Re: Honda drive train life expectancy
 

"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in
news:elmop-8A13C0.18081224092006@nntp1.usenetserver.com:

> In article <UvCRg.6737$%i.2457@tornado.socal.rr.com>,
> Ike <binarydotike@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> How long should such a drive train last assuming proper maintenance,
>> etc?
>
> Well, my 92 Civic Si is at 150K miles and still on the original
> clutch.



Got 255,763 miles out of my original clutch. And the only reason it
needed to be replaced that soon had to do with the grease on the input
shaft splines. Had that not been a problem, my mechanic thinks I might
have got another 5 or 10K before both faces got down to the rivets.

I currently have 274,791 miles on my '91 'Teg. Oil consumption at the
moment is about 1,600 miles per US quart. After a huge amount of
investigation, research (and some expenditure), I have come to the
conclusion that my short engine lifespan is due to undergearing. The
Integra was marketed as a "sporty" car, and Honda geared it low for
spirited acceleration.

I spend about 85-90% of my driving on the highway at speeds between 75
and 85 mph, common velocities in my area. This means my little mill is
buzzing along at around 4,000rpm most of the time, with the attendant
high piston speeds those revs entail. The rings don't last very well
under such stress, it seems.

Cars without sporting pretensions have much higher gearing. The CR-V
engine, for instance, is turning roughly 3,000rpm at 80, so I'd expect
its rings to have a longer life.




>
> Maintain it, fix things that break, and go on with your life. A Honda
> is genuinely an appliance. A pleasant one, in that it's not breaking
> the bank.
>
>


The new ones seem to have problems the old ones didn't. Lots of the
usual new-style EVAP issues, cats, and alternators. All of those really
add up in expenses. Mind you, all but the alternator seem to be endemic
to ALL makes, and you can thank the federal EPA for them.



--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Re: Honda drive train life expectancy
 

In article <Xns9848BA89DF99Ategger@207.14.116.130>,
"TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote:

> > Maintain it, fix things that break, and go on with your life. A Honda
> > is genuinely an appliance. A pleasant one, in that it's not breaking
> > the bank.
> >
> >
>
>
> The new ones seem to have problems the old ones didn't.

That's true. Auto transmissions, anyone?

A 4 cylinder manual transmission Honda, though, is a jewel to
behold--and to last forever.

Re: Honda drive train life expectancy
 

In article <Xns9848BA89DF99Ategger@207.14.116.130>,
"TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote:

> > Maintain it, fix things that break, and go on with your life. A Honda
> > is genuinely an appliance. A pleasant one, in that it's not breaking
> > the bank.
> >
> >
>
>
> The new ones seem to have problems the old ones didn't.

That's true. Auto transmissions, anyone?

A 4 cylinder manual transmission Honda, though, is a jewel to
behold--and to last forever.

Re: Honda drive train life expectancy
 

In article <Xns9848BA89DF99Ategger@207.14.116.130>,
"TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote:

> > Maintain it, fix things that break, and go on with your life. A Honda
> > is genuinely an appliance. A pleasant one, in that it's not breaking
> > the bank.
> >
> >
>
>
> The new ones seem to have problems the old ones didn't.

That's true. Auto transmissions, anyone?

A 4 cylinder manual transmission Honda, though, is a jewel to
behold--and to last forever.

Re: Honda drive train life expectancy
 

"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in
news:elmop-F9D536.18381524092006@nntp1.usenetserver.com:

> In article <Xns9848BA89DF99Ategger@207.14.116.130>,
> "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote:
>
>> > Maintain it, fix things that break, and go on with your life. A
>> > Honda is genuinely an appliance. A pleasant one, in that it's not
>> > breaking the bank.
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> The new ones seem to have problems the old ones didn't.
>
> That's true. Auto transmissions, anyone?



Well, only '96 to '00, really. And only certain engines and VINs. And
Honda is pretty lenient with warranty replacements, so...



>
> A 4 cylinder manual transmission Honda, though, is a jewel to
> behold--and to last forever.
>
>


That's a good point. My 5-speed tranny is entirely original, with the
same mileage as the engine. The bearings are a bit noisy, but nothing
that would demand attention within the next year or two.

Could you have imagined such a thing in 1970? An engine and transmission
combo that would last 300K? My dad had a '58 Dodge Regent (Dodge Royal
in the US) with the 318 and 2-speed push-button Powerflite. He got
140,000 miles out of it by 1971, which was an astonishing mileage for
the time. But by then the car was at the end of its life.



--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Re: Honda drive train life expectancy
 

"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in
news:elmop-F9D536.18381524092006@nntp1.usenetserver.com:

> In article <Xns9848BA89DF99Ategger@207.14.116.130>,
> "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote:
>
>> > Maintain it, fix things that break, and go on with your life. A
>> > Honda is genuinely an appliance. A pleasant one, in that it's not
>> > breaking the bank.
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> The new ones seem to have problems the old ones didn't.
>
> That's true. Auto transmissions, anyone?



Well, only '96 to '00, really. And only certain engines and VINs. And
Honda is pretty lenient with warranty replacements, so...



>
> A 4 cylinder manual transmission Honda, though, is a jewel to
> behold--and to last forever.
>
>


That's a good point. My 5-speed tranny is entirely original, with the
same mileage as the engine. The bearings are a bit noisy, but nothing
that would demand attention within the next year or two.

Could you have imagined such a thing in 1970? An engine and transmission
combo that would last 300K? My dad had a '58 Dodge Regent (Dodge Royal
in the US) with the 318 and 2-speed push-button Powerflite. He got
140,000 miles out of it by 1971, which was an astonishing mileage for
the time. But by then the car was at the end of its life.



--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Re: Honda drive train life expectancy
 

"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in
news:elmop-F9D536.18381524092006@nntp1.usenetserver.com:

> In article <Xns9848BA89DF99Ategger@207.14.116.130>,
> "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote:
>
>> > Maintain it, fix things that break, and go on with your life. A
>> > Honda is genuinely an appliance. A pleasant one, in that it's not
>> > breaking the bank.
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> The new ones seem to have problems the old ones didn't.
>
> That's true. Auto transmissions, anyone?



Well, only '96 to '00, really. And only certain engines and VINs. And
Honda is pretty lenient with warranty replacements, so...



>
> A 4 cylinder manual transmission Honda, though, is a jewel to
> behold--and to last forever.
>
>


That's a good point. My 5-speed tranny is entirely original, with the
same mileage as the engine. The bearings are a bit noisy, but nothing
that would demand attention within the next year or two.

Could you have imagined such a thing in 1970? An engine and transmission
combo that would last 300K? My dad had a '58 Dodge Regent (Dodge Royal
in the US) with the 318 and 2-speed push-button Powerflite. He got
140,000 miles out of it by 1971, which was an astonishing mileage for
the time. But by then the car was at the end of its life.



--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Re: Honda drive train life expectancy
 

TeGGeR® wrote:

>> Maintain it, fix things that break, and go on with your life. A Honda
>> is genuinely an appliance. A pleasant one, in that it's not breaking
>> the bank.
>
> The new ones seem to have problems the old ones didn't. Lots of the
> usual new-style EVAP issues, cats, and alternators. All of those really
> add up in expenses. Mind you, all but the alternator seem to be endemic
> to ALL makes, and you can thank the federal EPA for them.

And let us not forget the increased use of electronics for throttle, auto
tranny, and numerous other things. Electronics do not necessarily make
things more reliable, especially when bugs are discovered after people buy
them. And again, this applies to all car manufacturers.

Re: Honda drive train life expectancy
 

TeGGeR® wrote:

>> Maintain it, fix things that break, and go on with your life. A Honda
>> is genuinely an appliance. A pleasant one, in that it's not breaking
>> the bank.
>
> The new ones seem to have problems the old ones didn't. Lots of the
> usual new-style EVAP issues, cats, and alternators. All of those really
> add up in expenses. Mind you, all but the alternator seem to be endemic
> to ALL makes, and you can thank the federal EPA for them.

And let us not forget the increased use of electronics for throttle, auto
tranny, and numerous other things. Electronics do not necessarily make
things more reliable, especially when bugs are discovered after people buy
them. And again, this applies to all car manufacturers.

Re: Honda drive train life expectancy
 

TeGGeR® wrote:

>> Maintain it, fix things that break, and go on with your life. A Honda
>> is genuinely an appliance. A pleasant one, in that it's not breaking
>> the bank.
>
> The new ones seem to have problems the old ones didn't. Lots of the
> usual new-style EVAP issues, cats, and alternators. All of those really
> add up in expenses. Mind you, all but the alternator seem to be endemic
> to ALL makes, and you can thank the federal EPA for them.

And let us not forget the increased use of electronics for throttle, auto
tranny, and numerous other things. Electronics do not necessarily make
things more reliable, especially when bugs are discovered after people buy
them. And again, this applies to all car manufacturers.

Re: Honda drive train life expectancy
 

In article <Xns9848C12582CEAtegger@207.14.116.130>,
"TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote:

> > That's true. Auto transmissions, anyone?
>
>
>
> Well, only '96 to '00, really. And only certain engines and VINs. And
> Honda is pretty lenient with warranty replacements, so...

They are lenient, but it's the 98 through 04 auto trans hooked to V6
engines that were miserable.

And that's not only one transmission, but two different
transmissions--the first was the 4 speed unit where they extended the
warranty, and the second was the 5 speed unit that cost them $360
million to fix.

Those transmissions are the legacy of the days when Honda let the
beancounters take over from the engineers.

Re: Honda drive train life expectancy
 

In article <Xns9848C12582CEAtegger@207.14.116.130>,
"TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote:

> > That's true. Auto transmissions, anyone?
>
>
>
> Well, only '96 to '00, really. And only certain engines and VINs. And
> Honda is pretty lenient with warranty replacements, so...

They are lenient, but it's the 98 through 04 auto trans hooked to V6
engines that were miserable.

And that's not only one transmission, but two different
transmissions--the first was the 4 speed unit where they extended the
warranty, and the second was the 5 speed unit that cost them $360
million to fix.

Those transmissions are the legacy of the days when Honda let the
beancounters take over from the engineers.

Re: Honda drive train life expectancy
 

In article <Xns9848C12582CEAtegger@207.14.116.130>,
"TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote:

> > That's true. Auto transmissions, anyone?
>
>
>
> Well, only '96 to '00, really. And only certain engines and VINs. And
> Honda is pretty lenient with warranty replacements, so...

They are lenient, but it's the 98 through 04 auto trans hooked to V6
engines that were miserable.

And that's not only one transmission, but two different
transmissions--the first was the 4 speed unit where they extended the
warranty, and the second was the 5 speed unit that cost them $360
million to fix.

Those transmissions are the legacy of the days when Honda let the
beancounters take over from the engineers.

Re: Honda drive train life expectancy
 

Ike wrote:
>
> TeGGeR® wrote:
> > Ike <binarydotike@gmail.com> wrote in news:UvCRg.6737$%i.2457
> > @tornado.socal.rr.com:
> >
> >> My daughter's new FIT Sport (auto trans) is the family's first Honda. It
> >> drives and feels like a small Mercedes, and we agree with the favorable
> >> articles regarding build quality and features. However, we've heard
> >> unlikely stories about engine-trans longevity, and wonder if there's any
> >> repository of such information.
> >>
> >> How long should such a drive train last assuming proper maintenance, etc?
> >>
> >
> >
> > Half a million miles, easy. Given the right kind of driving that is.
> >
> > For most people, you can expect about 300K max.
> >
>
> I'm from an era when a valve job was necessary after 40k, and at 80k or
> so the engine was shot. My 1949 Chevy followed that profile, but of
> course gas was 24c/gallon and Earl Scheib would Paint Any Car for $29.95!


Well, the Chevy was splash lubricated (rod bearings) and of course,
lubricants back then were not close to what they are today.

My favorite old cars are Studebakers and the Stude V8's were virtually
indestructible. Still, a lot of these cars ended "parked" in the back
40 well before 100K. Most suffered a premature end of life because of
something simple like broken points, bad wires, or cracked distributor
cap, etc. I have purchased a number of 'em for parts and with a little
coaxing, most start right up with the proper attention.

Those same engines with today's lubricants would go well past 200K. A
Honda properly cared for would do even better due to better seals and
other improvements in technology over the years. Yet, a goodly number
of Hondas also don't make it much past 100K and usually for simple
things like a blown head gasket due to an aged hose failure etc.

Service life in my opinion is strictly up to the user...

JT

Re: Honda drive train life expectancy
 

Ike wrote:
>
> TeGGeR® wrote:
> > Ike <binarydotike@gmail.com> wrote in news:UvCRg.6737$%i.2457
> > @tornado.socal.rr.com:
> >
> >> My daughter's new FIT Sport (auto trans) is the family's first Honda. It
> >> drives and feels like a small Mercedes, and we agree with the favorable
> >> articles regarding build quality and features. However, we've heard
> >> unlikely stories about engine-trans longevity, and wonder if there's any
> >> repository of such information.
> >>
> >> How long should such a drive train last assuming proper maintenance, etc?
> >>
> >
> >
> > Half a million miles, easy. Given the right kind of driving that is.
> >
> > For most people, you can expect about 300K max.
> >
>
> I'm from an era when a valve job was necessary after 40k, and at 80k or
> so the engine was shot. My 1949 Chevy followed that profile, but of
> course gas was 24c/gallon and Earl Scheib would Paint Any Car for $29.95!


Well, the Chevy was splash lubricated (rod bearings) and of course,
lubricants back then were not close to what they are today.

My favorite old cars are Studebakers and the Stude V8's were virtually
indestructible. Still, a lot of these cars ended "parked" in the back
40 well before 100K. Most suffered a premature end of life because of
something simple like broken points, bad wires, or cracked distributor
cap, etc. I have purchased a number of 'em for parts and with a little
coaxing, most start right up with the proper attention.

Those same engines with today's lubricants would go well past 200K. A
Honda properly cared for would do even better due to better seals and
other improvements in technology over the years. Yet, a goodly number
of Hondas also don't make it much past 100K and usually for simple
things like a blown head gasket due to an aged hose failure etc.

Service life in my opinion is strictly up to the user...

JT