Rex Burkheimer

I'm out of ideas on this one, appealing to the experience of the group:

Bought a non-running 1991 CRX HF. It had stopped due to a broken camshaft,
and had been stored for 6 months. One of the cam bearing surfaces was
suspect, so I bought a used, head from a guy that had upgraded his. Cleaned
all up, replaced the bad head with new one. Now I cannot get the engine to
start. It cranks fine, and gives a few indications that it's trying but no
start. I can see a weak spark, but it's not enough to fire a timing light.

Here's what I've replaced:
1- Gaskets of course, bought a head set.
2 - timing belt, seals.
3 - New plugs
4 - new distributor
5 - Gas - drained tank, added fresh gas, bled filter and manifold.

I've re-checked the cam timing many times, and I'm certain it's right.
Distributor seems to be oriented right (not 180 out)
Moving the distributor through it's timing range by hand while cranking does
not make it fire.
I oiled the cylinders while it was apart so they wouldn't start up dry.
Plugs look good - not oil fouled.

So what am I missing? I've gotta think it needs a fatter spark, but the
only thing left is the ignition wires and I can't see all 4 going bad just
sitting. I'm ready to take it to a shop, but it's a major PITA to do that
this week.
Suggestions?

--
Rex Burkheimer
Fort Worth TX

John D.

If you have a weak spark, how about the coil (if you had a distributor
with points and condensor, I'd say check the coil and condensor)? You
haven't mentioned that component yet. You KNOW it's good? Coils RARELY
have problems but it is something you should check.

Put a known working coil on and see is the spark is stronger...borrow
one just for testing purposes, but if you have to buy one, at least
they're not too expensive, especially from a junked (auto salvage
yard) car. If your coil is in the distributor, as in some cars today
(don't know about 1991 era cars), then check it there.

As you probably know, a car has to have 3 things to fire: Air, gas and
a spark...assuming the timing is not messed up but that would affect
RUNNING, not starting.

Good luck,

John D.



"Rex Burkheimer" <burkheimer@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<CftVa.26205$Mc.2040808@newsread1.prod.itd.ea rthlink.net>...
> I'm out of ideas on this one, appealing to the experience of the group:
>
> Bought a non-running 1991 CRX HF. It had stopped due to a broken camshaft,
> and had been stored for 6 months. One of the cam bearing surfaces was
> suspect, so I bought a used, head from a guy that had upgraded his. Cleaned
> all up, replaced the bad head with new one. Now I cannot get the engine to
> start. It cranks fine, and gives a few indications that it's trying but no
> start. I can see a weak spark, but it's not enough to fire a timing light.
>
> Here's what I've replaced:
> 1- Gaskets of course, bought a head set.
> 2 - timing belt, seals.
> 3 - New plugs
> 4 - new distributor
> 5 - Gas - drained tank, added fresh gas, bled filter and manifold.
>
> I've re-checked the cam timing many times, and I'm certain it's right.
> Distributor seems to be oriented right (not 180 out)
> Moving the distributor through it's timing range by hand while cranking does
> not make it fire.
> I oiled the cylinders while it was apart so they wouldn't start up dry.
> Plugs look good - not oil fouled.
>
> So what am I missing? I've gotta think it needs a fatter spark, but the
> only thing left is the ignition wires and I can't see all 4 going bad just
> sitting. I'm ready to take it to a shop, but it's a major PITA to do that
> this week.
> Suggestions?

John D.

If you have a weak spark, how about the coil (if you had a distributor
with points and condensor, I'd say check the coil and condensor)? You
haven't mentioned that component yet. You KNOW it's good? Coils RARELY
have problems but it is something you should check.

Put a known working coil on and see is the spark is stronger...borrow
one just for testing purposes, but if you have to buy one, at least
they're not too expensive, especially from a junked (auto salvage
yard) car. If your coil is in the distributor, as in some cars today
(don't know about 1991 era cars), then check it there.

As you probably know, a car has to have 3 things to fire: Air, gas and
a spark...assuming the timing is not messed up but that would affect
RUNNING, not starting.

Good luck,

John D.



"Rex Burkheimer" <burkheimer@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<CftVa.26205$Mc.2040808@newsread1.prod.itd.ea rthlink.net>...
> I'm out of ideas on this one, appealing to the experience of the group:
>
> Bought a non-running 1991 CRX HF. It had stopped due to a broken camshaft,
> and had been stored for 6 months. One of the cam bearing surfaces was
> suspect, so I bought a used, head from a guy that had upgraded his. Cleaned
> all up, replaced the bad head with new one. Now I cannot get the engine to
> start. It cranks fine, and gives a few indications that it's trying but no
> start. I can see a weak spark, but it's not enough to fire a timing light.
>
> Here's what I've replaced:
> 1- Gaskets of course, bought a head set.
> 2 - timing belt, seals.
> 3 - New plugs
> 4 - new distributor
> 5 - Gas - drained tank, added fresh gas, bled filter and manifold.
>
> I've re-checked the cam timing many times, and I'm certain it's right.
> Distributor seems to be oriented right (not 180 out)
> Moving the distributor through it's timing range by hand while cranking does
> not make it fire.
> I oiled the cylinders while it was apart so they wouldn't start up dry.
> Plugs look good - not oil fouled.
>
> So what am I missing? I've gotta think it needs a fatter spark, but the
> only thing left is the ignition wires and I can't see all 4 going bad just
> sitting. I'm ready to take it to a shop, but it's a major PITA to do that
> this week.
> Suggestions?

John D.

Then maybe you're still off, even 180 degrees off although you say you
can't be. Check that aggain.

How do you know the spark it weak?

Go to your local auto store and buy one of those sparkplug spark
testers...they attach to the plug and then to a ground. Test the spark
ar night on all of them and note any difference in amount of spark. If
they are ALL have weak sparks, are you SURE the coil checks out okay?
I know it -- and the igniter -- is new, but you're sure it's not
defective? As for air, it needs to be in the proper ratio (with gas)
needs to be present..it's not flooding? Even with a GOOD spark, it
won't start flooded.

You may have to take this one to the pros, but then I am just a DIY
guy...maybe a good mechanic can nail it down.

I hope it's not your ECU.

John D.


NOSPAMrex@REMOVEtxol.net (Rex B) wrote in message news:<3f26e7c8.117017397@news.txol.net>...
> Coil is contained within the new distributor, brand new out of the box.
> So it's also new, along with cap, igniter etc.
> I can't check the timing without a spark strong enough to fire the timing light,
> but the range that you can turn the distributor is limited, and I've turned it
> through that range while cranking.
>
> BTW, battery is new and spins it fast for as long as I've dared to turn it over.
>
> I can smell fuel on the plugs when I pull one, so I know there is some in the
> cylinder. Air is presumed to be present also, although I may pull the ductwork
> off the end.
>
> Thanks
>
> On 29 Jul 2003 11:51:52 -0700, jcdech@hotmail.com (John D.) wrote:
>
> |If you have a weak spark, how about the coil (if you had a distributor
> |with points and condensor, I'd say check the coil and condensor)? You
> |haven't mentioned that component yet. You KNOW it's good? Coils RARELY
> |have problems but it is something you should check.
> |
> |Put a known working coil on and see is the spark is stronger...borrow
> |one just for testing purposes, but if you have to buy one, at least
> |they're not too expensive, especially from a junked (auto salvage
> |yard) car. If your coil is in the distributor, as in some cars today
> |(don't know about 1991 era cars), then check it there.
> |
> |As you probably know, a car has to have 3 things to fire: Air, gas and
> |a spark...assuming the timing is not messed up but that would affect
> |RUNNING, not starting.
> |
> |Good luck,
> |
> |John D.
> |
> |
> |
> |"Rex Burkheimer" <burkheimer@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:<CftVa.26205$Mc.2040808@newsread1.prod.itd.ea rthlink.net>...
> |> I'm out of ideas on this one, appealing to the experience of the group:
> |>
> |> Bought a non-running 1991 CRX HF. It had stopped due to a broken camshaft,
> |> and had been stored for 6 months. One of the cam bearing surfaces was
> |> suspect, so I bought a used, head from a guy that had upgraded his. Cleaned
> |> all up, replaced the bad head with new one. Now I cannot get the engine to
> |> start. It cranks fine, and gives a few indications that it's trying but no
> |> start. I can see a weak spark, but it's not enough to fire a timing light.
> |>
> |> Here's what I've replaced:
> |> 1- Gaskets of course, bought a head set.
> |> 2 - timing belt, seals.
> |> 3 - New plugs
> |> 4 - new distributor
> |> 5 - Gas - drained tank, added fresh gas, bled filter and manifold.
> |>
> |> I've re-checked the cam timing many times, and I'm certain it's right.
> |> Distributor seems to be oriented right (not 180 out)
> |> Moving the distributor through it's timing range by hand while cranking does
> |> not make it fire.
> |> I oiled the cylinders while it was apart so they wouldn't start up dry.
> |> Plugs look good - not oil fouled.
> |>
> |> So what am I missing? I've gotta think it needs a fatter spark, but the
> |> only thing left is the ignition wires and I can't see all 4 going bad just
> |> sitting. I'm ready to take it to a shop, but it's a major PITA to do that
> |> this week.
> |> Suggestions?

John D.

Then maybe you're still off, even 180 degrees off although you say you
can't be. Check that aggain.

How do you know the spark it weak?

Go to your local auto store and buy one of those sparkplug spark
testers...they attach to the plug and then to a ground. Test the spark
ar night on all of them and note any difference in amount of spark. If
they are ALL have weak sparks, are you SURE the coil checks out okay?
I know it -- and the igniter -- is new, but you're sure it's not
defective? As for air, it needs to be in the proper ratio (with gas)
needs to be present..it's not flooding? Even with a GOOD spark, it
won't start flooded.

You may have to take this one to the pros, but then I am just a DIY
guy...maybe a good mechanic can nail it down.

I hope it's not your ECU.

John D.


NOSPAMrex@REMOVEtxol.net (Rex B) wrote in message news:<3f26e7c8.117017397@news.txol.net>...
> Coil is contained within the new distributor, brand new out of the box.
> So it's also new, along with cap, igniter etc.
> I can't check the timing without a spark strong enough to fire the timing light,
> but the range that you can turn the distributor is limited, and I've turned it
> through that range while cranking.
>
> BTW, battery is new and spins it fast for as long as I've dared to turn it over.
>
> I can smell fuel on the plugs when I pull one, so I know there is some in the
> cylinder. Air is presumed to be present also, although I may pull the ductwork
> off the end.
>
> Thanks
>
> On 29 Jul 2003 11:51:52 -0700, jcdech@hotmail.com (John D.) wrote:
>
> |If you have a weak spark, how about the coil (if you had a distributor
> |with points and condensor, I'd say check the coil and condensor)? You
> |haven't mentioned that component yet. You KNOW it's good? Coils RARELY
> |have problems but it is something you should check.
> |
> |Put a known working coil on and see is the spark is stronger...borrow
> |one just for testing purposes, but if you have to buy one, at least
> |they're not too expensive, especially from a junked (auto salvage
> |yard) car. If your coil is in the distributor, as in some cars today
> |(don't know about 1991 era cars), then check it there.
> |
> |As you probably know, a car has to have 3 things to fire: Air, gas and
> |a spark...assuming the timing is not messed up but that would affect
> |RUNNING, not starting.
> |
> |Good luck,
> |
> |John D.
> |
> |
> |
> |"Rex Burkheimer" <burkheimer@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:<CftVa.26205$Mc.2040808@newsread1.prod.itd.ea rthlink.net>...
> |> I'm out of ideas on this one, appealing to the experience of the group:
> |>
> |> Bought a non-running 1991 CRX HF. It had stopped due to a broken camshaft,
> |> and had been stored for 6 months. One of the cam bearing surfaces was
> |> suspect, so I bought a used, head from a guy that had upgraded his. Cleaned
> |> all up, replaced the bad head with new one. Now I cannot get the engine to
> |> start. It cranks fine, and gives a few indications that it's trying but no
> |> start. I can see a weak spark, but it's not enough to fire a timing light.
> |>
> |> Here's what I've replaced:
> |> 1- Gaskets of course, bought a head set.
> |> 2 - timing belt, seals.
> |> 3 - New plugs
> |> 4 - new distributor
> |> 5 - Gas - drained tank, added fresh gas, bled filter and manifold.
> |>
> |> I've re-checked the cam timing many times, and I'm certain it's right.
> |> Distributor seems to be oriented right (not 180 out)
> |> Moving the distributor through it's timing range by hand while cranking does
> |> not make it fire.
> |> I oiled the cylinders while it was apart so they wouldn't start up dry.
> |> Plugs look good - not oil fouled.
> |>
> |> So what am I missing? I've gotta think it needs a fatter spark, but the
> |> only thing left is the ignition wires and I can't see all 4 going bad just
> |> sitting. I'm ready to take it to a shop, but it's a major PITA to do that
> |> this week.
> |> Suggestions?

Rex B

Well, I got the CRX going last night.
I thought the plugs were new. They weren't so I changed them.
While they were out I squirted some fresh oil in each cylinder.
Nothing much changed, but the battery was running down.
So I connected a charger for a few minutes, then I got impatient and hooked up
my booster pak. Now it spun a lot faster and fired for a few rounds until
it died again. The timing light was now working too. I let it charge a little
longer, tried again. It fired again, but I had to keep cranking to keep it
running until it was able to sustain itself. After that it was OK.

Conclusion? I guess that althought the battery was fresh, and constantly on
maintainer charge, it had enough juice to crank but not enough to energize the
ignition. The booster pak brought it up enough to fire.
Had I monitored voltage while cranking I might have caught this sooner, but I
didn't have an easy way to do this with just two hands. Unloaded battery
voltage was 12.55 which should indicate a full change. Besides, most cars that
crank that fast have plenty of volts for ignition. Perhaps because this is an
HF with some miles on it it spins very freely even with low voltage.

On Tue, 29 Jul 2003 21:39:42 GMT, NOSPAMrex@REMOVEtxol.net (Rex B) wrote:

|Coil is contained within the new distributor, brand new out of the box.
|So it's also new, along with cap, igniter etc.
|I can't check the timing without a spark strong enough to fire the timing
light,
|but the range that you can turn the distributor is limited, and I've turned it
|through that range while cranking.
|
|BTW, battery is new and spins it fast for as long as I've dared to turn it
over.
|
|I can smell fuel on the plugs when I pull one, so I know there is some in the
|cylinder. Air is presumed to be present also, although I may pull the
ductwork
|off the end.
|
|Thanks
|
|On 29 Jul 2003 11:51:52 -0700, jcdech@hotmail.com (John D.) wrote:
|
||If you have a weak spark, how about the coil (if you had a distributor
||with points and condensor, I'd say check the coil and condensor)? You
||haven't mentioned that component yet. You KNOW it's good? Coils RARELY
||have problems but it is something you should check.
||
||Put a known working coil on and see is the spark is stronger...borrow
||one just for testing purposes, but if you have to buy one, at least
||they're not too expensive, especially from a junked (auto salvage
||yard) car. If your coil is in the distributor, as in some cars today
||(don't know about 1991 era cars), then check it there.
||
||As you probably know, a car has to have 3 things to fire: Air, gas and
||a spark...assuming the timing is not messed up but that would affect
||RUNNING, not starting.
||
||Good luck,
||
||John D.
||
||
||
||"Rex Burkheimer" <burkheimer@earthlink.net> wrote in message
|news:<CftVa.26205$Mc.2040808@newsread1.prod.itd.e arthlink.net>...
||> I'm out of ideas on this one, appealing to the experience of the group:
||>
||> Bought a non-running 1991 CRX HF. It had stopped due to a broken camshaft,
||> and had been stored for 6 months. One of the cam bearing surfaces was
||> suspect, so I bought a used, head from a guy that had upgraded his. Cleaned
||> all up, replaced the bad head with new one. Now I cannot get the engine to
||> start. It cranks fine, and gives a few indications that it's trying but no
||> start. I can see a weak spark, but it's not enough to fire a timing light.
||>
||> Here's what I've replaced:
||> 1- Gaskets of course, bought a head set.
||> 2 - timing belt, seals.
||> 3 - New plugs
||> 4 - new distributor
||> 5 - Gas - drained tank, added fresh gas, bled filter and manifold.
||>
||> I've re-checked the cam timing many times, and I'm certain it's right.
||> Distributor seems to be oriented right (not 180 out)
||> Moving the distributor through it's timing range by hand while cranking does
||> not make it fire.
||> I oiled the cylinders while it was apart so they wouldn't start up dry.
||> Plugs look good - not oil fouled.
||>
||> So what am I missing? I've gotta think it needs a fatter spark, but the
||> only thing left is the ignition wires and I can't see all 4 going bad just
||> sitting. I'm ready to take it to a shop, but it's a major PITA to do that
||> this week.
||> Suggestions?
|

Rex B

Well, I got the CRX going last night.
I thought the plugs were new. They weren't so I changed them.
While they were out I squirted some fresh oil in each cylinder.
Nothing much changed, but the battery was running down.
So I connected a charger for a few minutes, then I got impatient and hooked up
my booster pak. Now it spun a lot faster and fired for a few rounds until
it died again. The timing light was now working too. I let it charge a little
longer, tried again. It fired again, but I had to keep cranking to keep it
running until it was able to sustain itself. After that it was OK.

Conclusion? I guess that althought the battery was fresh, and constantly on
maintainer charge, it had enough juice to crank but not enough to energize the
ignition. The booster pak brought it up enough to fire.
Had I monitored voltage while cranking I might have caught this sooner, but I
didn't have an easy way to do this with just two hands. Unloaded battery
voltage was 12.55 which should indicate a full change. Besides, most cars that
crank that fast have plenty of volts for ignition. Perhaps because this is an
HF with some miles on it it spins very freely even with low voltage.

On Tue, 29 Jul 2003 21:39:42 GMT, NOSPAMrex@REMOVEtxol.net (Rex B) wrote:

|Coil is contained within the new distributor, brand new out of the box.
|So it's also new, along with cap, igniter etc.
|I can't check the timing without a spark strong enough to fire the timing
light,
|but the range that you can turn the distributor is limited, and I've turned it
|through that range while cranking.
|
|BTW, battery is new and spins it fast for as long as I've dared to turn it
over.
|
|I can smell fuel on the plugs when I pull one, so I know there is some in the
|cylinder. Air is presumed to be present also, although I may pull the
ductwork
|off the end.
|
|Thanks
|
|On 29 Jul 2003 11:51:52 -0700, jcdech@hotmail.com (John D.) wrote:
|
||If you have a weak spark, how about the coil (if you had a distributor
||with points and condensor, I'd say check the coil and condensor)? You
||haven't mentioned that component yet. You KNOW it's good? Coils RARELY
||have problems but it is something you should check.
||
||Put a known working coil on and see is the spark is stronger...borrow
||one just for testing purposes, but if you have to buy one, at least
||they're not too expensive, especially from a junked (auto salvage
||yard) car. If your coil is in the distributor, as in some cars today
||(don't know about 1991 era cars), then check it there.
||
||As you probably know, a car has to have 3 things to fire: Air, gas and
||a spark...assuming the timing is not messed up but that would affect
||RUNNING, not starting.
||
||Good luck,
||
||John D.
||
||
||
||"Rex Burkheimer" <burkheimer@earthlink.net> wrote in message
|news:<CftVa.26205$Mc.2040808@newsread1.prod.itd.e arthlink.net>...
||> I'm out of ideas on this one, appealing to the experience of the group:
||>
||> Bought a non-running 1991 CRX HF. It had stopped due to a broken camshaft,
||> and had been stored for 6 months. One of the cam bearing surfaces was
||> suspect, so I bought a used, head from a guy that had upgraded his. Cleaned
||> all up, replaced the bad head with new one. Now I cannot get the engine to
||> start. It cranks fine, and gives a few indications that it's trying but no
||> start. I can see a weak spark, but it's not enough to fire a timing light.
||>
||> Here's what I've replaced:
||> 1- Gaskets of course, bought a head set.
||> 2 - timing belt, seals.
||> 3 - New plugs
||> 4 - new distributor
||> 5 - Gas - drained tank, added fresh gas, bled filter and manifold.
||>
||> I've re-checked the cam timing many times, and I'm certain it's right.
||> Distributor seems to be oriented right (not 180 out)
||> Moving the distributor through it's timing range by hand while cranking does
||> not make it fire.
||> I oiled the cylinders while it was apart so they wouldn't start up dry.
||> Plugs look good - not oil fouled.
||>
||> So what am I missing? I've gotta think it needs a fatter spark, but the
||> only thing left is the ignition wires and I can't see all 4 going bad just
||> sitting. I'm ready to take it to a shop, but it's a major PITA to do that
||> this week.
||> Suggestions?
|

John D.

>Besides, most cars that crank that fast
>have plenty of volts for ignition.

Yes, I agree. That's why it's hard to believe it was your
battery...the starter requires A LOT of juice from it...it can spin
the starter yet it can't start the car? Unbelievable. Again, it sounds
like the coil not building up volts to the spark enough. But you got
it running.

Still, don't become complacent and think it's over...it may not be
yet.

Good luck though,

John D.





NOSPAMrex@REMOVEtxol.net (Rex B) wrote in message news:<3f291d5d.261828249@news.txol.net>...
> Well, I got the CRX going last night.
> I thought the plugs were new. They weren't so I changed them.
> While they were out I squirted some fresh oil in each cylinder.
> Nothing much changed, but the battery was running down.
> So I connected a charger for a few minutes, then I got impatient and hooked up
> my booster pak. Now it spun a lot faster and fired for a few rounds until
> it died again. The timing light was now working too. I let it charge a little
> longer, tried again. It fired again, but I had to keep cranking to keep it
> running until it was able to sustain itself. After that it was OK.
>
> Conclusion? I guess that althought the battery was fresh, and constantly on
> maintainer charge, it had enough juice to crank but not enough to energize the
> ignition. The booster pak brought it up enough to fire.
> Had I monitored voltage while cranking I might have caught this sooner, but I
> didn't have an easy way to do this with just two hands. Unloaded battery
> voltage was 12.55 which should indicate a full change. Besides, most cars that
> crank that fast have plenty of volts for ignition. Perhaps because this is an
> HF with some miles on it it spins very freely even with low voltage.
>
> On Tue, 29 Jul 2003 21:39:42 GMT, NOSPAMrex@REMOVEtxol.net (Rex B) wrote:
>
> |Coil is contained within the new distributor, brand new out of the box.
> |So it's also new, along with cap, igniter etc.
> |I can't check the timing without a spark strong enough to fire the timing
> light,
> |but the range that you can turn the distributor is limited, and I've turned it
> |through that range while cranking.
> |
> |BTW, battery is new and spins it fast for as long as I've dared to turn it
> over.
> |
> |I can smell fuel on the plugs when I pull one, so I know there is some in the
> |cylinder. Air is presumed to be present also, although I may pull the
> ductwork
> |off the end.
> |
> |Thanks
> |
> |On 29 Jul 2003 11:51:52 -0700, jcdech@hotmail.com (John D.) wrote:
> |
> ||If you have a weak spark, how about the coil (if you had a distributor
> ||with points and condensor, I'd say check the coil and condensor)? You
> ||haven't mentioned that component yet. You KNOW it's good? Coils RARELY
> ||have problems but it is something you should check.
> ||
> ||Put a known working coil on and see is the spark is stronger...borrow
> ||one just for testing purposes, but if you have to buy one, at least
> ||they're not too expensive, especially from a junked (auto salvage
> ||yard) car. If your coil is in the distributor, as in some cars today
> ||(don't know about 1991 era cars), then check it there.
> ||
> ||As you probably know, a car has to have 3 things to fire: Air, gas and
> ||a spark...assuming the timing is not messed up but that would affect
> ||RUNNING, not starting.
> ||
> ||Good luck,
> ||
> ||John D.
> ||
> ||
> ||
> ||"Rex Burkheimer" <burkheimer@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:<CftVa.26205$Mc.2040808@newsread1.prod.itd.ea rthlink.net>...
> ||> I'm out of ideas on this one, appealing to the experience of the group:
> ||>
> ||> Bought a non-running 1991 CRX HF. It had stopped due to a broken camshaft,
> ||> and had been stored for 6 months. One of the cam bearing surfaces was
> ||> suspect, so I bought a used, head from a guy that had upgraded his. Cleaned
> ||> all up, replaced the bad head with new one. Now I cannot get the engine to
> ||> start. It cranks fine, and gives a few indications that it's trying but no
> ||> start. I can see a weak spark, but it's not enough to fire a timing light.
> ||>
> ||> Here's what I've replaced:
> ||> 1- Gaskets of course, bought a head set.
> ||> 2 - timing belt, seals.
> ||> 3 - New plugs
> ||> 4 - new distributor
> ||> 5 - Gas - drained tank, added fresh gas, bled filter and manifold.
> ||>
> ||> I've re-checked the cam timing many times, and I'm certain it's right.
> ||> Distributor seems to be oriented right (not 180 out)
> ||> Moving the distributor through it's timing range by hand while cranking does
> ||> not make it fire.
> ||> I oiled the cylinders while it was apart so they wouldn't start up dry.
> ||> Plugs look good - not oil fouled.
> ||>
> ||> So what am I missing? I've gotta think it needs a fatter spark, but the
> ||> only thing left is the ignition wires and I can't see all 4 going bad just
> ||> sitting. I'm ready to take it to a shop, but it's a major PITA to do that
> ||> this week.
> ||> Suggestions?
> |

John D.

>Besides, most cars that crank that fast
>have plenty of volts for ignition.

Yes, I agree. That's why it's hard to believe it was your
battery...the starter requires A LOT of juice from it...it can spin
the starter yet it can't start the car? Unbelievable. Again, it sounds
like the coil not building up volts to the spark enough. But you got
it running.

Still, don't become complacent and think it's over...it may not be
yet.

Good luck though,

John D.





NOSPAMrex@REMOVEtxol.net (Rex B) wrote in message news:<3f291d5d.261828249@news.txol.net>...
> Well, I got the CRX going last night.
> I thought the plugs were new. They weren't so I changed them.
> While they were out I squirted some fresh oil in each cylinder.
> Nothing much changed, but the battery was running down.
> So I connected a charger for a few minutes, then I got impatient and hooked up
> my booster pak. Now it spun a lot faster and fired for a few rounds until
> it died again. The timing light was now working too. I let it charge a little
> longer, tried again. It fired again, but I had to keep cranking to keep it
> running until it was able to sustain itself. After that it was OK.
>
> Conclusion? I guess that althought the battery was fresh, and constantly on
> maintainer charge, it had enough juice to crank but not enough to energize the
> ignition. The booster pak brought it up enough to fire.
> Had I monitored voltage while cranking I might have caught this sooner, but I
> didn't have an easy way to do this with just two hands. Unloaded battery
> voltage was 12.55 which should indicate a full change. Besides, most cars that
> crank that fast have plenty of volts for ignition. Perhaps because this is an
> HF with some miles on it it spins very freely even with low voltage.
>
> On Tue, 29 Jul 2003 21:39:42 GMT, NOSPAMrex@REMOVEtxol.net (Rex B) wrote:
>
> |Coil is contained within the new distributor, brand new out of the box.
> |So it's also new, along with cap, igniter etc.
> |I can't check the timing without a spark strong enough to fire the timing
> light,
> |but the range that you can turn the distributor is limited, and I've turned it
> |through that range while cranking.
> |
> |BTW, battery is new and spins it fast for as long as I've dared to turn it
> over.
> |
> |I can smell fuel on the plugs when I pull one, so I know there is some in the
> |cylinder. Air is presumed to be present also, although I may pull the
> ductwork
> |off the end.
> |
> |Thanks
> |
> |On 29 Jul 2003 11:51:52 -0700, jcdech@hotmail.com (John D.) wrote:
> |
> ||If you have a weak spark, how about the coil (if you had a distributor
> ||with points and condensor, I'd say check the coil and condensor)? You
> ||haven't mentioned that component yet. You KNOW it's good? Coils RARELY
> ||have problems but it is something you should check.
> ||
> ||Put a known working coil on and see is the spark is stronger...borrow
> ||one just for testing purposes, but if you have to buy one, at least
> ||they're not too expensive, especially from a junked (auto salvage
> ||yard) car. If your coil is in the distributor, as in some cars today
> ||(don't know about 1991 era cars), then check it there.
> ||
> ||As you probably know, a car has to have 3 things to fire: Air, gas and
> ||a spark...assuming the timing is not messed up but that would affect
> ||RUNNING, not starting.
> ||
> ||Good luck,
> ||
> ||John D.
> ||
> ||
> ||
> ||"Rex Burkheimer" <burkheimer@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:<CftVa.26205$Mc.2040808@newsread1.prod.itd.ea rthlink.net>...
> ||> I'm out of ideas on this one, appealing to the experience of the group:
> ||>
> ||> Bought a non-running 1991 CRX HF. It had stopped due to a broken camshaft,
> ||> and had been stored for 6 months. One of the cam bearing surfaces was
> ||> suspect, so I bought a used, head from a guy that had upgraded his. Cleaned
> ||> all up, replaced the bad head with new one. Now I cannot get the engine to
> ||> start. It cranks fine, and gives a few indications that it's trying but no
> ||> start. I can see a weak spark, but it's not enough to fire a timing light.
> ||>
> ||> Here's what I've replaced:
> ||> 1- Gaskets of course, bought a head set.
> ||> 2 - timing belt, seals.
> ||> 3 - New plugs
> ||> 4 - new distributor
> ||> 5 - Gas - drained tank, added fresh gas, bled filter and manifold.
> ||>
> ||> I've re-checked the cam timing many times, and I'm certain it's right.
> ||> Distributor seems to be oriented right (not 180 out)
> ||> Moving the distributor through it's timing range by hand while cranking does
> ||> not make it fire.
> ||> I oiled the cylinders while it was apart so they wouldn't start up dry.
> ||> Plugs look good - not oil fouled.
> ||>
> ||> So what am I missing? I've gotta think it needs a fatter spark, but the
> ||> only thing left is the ignition wires and I can't see all 4 going bad just
> ||> sitting. I'm ready to take it to a shop, but it's a major PITA to do that
> ||> this week.
> ||> Suggestions?
> |

Bob Burns

Had a similar problem with my '94 Integra. New plugs didn't help, but new
plug wires solved the problem.

Good luck!

--
Bob Burns
Mill Hall PA


"John D." <jcdech@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:e821bab6.0307311210.1b8637f0@posting.google.c om...
> >Besides, most cars that crank that fast
> >have plenty of volts for ignition.
>
> Yes, I agree. That's why it's hard to believe it was your
> battery...the starter requires A LOT of juice from it...it can spin
> the starter yet it can't start the car? Unbelievable. Again, it sounds
> like the coil not building up volts to the spark enough. But you got
> it running.
>
> Still, don't become complacent and think it's over...it may not be
> yet.
>
> Good luck though,
>
> John D.
>
>
>
>
>
> NOSPAMrex@REMOVEtxol.net (Rex B) wrote in message
news:<3f291d5d.261828249@news.txol.net>...
> > Well, I got the CRX going last night.
> > I thought the plugs were new. They weren't so I changed them.
> > While they were out I squirted some fresh oil in each cylinder.
> > Nothing much changed, but the battery was running down.
> > So I connected a charger for a few minutes, then I got impatient and
hooked up
> > my booster pak. Now it spun a lot faster and fired for a few rounds
until
> > it died again. The timing light was now working too. I let it charge a
little
> > longer, tried again. It fired again, but I had to keep cranking to keep
it
> > running until it was able to sustain itself. After that it was OK.
> >
> > Conclusion? I guess that althought the battery was fresh, and
constantly on
> > maintainer charge, it had enough juice to crank but not enough to
energize the
> > ignition. The booster pak brought it up enough to fire.
> > Had I monitored voltage while cranking I might have caught this
sooner, but I
> > didn't have an easy way to do this with just two hands. Unloaded
battery
> > voltage was 12.55 which should indicate a full change. Besides, most
cars that
> > crank that fast have plenty of volts for ignition. Perhaps because
this is an
> > HF with some miles on it it spins very freely even with low voltage.
> >
> > On Tue, 29 Jul 2003 21:39:42 GMT, NOSPAMrex@REMOVEtxol.net (Rex B)
wrote:
> >
> > |Coil is contained within the new distributor, brand new out of the box.
> > |So it's also new, along with cap, igniter etc.
> > |I can't check the timing without a spark strong enough to fire the
timing
> > light,
> > |but the range that you can turn the distributor is limited, and I've
turned it
> > |through that range while cranking.
> > |
> > |BTW, battery is new and spins it fast for as long as I've dared to turn
it
> > over.
> > |
> > |I can smell fuel on the plugs when I pull one, so I know there is some
in the
> > |cylinder. Air is presumed to be present also, although I may pull the
> > ductwork
> > |off the end.
> > |
> > |Thanks
> > |
> > |On 29 Jul 2003 11:51:52 -0700, jcdech@hotmail.com (John D.) wrote:
> > |
> > ||If you have a weak spark, how about the coil (if you had a distributor
> > ||with points and condensor, I'd say check the coil and condensor)? You
> > ||haven't mentioned that component yet. You KNOW it's good? Coils RARELY
> > ||have problems but it is something you should check.
> > ||
> > ||Put a known working coil on and see is the spark is stronger...borrow
> > ||one just for testing purposes, but if you have to buy one, at least
> > ||they're not too expensive, especially from a junked (auto salvage
> > ||yard) car. If your coil is in the distributor, as in some cars today
> > ||(don't know about 1991 era cars), then check it there.
> > ||
> > ||As you probably know, a car has to have 3 things to fire: Air, gas and
> > ||a spark...assuming the timing is not messed up but that would affect
> > ||RUNNING, not starting.
> > ||
> > ||Good luck,
> > ||
> > ||John D.
> > ||
> > ||
> > ||
> > ||"Rex Burkheimer" <burkheimer@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> > news:<CftVa.26205$Mc.2040808@newsread1.prod.itd.ea rthlink.net>...
> > ||> I'm out of ideas on this one, appealing to the experience of the
group:
> > ||>
> > ||> Bought a non-running 1991 CRX HF. It had stopped due to a broken
camshaft,
> > ||> and had been stored for 6 months. One of the cam bearing surfaces
was
> > ||> suspect, so I bought a used, head from a guy that had upgraded his.
Cleaned
> > ||> all up, replaced the bad head with new one. Now I cannot get the
engine to
> > ||> start. It cranks fine, and gives a few indications that it's trying
but no
> > ||> start. I can see a weak spark, but it's not enough to fire a timing
light.
> > ||>
> > ||> Here's what I've replaced:
> > ||> 1- Gaskets of course, bought a head set.
> > ||> 2 - timing belt, seals.
> > ||> 3 - New plugs
> > ||> 4 - new distributor
> > ||> 5 - Gas - drained tank, added fresh gas, bled filter and manifold.
> > ||>
> > ||> I've re-checked the cam timing many times, and I'm certain it's
right.
> > ||> Distributor seems to be oriented right (not 180 out)
> > ||> Moving the distributor through it's timing range by hand while
cranking does
> > ||> not make it fire.
> > ||> I oiled the cylinders while it was apart so they wouldn't start up
dry.
> > ||> Plugs look good - not oil fouled.
> > ||>
> > ||> So what am I missing? I've gotta think it needs a fatter spark,
but the
> > ||> only thing left is the ignition wires and I can't see all 4 going
bad just
> > ||> sitting. I'm ready to take it to a shop, but it's a major PITA to do
that
> > ||> this week.
> > ||> Suggestions?
> > |

Bob Burns

Had a similar problem with my '94 Integra. New plugs didn't help, but new
plug wires solved the problem.

Good luck!

--
Bob Burns
Mill Hall PA


"John D." <jcdech@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:e821bab6.0307311210.1b8637f0@posting.google.c om...
> >Besides, most cars that crank that fast
> >have plenty of volts for ignition.
>
> Yes, I agree. That's why it's hard to believe it was your
> battery...the starter requires A LOT of juice from it...it can spin
> the starter yet it can't start the car? Unbelievable. Again, it sounds
> like the coil not building up volts to the spark enough. But you got
> it running.
>
> Still, don't become complacent and think it's over...it may not be
> yet.
>
> Good luck though,
>
> John D.
>
>
>
>
>
> NOSPAMrex@REMOVEtxol.net (Rex B) wrote in message
news:<3f291d5d.261828249@news.txol.net>...
> > Well, I got the CRX going last night.
> > I thought the plugs were new. They weren't so I changed them.
> > While they were out I squirted some fresh oil in each cylinder.
> > Nothing much changed, but the battery was running down.
> > So I connected a charger for a few minutes, then I got impatient and
hooked up
> > my booster pak. Now it spun a lot faster and fired for a few rounds
until
> > it died again. The timing light was now working too. I let it charge a
little
> > longer, tried again. It fired again, but I had to keep cranking to keep
it
> > running until it was able to sustain itself. After that it was OK.
> >
> > Conclusion? I guess that althought the battery was fresh, and
constantly on
> > maintainer charge, it had enough juice to crank but not enough to
energize the
> > ignition. The booster pak brought it up enough to fire.
> > Had I monitored voltage while cranking I might have caught this
sooner, but I
> > didn't have an easy way to do this with just two hands. Unloaded
battery
> > voltage was 12.55 which should indicate a full change. Besides, most
cars that
> > crank that fast have plenty of volts for ignition. Perhaps because
this is an
> > HF with some miles on it it spins very freely even with low voltage.
> >
> > On Tue, 29 Jul 2003 21:39:42 GMT, NOSPAMrex@REMOVEtxol.net (Rex B)
wrote:
> >
> > |Coil is contained within the new distributor, brand new out of the box.
> > |So it's also new, along with cap, igniter etc.
> > |I can't check the timing without a spark strong enough to fire the
timing
> > light,
> > |but the range that you can turn the distributor is limited, and I've
turned it
> > |through that range while cranking.
> > |
> > |BTW, battery is new and spins it fast for as long as I've dared to turn
it
> > over.
> > |
> > |I can smell fuel on the plugs when I pull one, so I know there is some
in the
> > |cylinder. Air is presumed to be present also, although I may pull the
> > ductwork
> > |off the end.
> > |
> > |Thanks
> > |
> > |On 29 Jul 2003 11:51:52 -0700, jcdech@hotmail.com (John D.) wrote:
> > |
> > ||If you have a weak spark, how about the coil (if you had a distributor
> > ||with points and condensor, I'd say check the coil and condensor)? You
> > ||haven't mentioned that component yet. You KNOW it's good? Coils RARELY
> > ||have problems but it is something you should check.
> > ||
> > ||Put a known working coil on and see is the spark is stronger...borrow
> > ||one just for testing purposes, but if you have to buy one, at least
> > ||they're not too expensive, especially from a junked (auto salvage
> > ||yard) car. If your coil is in the distributor, as in some cars today
> > ||(don't know about 1991 era cars), then check it there.
> > ||
> > ||As you probably know, a car has to have 3 things to fire: Air, gas and
> > ||a spark...assuming the timing is not messed up but that would affect
> > ||RUNNING, not starting.
> > ||
> > ||Good luck,
> > ||
> > ||John D.
> > ||
> > ||
> > ||
> > ||"Rex Burkheimer" <burkheimer@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> > news:<CftVa.26205$Mc.2040808@newsread1.prod.itd.ea rthlink.net>...
> > ||> I'm out of ideas on this one, appealing to the experience of the
group:
> > ||>
> > ||> Bought a non-running 1991 CRX HF. It had stopped due to a broken
camshaft,
> > ||> and had been stored for 6 months. One of the cam bearing surfaces
was
> > ||> suspect, so I bought a used, head from a guy that had upgraded his.
Cleaned
> > ||> all up, replaced the bad head with new one. Now I cannot get the
engine to
> > ||> start. It cranks fine, and gives a few indications that it's trying
but no
> > ||> start. I can see a weak spark, but it's not enough to fire a timing
light.
> > ||>
> > ||> Here's what I've replaced:
> > ||> 1- Gaskets of course, bought a head set.
> > ||> 2 - timing belt, seals.
> > ||> 3 - New plugs
> > ||> 4 - new distributor
> > ||> 5 - Gas - drained tank, added fresh gas, bled filter and manifold.
> > ||>
> > ||> I've re-checked the cam timing many times, and I'm certain it's
right.
> > ||> Distributor seems to be oriented right (not 180 out)
> > ||> Moving the distributor through it's timing range by hand while
cranking does
> > ||> not make it fire.
> > ||> I oiled the cylinders while it was apart so they wouldn't start up
dry.
> > ||> Plugs look good - not oil fouled.
> > ||>
> > ||> So what am I missing? I've gotta think it needs a fatter spark,
but the
> > ||> only thing left is the ignition wires and I can't see all 4 going
bad just
> > ||> sitting. I'm ready to take it to a shop, but it's a major PITA to do
that
> > ||> this week.
> > ||> Suggestions?
> > |