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Re: Head Bolts
Eightupman wrote:
> get the surface of the head planed at a local shop especially if you did not > take the bolts out in reverse order of torque sequence. You should also > consider having the valves reseated, and magnafluxed to look for cracks. how do you magnaflux an alloy head? > I > ALWAYS replace head bolts on aluminum headed engines as a rule. You will be > suprised how much more power will be restored if you have the head gone > through completetly. > > > "FJvD" <Frank> wrote in message > news:m331q0hm6nmgm5l11ultgmrhp6kp2b2k4u@4ax.com... > >>Thanks Caleb!! >> >>The last two head bolts came off by following your instructions. I'll >>replace all the head bolts when I get time to put it all together >>later this week. >> >>Is there anything I should do while I have the head ofF? >> >>Is it woth having it crack tested or hardness tested? >> >>Thanks again.. You saved me a great deal of pain.. I have been telling >>my wife what a great group this is for information... She wants to >>know if anyone has advised me to get a towtruck and move it to a Honda >>repairer yet?? (It is her car and it has been off the road for three >>weeks now while I have been building up to getting the head off. >> >>Thanks >> >>On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 22:35:48 +1300, Caleb <caleb@cet.co.nz> wrote: >> >> >>>FJvD wrote: >>> >>>>Well I managed to get the dreaded pully nut off.. It too an entire >>>>afternoo with a rattle gun and a big compressor. >>>> >>>>And I then decided to pull the head and replace the head gasket. >>>> >>>>So far I have managed to get 8 out of the 10 head bolts out. The other >>>>two have been burred and the socket cannot get a grip.... Any ideas on >>>>how I can get the last two hed bolts out?? >>>> >>>>Thanks guys >>>> >>>>Frank >>> >>>How badly are the bolts rounded? are you using a 12 point or 6 point >>>socket? 6 point sockets are much stronger and wont round the bolt as >>>much. If a 6 point wont work then get the next size smaller and a hammer >>>(use a strong socket) also make sure its at least half inch drive, >>>preferable 1" and a big power bar >> > > |
Re: Head Bolts
Eightupman wrote:
> get the surface of the head planed at a local shop especially if you did not > take the bolts out in reverse order of torque sequence. You should also > consider having the valves reseated, and magnafluxed to look for cracks. how do you magnaflux an alloy head? > I > ALWAYS replace head bolts on aluminum headed engines as a rule. You will be > suprised how much more power will be restored if you have the head gone > through completetly. > > > "FJvD" <Frank> wrote in message > news:m331q0hm6nmgm5l11ultgmrhp6kp2b2k4u@4ax.com... > >>Thanks Caleb!! >> >>The last two head bolts came off by following your instructions. I'll >>replace all the head bolts when I get time to put it all together >>later this week. >> >>Is there anything I should do while I have the head ofF? >> >>Is it woth having it crack tested or hardness tested? >> >>Thanks again.. You saved me a great deal of pain.. I have been telling >>my wife what a great group this is for information... She wants to >>know if anyone has advised me to get a towtruck and move it to a Honda >>repairer yet?? (It is her car and it has been off the road for three >>weeks now while I have been building up to getting the head off. >> >>Thanks >> >>On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 22:35:48 +1300, Caleb <caleb@cet.co.nz> wrote: >> >> >>>FJvD wrote: >>> >>>>Well I managed to get the dreaded pully nut off.. It too an entire >>>>afternoo with a rattle gun and a big compressor. >>>> >>>>And I then decided to pull the head and replace the head gasket. >>>> >>>>So far I have managed to get 8 out of the 10 head bolts out. The other >>>>two have been burred and the socket cannot get a grip.... Any ideas on >>>>how I can get the last two hed bolts out?? >>>> >>>>Thanks guys >>>> >>>>Frank >>> >>>How badly are the bolts rounded? are you using a 12 point or 6 point >>>socket? 6 point sockets are much stronger and wont round the bolt as >>>much. If a 6 point wont work then get the next size smaller and a hammer >>>(use a strong socket) also make sure its at least half inch drive, >>>preferable 1" and a big power bar >> > > |
Re: Head Bolts
FJvD wrote:
> Thanks Caleb!! > > The last two head bolts came off by following your instructions. I'll > replace all the head bolts when I get time to put it all together > later this week. > > Is there anything I should do while I have the head ofF? > > Is it woth having it crack tested or hardness tested? > > Thanks again.. You saved me a great deal of pain.. I have been telling > my wife what a great group this is for information... She wants to > know if anyone has advised me to get a towtruck and move it to a Honda > repairer yet?? (It is her car and it has been off the road for three > weeks now while I have been building up to getting the head off. > > Thanks > > On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 22:35:48 +1300, Caleb <caleb@cet.co.nz> wrote: > > >>FJvD wrote: >> >>>Well I managed to get the dreaded pully nut off.. It too an entire >>>afternoo with a rattle gun and a big compressor. >>> >>>And I then decided to pull the head and replace the head gasket. >>> >>>So far I have managed to get 8 out of the 10 head bolts out. The other >>>two have been burred and the socket cannot get a grip.... Any ideas on >>>how I can get the last two hed bolts out?? >>> >>>Thanks guys >>> >>>Frank >> >>How badly are the bolts rounded? are you using a 12 point or 6 point >>socket? 6 point sockets are much stronger and wont round the bolt as >>much. If a 6 point wont work then get the next size smaller and a hammer >>(use a strong socket) also make sure its at least half inch drive, >>preferable 1" and a big power bar > > you should check the cylinder head to see if it is warped and get it planed if it is, when you put it back on the block make sure you tighten the bolts in the right order and use a torque wrench, while the head is off its a good idea to replace the valve stem seals and reseat the valves. once its back together you have a 1000k wear in period. |
Re: Head Bolts
FJvD wrote:
> Thanks Caleb!! > > The last two head bolts came off by following your instructions. I'll > replace all the head bolts when I get time to put it all together > later this week. > > Is there anything I should do while I have the head ofF? > > Is it woth having it crack tested or hardness tested? > > Thanks again.. You saved me a great deal of pain.. I have been telling > my wife what a great group this is for information... She wants to > know if anyone has advised me to get a towtruck and move it to a Honda > repairer yet?? (It is her car and it has been off the road for three > weeks now while I have been building up to getting the head off. > > Thanks > > On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 22:35:48 +1300, Caleb <caleb@cet.co.nz> wrote: > > >>FJvD wrote: >> >>>Well I managed to get the dreaded pully nut off.. It too an entire >>>afternoo with a rattle gun and a big compressor. >>> >>>And I then decided to pull the head and replace the head gasket. >>> >>>So far I have managed to get 8 out of the 10 head bolts out. The other >>>two have been burred and the socket cannot get a grip.... Any ideas on >>>how I can get the last two hed bolts out?? >>> >>>Thanks guys >>> >>>Frank >> >>How badly are the bolts rounded? are you using a 12 point or 6 point >>socket? 6 point sockets are much stronger and wont round the bolt as >>much. If a 6 point wont work then get the next size smaller and a hammer >>(use a strong socket) also make sure its at least half inch drive, >>preferable 1" and a big power bar > > you should check the cylinder head to see if it is warped and get it planed if it is, when you put it back on the block make sure you tighten the bolts in the right order and use a torque wrench, while the head is off its a good idea to replace the valve stem seals and reseat the valves. once its back together you have a 1000k wear in period. |
Re: Head Bolts
The car is a 1990 Accord Exi 2.2 liter
On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 08:57:17 -0800, jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote: >Jafir Elkurd wrote: >> What kind of car is it? 88-95 civics have an updated head gasket (and >> bolts) you can use. You should always have the head surfaced after you have >> removed it.... and it wouldn't hurt to pressure check it first and have the >> valves faced. > >resurfacing an alloy head is not so easy. most shops try to use the >same tools/speeds they use for detroit iron & it doesn't work - the >material just bunches up in front of the cutter head causing deep >gouges, not clean cuts. after that, the new gasket goes on ok, but >starts leaking after a few hundred miles. you're better off just >cleaning the head surface carefully by hand with a putty knife. having >it tested & refinished by someone with the right equipment to factory >spec is real expensive. > >> >> "FJvD" <Frank> wrote in message >> news:m331q0hm6nmgm5l11ultgmrhp6kp2b2k4u@4ax.com... >> >>>Thanks Caleb!! >>> >>>The last two head bolts came off by following your instructions. I'll >>>replace all the head bolts when I get time to put it all together >>>later this week. >>> >>>Is there anything I should do while I have the head ofF? >>> >>>Is it woth having it crack tested or hardness tested? >>> >> >> >> |
Re: Head Bolts
The car is a 1990 Accord Exi 2.2 liter
On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 08:57:17 -0800, jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote: >Jafir Elkurd wrote: >> What kind of car is it? 88-95 civics have an updated head gasket (and >> bolts) you can use. You should always have the head surfaced after you have >> removed it.... and it wouldn't hurt to pressure check it first and have the >> valves faced. > >resurfacing an alloy head is not so easy. most shops try to use the >same tools/speeds they use for detroit iron & it doesn't work - the >material just bunches up in front of the cutter head causing deep >gouges, not clean cuts. after that, the new gasket goes on ok, but >starts leaking after a few hundred miles. you're better off just >cleaning the head surface carefully by hand with a putty knife. having >it tested & refinished by someone with the right equipment to factory >spec is real expensive. > >> >> "FJvD" <Frank> wrote in message >> news:m331q0hm6nmgm5l11ultgmrhp6kp2b2k4u@4ax.com... >> >>>Thanks Caleb!! >>> >>>The last two head bolts came off by following your instructions. I'll >>>replace all the head bolts when I get time to put it all together >>>later this week. >>> >>>Is there anything I should do while I have the head ofF? >>> >>>Is it woth having it crack tested or hardness tested? >>> >> >> >> |
Re: Head Bolts
FJvD wrote:
> > Well I managed to get the dreaded pully nut off.. It too an entire > afternoo with a rattle gun and a big compressor. > > And I then decided to pull the head and replace the head gasket. > > So far I have managed to get 8 out of the 10 head bolts out. The other > two have been burred and the socket cannot get a grip.... Any ideas on > how I can get the last two hed bolts out?? > Just for future reference, sockets such as these from Snap-On can be a real life saver when dealing with rounded nuts http://tinyurl.com/4h8mj. As a less expensive alternative, Craftsmen also offers similar units though I can't find a url for them at this time (if I remember correctly a comparable set is $40-50). Eric |
Re: Head Bolts
FJvD wrote:
> > Well I managed to get the dreaded pully nut off.. It too an entire > afternoo with a rattle gun and a big compressor. > > And I then decided to pull the head and replace the head gasket. > > So far I have managed to get 8 out of the 10 head bolts out. The other > two have been burred and the socket cannot get a grip.... Any ideas on > how I can get the last two hed bolts out?? > Just for future reference, sockets such as these from Snap-On can be a real life saver when dealing with rounded nuts http://tinyurl.com/4h8mj. As a less expensive alternative, Craftsmen also offers similar units though I can't find a url for them at this time (if I remember correctly a comparable set is $40-50). Eric |
Re: Head Bolts
"jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message news:RMadnXMuOtz9TD3cRVn-gA@comcast.com... > Eightupman wrote: > > get the surface of the head planed at a local shop especially if you did not > > take the bolts out in reverse order of torque sequence. You should also > > consider having the valves reseated, and magnafluxed to look for cracks. > > how do you magnaflux an alloy head? Glad you asked..with liquid penetrant materials and UV light. OK, your right, the word magnaflux is used incorrectly here, ,but the point was to get the machine shop to check it for cracks, and most laymen know the term magnaflux over LPI......any good machine shop will have the LPI chemicals. Liquid Penetrant Inspection "LPI Inspection is a non-destructive test method that uses an oil-based chemical solution of dye, visible or fluorescent, capable of migration in surface openings. It is used to locate cracks in ferrous or non-ferrous materials, as well as some ceramics and plastics Read FAQ Applications - Detecting surface flaws in non-porous parts. Typically used in aerospace, castings, forgings, automotive, leak testing, general metal work, power plants, etc." Above taken from http://www.magnaflux.com/products/overview.stm The small kit is CHEAP (ie, $12.00 on Ebay) for the serious DIY guys/gals This kit would have saved me from installing a used cracked head on a BMW 325 a few years ago. Once the head was cleaned and dipped (the British guy used a weak solution of Traffic Film Remover or TFR) that worked better to clean alloy that I have EVER seen) the crack was invisible to our naked eye. Only after it got hot did the crack expand enough to cause a leak. We didn't catch the crack that ran right along parallel underneath the camshaft. I'll never make that mistake again. Hope this is useful......... Eightupman |
Re: Head Bolts
"jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message news:RMadnXMuOtz9TD3cRVn-gA@comcast.com... > Eightupman wrote: > > get the surface of the head planed at a local shop especially if you did not > > take the bolts out in reverse order of torque sequence. You should also > > consider having the valves reseated, and magnafluxed to look for cracks. > > how do you magnaflux an alloy head? Glad you asked..with liquid penetrant materials and UV light. OK, your right, the word magnaflux is used incorrectly here, ,but the point was to get the machine shop to check it for cracks, and most laymen know the term magnaflux over LPI......any good machine shop will have the LPI chemicals. Liquid Penetrant Inspection "LPI Inspection is a non-destructive test method that uses an oil-based chemical solution of dye, visible or fluorescent, capable of migration in surface openings. It is used to locate cracks in ferrous or non-ferrous materials, as well as some ceramics and plastics Read FAQ Applications - Detecting surface flaws in non-porous parts. Typically used in aerospace, castings, forgings, automotive, leak testing, general metal work, power plants, etc." Above taken from http://www.magnaflux.com/products/overview.stm The small kit is CHEAP (ie, $12.00 on Ebay) for the serious DIY guys/gals This kit would have saved me from installing a used cracked head on a BMW 325 a few years ago. Once the head was cleaned and dipped (the British guy used a weak solution of Traffic Film Remover or TFR) that worked better to clean alloy that I have EVER seen) the crack was invisible to our naked eye. Only after it got hot did the crack expand enough to cause a leak. We didn't catch the crack that ran right along parallel underneath the camshaft. I'll never make that mistake again. Hope this is useful......... Eightupman |
Re: Head Bolts
The machine shop I use, uses a belt sander setup. The do not take off very
much material at all. They set the level head on the belt for a few seconds and then lift it to check if the surface is level and clean. If it is warped, you will see the distinct "misses" where the belt sander does not touch. Down for a few more seconds, and if it is completely surfaced, it is measured to see if a thicker gasket is needed. I have not ever seen one cut out of spec thickness. I personally would never go after an alloy head with a puttly knife, or anything that will run the risk of gouging the surface. Especially if you have never done it before. You could try a brass wire wheel on a drill. It is abrasive enought to knock off the crap, but will not gouge the head. "jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message news:6YOdnb8K-eNwVT3cRVn-iw@comcast.com... > Jafir Elkurd wrote: > > What kind of car is it? 88-95 civics have an updated head gasket (and > > bolts) you can use. You should always have the head surfaced after you have > > removed it.... and it wouldn't hurt to pressure check it first and have the > > valves faced. > > resurfacing an alloy head is not so easy. most shops try to use the > same tools/speeds they use for detroit iron & it doesn't work - the > material just bunches up in front of the cutter head causing deep > gouges, not clean cuts. after that, the new gasket goes on ok, but > starts leaking after a few hundred miles. you're better off just > cleaning the head surface carefully by hand with a putty knife. having > it tested & refinished by someone with the right equipment to factory > spec is real expensive. > > > > > "FJvD" <Frank> wrote in message > > news:m331q0hm6nmgm5l11ultgmrhp6kp2b2k4u@4ax.com... > > > >>Thanks Caleb!! > >> > >>The last two head bolts came off by following your instructions. I'll > >>replace all the head bolts when I get time to put it all together > >>later this week. > >> > >>Is there anything I should do while I have the head ofF? > >> > >>Is it woth having it crack tested or hardness tested? > >> > > > > > > > |
Re: Head Bolts
The machine shop I use, uses a belt sander setup. The do not take off very
much material at all. They set the level head on the belt for a few seconds and then lift it to check if the surface is level and clean. If it is warped, you will see the distinct "misses" where the belt sander does not touch. Down for a few more seconds, and if it is completely surfaced, it is measured to see if a thicker gasket is needed. I have not ever seen one cut out of spec thickness. I personally would never go after an alloy head with a puttly knife, or anything that will run the risk of gouging the surface. Especially if you have never done it before. You could try a brass wire wheel on a drill. It is abrasive enought to knock off the crap, but will not gouge the head. "jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message news:6YOdnb8K-eNwVT3cRVn-iw@comcast.com... > Jafir Elkurd wrote: > > What kind of car is it? 88-95 civics have an updated head gasket (and > > bolts) you can use. You should always have the head surfaced after you have > > removed it.... and it wouldn't hurt to pressure check it first and have the > > valves faced. > > resurfacing an alloy head is not so easy. most shops try to use the > same tools/speeds they use for detroit iron & it doesn't work - the > material just bunches up in front of the cutter head causing deep > gouges, not clean cuts. after that, the new gasket goes on ok, but > starts leaking after a few hundred miles. you're better off just > cleaning the head surface carefully by hand with a putty knife. having > it tested & refinished by someone with the right equipment to factory > spec is real expensive. > > > > > "FJvD" <Frank> wrote in message > > news:m331q0hm6nmgm5l11ultgmrhp6kp2b2k4u@4ax.com... > > > >>Thanks Caleb!! > >> > >>The last two head bolts came off by following your instructions. I'll > >>replace all the head bolts when I get time to put it all together > >>later this week. > >> > >>Is there anything I should do while I have the head ofF? > >> > >>Is it woth having it crack tested or hardness tested? > >> > > > > > > > |
Re: Head Bolts
good, if you're going to resurface, that's the way to do it.
just to be contrarian, there's a school of thought regarding resurfacing warped alloy heads on alloy blocks [honda] that says /not/ to do it because the two surfaces are frequently warped to fit each other. need to check both surfaces first. if they're both warped, leave alone. Eightupman wrote: > The machine shop I use, uses a belt sander setup. The do not take off very > much material at all. They set the level head on the belt for a few seconds > and then lift it to check if the surface is level and clean. If it is > warped, you will see the distinct "misses" where the belt sander does not > touch. Down for a few more seconds, and if it is completely surfaced, it > is measured to see if a thicker gasket is needed. I have not ever seen one > cut out of spec thickness. > > I personally would never go after an alloy head with a puttly knife, or > anything that will run the risk of gouging the surface. Especially if you > have never done it before. You could try a brass wire wheel on a drill. It > is abrasive enought to knock off the crap, but will not gouge the head. > > > "jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message > news:6YOdnb8K-eNwVT3cRVn-iw@comcast.com... > >>Jafir Elkurd wrote: >> >>>What kind of car is it? 88-95 civics have an updated head gasket (and >>>bolts) you can use. You should always have the head surfaced after you > > have > >>>removed it.... and it wouldn't hurt to pressure check it first and have > > the > >>>valves faced. >> >>resurfacing an alloy head is not so easy. most shops try to use the >>same tools/speeds they use for detroit iron & it doesn't work - the >>material just bunches up in front of the cutter head causing deep >>gouges, not clean cuts. after that, the new gasket goes on ok, but >>starts leaking after a few hundred miles. you're better off just >>cleaning the head surface carefully by hand with a putty knife. having >>it tested & refinished by someone with the right equipment to factory >>spec is real expensive. >> >> >>>"FJvD" <Frank> wrote in message >>>news:m331q0hm6nmgm5l11ultgmrhp6kp2b2k4u@4ax.com ... >>> >>> >>>>Thanks Caleb!! >>>> >>>>The last two head bolts came off by following your instructions. I'll >>>>replace all the head bolts when I get time to put it all together >>>>later this week. >>>> >>>>Is there anything I should do while I have the head ofF? >>>> >>>>Is it woth having it crack tested or hardness tested? >>>> >>> >>> >>> > > |
Re: Head Bolts
good, if you're going to resurface, that's the way to do it.
just to be contrarian, there's a school of thought regarding resurfacing warped alloy heads on alloy blocks [honda] that says /not/ to do it because the two surfaces are frequently warped to fit each other. need to check both surfaces first. if they're both warped, leave alone. Eightupman wrote: > The machine shop I use, uses a belt sander setup. The do not take off very > much material at all. They set the level head on the belt for a few seconds > and then lift it to check if the surface is level and clean. If it is > warped, you will see the distinct "misses" where the belt sander does not > touch. Down for a few more seconds, and if it is completely surfaced, it > is measured to see if a thicker gasket is needed. I have not ever seen one > cut out of spec thickness. > > I personally would never go after an alloy head with a puttly knife, or > anything that will run the risk of gouging the surface. Especially if you > have never done it before. You could try a brass wire wheel on a drill. It > is abrasive enought to knock off the crap, but will not gouge the head. > > > "jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message > news:6YOdnb8K-eNwVT3cRVn-iw@comcast.com... > >>Jafir Elkurd wrote: >> >>>What kind of car is it? 88-95 civics have an updated head gasket (and >>>bolts) you can use. You should always have the head surfaced after you > > have > >>>removed it.... and it wouldn't hurt to pressure check it first and have > > the > >>>valves faced. >> >>resurfacing an alloy head is not so easy. most shops try to use the >>same tools/speeds they use for detroit iron & it doesn't work - the >>material just bunches up in front of the cutter head causing deep >>gouges, not clean cuts. after that, the new gasket goes on ok, but >>starts leaking after a few hundred miles. you're better off just >>cleaning the head surface carefully by hand with a putty knife. having >>it tested & refinished by someone with the right equipment to factory >>spec is real expensive. >> >> >>>"FJvD" <Frank> wrote in message >>>news:m331q0hm6nmgm5l11ultgmrhp6kp2b2k4u@4ax.com ... >>> >>> >>>>Thanks Caleb!! >>>> >>>>The last two head bolts came off by following your instructions. I'll >>>>replace all the head bolts when I get time to put it all together >>>>later this week. >>>> >>>>Is there anything I should do while I have the head ofF? >>>> >>>>Is it woth having it crack tested or hardness tested? >>>> >>> >>> >>> > > |
Re: Head Bolts
Eightupman wrote:
> "jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message > news:RMadnXMuOtz9TD3cRVn-gA@comcast.com... > >>Eightupman wrote: >> >>>get the surface of the head planed at a local shop especially if you did > > not > >>>take the bolts out in reverse order of torque sequence. You should also >>>consider having the valves reseated, and magnafluxed to look for cracks. >> >>how do you magnaflux an alloy head? > > > > Glad you asked..with liquid penetrant materials and UV light. good! your handle implies detroit iron - some of the mustang guys a know, while sincere, are so stuck in that iron age, nothing else seeps through. [pun intended]. > > OK, your right, the word magnaflux is used incorrectly here, ,but the point > was to get the machine shop to check it for cracks, and most laymen know the > term magnaflux over LPI......any good machine shop will have the LPI > chemicals. > > Liquid Penetrant Inspection > > "LPI Inspection is a non-destructive test method that uses an oil-based > chemical solution of dye, visible or fluorescent, capable of migration in > surface openings. It is used to locate cracks in ferrous or non-ferrous > materials, as well as some ceramics and plastics Read FAQ > > Applications - Detecting surface flaws in non-porous parts. Typically used > in aerospace, castings, forgings, automotive, leak testing, general metal > work, power plants, etc." > > Above taken from http://www.magnaflux.com/products/overview.stm > > The small kit is CHEAP (ie, $12.00 on Ebay) for the serious DIY guys/gals > > This kit would have saved me from installing a used cracked head on a BMW > 325 a few years ago. Once the head was cleaned and dipped (the British guy > used a weak solution of Traffic Film Remover or TFR) that worked better to > clean alloy that I have EVER seen) the crack was invisible to our naked > eye. Only after it got hot did the crack expand enough to cause a leak. We > didn't catch the crack that ran right along parallel underneath the > camshaft. I'll never make that mistake again. > > Hope this is useful......... > > Eightupman > |
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