ2d@speakeasy.ne t... > Michael Pardee wrote: >> >> Try it and see. >> >> I'm surprised nobody else is weighing in on their experiences with gas >> smell or not. I know none of the 5 cars at my house have gas smells even >> after rearranging them, which we do pretty much every night in the winter >> when street parking is prohibited. Two always end up in the garage and it >> never, ever, ever smells of gasoline. I even asked my wife, whose nose is >> better than mine. >> >> Mike > > that says more for your sense of smell than it does basic physics. > So, you still haven't checked it out for yourself? Go ahead - science isn't painful. This morning when I pulled my 2002 Prius into the garage after my wife left (it had the same sort of run time the OP was describing) I opened the hood - no gas smell. I removed the air filter cover - no gas smell. I removed the air filter - no gas smell. I put my nose to the throttle body - faint smell of gas and crankcase odor. I'd say your theory of gas smells normally coming from the intake when the engine is cold is busted. I am curious about what you would check out and what you would let ride. Many oil pressure light indications are the result of a bad sender; do you routinely ignore them? Engine temp lights and guages could be wrong, too. Clattering sounds coming from the engine could be innocuous. Smoke from under the hood can be anything. Diving momentarily to one side when braking may be a sluggish brake caliper, not a ball joint failing http://tegger.com/hondafaq/lowerballjoint/index.html . My point is that a gasoline smell is going to be the only warning any of us would be lucky enough to get before a fire that will destroy the car and, if it is parked in a carport or garage, may destroy a home. It is hard to imagine a worse outcome short of a failure that causes a crash.Why on earth would somebody choose to ignore it - especially if the vehicle is under warranty, as the OP's is? Several years ago the entrance to our parking lot in Phoenix was blocked by a Cadillac. That afternoon I asked the guard what happened. He said the driver tried to make a U-turn and a ball joint broke. After the guard determined what the failure was, he asked her, "Didn't the steering wheel shake [pantomimes] when you went over railroad tracks?" She said, "Yeah! Just like that!" Mike |
Re: Gas smell after very short run?
Michael Pardee wrote:
> "jim beam" <retard-trap@bad.example.net> wrote in message > news:HMidnSLBmsIcazTUnZ2dnUVZ_sDinZ2d@speakeasy.ne t... >> Michael Pardee wrote: > >>> In the old carburetor days it was common to smell fuel when cold, >>> especially if the engine was flooded. The fuel collected in the carb >>> throat, more so when cold because of the choke, and the fuel did not stop >>> when the ignition was turned off. TBI also injects mighty close to the >>> outside air and can produce a gas smell (although not what I would >>> describe as "strong"), but not port injection. Lord knows I've changed >>> enough air filters after pulling the cold car into the garage to know >>> there is never more than a faint trace of gas after the filter is >>> removed, and none before. >>> >>> Mike >> then you're either not running on gasoline or you're in denial! > > Try it and see. > > I'm surprised nobody else is weighing in on their experiences with gas smell > or not. I know none of the 5 cars at my house have gas smells even after > rearranging them, which we do pretty much every night in the winter when > street parking is prohibited. Two always end up in the garage and it never, > ever, ever smells of gasoline. I even asked my wife, whose nose is better > than mine. > > Mike > > In my experience many cars do smell of gas after being started then shut off within the first minute or two. |
Re: Gas smell after very short run?
Michael Pardee wrote:
> "jim beam" <retard-trap@bad.example.net> wrote in message > news:wpWdnVGHCoBtvjfUnZ2dnUVZ_oTinZ2d@speakeasy.ne t... >> Michael Pardee wrote: >>> Try it and see. >>> >>> I'm surprised nobody else is weighing in on their experiences with gas >>> smell or not. I know none of the 5 cars at my house have gas smells even >>> after rearranging them, which we do pretty much every night in the winter >>> when street parking is prohibited. Two always end up in the garage and it >>> never, ever, ever smells of gasoline. I even asked my wife, whose nose is >>> better than mine. >>> >>> Mike >> that says more for your sense of smell than it does basic physics. >> > > So, you still haven't checked it out for yourself? Go ahead - science isn't > painful. This morning when I pulled my 2002 Prius into the garage after my > wife left (it had the same sort of run time the OP was describing) I opened > the hood - no gas smell. I removed the air filter cover - no gas smell. I > removed the air filter - no gas smell. I put my nose to the throttle body - > faint smell of gas and crankcase odor. I'd say your theory of gas smells > normally coming from the intake when the engine is cold is busted. > > I am curious about what you would check out and what you would let ride. > Many oil pressure light indications are the result of a bad sender; do you > routinely ignore them? Engine temp lights and guages could be wrong, too. > Clattering sounds coming from the engine could be innocuous. Smoke from > under the hood can be anything. Diving momentarily to one side when braking > may be a sluggish brake caliper, not a ball joint failing > http://tegger.com/hondafaq/lowerballjoint/index.html . that is what's called "ad hominem". and utter bullshit. > My point is that a > gasoline smell is going to be the only warning any of us would be lucky > enough to get before a fire that will destroy the car and, if it is parked > in a carport or garage, may destroy a home. and the o.p.'s reported that hasn't he. oh, wait, you're just being chicken little. > It is hard to imagine a worse > outcome short of a failure that causes a crash.Why on earth would somebody > choose to ignore it - especially if the vehicle is under warranty, as the > OP's is? > > Several years ago the entrance to our parking lot in Phoenix was blocked by > a Cadillac. That afternoon I asked the guard what happened. He said the > driver tried to make a U-turn and a ball joint broke. After the guard > determined what the failure was, he asked her, "Didn't the steering wheel > shake [pantomimes] when you went over railroad tracks?" She said, "Yeah! > Just like that!" > > Mike > > drama queen. |
Re: Gas smell after very short run?
"jim beam" <retard-trap@bad.example.net> wrote in message
news:2M6dnVVtXYQJNTfUnZ2dnUVZ_iyWnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t... > Michael Pardee wrote: >> >> I am curious about what you would check out and what you would let ride. >> Many oil pressure light indications are the result of a bad sender; do >> you routinely ignore them? Engine temp lights and guages could be wrong, >> too. Clattering sounds coming from the engine could be innocuous. Smoke >> from under the hood can be anything. Diving momentarily to one side when >> braking may be a sluggish brake caliper, not a ball joint failing >> http://tegger.com/hondafaq/lowerballjoint/index.html . > > that is what's called "ad hominem". and utter bullshit. > No - ad hominem is a personal attack. My concern is for the logic - there is still no apparent trigger point in your recommendations for investigating alarming indications. You leave the question unanswered: what does it take in your view to investigate, especially when it would cost nothing and could save a vehicle and even a home? Since my simple test (one you can recreate as easily as I did) left the source of the gas smell unexplained, do you still recommend the OP ignore it? > >> My point is that a gasoline smell is going to be the only warning any of >> us would be lucky enough to get before a fire that will destroy the car >> and, if it is parked in a carport or garage, may destroy a home. > > and the o.p.'s reported that hasn't he. oh, wait, you're just being > chicken little. > (Still not ad hominem - that is metonymy.) I really like to see fire hazards controlled before the fire occurs - I guess I'm funny that way. How would you feel - honestly and seriously - if tomorrow the OP reports a fire that destroys his Fit and possibly his home, particularly after you have been so adamant he should ignore the only warning he will get? Surely you recognize it could happen and that it has certainly happened to others. Personally, I would have trouble looking myself in the mirror for a very long time. > >> It is hard to imagine a worse outcome short of a failure that causes a >> crash.Why on earth would somebody choose to ignore it - especially if the >> vehicle is under warranty, as the OP's is? >> >> Several years ago the entrance to our parking lot in Phoenix was blocked >> by a Cadillac. That afternoon I asked the guard what happened. He said >> the driver tried to make a U-turn and a ball joint broke. After the guard >> determined what the failure was, he asked her, "Didn't the steering wheel >> shake [pantomimes] when you went over railroad tracks?" She said, "Yeah! >> Just like that!" >> >> Mike > > drama queen. > Now *that* is ad hominem. You finally nailed it. Wish you had answered the question though. Mike, the chicken little drama queen (CLDQ to my friends) |
Re: Gas smell after very short run?
"Al" <al@spamless.com> wrote in message news:49aa98ff$0$5900$607ed4bc@cv.net... > Michael Pardee wrote: >> >> I'm surprised nobody else is weighing in on their experiences with gas >> smell or not. I know none of the 5 cars at my house have gas smells even >> after rearranging them, which we do pretty much every night in the winter >> when street parking is prohibited. Two always end up in the garage and it >> never, ever, ever smells of gasoline. I even asked my wife, whose nose is >> better than mine. >> >> Mike > In my experience many cars do smell of gas after being started then shut > off within the first minute or two. Thanks for the input. I think long threads like this are put on a lot of "ignore" lists, so I don't know how many contributors are still with us. Mike |
Re: Gas smell after very short run?
Michael Pardee wrote:
> "jim beam" <retard-trap@bad.example.net> wrote in message > news:2M6dnVVtXYQJNTfUnZ2dnUVZ_iyWnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t... >> Michael Pardee wrote: >>> I am curious about what you would check out and what you would let ride. >>> Many oil pressure light indications are the result of a bad sender; do >>> you routinely ignore them? Engine temp lights and guages could be wrong, >>> too. Clattering sounds coming from the engine could be innocuous. Smoke >>> from under the hood can be anything. Diving momentarily to one side when >>> braking may be a sluggish brake caliper, not a ball joint failing >>> http://tegger.com/hondafaq/lowerballjoint/index.html . >> that is what's called "ad hominem". and utter bullshit. >> > > No - ad hominem is a personal attack. no, ad hominem is indirect attack. you're citing bullshit, then trying to imply that it applies. > My concern is for the logic - there is > still no apparent trigger point in your recommendations for investigating > alarming indications. yes i did. age of vehicle. track record of vehicle. circumstances of use. physics of situation. > You leave the question unanswered: what does it take > in your view to investigate, especially when it would cost nothing and could > save a vehicle and even a home? what does it take? well, it /doesn't/ take worrying about the feelings of a drama queen! > Since my simple test (one you can recreate > as easily as I did) left the source of the gas smell unexplained, do you > still recommend the OP ignore it? the op /did/ ignore it! > >>> My point is that a gasoline smell is going to be the only warning any of >>> us would be lucky enough to get before a fire that will destroy the car >>> and, if it is parked in a carport or garage, may destroy a home. >> and the o.p.'s reported that hasn't he. oh, wait, you're just being >> chicken little. >> > > (Still not ad hominem - that is metonymy.) I really like to see fire hazards > controlled before the fire occurs - I guess I'm funny that way. How would > you feel - honestly and seriously - if tomorrow the OP reports a fire that > destroys his Fit and possibly his home, particularly after you have been so > adamant he should ignore the only warning he will get? Surely you recognize > it could happen and that it has certainly happened to others. Personally, I > would have trouble looking myself in the mirror for a very long time. > >>> It is hard to imagine a worse outcome short of a failure that causes a >>> crash.Why on earth would somebody choose to ignore it - especially if the >>> vehicle is under warranty, as the OP's is? >>> >>> Several years ago the entrance to our parking lot in Phoenix was blocked >>> by a Cadillac. That afternoon I asked the guard what happened. He said >>> the driver tried to make a U-turn and a ball joint broke. After the guard >>> determined what the failure was, he asked her, "Didn't the steering wheel >>> shake [pantomimes] when you went over railroad tracks?" She said, "Yeah! >>> Just like that!" >>> >>> Mike >> drama queen. >> > > Now *that* is ad hominem. no it's not! it's direct observation of fact! seriously, you need to use a dictionary. and calm down. > You finally nailed it. Wish you had answered the > question though. > > Mike, the chicken little drama queen (CLDQ to my friends) > > |
Re: Gas smell after very short run?
Michael Pardee wrote:
> "Al" <al@spamless.com> wrote in message > news:49aa98ff$0$5900$607ed4bc@cv.net... >> Michael Pardee wrote: >>> I'm surprised nobody else is weighing in on their experiences with gas >>> smell or not. I know none of the 5 cars at my house have gas smells even >>> after rearranging them, which we do pretty much every night in the winter >>> when street parking is prohibited. Two always end up in the garage and it >>> never, ever, ever smells of gasoline. I even asked my wife, whose nose is >>> better than mine. >>> >>> Mike >> In my experience many cars do smell of gas after being started then shut >> off within the first minute or two. > > Thanks for the input. I think long threads like this are put on a lot of > "ignore" lists, so I don't know how many contributors are still with us. > > Mike > > you mean, how many can put up with the drama queen getting their panties in a bunch long after the case is proven? go to a doctor mike - get your sense of smell checked out. |
Re: Gas smell after very short run?
"jim beam" <retard-trap@bad.example.net> wrote in message
news:L7mdnR-iMeP5VTfUnZ2dnUVZ_gWWnZ2d@speakeasy.net... > Michael Pardee wrote: >> "jim beam" <retard-trap@bad.example.net> wrote in message >>> drama queen. >>> >> >> Now *that* is ad hominem. > > no it's not! it's direct observation of fact! seriously, you need to use > a dictionary. and calm down. > From Microsoft Bookshelf, ad hominem is "Appealing to personal considerations rather than to logic or reason." Your "observation" (opinion) is immaterial to the subject at hand and I don't see how you could have meant it in any impersonal context. Thus, ad hominem. I have been asking you to get factual but you have been ducking the questions. I checked your basic premise - that most or all cars smell of gasoline if shut down after a short run while cold - and found my car doesn't do it, none of the other cars around me (including two Honda products) appear to do it, while another contributor says in his experience that some do. It really doesn't matter to me what you think of me; you are entitled to your opinions. I just wish you would focus - once more, why should anybody ignore the only warning of a well known hazard of such serious consequences when it is *free* to check it out? Are you saying cars that smell like gas never have fuel leaks, or that without checking we will know which ones do and which ones do not? You cite: >age of vehicle - but the vehicle is in the prime age range for an assembly >problem, increasing the risk. >track record of vehicle - the track record is not yet established for the >2008 Fit. If it were a 2000 you would have a point. >use - he drives the car, just the way pretty much every other car that has >burned up has been used. >physics of situation - your theory did not stand up to testing, unless you >have some data of your own. And wake up. Mike |
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