|
Honda/Toyota vs American
There is another thread about new Lexus and Toyota models that has just run
too long. Accordingly, I wanted to spin off that conversation with a new thread. There was discussion about buying Lexus versus Lincoln. One of the things that I realized is that, more or less, Toyota/Honda vehicles are priced by the market, both new and used, as if the car will last 150,000 miles while American vehicles are generally priced as if the vehicles will last 100,000 miles. Meaning that at 50,000MI, a Honda/Toyota will still be worth about 2/3 of the original price while an American vehicle will be worth about half. This is merely a very rough rule of thumb, but something I've noticed. Even new, the US vehicles can't be sold unless Detroit rebates it's way to a sale, so the "out the door" price is much less than the "out the door" price of a Toy/Hon. Even though the sticker prices are similar. Again, this seems to reflect that the market assumes the Toy/Hon will go 150,000 miles before major trouble vs merely 100,000 for the US vehicle. My point is that buying similar sized-categorized vehicles from Toy/Hon vs US is no longer an apples to apples comparison. (I realize that many vehicles go 200,000 to 300,000 miles...maybe more....of both American and Japanese build. But my point is that THE MARKET prices Toy/Hon vehicles to last about 50% longer). |
Re: Honda/Toyota vs American
"D.D. Palmer" <ddpalmer@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:IsKdnbVQgqF-6fLfRVn-sw@comcast.com... > There is another thread about new Lexus and Toyota models that has just > run > too long. Accordingly, I wanted to spin off that conversation with a new > thread. Good idea! There was discussion about buying Lexus versus Lincoln. One of the > things that I realized is that, more or less, Toyota/Honda vehicles are > priced by the market, both new and used, as if the car will last 150,000 > miles while American vehicles are generally priced as if the vehicles will > last 100,000 miles. Meaning that at 50,000MI, a Honda/Toyota will still be > worth about 2/3 of the original price while an American vehicle will be > worth about half. This is merely a very rough rule of thumb, but something > I've noticed. Even new, the US vehicles can't be sold unless Detroit > rebates > it's way to a sale, so the "out the door" price is much less than the "out > the door" price of a Toy/Hon. Even though the sticker prices are similar. > Again, this seems to reflect that the market assumes the Toy/Hon will go > 150,000 miles before major trouble vs merely 100,000 for the US vehicle. > My > point is that buying similar sized-categorized vehicles from Toy/Hon vs US > is no longer an apples to apples comparison. (I realize that many vehicles > go 200,000 to 300,000 miles...maybe more....of both American and Japanese > build. But my point is that THE MARKET prices Toy/Hon vehicles to last > about > 50% longer). Too many people have been burned by Ford/Lincoln, I suspect. In fairness, the market lags changes in quality somewhat because people only know what they *had* as opposed to what they are getting. It takes a long time to build a good reputation and a short time to build a bad one. The last Dodge I had went bye-bye 15 years ago, and I have no intention of ever buying another. One son had a Taurus that I helped him with occasionally, and I say "no, thanks" to that also. Now he has a new Chevy Cobalt, and I'm watching it. I had a Nissan 300ZX that still makes me wake up in a cold sweat with all the electrical nightmares. Our Toyota and my daughter's Honda have been solid values and I'd buy either brand again, even at a significant premium. It's that simple. Mike |
Re: Honda/Toyota vs American
Unfortunately for Detroit, that's been the experience of many Americans.
Including my 70 year old "I'll never buy foreign" mother who is happily enjoying her now 3 year old, no-hassle Camry after enduring 4 years of endless recalls and repairs on a 1998 (or was it a '97?) Mercury Mistake (Mystique). "Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote in message news:V7SdnfHCJvEGGvLfRVn-2w@sedona.net... > "D.D. Palmer" <ddpalmer@hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:IsKdnbVQgqF-6fLfRVn-sw@comcast.com... >> There is another thread about new Lexus and Toyota models that has just >> run >> too long. Accordingly, I wanted to spin off that conversation with a new >> thread. > > Good idea! > > There was discussion about buying Lexus versus Lincoln. One of the >> things that I realized is that, more or less, Toyota/Honda vehicles are >> priced by the market, both new and used, as if the car will last 150,000 >> miles while American vehicles are generally priced as if the vehicles >> will >> last 100,000 miles. Meaning that at 50,000MI, a Honda/Toyota will still >> be >> worth about 2/3 of the original price while an American vehicle will be >> worth about half. This is merely a very rough rule of thumb, but >> something >> I've noticed. Even new, the US vehicles can't be sold unless Detroit >> rebates >> it's way to a sale, so the "out the door" price is much less than the >> "out >> the door" price of a Toy/Hon. Even though the sticker prices are similar. >> Again, this seems to reflect that the market assumes the Toy/Hon will go >> 150,000 miles before major trouble vs merely 100,000 for the US vehicle. >> My >> point is that buying similar sized-categorized vehicles from Toy/Hon vs >> US >> is no longer an apples to apples comparison. (I realize that many >> vehicles >> go 200,000 to 300,000 miles...maybe more....of both American and Japanese >> build. But my point is that THE MARKET prices Toy/Hon vehicles to last >> about >> 50% longer). > > Too many people have been burned by Ford/Lincoln, I suspect. > > In fairness, the market lags changes in quality somewhat because people > only know what they *had* as opposed to what they are getting. It takes a > long time to build a good reputation and a short time to build a bad one. > The last Dodge I had went bye-bye 15 years ago, and I have no intention of > ever buying another. One son had a Taurus that I helped him with > occasionally, and I say "no, thanks" to that also. Now he has a new Chevy > Cobalt, and I'm watching it. I had a Nissan 300ZX that still makes me wake > up in a cold sweat with all the electrical nightmares. Our Toyota and my > daughter's Honda have been solid values and I'd buy either brand again, > even at a significant premium. It's that simple. > > Mike > |
Re: Honda/Toyota vs American
"Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote in
news:V7SdnfHCJvEGGvLfRVn-2w@sedona.net: > Too many people have been burned by Ford/Lincoln, I suspect. My father-in-law and several other people I know will never buy another Ford. Too many suspension, ABS and automatic transmission failures. -- TeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ |
Re: Honda/Toyota vs American
In article <Z9adnde9GMcOFvLfRVn-1A@comcast.com>, "D.D. Palmer"
<ddpalmer@hotmail.com> wrote: > Unfortunately for Detroit, that's been the experience of many Americans. > Including my 70 year old "I'll never buy foreign" mother who is happily > enjoying her now 3 year old, no-hassle Camry after enduring 4 years of > endless recalls and repairs on a 1998 (or was it a '97?) Mercury Mistake > (Mystique). Mystique, I agree. My last American car was a Chevy Monza. It was so bad that GM eventually quit making them since they developed a bad reputation due to the fact that were always having various engine problems. That was my last American car. The American car companies like GM and Ford need to make some major changes if they want to continue operating. Jason -- NEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice. We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people. |
Re: Honda/Toyota vs American
"D.D. Palmer" <ddpalmer@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Unfortunately for Detroit, that's been the experience of many Americans. >Including my 70 year old "I'll never buy foreign" mother who is happily >enjoying her now 3 year old, no-hassle Camry after enduring 4 years of >endless recalls and repairs on a 1998 (or was it a '97?) Mercury Mistake >(Mystique). A Camry made in the US (Georgetown, Kentucky) or a Camry made in Japan? I'm not sure how to classify a foreign-label car made in the US - or, for that matter, a US-label car with significant parts from overseas (Ford Escape, with Toyota hybrid system). -- Jack Hamilton Sacramento, California -- <> Qui vit sans folie n'est pas si sage qu'il croit. <> François VI, duc de La Rochefoucauld |
Re: Honda/Toyota vs American
OK, granted the Camry was made in Kentucky. Which PROVES that Americans CAN
make a quality vehicle. But you fully understand what I mean by "foreign" or "Japanese". Bottom line is that the PROFITS go to Japan...and they have BIG profits, unlike Detroit. Hey, I don't mean to bash for the sake of bashing, but am just pointing out that the market is pricing more miles-per-car into Japan. "Jack Hamilton" <jfh@acm.org> wrote in message news:5nkv61pvji3n761fbenmp3j0gdulp2a919@4ax.com... > "D.D. Palmer" <ddpalmer@hotmail.com> wrote: > >>Unfortunately for Detroit, that's been the experience of many Americans. >>Including my 70 year old "I'll never buy foreign" mother who is happily >>enjoying her now 3 year old, no-hassle Camry after enduring 4 years of >>endless recalls and repairs on a 1998 (or was it a '97?) Mercury Mistake >>(Mystique). > > A Camry made in the US (Georgetown, Kentucky) or a Camry made in Japan? > > I'm not sure how to classify a foreign-label car made in the US - or, > for that matter, a US-label car with significant parts from overseas > (Ford Escape, with Toyota hybrid system). > > > > -- > Jack Hamilton > Sacramento, California > -- > <> Qui vit sans folie n'est pas si sage qu'il croit. > <> François VI, duc de La Rochefoucauld |
Re: Honda/Toyota vs American
"Jack Hamilton" <jfh@acm.org> wrote in message
news:5nkv61pvji3n761fbenmp3j0gdulp2a919@4ax.com... > "D.D. Palmer" <ddpalmer@hotmail.com> wrote: > >>Unfortunately for Detroit, that's been the experience of many Americans. >>Including my 70 year old "I'll never buy foreign" mother who is happily >>enjoying her now 3 year old, no-hassle Camry after enduring 4 years of >>endless recalls and repairs on a 1998 (or was it a '97?) Mercury Mistake >>(Mystique). > > A Camry made in the US (Georgetown, Kentucky) or a Camry made in Japan? > > I'm not sure how to classify a foreign-label car made in the US - or, > for that matter, a US-label car with significant parts from overseas > (Ford Escape, with Toyota hybrid system). > Most of the problems with the cars I have fought were design problems rather than construction quality issues. The Dodge I had even had a Mitsubishi power train, and it was the worst system in the car. But the Taurus had a 6 inch clutch(!!!!) on a large 4 cylinder engine and a raft of other screwy design problems. So I don't buy or recommend Mitsubishi, Nissan, Dodge or Ford. Still watching Chevy. Mike |
Re: Honda/Toyota vs American
In article <KqCdnQnQ7qhKfPLfRVn-hA@comcast.com>, "D.D. Palmer"
<ddpalmer@hotmail.com> wrote: > OK, granted the Camry was made in Kentucky. Which PROVES that Americans CAN > make a quality vehicle. But you fully understand what I mean by "foreign" or > "Japanese". Bottom line is that the PROFITS go to Japan...and they have BIG > profits, unlike Detroit. Hey, I don't mean to bash for the sake of bashing, > but am just pointing out that the market is pricing more miles-per-car into > Japan. > > "Jack Hamilton" <jfh@acm.org> wrote in message > news:5nkv61pvji3n761fbenmp3j0gdulp2a919@4ax.com... > > "D.D. Palmer" <ddpalmer@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > >>Unfortunately for Detroit, that's been the experience of many Americans. > >>Including my 70 year old "I'll never buy foreign" mother who is happily > >>enjoying her now 3 year old, no-hassle Camry after enduring 4 years of > >>endless recalls and repairs on a 1998 (or was it a '97?) Mercury Mistake > >>(Mystique). > > > > A Camry made in the US (Georgetown, Kentucky) or a Camry made in Japan? > > > > I'm not sure how to classify a foreign-label car made in the US - or, > > for that matter, a US-label car with significant parts from overseas > > (Ford Escape, with Toyota hybrid system). > > > > > > > > -- > > Jack Hamilton > > Sacramento, California Jack, I believe the American factories that produce cars like the Camry and Accord are officially called "Assembly Plants". This simply means that they assembly cars that were designed under the supervision of engineers in or from Japan. In fact, my Accord was made in Japan and it's just like the Accords that were "assembled" in American. -- NEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice. We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people. |
Re: Honda/Toyota vs American
Your kid bot a Cobalt? A first-year GM ANYTHING...let alone the
bottom-of-the-line Chevy? A bad, bad, bet. "Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote in message news:iqydnfvDVfAlte3fRVn-rA@sedona.net... > "Jack Hamilton" <jfh@acm.org> wrote in message > news:5nkv61pvji3n761fbenmp3j0gdulp2a919@4ax.com... >> "D.D. Palmer" <ddpalmer@hotmail.com> wrote: >> >>>Unfortunately for Detroit, that's been the experience of many Americans. >>>Including my 70 year old "I'll never buy foreign" mother who is happily >>>enjoying her now 3 year old, no-hassle Camry after enduring 4 years of >>>endless recalls and repairs on a 1998 (or was it a '97?) Mercury Mistake >>>(Mystique). >> >> A Camry made in the US (Georgetown, Kentucky) or a Camry made in Japan? >> >> I'm not sure how to classify a foreign-label car made in the US - or, >> for that matter, a US-label car with significant parts from overseas >> (Ford Escape, with Toyota hybrid system). >> > > Most of the problems with the cars I have fought were design problems > rather than construction quality issues. The Dodge I had even had a > Mitsubishi power train, and it was the worst system in the car. But the > Taurus had a 6 inch clutch(!!!!) on a large 4 cylinder engine and a raft > of other screwy design problems. So I don't buy or recommend Mitsubishi, > Nissan, Dodge or Ford. Still watching Chevy. > > Mike > |
Re: Honda/Toyota vs American
"D.D. Palmer" <ddpalmer@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:UqydnZ8-Vvj_s-3fRVn-sA@comcast.com... > Your kid bot a Cobalt? A first-year GM ANYTHING...let alone the > bottom-of-the-line Chevy? A bad, bad, bet. > He's a big boy - I wouldn't have gone that way, but hey.... Mike |
Re: Honda/Toyota vs American
"D.D. Palmer" <ddpalmer@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:KqCdnQnQ7qhKfPLfRVn-hA@comcast.com: > OK, granted the Camry was made in Kentucky. Which PROVES that > Americans CAN make a quality vehicle. But you fully understand what I > mean by "foreign" or "Japanese". Bottom line is that the PROFITS go to > Japan...and they have BIG profits, unlike Detroit. Hey, I don't mean > to bash for the sake of bashing, but am just pointing out that the > market is pricing more miles-per-car into Japan. The wages paid to AMERICAN workers making Toyotas/Hondas/Mazdas,BMWs and their parts get spent right here in the US,benefitting a lot of Americans. -- Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net |
Re: Honda/Toyota vs American
jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in
news:jason-2704051720050001@pm4-broad-38.snlo.dialup.fix.net: > In article <KqCdnQnQ7qhKfPLfRVn-hA@comcast.com>, "D.D. Palmer" ><ddpalmer@hotmail.com> wrote: > >> OK, granted the Camry was made in Kentucky. Which PROVES that >> Americans CAN make a quality vehicle. But you fully understand what I >> mean by "foreign" or "Japanese". Bottom line is that the PROFITS go >> to Japan...and they have BIG profits, unlike Detroit. Hey, I don't >> mean to bash for the sake of bashing, but am just pointing out that >> the market is pricing more miles-per-car into Japan. >> >> "Jack Hamilton" <jfh@acm.org> wrote in message >> news:5nkv61pvji3n761fbenmp3j0gdulp2a919@4ax.com... >> > "D.D. Palmer" <ddpalmer@hotmail.com> wrote: >> > >> >>Unfortunately for Detroit, that's been the experience of many >> >>Americans. Including my 70 year old "I'll never buy foreign" mother >> >>who is happily enjoying her now 3 year old, no-hassle Camry after >> >>enduring 4 years of endless recalls and repairs on a 1998 (or was >> >>it a '97?) Mercury Mistake (Mystique). >> > >> > A Camry made in the US (Georgetown, Kentucky) or a Camry made in >> > Japan? >> > >> > I'm not sure how to classify a foreign-label car made in the US - >> > or, for that matter, a US-label car with significant parts from >> > overseas (Ford Escape, with Toyota hybrid system). >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Jack Hamilton >> > Sacramento, California > > Jack, > I believe the American factories that produce cars like the Camry and > Accord are officially called "Assembly Plants". This simply means that > they assembly cars that were designed under the supervision of > engineers in or from Japan. In fact, my Accord was made in Japan and > it's just like the Accords that were "assembled" in American. > Honda makes most of their auto parts here in the US. They have an engine plant in Ohio. Some of the other foreign makes bring in assemblies to be assembled. Some of the -design- is also done in California by Americans. -- Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net |
Re: Honda/Toyota vs American
Honda made most of their vehicles in Canada. In California, we can find
Camry made in Japan. "Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov.> wrote in message news:Xns9646816389F21jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.85.. . > jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > news:jason-2704051720050001@pm4-broad-38.snlo.dialup.fix.net: > > > In article <KqCdnQnQ7qhKfPLfRVn-hA@comcast.com>, "D.D. Palmer" > ><ddpalmer@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > >> OK, granted the Camry was made in Kentucky. Which PROVES that > >> Americans CAN make a quality vehicle. But you fully understand what I > >> mean by "foreign" or "Japanese". Bottom line is that the PROFITS go > >> to Japan...and they have BIG profits, unlike Detroit. Hey, I don't > >> mean to bash for the sake of bashing, but am just pointing out that > >> the market is pricing more miles-per-car into Japan. > >> > >> "Jack Hamilton" <jfh@acm.org> wrote in message > >> news:5nkv61pvji3n761fbenmp3j0gdulp2a919@4ax.com... > >> > "D.D. Palmer" <ddpalmer@hotmail.com> wrote: > >> > > >> >>Unfortunately for Detroit, that's been the experience of many > >> >>Americans. Including my 70 year old "I'll never buy foreign" mother > >> >>who is happily enjoying her now 3 year old, no-hassle Camry after > >> >>enduring 4 years of endless recalls and repairs on a 1998 (or was > >> >>it a '97?) Mercury Mistake (Mystique). > >> > > >> > A Camry made in the US (Georgetown, Kentucky) or a Camry made in > >> > Japan? > >> > > >> > I'm not sure how to classify a foreign-label car made in the US - > >> > or, for that matter, a US-label car with significant parts from > >> > overseas (Ford Escape, with Toyota hybrid system). > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > -- > >> > Jack Hamilton > >> > Sacramento, California > > > > Jack, > > I believe the American factories that produce cars like the Camry and > > Accord are officially called "Assembly Plants". This simply means that > > they assembly cars that were designed under the supervision of > > engineers in or from Japan. In fact, my Accord was made in Japan and > > it's just like the Accords that were "assembled" in American. > > > > Honda makes most of their auto parts here in the US. > They have an engine plant in Ohio. > Some of the other foreign makes bring in assemblies to be assembled. > > Some of the -design- is also done in California by Americans. > > -- > Jim Yanik > jyanik > at > kua.net |
Re: Honda/Toyota vs American
In article <Xns964680F6EACAAjyanikkuanet@129.250.170.85>, Jim Yanik
<jyanik@abuse.gov.> wrote: > "D.D. Palmer" <ddpalmer@hotmail.com> wrote in > news:KqCdnQnQ7qhKfPLfRVn-hA@comcast.com: > > > OK, granted the Camry was made in Kentucky. Which PROVES that > > Americans CAN make a quality vehicle. But you fully understand what I > > mean by "foreign" or "Japanese". Bottom line is that the PROFITS go to > > Japan...and they have BIG profits, unlike Detroit. Hey, I don't mean > > to bash for the sake of bashing, but am just pointing out that the > > market is pricing more miles-per-car into Japan. > > The wages paid to AMERICAN workers making Toyotas/Hondas/Mazdas,BMWs and > their parts get spent right here in the US,benefitting a lot of Americans. JIm, Great point. I think that it's great that thousands of Americans are working in various assembly plants owned and operated by Japanese car companies and car product companies. I even think that it's great that Americans (regardless of their race) are working as design engineers for Japanese car companies. My only point was that Japanese car companies in Japan, Canada and the USA do a much better job making vehicles. -- NEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice. We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people. |
Re: Honda/Toyota vs American
Regardless, the market prices them to go 150,000 miles vs US vehicles to
100,000 miles. "Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov.> wrote in message news:Xns9646816389F21jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.85.. . > jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > news:jason-2704051720050001@pm4-broad-38.snlo.dialup.fix.net: > >> In article <KqCdnQnQ7qhKfPLfRVn-hA@comcast.com>, "D.D. Palmer" >><ddpalmer@hotmail.com> wrote: >> >>> OK, granted the Camry was made in Kentucky. Which PROVES that >>> Americans CAN make a quality vehicle. But you fully understand what I >>> mean by "foreign" or "Japanese". Bottom line is that the PROFITS go >>> to Japan...and they have BIG profits, unlike Detroit. Hey, I don't >>> mean to bash for the sake of bashing, but am just pointing out that >>> the market is pricing more miles-per-car into Japan. >>> >>> "Jack Hamilton" <jfh@acm.org> wrote in message >>> news:5nkv61pvji3n761fbenmp3j0gdulp2a919@4ax.com... >>> > "D.D. Palmer" <ddpalmer@hotmail.com> wrote: >>> > >>> >>Unfortunately for Detroit, that's been the experience of many >>> >>Americans. Including my 70 year old "I'll never buy foreign" mother >>> >>who is happily enjoying her now 3 year old, no-hassle Camry after >>> >>enduring 4 years of endless recalls and repairs on a 1998 (or was >>> >>it a '97?) Mercury Mistake (Mystique). >>> > >>> > A Camry made in the US (Georgetown, Kentucky) or a Camry made in >>> > Japan? >>> > >>> > I'm not sure how to classify a foreign-label car made in the US - >>> > or, for that matter, a US-label car with significant parts from >>> > overseas (Ford Escape, with Toyota hybrid system). >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > -- >>> > Jack Hamilton >>> > Sacramento, California >> >> Jack, >> I believe the American factories that produce cars like the Camry and >> Accord are officially called "Assembly Plants". This simply means that >> they assembly cars that were designed under the supervision of >> engineers in or from Japan. In fact, my Accord was made in Japan and >> it's just like the Accords that were "assembled" in American. >> > > Honda makes most of their auto parts here in the US. > They have an engine plant in Ohio. > Some of the other foreign makes bring in assemblies to be assembled. > > Some of the -design- is also done in California by Americans. > > -- > Jim Yanik > jyanik > at > kua.net |
Re: Honda/Toyota vs American
I have no problem with that. It has NOTHING to do with my point that the
market prices Hondas and Toyotas to last 50% longer than American vehicles. "Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov.> wrote in message news:Xns964680F6EACAAjyanikkuanet@129.250.170.85.. . > "D.D. Palmer" <ddpalmer@hotmail.com> wrote in > news:KqCdnQnQ7qhKfPLfRVn-hA@comcast.com: > >> OK, granted the Camry was made in Kentucky. Which PROVES that >> Americans CAN make a quality vehicle. But you fully understand what I >> mean by "foreign" or "Japanese". Bottom line is that the PROFITS go to >> Japan...and they have BIG profits, unlike Detroit. Hey, I don't mean >> to bash for the sake of bashing, but am just pointing out that the >> market is pricing more miles-per-car into Japan. > > The wages paid to AMERICAN workers making Toyotas/Hondas/Mazdas,BMWs and > their parts get spent right here in the US,benefitting a lot of Americans. > > -- > Jim Yanik > jyanik > at > kua.net |
Re: Honda/Toyota vs American
"D.D. Palmer" <ddpalmer@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:I6OdnWQ7jvBk0ezfRVn-sw@comcast.com: > I have no problem with that. It has NOTHING to do with my point that > the market prices Hondas and Toyotas to last 50% longer than American > vehicles. > > "Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov.> wrote in message > news:Xns964680F6EACAAjyanikkuanet@129.250.170.85.. . >> "D.D. Palmer" <ddpalmer@hotmail.com> wrote in >> news:KqCdnQnQ7qhKfPLfRVn-hA@comcast.com: >> >>> OK, granted the Camry was made in Kentucky. Which PROVES that >>> Americans CAN make a quality vehicle. But you fully understand what >>> I mean by "foreign" or "Japanese". Bottom line is that the PROFITS >>> go to Japan...and they have BIG profits, unlike Detroit. Hey, I >>> don't mean to bash for the sake of bashing, but am just pointing out >>> that the market is pricing more miles-per-car into Japan. >> >> The wages paid to AMERICAN workers making Toyotas/Hondas/Mazdas,BMWs >> and their parts get spent right here in the US,benefitting a lot of >> Americans. >> >> -- >> Jim Yanik >> jyanik >> at >> kua.net > > > Both you and Jason seem to have overlooked the fact I was responding to the comment about PROFITS going to Japan instead of to US companies. -- Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net |
Re: Honda/Toyota vs American
"D.D. Palmer" <ddpalmer@hotmail.com> wrote in news:HsGdnZLe6sZP0ezfRVn-
gw@comcast.com: > Regardless, the market prices them to go 150,000 miles vs US vehicles to > 100,000 miles. I have no idea why you are claiming this.What's the relevance? Rarely do things end up straight comparisons. Sometimes it's intentional. > > "Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov.> wrote in message > news:Xns9646816389F21jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.85.. . >> jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in >> news:jason-2704051720050001@pm4-broad-38.snlo.dialup.fix.net: >> >>> In article <KqCdnQnQ7qhKfPLfRVn-hA@comcast.com>, "D.D. Palmer" >>><ddpalmer@hotmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> OK, granted the Camry was made in Kentucky. Which PROVES that >>>> Americans CAN make a quality vehicle. But you fully understand what I >>>> mean by "foreign" or "Japanese". Bottom line is that the PROFITS go >>>> to Japan...and they have BIG profits, unlike Detroit. Hey, I don't >>>> mean to bash for the sake of bashing, but am just pointing out that >>>> the market is pricing more miles-per-car into Japan. >>>> >>>> "Jack Hamilton" <jfh@acm.org> wrote in message >>>> news:5nkv61pvji3n761fbenmp3j0gdulp2a919@4ax.com... >>>> > "D.D. Palmer" <ddpalmer@hotmail.com> wrote: >>>> > >>>> >>Unfortunately for Detroit, that's been the experience of many >>>> >>Americans. Including my 70 year old "I'll never buy foreign" mother >>>> >>who is happily enjoying her now 3 year old, no-hassle Camry after >>>> >>enduring 4 years of endless recalls and repairs on a 1998 (or was >>>> >>it a '97?) Mercury Mistake (Mystique). >>>> > >>>> > A Camry made in the US (Georgetown, Kentucky) or a Camry made in >>>> > Japan? >>>> > >>>> > I'm not sure how to classify a foreign-label car made in the US - >>>> > or, for that matter, a US-label car with significant parts from >>>> > overseas (Ford Escape, with Toyota hybrid system). >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > -- >>>> > Jack Hamilton >>>> > Sacramento, California >>> >>> Jack, >>> I believe the American factories that produce cars like the Camry and >>> Accord are officially called "Assembly Plants". This simply means that >>> they assembly cars that were designed under the supervision of >>> engineers in or from Japan. In fact, my Accord was made in Japan and >>> it's just like the Accords that were "assembled" in American. >>> >> >> Honda makes most of their auto parts here in the US. >> They have an engine plant in Ohio. >> Some of the other foreign makes bring in assemblies to be assembled. >> >> Some of the -design- is also done in California by Americans. >> >> -- >> Jim Yanik >> jyanik >> at >> kua.net > > > -- Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net |
Re: Honda/Toyota vs American
In article <Xns964761C904F5Fjyanikkuanet@129.250.170.83>, Jim Yanik
<jyanik@abuse.gov.> wrote: > "D.D. Palmer" <ddpalmer@hotmail.com> wrote in > news:I6OdnWQ7jvBk0ezfRVn-sw@comcast.com: > > > I have no problem with that. It has NOTHING to do with my point that > > the market prices Hondas and Toyotas to last 50% longer than American > > vehicles. > > > > "Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov.> wrote in message > > news:Xns964680F6EACAAjyanikkuanet@129.250.170.85.. . > >> "D.D. Palmer" <ddpalmer@hotmail.com> wrote in > >> news:KqCdnQnQ7qhKfPLfRVn-hA@comcast.com: > >> > >>> OK, granted the Camry was made in Kentucky. Which PROVES that > >>> Americans CAN make a quality vehicle. But you fully understand what > >>> I mean by "foreign" or "Japanese". Bottom line is that the PROFITS > >>> go to Japan...and they have BIG profits, unlike Detroit. Hey, I > >>> don't mean to bash for the sake of bashing, but am just pointing out > >>> that the market is pricing more miles-per-car into Japan. > >> > >> The wages paid to AMERICAN workers making Toyotas/Hondas/Mazdas,BMWs > >> and their parts get spent right here in the US,benefitting a lot of > >> Americans. > >> > >> -- > >> Jim Yanik > >> jyanik > >> at > >> kua.net > > > > > > > > Both you and Jason seem to have overlooked the fact I was responding to the > comment about PROFITS going to Japan instead of to US companies. Jim, I did not mean to ignore your comment that the profits are going to Japan instead of US companies. I agree with you--That's a bad thing. However, I just wanted to make the point that the owners of Ford and GM are the ones that are mostly responsible for this problem since they are making cars that are not as well made as cars made by Japanese owned car companies. I blame the owners of Ford and GM--not the people that have purchased cars made by Japanese car companies. Do you agree or disagree with me related to my point of view on this subject? Jason -- NEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice. We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people. |
Re: Honda/Toyota vs American
Just an observation. Most people think a Taurus or Buick Century are
comparable to Camrys or Accords, but in reality one is a 100,000 vehicle and one is a 150,000 vehicle and the market prices them that way. "Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov.> wrote in message news:Xns9647624CF8FE7jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.83.. . > "D.D. Palmer" <ddpalmer@hotmail.com> wrote in news:HsGdnZLe6sZP0ezfRVn- > gw@comcast.com: > >> Regardless, the market prices them to go 150,000 miles vs US vehicles to >> 100,000 miles. > > I have no idea why you are claiming this.What's the relevance? > > Rarely do things end up straight comparisons. > Sometimes it's intentional. > >> >> "Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov.> wrote in message >> news:Xns9646816389F21jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.85.. . >>> jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in >>> news:jason-2704051720050001@pm4-broad-38.snlo.dialup.fix.net: >>> >>>> In article <KqCdnQnQ7qhKfPLfRVn-hA@comcast.com>, "D.D. Palmer" >>>><ddpalmer@hotmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> OK, granted the Camry was made in Kentucky. Which PROVES that >>>>> Americans CAN make a quality vehicle. But you fully understand what I >>>>> mean by "foreign" or "Japanese". Bottom line is that the PROFITS go >>>>> to Japan...and they have BIG profits, unlike Detroit. Hey, I don't >>>>> mean to bash for the sake of bashing, but am just pointing out that >>>>> the market is pricing more miles-per-car into Japan. >>>>> >>>>> "Jack Hamilton" <jfh@acm.org> wrote in message >>>>> news:5nkv61pvji3n761fbenmp3j0gdulp2a919@4ax.com... >>>>> > "D.D. Palmer" <ddpalmer@hotmail.com> wrote: >>>>> > >>>>> >>Unfortunately for Detroit, that's been the experience of many >>>>> >>Americans. Including my 70 year old "I'll never buy foreign" mother >>>>> >>who is happily enjoying her now 3 year old, no-hassle Camry after >>>>> >>enduring 4 years of endless recalls and repairs on a 1998 (or was >>>>> >>it a '97?) Mercury Mistake (Mystique). >>>>> > >>>>> > A Camry made in the US (Georgetown, Kentucky) or a Camry made in >>>>> > Japan? >>>>> > >>>>> > I'm not sure how to classify a foreign-label car made in the US - >>>>> > or, for that matter, a US-label car with significant parts from >>>>> > overseas (Ford Escape, with Toyota hybrid system). >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > -- >>>>> > Jack Hamilton >>>>> > Sacramento, California >>>> >>>> Jack, >>>> I believe the American factories that produce cars like the Camry and >>>> Accord are officially called "Assembly Plants". This simply means that >>>> they assembly cars that were designed under the supervision of >>>> engineers in or from Japan. In fact, my Accord was made in Japan and >>>> it's just like the Accords that were "assembled" in American. >>>> >>> >>> Honda makes most of their auto parts here in the US. >>> They have an engine plant in Ohio. >>> Some of the other foreign makes bring in assemblies to be assembled. >>> >>> Some of the -design- is also done in California by Americans. >>> >>> -- >>> Jim Yanik >>> jyanik >>> at >>> kua.net >> >> >> > > > > -- > Jim Yanik > jyanik > at > kua.net |
Re: Honda/Toyota vs American
jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in
news:jason-2904050747270001@pm4-broad-55.snlo.dialup.fix.net: > In article <Xns964761C904F5Fjyanikkuanet@129.250.170.83>, Jim Yanik ><jyanik@abuse.gov.> wrote: > >> "D.D. Palmer" <ddpalmer@hotmail.com> wrote in >> news:I6OdnWQ7jvBk0ezfRVn-sw@comcast.com: >> >> > I have no problem with that. It has NOTHING to do with my point >> > that the market prices Hondas and Toyotas to last 50% longer than >> > American vehicles. >> > >> > "Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov.> wrote in message >> > news:Xns964680F6EACAAjyanikkuanet@129.250.170.85.. . >> >> "D.D. Palmer" <ddpalmer@hotmail.com> wrote in >> >> news:KqCdnQnQ7qhKfPLfRVn-hA@comcast.com: >> >> >> >>> OK, granted the Camry was made in Kentucky. Which PROVES that >> >>> Americans CAN make a quality vehicle. But you fully understand >> >>> what I mean by "foreign" or "Japanese". Bottom line is that the >> >>> PROFITS go to Japan...and they have BIG profits, unlike Detroit. >> >>> Hey, I don't mean to bash for the sake of bashing, but am just >> >>> pointing out that the market is pricing more miles-per-car into >> >>> Japan. >> >> >> >> The wages paid to AMERICAN workers making >> >> Toyotas/Hondas/Mazdas,BMWs and their parts get spent right here in >> >> the US,benefitting a lot of Americans. >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Jim Yanik >> >> jyanik >> >> at >> >> kua.net >> > >> > >> > >> >> Both you and Jason seem to have overlooked the fact I was responding >> to the comment about PROFITS going to Japan instead of to US >> companies. > > Jim, > I did not mean to ignore your comment that the profits are going to > Japan instead of US companies. I agree with you--That's a bad thing. Only because our own companies would not respond to competition;in fact,they lobbied for protection from competition. (and the same thing happened with the VCR;Japan developed it when US companies would not,and the profits went to Japan,deservedly.) > However, I just wanted to make the point that the owners of Ford and > GM And Chrysler > are the ones that are mostly responsible for this problem since > they are making cars that are not as well made as cars made by > Japanese owned car companies. This I agree with. > I blame the owners of Ford and GM--not > the people that have purchased cars made by Japanese car companies. Do > you agree or disagree with me related to my point of view on this > subject? Jason > -- Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net |
Re: Honda/Toyota vs American
"D.D. Palmer" <ddpalmer@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:26-dnWb0BvHJ8-_fRVn-gA@comcast.com: > Just an observation. Most people think a Taurus or Buick Century are > comparable to Camrys or Accords, but in reality one is a 100,000 > vehicle and one is a 150,000 vehicle and the market prices them that > way. I would say the market VALUES the cars that way,not "prices",that is what the manufacturers do;price their products.Then they must offer "incentives" and price games to actually move their product. The market(consumers) are the ones who decide what product is worth the asking price. Note that for some Japanese models,the American consumers were paying MORE than the list price due to demand and desirability of certain models.And still being put on waiting lists!! > > > "Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov.> wrote in message > news:Xns9647624CF8FE7jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.83.. . >> "D.D. Palmer" <ddpalmer@hotmail.com> wrote in >> news:HsGdnZLe6sZP0ezfRVn- gw@comcast.com: >> >>> Regardless, the market prices them to go 150,000 miles vs US >>> vehicles to 100,000 miles. >> >> I have no idea why you are claiming this.What's the relevance? >> >> Rarely do things end up straight comparisons. >> Sometimes it's intentional. >> -- >> Jim Yanik >> jyanik >> at >> kua.net > > > -- Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net |
Re: Honda/Toyota vs American
Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov.> wrote:
>jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in >news:jason-2904050747270001@pm4-broad-55.snlo.dialup.fix.net: > >> In article <Xns964761C904F5Fjyanikkuanet@129.250.170.83>, Jim Yanik >><jyanik@abuse.gov.> wrote: >> >>> "D.D. Palmer" <ddpalmer@hotmail.com> wrote in >>> news:I6OdnWQ7jvBk0ezfRVn-sw@comcast.com: >>> >>> > I have no problem with that. It has NOTHING to do with my point >>> > that the market prices Hondas and Toyotas to last 50% longer than >>> > American vehicles. >>> > >>> > "Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov.> wrote in message >>> > news:Xns964680F6EACAAjyanikkuanet@129.250.170.85.. . >>> >> "D.D. Palmer" <ddpalmer@hotmail.com> wrote in >>> >> news:KqCdnQnQ7qhKfPLfRVn-hA@comcast.com: >>> >> >>> >>> OK, granted the Camry was made in Kentucky. Which PROVES that >>> >>> Americans CAN make a quality vehicle. But you fully understand >>> >>> what I mean by "foreign" or "Japanese". Bottom line is that the >>> >>> PROFITS go to Japan...and they have BIG profits, unlike Detroit. >>> >>> Hey, I don't mean to bash for the sake of bashing, but am just >>> >>> pointing out that the market is pricing more miles-per-car into >>> >>> Japan. >>> >> >>> >> The wages paid to AMERICAN workers making >>> >> Toyotas/Hondas/Mazdas,BMWs and their parts get spent right here in >>> >> the US,benefitting a lot of Americans. >>> >> >>> >> -- >>> >> Jim Yanik >>> >> jyanik >>> >> at >>> >> kua.net >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> >>> Both you and Jason seem to have overlooked the fact I was responding >>> to the comment about PROFITS going to Japan instead of to US >>> companies. >> >> Jim, >> I did not mean to ignore your comment that the profits are going to >> Japan instead of US companies. I agree with you--That's a bad thing. > >Only because our own companies would not respond to competition;in >fact,they lobbied for protection from competition. > >(and the same thing happened with the VCR;Japan developed it when US >companies would not,and the profits went to Japan,deservedly.) > >> However, I just wanted to make the point that the owners of Ford and >> GM > >And Chrysler And Fiat - like Chrysler, an automaker based in Europe. -- Jack Hamilton Sacramento, California -- <> Qui vit sans folie n'est pas si sage qu'il croit. <> François VI, duc de La Rochefoucauld |
Re: Honda/Toyota vs American
On 4/29/2005 9:47 PM Jack Hamilton spake these words of knowledge:
> Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov.> wrote: > >>jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in >>news:jason-2904050747270001@pm4-broad-55.snlo.dialup.fix.net: >> >>> In article <Xns964761C904F5Fjyanikkuanet@129.250.170.83>, Jim Yanik >>><jyanik@abuse.gov.> wrote: >>> >>>> "D.D. Palmer" <ddpalmer@hotmail.com> wrote in >>>> news:I6OdnWQ7jvBk0ezfRVn-sw@comcast.com: >>>> >>>> > I have no problem with that. It has NOTHING to do with my point >>>> > that the market prices Hondas and Toyotas to last 50% longer than >>>> > American vehicles. >>>> > >>>> > "Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov.> wrote in message >>>> > news:Xns964680F6EACAAjyanikkuanet@129.250.170.85.. . >>>> >> "D.D. Palmer" <ddpalmer@hotmail.com> wrote in >>>> >> news:KqCdnQnQ7qhKfPLfRVn-hA@comcast.com: >>>> >> >>>> >>> OK, granted the Camry was made in Kentucky. Which PROVES that >>>> >>> Americans CAN make a quality vehicle. But you fully understand >>>> >>> what I mean by "foreign" or "Japanese". Bottom line is that the >>>> >>> PROFITS go to Japan...and they have BIG profits, unlike Detroit. >>>> >>> Hey, I don't mean to bash for the sake of bashing, but am just >>>> >>> pointing out that the market is pricing more miles-per-car into >>>> >>> Japan. >>>> >> >>>> >> The wages paid to AMERICAN workers making >>>> >> Toyotas/Hondas/Mazdas,BMWs and their parts get spent right here in >>>> >> the US,benefitting a lot of Americans. >>>> >> >>>> >> -- >>>> >> Jim Yanik >>>> >> jyanik >>>> >> at >>>> >> kua.net >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >>>> Both you and Jason seem to have overlooked the fact I was responding >>>> to the comment about PROFITS going to Japan instead of to US >>>> companies. >>> >>> Jim, >>> I did not mean to ignore your comment that the profits are going to >>> Japan instead of US companies. I agree with you--That's a bad thing. >> >>Only because our own companies would not respond to competition;in >>fact,they lobbied for protection from competition. >> >>(and the same thing happened with the VCR;Japan developed it when US >>companies would not,and the profits went to Japan,deservedly.) >> >>> However, I just wanted to make the point that the owners of Ford and >>> GM >> >>And Chrysler > > And Fiat - like Chrysler, an automaker based in Europe. Exactly. Except that unlike Fiat, Chrysler is not an automaker based in Europe. The parent corporation is based in Europe. But Chrysler is no more based in Europe than Mercedes is based in California. RFT!!! Dave Kelsen -- .... As I said before, I never repeat myself. |
Re: Honda/Toyota vs American
"D.D. Palmer" <ddpalmer@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:UqydnZ8-Vvj_s-3fRVn-sA@comcast.com... > Your kid bot a Cobalt? A first-year GM ANYTHING...let alone the > bottom-of-the-line Chevy? A bad, bad, bet. GM has seemingly done a good job with the Cobalt from both an interior and exterior appearance standpoint. Pricing is right too. However, there's nothing more frightening in the automotive industry than a first-year GM product. Regardless of whether it is a sedan, pickup truck or SUV. Cobalt does have loads of potential though. The doors shut with the sound of the late 80s Mercedes-Benz products. Solid as can be. Overall, you can tell that GM has tried really, really hard with the Cobalt. It *should* be a winner for them if it doesn't have too many introductory year bugs that scare people off for subsequent year purchases. I would even consider a Cobalt myself as a daily commuter car after it has been in production for three full years. It has plenty of room in it, should be good on fuel economy, looks decent enough if cosmetics are your thing, and can be well equipped if you're willing to spring for the LT package. I have my eye on this one as a fourth vehicle to be used mainly for commuting back and forth to work. It definitely won't be a replacement for my 2002 Lexus IS300. I will always have more confidence in the overall reliability of my Lexus, Honda and Nissan products than I would a second or third year domestic. Wouldn't matter to me if it were a GM, Ford OR Daimler-Chrysler product. Ron M. |
Re: Honda/Toyota vs American
"D.D. Palmer" <ddpalmer@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:UqydnZ8-Vvj_s-3fRVn-sA@comcast.com... > Your kid bot a Cobalt? A first-year GM ANYTHING...let alone the > bottom-of-the-line Chevy? A bad, bad, bet. GM has seemingly done a good job with the Cobalt from both an interior and exterior appearance standpoint. Pricing is right too. However, there's nothing more frightening in the automotive industry than a first-year GM product. Regardless of whether it is a sedan, pickup truck or SUV. Cobalt does have loads of potential though. The doors shut with the sound of the late 80s Mercedes-Benz products. Solid as can be. Overall, you can tell that GM has tried really, really hard with the Cobalt. It *should* be a winner for them if it doesn't have too many introductory year bugs that scare people off for subsequent year purchases. I would even consider a Cobalt myself as a daily commuter car after it has been in production for three full years. It has plenty of room in it, should be good on fuel economy, looks decent enough if cosmetics are your thing, and can be well equipped if you're willing to spring for the LT package. I have my eye on this one as a fourth vehicle to be used mainly for commuting back and forth to work. It definitely won't be a replacement for my 2002 Lexus IS300. I will always have more confidence in the overall reliability of my Lexus, Honda and Nissan products than I would a second or third year domestic. Wouldn't matter to me if it were a GM, Ford OR Daimler-Chrysler product. Ron M. |
Re: Honda/Toyota vs American
In article <117pike9n52ru07@corp.supernews.com>, "Ron M."
<nobody@nowhere.net> wrote: > "D.D. Palmer" <ddpalmer@hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:UqydnZ8-Vvj_s-3fRVn-sA@comcast.com... > > Your kid bot a Cobalt? A first-year GM ANYTHING...let alone the > > bottom-of-the-line Chevy? A bad, bad, bet. > > GM has seemingly done a good job with the Cobalt from both an interior and > exterior appearance standpoint. Pricing is right too. However, there's > nothing more frightening in the automotive industry than a first-year GM > product. Regardless of whether it is a sedan, pickup truck or SUV. Cobalt > does have loads of potential though. The doors shut with the sound of the > late 80s Mercedes-Benz products. Solid as can be. Overall, you can tell that > GM has tried really, really hard with the Cobalt. It *should* be a winner > for them if it doesn't have too many introductory year bugs that scare > people off for subsequent year purchases. I would even consider a Cobalt > myself as a daily commuter car after it has been in production for three > full years. It has plenty of room in it, should be good on fuel economy, > looks decent enough if cosmetics are your thing, and can be well equipped if > you're willing to spring for the LT package. I have my eye on this one as a > fourth vehicle to be used mainly for commuting back and forth to work. It > definitely won't be a replacement for my 2002 Lexus IS300. I will always > have more confidence in the overall reliability of my Lexus, Honda and > Nissan products than I would a second or third year domestic. Wouldn't > matter to me if it were a GM, Ford OR Daimler-Chrysler product. > > Ron M. Ron, After driving a Lexus for several years, you will learn to really hate driving the Cobalt. I own a 99 Accord EX. I recently had to rent a small car that had almost none of the features that are in my 99 Accord. It did not even have a CD player. I was really glad when I was able to return it and start driving my Accord. You will probably feel the same way everytime you get back in your Lexus. The Cobalt will probably run very well for two or three years and at that point--things will start breaking down. I hope that I am wrong--but don't be surprised if it happened to the Cobalt. Jason -- NEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice. We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people. |
Re: Honda/Toyota vs American
In article <117pike9n52ru07@corp.supernews.com>, "Ron M."
<nobody@nowhere.net> wrote: > "D.D. Palmer" <ddpalmer@hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:UqydnZ8-Vvj_s-3fRVn-sA@comcast.com... > > Your kid bot a Cobalt? A first-year GM ANYTHING...let alone the > > bottom-of-the-line Chevy? A bad, bad, bet. > > GM has seemingly done a good job with the Cobalt from both an interior and > exterior appearance standpoint. Pricing is right too. However, there's > nothing more frightening in the automotive industry than a first-year GM > product. Regardless of whether it is a sedan, pickup truck or SUV. Cobalt > does have loads of potential though. The doors shut with the sound of the > late 80s Mercedes-Benz products. Solid as can be. Overall, you can tell that > GM has tried really, really hard with the Cobalt. It *should* be a winner > for them if it doesn't have too many introductory year bugs that scare > people off for subsequent year purchases. I would even consider a Cobalt > myself as a daily commuter car after it has been in production for three > full years. It has plenty of room in it, should be good on fuel economy, > looks decent enough if cosmetics are your thing, and can be well equipped if > you're willing to spring for the LT package. I have my eye on this one as a > fourth vehicle to be used mainly for commuting back and forth to work. It > definitely won't be a replacement for my 2002 Lexus IS300. I will always > have more confidence in the overall reliability of my Lexus, Honda and > Nissan products than I would a second or third year domestic. Wouldn't > matter to me if it were a GM, Ford OR Daimler-Chrysler product. > > Ron M. Ron, After driving a Lexus for several years, you will learn to really hate driving the Cobalt. I own a 99 Accord EX. I recently had to rent a small car that had almost none of the features that are in my 99 Accord. It did not even have a CD player. I was really glad when I was able to return it and start driving my Accord. You will probably feel the same way everytime you get back in your Lexus. The Cobalt will probably run very well for two or three years and at that point--things will start breaking down. I hope that I am wrong--but don't be surprised if it happened to the Cobalt. Jason -- NEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice. We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people. |
Re: Honda/Toyota vs American
"Jason" <jason@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:jason-0705050911190001@pm4-broad-39.snlo.dialup.fix.net... > In article <117pike9n52ru07@corp.supernews.com>, "Ron M." > <nobody@nowhere.net> wrote: > > > "D.D. Palmer" <ddpalmer@hotmail.com> wrote in message > > news:UqydnZ8-Vvj_s-3fRVn-sA@comcast.com... > > > Your kid bot a Cobalt? A first-year GM ANYTHING...let alone the > > > bottom-of-the-line Chevy? A bad, bad, bet. > > > > GM has seemingly done a good job with the Cobalt from both an interior and > > exterior appearance standpoint. Pricing is right too. However, there's > > nothing more frightening in the automotive industry than a first-year GM > > product. Regardless of whether it is a sedan, pickup truck or SUV. Cobalt > > does have loads of potential though. The doors shut with the sound of the > > late 80s Mercedes-Benz products. Solid as can be. Overall, you can tell that > > GM has tried really, really hard with the Cobalt. It *should* be a winner > > for them if it doesn't have too many introductory year bugs that scare > > people off for subsequent year purchases. I would even consider a Cobalt > > myself as a daily commuter car after it has been in production for three > > full years. It has plenty of room in it, should be good on fuel economy, > > looks decent enough if cosmetics are your thing, and can be well equipped if > > you're willing to spring for the LT package. I have my eye on this one as a > > fourth vehicle to be used mainly for commuting back and forth to work. It > > definitely won't be a replacement for my 2002 Lexus IS300. I will always > > have more confidence in the overall reliability of my Lexus, Honda and > > Nissan products than I would a second or third year domestic. Wouldn't > > matter to me if it were a GM, Ford OR Daimler-Chrysler product. > > > > Ron M. > > Ron, > After driving a Lexus for several years, you will learn to really hate > driving the Cobalt. I own a 99 Accord EX. I recently had to rent a small > car that had almost none of the features that are in my 99 Accord. It did > not even have a CD player. I was really glad when I was able to return it > and start driving my Accord. You will probably feel the same way everytime > you get back in your Lexus. The Cobalt will probably run very well for two > or three years and at that point--things will start breaking down. I hope > that I am wrong--but don't be surprised if it happened to the Cobalt. > Jason Hi Jason, Thanks for the response--and I understand where you're coming from here. Sometimes it's tough getting back into my 1990 Nissan 300ZX and driving it after having driven my IS300 for a few days straight. You're right in that you do get spoiled to an upgraded vehicle. :-) I was hoping that maybe a well-equipped Cobalt wouldn't be such an extreme letdown from the IS300, but maybe it would be. I'd have to take a Cobalt on a long, long, LONG test drive before purchasing one for a work commuter. The General hasn't gotten my money yet. :-) At this point it's nothing more than a thought. Take care and have a great weekend.\ Ron M. |
Re: Honda/Toyota vs American
"Jason" <jason@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:jason-0705050911190001@pm4-broad-39.snlo.dialup.fix.net... > In article <117pike9n52ru07@corp.supernews.com>, "Ron M." > <nobody@nowhere.net> wrote: > > > "D.D. Palmer" <ddpalmer@hotmail.com> wrote in message > > news:UqydnZ8-Vvj_s-3fRVn-sA@comcast.com... > > > Your kid bot a Cobalt? A first-year GM ANYTHING...let alone the > > > bottom-of-the-line Chevy? A bad, bad, bet. > > > > GM has seemingly done a good job with the Cobalt from both an interior and > > exterior appearance standpoint. Pricing is right too. However, there's > > nothing more frightening in the automotive industry than a first-year GM > > product. Regardless of whether it is a sedan, pickup truck or SUV. Cobalt > > does have loads of potential though. The doors shut with the sound of the > > late 80s Mercedes-Benz products. Solid as can be. Overall, you can tell that > > GM has tried really, really hard with the Cobalt. It *should* be a winner > > for them if it doesn't have too many introductory year bugs that scare > > people off for subsequent year purchases. I would even consider a Cobalt > > myself as a daily commuter car after it has been in production for three > > full years. It has plenty of room in it, should be good on fuel economy, > > looks decent enough if cosmetics are your thing, and can be well equipped if > > you're willing to spring for the LT package. I have my eye on this one as a > > fourth vehicle to be used mainly for commuting back and forth to work. It > > definitely won't be a replacement for my 2002 Lexus IS300. I will always > > have more confidence in the overall reliability of my Lexus, Honda and > > Nissan products than I would a second or third year domestic. Wouldn't > > matter to me if it were a GM, Ford OR Daimler-Chrysler product. > > > > Ron M. > > Ron, > After driving a Lexus for several years, you will learn to really hate > driving the Cobalt. I own a 99 Accord EX. I recently had to rent a small > car that had almost none of the features that are in my 99 Accord. It did > not even have a CD player. I was really glad when I was able to return it > and start driving my Accord. You will probably feel the same way everytime > you get back in your Lexus. The Cobalt will probably run very well for two > or three years and at that point--things will start breaking down. I hope > that I am wrong--but don't be surprised if it happened to the Cobalt. > Jason Hi Jason, Thanks for the response--and I understand where you're coming from here. Sometimes it's tough getting back into my 1990 Nissan 300ZX and driving it after having driven my IS300 for a few days straight. You're right in that you do get spoiled to an upgraded vehicle. :-) I was hoping that maybe a well-equipped Cobalt wouldn't be such an extreme letdown from the IS300, but maybe it would be. I'd have to take a Cobalt on a long, long, LONG test drive before purchasing one for a work commuter. The General hasn't gotten my money yet. :-) At this point it's nothing more than a thought. Take care and have a great weekend.\ Ron M. |
Re: Honda/Toyota vs American
In article <117q0eoji1shd01@corp.supernews.com>, "Ron M."
<nobody@nowhere.net> wrote: > "Jason" <jason@nospam.com> wrote in message > news:jason-0705050911190001@pm4-broad-39.snlo.dialup.fix.net... > > In article <117pike9n52ru07@corp.supernews.com>, "Ron M." > > <nobody@nowhere.net> wrote: > > > > > "D.D. Palmer" <ddpalmer@hotmail.com> wrote in message > > > news:UqydnZ8-Vvj_s-3fRVn-sA@comcast.com... > > > > Your kid bot a Cobalt? A first-year GM ANYTHING...let alone the > > > > bottom-of-the-line Chevy? A bad, bad, bet. > > > > > > GM has seemingly done a good job with the Cobalt from both an interior > and > > > exterior appearance standpoint. Pricing is right too. However, there's > > > nothing more frightening in the automotive industry than a first-year GM > > > product. Regardless of whether it is a sedan, pickup truck or SUV. > Cobalt > > > does have loads of potential though. The doors shut with the sound of > the > > > late 80s Mercedes-Benz products. Solid as can be. Overall, you can tell > that > > > GM has tried really, really hard with the Cobalt. It *should* be a > winner > > > for them if it doesn't have too many introductory year bugs that scare > > > people off for subsequent year purchases. I would even consider a Cobalt > > > myself as a daily commuter car after it has been in production for three > > > full years. It has plenty of room in it, should be good on fuel economy, > > > looks decent enough if cosmetics are your thing, and can be well > equipped if > > > you're willing to spring for the LT package. I have my eye on this one > as a > > > fourth vehicle to be used mainly for commuting back and forth to work. > It > > > definitely won't be a replacement for my 2002 Lexus IS300. I will always > > > have more confidence in the overall reliability of my Lexus, Honda and > > > Nissan products than I would a second or third year domestic. Wouldn't > > > matter to me if it were a GM, Ford OR Daimler-Chrysler product. > > > > > > Ron M. > > > > Ron, > > After driving a Lexus for several years, you will learn to really hate > > driving the Cobalt. I own a 99 Accord EX. I recently had to rent a small > > car that had almost none of the features that are in my 99 Accord. It did > > not even have a CD player. I was really glad when I was able to return it > > and start driving my Accord. You will probably feel the same way everytime > > you get back in your Lexus. The Cobalt will probably run very well for two > > or three years and at that point--things will start breaking down. I hope > > that I am wrong--but don't be surprised if it happened to the Cobalt. > > Jason > > Hi Jason, > > Thanks for the response--and I understand where you're coming from here. > Sometimes it's tough getting back into my 1990 Nissan 300ZX and driving > it after having driven my IS300 for a few days straight. You're right in > that > you do get spoiled to an upgraded vehicle. :-) I was hoping that maybe a > well-equipped Cobalt wouldn't be such an extreme letdown from the IS300, > but maybe it would be. I'd have to take a Cobalt on a long, long, LONG test > drive before purchasing one for a work commuter. The General hasn't gotten > my money yet. :-) At this point it's nothing more than a thought. > > Take care and have a great weekend.\ > > Ron M. If you do decide to get a Cobalt instead of Honda, make sure that it has the most powerful engine that comes in a Cobalt. The small car that I rented had a really small engine (1.5). It ran really well in the city but when I went up a grade, I had to hold the gas pedal to the floor just to keep up with the traffic. I never have had to that with my Honda Accord. Jason -- NEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice. We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people. |
Re: Honda/Toyota vs American
In article <117q0eoji1shd01@corp.supernews.com>, "Ron M."
<nobody@nowhere.net> wrote: > "Jason" <jason@nospam.com> wrote in message > news:jason-0705050911190001@pm4-broad-39.snlo.dialup.fix.net... > > In article <117pike9n52ru07@corp.supernews.com>, "Ron M." > > <nobody@nowhere.net> wrote: > > > > > "D.D. Palmer" <ddpalmer@hotmail.com> wrote in message > > > news:UqydnZ8-Vvj_s-3fRVn-sA@comcast.com... > > > > Your kid bot a Cobalt? A first-year GM ANYTHING...let alone the > > > > bottom-of-the-line Chevy? A bad, bad, bet. > > > > > > GM has seemingly done a good job with the Cobalt from both an interior > and > > > exterior appearance standpoint. Pricing is right too. However, there's > > > nothing more frightening in the automotive industry than a first-year GM > > > product. Regardless of whether it is a sedan, pickup truck or SUV. > Cobalt > > > does have loads of potential though. The doors shut with the sound of > the > > > late 80s Mercedes-Benz products. Solid as can be. Overall, you can tell > that > > > GM has tried really, really hard with the Cobalt. It *should* be a > winner > > > for them if it doesn't have too many introductory year bugs that scare > > > people off for subsequent year purchases. I would even consider a Cobalt > > > myself as a daily commuter car after it has been in production for three > > > full years. It has plenty of room in it, should be good on fuel economy, > > > looks decent enough if cosmetics are your thing, and can be well > equipped if > > > you're willing to spring for the LT package. I have my eye on this one > as a > > > fourth vehicle to be used mainly for commuting back and forth to work. > It > > > definitely won't be a replacement for my 2002 Lexus IS300. I will always > > > have more confidence in the overall reliability of my Lexus, Honda and > > > Nissan products than I would a second or third year domestic. Wouldn't > > > matter to me if it were a GM, Ford OR Daimler-Chrysler product. > > > > > > Ron M. > > > > Ron, > > After driving a Lexus for several years, you will learn to really hate > > driving the Cobalt. I own a 99 Accord EX. I recently had to rent a small > > car that had almost none of the features that are in my 99 Accord. It did > > not even have a CD player. I was really glad when I was able to return it > > and start driving my Accord. You will probably feel the same way everytime > > you get back in your Lexus. The Cobalt will probably run very well for two > > or three years and at that point--things will start breaking down. I hope > > that I am wrong--but don't be surprised if it happened to the Cobalt. > > Jason > > Hi Jason, > > Thanks for the response--and I understand where you're coming from here. > Sometimes it's tough getting back into my 1990 Nissan 300ZX and driving > it after having driven my IS300 for a few days straight. You're right in > that > you do get spoiled to an upgraded vehicle. :-) I was hoping that maybe a > well-equipped Cobalt wouldn't be such an extreme letdown from the IS300, > but maybe it would be. I'd have to take a Cobalt on a long, long, LONG test > drive before purchasing one for a work commuter. The General hasn't gotten > my money yet. :-) At this point it's nothing more than a thought. > > Take care and have a great weekend.\ > > Ron M. If you do decide to get a Cobalt instead of Honda, make sure that it has the most powerful engine that comes in a Cobalt. The small car that I rented had a really small engine (1.5). It ran really well in the city but when I went up a grade, I had to hold the gas pedal to the floor just to keep up with the traffic. I never have had to that with my Honda Accord. Jason -- NEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice. We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people. |
| All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:52 AM. |
© 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands