Honda "sweet spot" ?
 

Hello all,

Looking to buy a (new) Accord in the next few weeks. Wondering where the
"bang for the buck" curve peaks out on the Accord models? Don't want the
lowest base model, but probably not the ultimate highest one, either.
Where's the good middle ground, maybe leaning a little towards the high
end?

Second question: What's the thinking on the Civic Hybrid? Decent, or to
be avoided?

Thanks.


--
"Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".

Re: Honda "sweet spot" ?
 

Dan C wrote:

> Second question: What's the thinking on the Civic Hybrid? Decent, or to
> be avoided?

I'd avoid it. My '04 Civic (automatic, non-hybrid) routinely gets in excess
of 40mpg on the highway. The hybrid's gas mileage is probably only slightly
better, but it costs much more to purchase.

Re: Honda "sweet spot" ?
 

Dan C wrote:

> Second question: What's the thinking on the Civic Hybrid? Decent, or to
> be avoided?

I'd avoid it. My '04 Civic (automatic, non-hybrid) routinely gets in excess
of 40mpg on the highway. The hybrid's gas mileage is probably only slightly
better, but it costs much more to purchase.

Re: Honda "sweet spot" ?
 

"Dan C" <youmustbejoking@lan.invalid> wrote in message
news:pan.2007.06.12.20.22.24.401422@lan.invalid...
> Hello all,
>
> Looking to buy a (new) Accord in the next few weeks. Wondering where the
> "bang for the buck" curve peaks out on the Accord models? Don't want the
> lowest base model, but probably not the ultimate highest one, either.
> Where's the good middle ground, maybe leaning a little towards the high
> end?
>
> Second question: What's the thinking on the Civic Hybrid? Decent, or to
> be avoided?
>
> Thanks.
>

I've got an 07 EX-L sedan-- all options except the Nav system. Pretty damn
nice car for the money-- comfortable, powerful, lots of bells and whistles,
nice handling, Didn't see enough "upside" to blow an extra $8-10K for the
Acura.

Gripes? Just so-so gas mileage....and no ipod connector ;-)

Re: Honda "sweet spot" ?
 

"Dan C" <youmustbejoking@lan.invalid> wrote in message
news:pan.2007.06.12.20.22.24.401422@lan.invalid...
> Hello all,
>
> Looking to buy a (new) Accord in the next few weeks. Wondering where the
> "bang for the buck" curve peaks out on the Accord models? Don't want the
> lowest base model, but probably not the ultimate highest one, either.
> Where's the good middle ground, maybe leaning a little towards the high
> end?
>
> Second question: What's the thinking on the Civic Hybrid? Decent, or to
> be avoided?
>
> Thanks.
>

I've got an 07 EX-L sedan-- all options except the Nav system. Pretty damn
nice car for the money-- comfortable, powerful, lots of bells and whistles,
nice handling, Didn't see enough "upside" to blow an extra $8-10K for the
Acura.

Gripes? Just so-so gas mileage....and no ipod connector ;-)

Re: Honda "sweet spot" ?
 

On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 17:58:35 -0400, Felony Bob wrote:

> "Dan C" <youmustbejoking@lan.invalid> wrote in message
> news:pan.2007.06.12.20.22.24.401422@lan.invalid...
>> Hello all,
>>
>> Looking to buy a (new) Accord in the next few weeks. Wondering where the
>> "bang for the buck" curve peaks out on the Accord models? Don't want the
>> lowest base model, but probably not the ultimate highest one, either.
>> Where's the good middle ground, maybe leaning a little towards the high
>> end?
>>
>> Second question: What's the thinking on the Civic Hybrid? Decent, or to
>> be avoided?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>
> I've got an 07 EX-L sedan-- all options except the Nav system. Pretty damn
> nice car for the money-- comfortable, powerful, lots of bells and whistles,
> nice handling, Didn't see enough "upside" to blow an extra $8-10K for the
> Acura.
>
> Gripes? Just so-so gas mileage....and no ipod connector ;-)

Thanks for the input.

--
"Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".

Re: Honda "sweet spot" ?
 

On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 17:58:35 -0400, Felony Bob wrote:

> "Dan C" <youmustbejoking@lan.invalid> wrote in message
> news:pan.2007.06.12.20.22.24.401422@lan.invalid...
>> Hello all,
>>
>> Looking to buy a (new) Accord in the next few weeks. Wondering where the
>> "bang for the buck" curve peaks out on the Accord models? Don't want the
>> lowest base model, but probably not the ultimate highest one, either.
>> Where's the good middle ground, maybe leaning a little towards the high
>> end?
>>
>> Second question: What's the thinking on the Civic Hybrid? Decent, or to
>> be avoided?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>
> I've got an 07 EX-L sedan-- all options except the Nav system. Pretty damn
> nice car for the money-- comfortable, powerful, lots of bells and whistles,
> nice handling, Didn't see enough "upside" to blow an extra $8-10K for the
> Acura.
>
> Gripes? Just so-so gas mileage....and no ipod connector ;-)

Thanks for the input.

--
"Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".

Re: Honda "sweet spot" ?
 

On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 17:58:35 -0400, Felony Bob wrote:

> "Dan C" <youmustbejoking@lan.invalid> wrote in message
> news:pan.2007.06.12.20.22.24.401422@lan.invalid...
>> Hello all,
>>
>> Looking to buy a (new) Accord in the next few weeks. Wondering where the
>> "bang for the buck" curve peaks out on the Accord models? Don't want the
>> lowest base model, but probably not the ultimate highest one, either.
>> Where's the good middle ground, maybe leaning a little towards the high
>> end?
>>
>> Second question: What's the thinking on the Civic Hybrid? Decent, or to
>> be avoided?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>
> I've got an 07 EX-L sedan-- all options except the Nav system. Pretty damn
> nice car for the money-- comfortable, powerful, lots of bells and whistles,
> nice handling, Didn't see enough "upside" to blow an extra $8-10K for the
> Acura.
>
> Gripes? Just so-so gas mileage....and no ipod connector ;-)

Thanks for the input.

--
"Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".

Re: Honda "sweet spot" ?
 

On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 17:35:24 -0400, High Tech Misfit wrote:

> Dan C wrote:
>
>> Second question: What's the thinking on the Civic Hybrid? Decent, or to
>> be avoided?
>
> I'd avoid it. My '04 Civic (automatic, non-hybrid) routinely gets in excess
> of 40mpg on the highway. The hybrid's gas mileage is probably only slightly
> better, but it costs much more to purchase.

Sounds right, thanks.

--
"Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".

Re: Honda "sweet spot" ?
 

On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 17:35:24 -0400, High Tech Misfit wrote:

> Dan C wrote:
>
>> Second question: What's the thinking on the Civic Hybrid? Decent, or to
>> be avoided?
>
> I'd avoid it. My '04 Civic (automatic, non-hybrid) routinely gets in excess
> of 40mpg on the highway. The hybrid's gas mileage is probably only slightly
> better, but it costs much more to purchase.

Sounds right, thanks.

--
"Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".

Re: Honda "sweet spot" ?
 

On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 17:35:24 -0400, High Tech Misfit wrote:

> Dan C wrote:
>
>> Second question: What's the thinking on the Civic Hybrid? Decent, or to
>> be avoided?
>
> I'd avoid it. My '04 Civic (automatic, non-hybrid) routinely gets in excess
> of 40mpg on the highway. The hybrid's gas mileage is probably only slightly
> better, but it costs much more to purchase.

Sounds right, thanks.

--
"Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".

Re: Honda "sweet spot" ?
 

Dan C wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 17:35:24 -0400, High Tech Misfit wrote:
>
>
>>Dan C wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Second question: What's the thinking on the Civic Hybrid? Decent, or to
>>>be avoided?
>>
>>I'd avoid it. My '04 Civic (automatic, non-hybrid) routinely gets in excess
>>of 40mpg on the highway. The hybrid's gas mileage is probably only slightly
>>better, but it costs much more to purchase.
>
>
> Sounds right, thanks.
>


Hybrids are best suited for people who do lots of stop & go driving,
and have to idle in stopped traffic a lot. The Camry hybrid is also good
for people who want a full-sized sedan with econobox MPG.

Re: Honda "sweet spot" ?
 

Dan C wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 17:35:24 -0400, High Tech Misfit wrote:
>
>
>>Dan C wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Second question: What's the thinking on the Civic Hybrid? Decent, or to
>>>be avoided?
>>
>>I'd avoid it. My '04 Civic (automatic, non-hybrid) routinely gets in excess
>>of 40mpg on the highway. The hybrid's gas mileage is probably only slightly
>>better, but it costs much more to purchase.
>
>
> Sounds right, thanks.
>


Hybrids are best suited for people who do lots of stop & go driving,
and have to idle in stopped traffic a lot. The Camry hybrid is also good
for people who want a full-sized sedan with econobox MPG.

Re: Honda "sweet spot" ?
 

Dan C wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 17:35:24 -0400, High Tech Misfit wrote:
>
>
>>Dan C wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Second question: What's the thinking on the Civic Hybrid? Decent, or to
>>>be avoided?
>>
>>I'd avoid it. My '04 Civic (automatic, non-hybrid) routinely gets in excess
>>of 40mpg on the highway. The hybrid's gas mileage is probably only slightly
>>better, but it costs much more to purchase.
>
>
> Sounds right, thanks.
>


Hybrids are best suited for people who do lots of stop & go driving,
and have to idle in stopped traffic a lot. The Camry hybrid is also good
for people who want a full-sized sedan with econobox MPG.

Re: Honda "sweet spot" ?
 

"mjc13<REMOVETHIS> @verizon.net>" <"mjc13<REMOVETHIS> wrote in message
news:hqKbi.10690$Nz5.5250@trndny09...
>
>
> Hybrids are best suited for people who do lots of stop & go driving,
> and have to idle in stopped traffic a lot. The Camry hybrid is also good
> for people who want a full-sized sedan with econobox MPG.
>

Hybrids shine where little engine power is used and - theoretically - even
in highway travel by virtue of being able to resize the engine without
affecting responsiveness. A central characteristic of hybridization is the
separation of engine power from performance. A serial hybrid (none in
production yet) is an EV with on-board generation to keep it charged. The
engine power has no effect on performance at all, so the engine can be sized
for better efficiency. That's the promise. Today we have only the promise,
and not much of the goods.

Throttling an internal combustion engine, especially a gas engine, does
truly awful things to engine efficiency. (Throttling a gas engine has the
effect of reducing the charge and of reducing the compression ratio
simultaneously.) In town you would be doing very well to get 10% efficiency
(comparing EV energy consumption to energy value of gasoline used by an
equivalent unconverted vehicle); at least 9 out of every 10 gallons you burn
go to waste. Hybrids *should* gain most by using power generated at higher
engine efficiency to power the car when moving at low speeds.

Unfortunately, the first generation hybrids barely show any advantage in
that respect. Toyota's system can double the typical efficiency under
favorable conditions, raising fuel efficiency from awful to poor. The Civic
hybrid is especially challenged, although it gains a little from downsizing
the engine and using electric power to make up the difference. It just isn't
enough to pay its way. As the controller power capabilities increase and the
battery/motor can be scaled up we should see the real magic, in the manner
of the Dualnote. For now, I understand the disappointment.

Mike