Honda, Toyota, or Lexus?
 

I currently own a 2000 Toyota Avalon XLS and am looking for new wheels
(and the rest of the car to go with it). I have been happy with Ava
and looked at the new Toyota Avalon, Camry, and the Honda Accord. I
haven't looked at the Lexus ES350 yet because the dealership is about
a 2 hour drive from here. The reviews look good.

My initial conclusion is they all look good. The Toyota / Lexus are
somewhat quieter and smoother, the Honda probably more reliable.

I hear that Toyota quality and reliability is slipping and the 6 speed
transmission used in all the cars that I am considering has problems.
How serious are they? The Lexus seems nice but I am being told that
it must be taken to the Lexus dealer for warranty repairs, a 4 hour
drive round trip. Is this true, or can the local Toyota dealer handle
it?

I considered the Acura TL, but it does not come with cloth seats. The
Honda dealer was pushing the Nissan Altima. I don't think they are as
reliable as the Toyota. I recently rented Nissan Sentra for 2 months
in Hawaii. In 2 months due to failures we drove 3 different ones and
were not impressed. Any other suggestions for a nicer car that comes
with cloth seats?

Re: Honda, Toyota, or Lexus?
 

On Sat, 29 Mar 2008 17:27:03 -0700, ray wrote:

> I currently own a 2000 Toyota Avalon XLS and am looking for new wheels
> (and the rest of the car to go with it). I have been happy with Ava
> and looked at the new Toyota Avalon, Camry, and the Honda Accord. I
> haven't looked at the Lexus ES350 yet because the dealership is about
> a 2 hour drive from here. The reviews look good.

Forget all that crap and just get a BMW 5-series.


--
"Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".

Re: Honda, Toyota, or Lexus?
 

Waiving the right to remain silent, Dan C <youmustbejoking@lan.invalid> said:

> On Sat, 29 Mar 2008 17:27:03 -0700, ray wrote:
>
>> I currently own a 2000 Toyota Avalon XLS and am looking for new wheels
>> (and the rest of the car to go with it). I have been happy with Ava
>> and looked at the new Toyota Avalon, Camry, and the Honda Accord. I
>> haven't looked at the Lexus ES350 yet because the dealership is about
>> a 2 hour drive from here. The reviews look good.
>
> Forget all that crap and just get a BMW 5-series.

Feh... I've had three of them. The 95 and 98 540, I liked. The 01 530 was
a piece of crap. Constant problems with the computer and electrical system.
Glad it was a lease and I could get rid of it after 36 months.

With the possible exception of cornering, the Acura TL is a much better car
and about $15,000 less.

--
Larry J. - Remove spamtrap in ALLCAPS to e-mail

"A lack of common sense is now considered a disability,
with all the privileges that this entails."

Re: Honda, Toyota, or Lexus?
 

"ray" <spammers@do.not.reply.com> wrote in message
news:chntu3hfdurfdf3vmgsff9d376ue15ji7r@4ax.com...
>I currently own a 2000 Toyota Avalon XLS and am looking for new wheels
> (and the rest of the car to go with it). I have been happy with Ava
> and looked at the new Toyota Avalon, Camry, and the Honda Accord. I
> haven't looked at the Lexus ES350 yet because the dealership is about
> a 2 hour drive from here. The reviews look good.
>
> My initial conclusion is they all look good. The Toyota / Lexus are
> somewhat quieter and smoother, the Honda probably more reliable.
>
> I hear that Toyota quality and reliability is slipping and the 6 speed
> transmission used in all the cars that I am considering has problems.
> How serious are they? The Lexus seems nice but I am being told that
> it must be taken to the Lexus dealer for warranty repairs, a 4 hour
> drive round trip. Is this true, or can the local Toyota dealer handle
> it?
>
> I considered the Acura TL, but it does not come with cloth seats. The
> Honda dealer was pushing the Nissan Altima. I don't think they are as
> reliable as the Toyota. I recently rented Nissan Sentra for 2 months
> in Hawaii. In 2 months due to failures we drove 3 different ones and
> were not impressed. Any other suggestions for a nicer car that comes
> with cloth seats?


Funny, I went through the exact same drill last year when replacing my '00
Avalon...

I didn't like the new Avalon (so much plastic and shiny stuff on them looked
like they were designed by a 20-something engineer on drugs), same reaction
to the Solara convertible, just couldn't get comfortable in the Camry seats,
liked the Acura TL but damned if I'll put premium gas in one of those beasts
and the price was higher than I wanted to spend on my ride--- so I ended up
getting an Accord V6 EX-L--- by default really. Kinda settled for it when I
bought it.

But after driving it for several months, I've really come to like and
appreciate this car. It handles great ("corners like it's on rails"), has
plenty of power, is fun to drive, the shape of the seats exactly match the
shape of my ass, didn't care about the sunroof and XM radio-- but have come
to really enjoy them, has had zero assembly defects--- and I just got back
from a 650 mile trip and got 33.4 MPG!!

Re: Honda, Toyota, or Lexus?
 

In article <pan.2008.03.30.02.21.36.887221@moria.lan>,
Dan C <youmustbejoking@lan.invalid> wrote:

> On Sat, 29 Mar 2008 17:27:03 -0700, ray wrote:
>
> > I currently own a 2000 Toyota Avalon XLS and am looking for new wheels
> > (and the rest of the car to go with it). I have been happy with Ava
> > and looked at the new Toyota Avalon, Camry, and the Honda Accord. I
> > haven't looked at the Lexus ES350 yet because the dealership is about
> > a 2 hour drive from here. The reviews look good.
>
> Forget all that crap and just get a BMW 5-series.

A German car?

Better he should just buy a GM car and keep the money somewhat in this
country. He gets the same build quality, anyway.

Re: Honda, Toyota, or Lexus?
 

On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 08:52:18 -0400, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:

>> > I currently own a 2000 Toyota Avalon XLS and am looking for new wheels
>> > (and the rest of the car to go with it). I have been happy with Ava
>> > and looked at the new Toyota Avalon, Camry, and the Honda Accord. I
>> > haven't looked at the Lexus ES350 yet because the dealership is about
>> > a 2 hour drive from here. The reviews look good.

>> Forget all that crap and just get a BMW 5-series.

> A German car?

Yeah. They're the best at making cars. Simple as that.

> Better he should just buy a GM car and keep the money somewhat in this
> country. He gets the same build quality, anyway.

Oh, but buying a Toyota or Honda is just fine, eh? Did you not know that
those are Japanese-owned car companies? You think the money stays here in
this country when you buy a Toyota or a Honda?

The build quality is NOT the same either, by the way.


--
"Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".

Re: Honda, Toyota, or Lexus?
 

In article <pan.2008.03.31.02.33.55.538268@moria.lan>,
Dan C <youmustbejoking@lan.invalid> wrote:

> >> Forget all that crap and just get a BMW 5-series.
>
> > A German car?
>
> Yeah. They're the best at making cars. Simple as that.

Hardly.

Re: Honda, Toyota, or Lexus?
 

"Dan C" <youmustbejoking@lan.invalid> wrote in message
news:pan.2008.03.31.02.33.55.538268@moria.lan...
> On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 08:52:18 -0400, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
>
>>> > I currently own a 2000 Toyota Avalon XLS and am looking for new wheels
>>> > (and the rest of the car to go with it). I have been happy with Ava
>>> > and looked at the new Toyota Avalon, Camry, and the Honda Accord. I
>>> > haven't looked at the Lexus ES350 yet because the dealership is about
>>> > a 2 hour drive from here. The reviews look good.
>
>>> Forget all that crap and just get a BMW 5-series.
>
>> A German car?
>
> Yeah. They're the best at making cars. Simple as that.
>
>> Better he should just buy a GM car and keep the money somewhat in this
>> country. He gets the same build quality, anyway.
>
> Oh, but buying a Toyota or Honda is just fine, eh? Did you not know that
> those are Japanese-owned car companies? You think the money stays here in
> this country when you buy a Toyota or a Honda?
>
> The build quality is NOT the same either, by the way.
>
>
> --
> "Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".


IMO, the 2008 Avalon comes out better than the Honda. Big surprise is that
it's gas mileage is up in the 26-28 mpg range.
MLD

>

Re: Honda, Toyota, or Lexus?
 

MLD wrote:

> IMO, the 2008 Avalon comes out better than the Honda. Big surprise is
> that it's gas mileage is up in the 26-28 mpg range.
> MLD

HIghway? City? With a 6 or a 4?

Re: Honda, Toyota, or Lexus?
 

"Say What?" <NotMe@NotYou.com> wrote in message
news:0ScIj.5897$qT6.4147@nlpi070.nbdc.sbc.com...
> MLD wrote:
>
>> IMO, the 2008 Avalon comes out better than the Honda. Big surprise is
>> that it's gas mileage is up in the 26-28 mpg range.
>> MLD
>
> HIghway? City? With a 6 or a 4?
>
>

V6 and around the city. On a 3000 mi trip averaged 27/28 and at times did
between 30/31. On the trip just about all highway and anywhere between
75-80 mph

Re: Honda, Toyota, or Lexus?
 

On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 21:33:55 -0500, Dan C
<youmustbejoking@lan.invalid> wrote:

>On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 08:52:18 -0400, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
>
>>> > I currently own a 2000 Toyota Avalon XLS and am looking for new wheels
>>> > (and the rest of the car to go with it). I have been happy with Ava
>>> > and looked at the new Toyota Avalon, Camry, and the Honda Accord. I
>>> > haven't looked at the Lexus ES350 yet because the dealership is about
>>> > a 2 hour drive from here. The reviews look good.
>
>>> Forget all that crap and just get a BMW 5-series.
>
>> A German car?
>
>Yeah. They're the best at making cars. Simple as that.

Mercedes used to be one of the most reliable cars on the road (we're
talking 30 years ago now.) Now it is one of the least reliable.
VW/Audi are just about as bad. Compared to them the BMW is stellar,
but really not in the same league as Honda or Toyota.

BMWs are fun to drive, but you pay a lot for it when you buy it and as
you go down the road.

Re: Honda, Toyota, or Lexus?
 

On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 20:34:54 -0500, Gordon McGrew
<RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 21:33:55 -0500, Dan C
><youmustbejoking@lan.invalid> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 08:52:18 -0400, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
>>
>>>> > I currently own a 2000 Toyota Avalon XLS and am looking for new wheels
>>>> > (and the rest of the car to go with it). I have been happy with Ava
>>>> > and looked at the new Toyota Avalon, Camry, and the Honda Accord. I
>>>> > haven't looked at the Lexus ES350 yet because the dealership is about
>>>> > a 2 hour drive from here. The reviews look good.
>>
>>>> Forget all that crap and just get a BMW 5-series.
>>
>>> A German car?
>>
>>Yeah. They're the best at making cars. Simple as that.
>
>Mercedes used to be one of the most reliable cars on the road (we're
>talking 30 years ago now.) Now it is one of the least reliable.
>VW/Audi are just about as bad. Compared to them the BMW is stellar,
>but really not in the same league as Honda or Toyota.
>
>BMWs are fun to drive, but you pay a lot for it when you buy it and as
>you go down the road.

This is very true. I was looking at a used 2005 325i and being used to
Hondas/Hyundai's and how reliable they have been, I was shocked to see
some common issues that the 325's all had.

1) Transmissions failing at under 100k miles and BMW doing nothing
about it.(This was the dealbreaker)
2) Thermostats failing at 60k and then again at 80k
3) Balljoints failing at 80k
4) VANOS problems (BMW's Variable Timing)
5) Radiator expansion tank

And the list went on and on...If I wanted a car that had all of these
problems I would get a Ford. The Germans tried following the Japanese
way of doing things and they have failed miserably.

Re: Honda, Toyota, or Lexus?
 

Dan C wrote:
> On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 08:52:18 -0400, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
>
>>>> I currently own a 2000 Toyota Avalon XLS and am looking for new
>>>> wheels (and the rest of the car to go with it). I have been happy
>>>> with Ava and looked at the new Toyota Avalon, Camry, and the Honda
>>>> Accord. I haven't looked at the Lexus ES350 yet because the
>>>> dealership is about a 2 hour drive from here. The reviews look
>>>> good.
>
>>> Forget all that crap and just get a BMW 5-series.
>
>> A German car?
>
> Yeah. They're the best at making cars. Simple as that.
>
>> Better he should just buy a GM car and keep the money somewhat in
>> this country. He gets the same build quality, anyway.
>
> Oh, but buying a Toyota or Honda is just fine, eh? Did you not know
> that those are Japanese-owned car companies? You think the money
> stays here in this country when you buy a Toyota or a Honda?
>
> The build quality is NOT the same either, by the way.

BMW, Honda, Hyundai, Nissan and Toyota have factories in the US and employ
US citizens and pay US taxes.

Re: Honda, Toyota, or Lexus?
 

MLD wrote:
> "Say What?" <NotMe@NotYou.com> wrote in message
> news:0ScIj.5897$qT6.4147@nlpi070.nbdc.sbc.com...
>> MLD wrote:
>>
>>> IMO, the 2008 Avalon comes out better than the Honda. Big surprise
>>> is that it's gas mileage is up in the 26-28 mpg range.
>>> MLD
>>
>> HIghway? City? With a 6 or a 4?
>>
>>
>
> V6 and around the city. On a 3000 mi trip averaged 27/28 and at
> times did between 30/31. On the trip just about all highway and
> anywhere between 75-80 mph

This is what I usually get with my V6 Accord ('04).

Re: Honda, Toyota, or Lexus?
 

On Sat, 05 Apr 2008 11:13:41 +0000, L Alpert wrote:

>>> Better he should just buy a GM car and keep the money somewhat in
>>> this country. He gets the same build quality, anyway.

>> Oh, but buying a Toyota or Honda is just fine, eh? Did you not know
>> that those are Japanese-owned car companies? You think the money
>> stays here in this country when you buy a Toyota or a Honda?
>>
>> The build quality is NOT the same either, by the way.

> BMW, Honda, Hyundai, Nissan and Toyota have factories in the US and employ
> US citizens and pay US taxes.

Right. You're as clueless as the other dumbass.


--
"Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org

Re: Honda, Toyota, or Lexus?
 

"Dan C" <youmustbejoking@lan.invalid> wrote in message
news:pan.2008.04.05.14.14.35.582340@moria.lan...
> On Sat, 05 Apr 2008 11:13:41 +0000, L Alpert wrote:
>
> Right. You're as clueless as the other dumbass.
>


Why is he clueless?

--
Bearman

Occasionally proud but always happy to be an American.

Re: Honda, Toyota, or Lexus?
 

Dan C wrote:
> On Sat, 05 Apr 2008 11:13:41 +0000, L Alpert wrote:
>
>>>> Better he should just buy a GM car and keep the money somewhat in
>>>> this country. He gets the same build quality, anyway.
>
>>> Oh, but buying a Toyota or Honda is just fine, eh? Did you not know
>>> that those are Japanese-owned car companies? You think the money
>>> stays here in this country when you buy a Toyota or a Honda?
>>>
>>> The build quality is NOT the same either, by the way.
>
>> BMW, Honda, Hyundai, Nissan and Toyota have factories in the US and
>> employ US citizens and pay US taxes.
>
> Right. You're as clueless as the other dumbass.

Are you saying that these companies do not manufacture within US borders and
they do not employ American citizens?

Re: Honda, Toyota, or Lexus?
 

bearman wrote:
> "Dan C" <youmustbejoking@lan.invalid> wrote in message
> news:pan.2008.04.05.14.14.35.582340@moria.lan...
>> On Sat, 05 Apr 2008 11:13:41 +0000, L Alpert wrote:
>>
>> Right. You're as clueless as the other dumbass.
>>
>
>
> Why is he clueless?

Probably because I'm right.

Re: Honda, Toyota, or Lexus?
 

"L Alpert" <alpertl@xxgmail.com> wrote in message
news:F9JJj.273$h75.13@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net.. .
> Dan C wrote:
>> On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 08:52:18 -0400, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
>>
>>>>> I currently own a 2000 Toyota Avalon XLS and am looking for new
>>>>> wheels (and the rest of the car to go with it). I have been happy
>>>>> with Ava and looked at the new Toyota Avalon, Camry, and the Honda
>>>>> Accord. I haven't looked at the Lexus ES350 yet because the
>>>>> dealership is about a 2 hour drive from here. The reviews look
>>>>> good.
>>
>>>> Forget all that crap and just get a BMW 5-series.
>>
>>> A German car?
>>
>> Yeah. They're the best at making cars. Simple as that.
>>
>>> Better he should just buy a GM car and keep the money somewhat in
>>> this country. He gets the same build quality, anyway.
>>
>> Oh, but buying a Toyota or Honda is just fine, eh? Did you not know
>> that those are Japanese-owned car companies? You think the money
>> stays here in this country when you buy a Toyota or a Honda?
>>
>> The build quality is NOT the same either, by the way.
>
> BMW, Honda, Hyundai, Nissan and Toyota have factories in the US and employ
> US citizens and pay US taxes.

Believe the 3 series is assembled in Pretoria, South Africa and shipped to
the States. The engines and transmissions are made in Germany.
>
>

Re: Honda, Toyota, or Lexus?
 

On Sat, 05 Apr 2008 19:23:55 -0400, L Alpert wrote:

>>> BMW, Honda, Hyundai, Nissan and Toyota have factories in the US and
>>> employ US citizens and pay US taxes.

>> Right. You're as clueless as the other dumbass.

> Are you saying that these companies do not manufacture within US borders and
> they do not employ American citizens?

No.

What I was referring to was the blanket-statement that "the money stays
here in the US" when buying one of these cars. Perhaps *some* of it does,
but not all. In fact that was never the point of the original discussion
at all.

<shrug>


--
"Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org

Re: Honda, Toyota, or Lexus?
 

On Sat, 05 Apr 2008 10:42:14 -0600, bearman wrote:

>> Right. You're as clueless as the other dumbass.

> Why is he clueless?

Because he seems to think these Japanese cars are entirely made here in
the US, and all the money from their sales stays here in the US. Neither
of those statements is true.


--
"Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org

Re: Honda, Toyota, or Lexus?
 

Dan C wrote:
>
> Because he seems to think these Japanese cars are entirely made here in
> the US, and all the money from their sales stays here in the US. Neither
> of those statements is true.
>

But that's not what he said at all. You may have inferred it but he
didn't say (write) it...

He wrote "BMW, Honda, Hyundai, Nissan and Toyota have factories in the
US and employ US citizens and pay US taxes.", which is all true. Nowhere
does it say "Japanese cars are entirely made here in the US, and all the
money from their sales stays here in the US".

FWIW, I think Mercedes also has a factory in the U.S.

Re: Honda, Toyota, or Lexus?
 

On 4/5/2008 8:44 PM M.M. spake these words of knowledge:

> Dan C wrote:
>>
>> Because he seems to think these Japanese cars are entirely made here in
>> the US, and all the money from their sales stays here in the US. Neither
>> of those statements is true.
>>
>
> But that's not what he said at all. You may have inferred it but he
> didn't say (write) it...
>
> He wrote "BMW, Honda, Hyundai, Nissan and Toyota have factories in the
> US and employ US citizens and pay US taxes.", which is all true. Nowhere
> does it say "Japanese cars are entirely made here in the US, and all the
> money from their sales stays here in the US".
>
> FWIW, I think Mercedes also has a factory in the U.S.


In fact, Mercedes, Honda and Hyundai all have factories in Alabama.

RFT!!!
Dave Kelsen
--
"If you can get people to ask the wrong questions, they'll never find
the right answers." -- Thomas Pynchon

Re: Honda, Toyota, or Lexus?
 

On Sat, 05 Apr 2008 20:06:54 -0500, Dan C
<youmustbejoking@lan.invalid> wrote:

>On Sat, 05 Apr 2008 19:23:55 -0400, L Alpert wrote:
>
>>>> BMW, Honda, Hyundai, Nissan and Toyota have factories in the US and
>>>> employ US citizens and pay US taxes.
>
>>> Right. You're as clueless as the other dumbass.
>
>> Are you saying that these companies do not manufacture within US borders and
>> they do not employ American citizens?
>
>No.
>
>What I was referring to was the blanket-statement that "the money stays
>here in the US" when buying one of these cars. Perhaps *some* of it does,
>but not all. In fact that was never the point of the original discussion
>at all.
>
><shrug>

So do you think there is any foreigner anywhere who owns a share and
collects a dividend from GM or Ford? If so, not all of the money
stays here in the US.

If you want more of the money to stay in the US, buy HMC and TM.

<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/finance/chart/compare/*http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?t=my&s=HMC&l=on&z=m&q=l&c=gm>

<shrug>

Re: Honda, Toyota, or Lexus?
 

Dan C wrote:
> On Sat, 05 Apr 2008 19:23:55 -0400, L Alpert wrote:
>
>>>> BMW, Honda, Hyundai, Nissan and Toyota have factories in the US and
>>>> employ US citizens and pay US taxes.
>
>>> Right. You're as clueless as the other dumbass.
>
>> Are you saying that these companies do not manufacture within US
>> borders and they do not employ American citizens?
>
> No.
>
> What I was referring to was the blanket-statement that "the money
> stays here in the US" when buying one of these cars. Perhaps *some*
> of it does, but not all. In fact that was never the point of the
> original discussion at all.
>
> <shrug>


This statement made it part of the discussion:

"Oh, but buying a Toyota or Honda is just fine, eh? Did you not know
that those are Japanese-owned car companies? You think the money
stays here in this country when you buy a Toyota or a Honda?"

The fact remains that these companies employ American workers and pay
American taxes. While the actual net profit may go to foreign countries,
the this is less than the actual cost of manufacturing the vehicle, so
"some" of the money is inaccurate, as in reality, most of the money stays
here.

<double shrug>

Re: Honda, Toyota, or Lexus?
 

tww1491 wrote:
> "L Alpert" <alpertl@xxgmail.com> wrote in message
> news:F9JJj.273$h75.13@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net.. .
>> Dan C wrote:
>>> On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 08:52:18 -0400, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> I currently own a 2000 Toyota Avalon XLS and am looking for new
>>>>>> wheels (and the rest of the car to go with it). I have been
>>>>>> happy with Ava and looked at the new Toyota Avalon, Camry, and
>>>>>> the Honda Accord. I haven't looked at the Lexus ES350 yet
>>>>>> because the dealership is about a 2 hour drive from here. The
>>>>>> reviews look good.
>>>
>>>>> Forget all that crap and just get a BMW 5-series.
>>>
>>>> A German car?
>>>
>>> Yeah. They're the best at making cars. Simple as that.
>>>
>>>> Better he should just buy a GM car and keep the money somewhat in
>>>> this country. He gets the same build quality, anyway.
>>>
>>> Oh, but buying a Toyota or Honda is just fine, eh? Did you not know
>>> that those are Japanese-owned car companies? You think the money
>>> stays here in this country when you buy a Toyota or a Honda?
>>>
>>> The build quality is NOT the same either, by the way.
>>
>> BMW, Honda, Hyundai, Nissan and Toyota have factories in the US and
>> employ US citizens and pay US taxes.
>
> Believe the 3 series is assembled in Pretoria, South Africa and
> shipped to the States. The engines and transmissions are made in
> Germany.

I'm sure that specific models may be made in specific factories, as this
would be more cost effective for inventory and assembly.

Toyota and GM have a joint venture in Fremont, CA (NUMMI), where they
manufacture the Pontiac Vibe, Toyota Corolla and Tacoma (all use the same
frame). Pretty interesting to see all three of these go down the same
assembly line together......

Re: Honda, Toyota, or Lexus?
 

Dan C wrote:
> On Sat, 05 Apr 2008 10:42:14 -0600, bearman wrote:
>
>>> Right. You're as clueless as the other dumbass.
>
>> Why is he clueless?
>
> Because he seems to think these Japanese cars are entirely made here
> in the US, and all the money from their sales stays here in the US.
> Neither of those statements is true.

I never stated that all of the money stays here, that is an assumption on
your part.

Re: Honda, Toyota, or Lexus?
 

On Mar 29, 6:27 pm, ray <spamm...@do.not.reply.com> wrote:
> I currently own a 2000 Toyota Avalon XLS and am looking for new wheels
> (and the rest of the car to go with it). I have been happy with Ava
> and looked at the new Toyota Avalon, Camry, and the Honda Accord. I
> haven't looked at the Lexus ES350 yet because the dealership is about
> a 2 hour drive from here. The reviews look good.
>
> My initial conclusion is they all look good. The Toyota / Lexus are
> somewhat quieter and smoother, the Honda probably more reliable.
>
> I hear that Toyota quality and reliability is slipping and the 6 speed
> transmission used in all the cars that I am considering has problems.
> How serious are they? The Lexus seems nice but I am being told that
> it must be taken to the Lexus dealer for warranty repairs, a 4 hour
> drive round trip. Is this true, or can the local Toyota dealer handle
> it?
>
> I considered the Acura TL, but it does not come with cloth seats. The
> Honda dealer was pushing the Nissan Altima. I don't think they are as
> reliable as the Toyota. I recently rented Nissan Sentra for 2 months
> in Hawaii. In 2 months due to failures we drove 3 different ones and
> were not impressed. Any other suggestions for a nicer car that comes
> with cloth seats?

We have both an Avalon and an Accord in our family. I am surprised at
how much more I like the Accord. It has more room. The ride and
"driveability" are much better. And it is less expensive. If you
haven't yet, drive your Avalon to the Honda dealer and then test drive
an Accord. I think you will like Accord.

Good luck!

Re: Honda, Toyota, or Lexus?
 

ray wrote:
> I currently own a 2000 Toyota Avalon XLS and am looking for new wheels
> (and the rest of the car to go with it). I have been happy with Ava
> and looked at the new Toyota Avalon, Camry, and the Honda Accord. I
> haven't looked at the Lexus ES350 yet because the dealership is about
> a 2 hour drive from here. The reviews look good.
>


The only thing I really don't like about our Accord and TSX is that both
have high levels of road noise on certain road surfaces. The
Toyota/Lexus products are much better in this regard.

A recent road trip included several hours at the end of a long day on
some highways in West Texas which have very coarse pavement. The noise
was maddening.

So depending on your driving style this might be an issue.

It never bothers me on trips of under two hours, but when you get into a
6-12 hour marathon day on the road like I do several times a year then
road noise is very tiring.

John