Honda v6 Timing chain
 

Does any one know of Honda putting timing chains on the future V6's

Re: Honda v6 Timing chain
 

hope not. Timing belt is a helluva lot easier to
replace than a chain, cheaper too.

Alot of fuss is made over the Timing belt. After
doing it on my own on my 98 civic, I realized
its not such a big deal. And some of the horror
stories I have heard about chains, definitely
make me hope that Honda doesn't cave to the
pressure... Unless they can design one that won't
need to be replaced.

t

Re: Honda v6 Timing chain
 

hope not. Timing belt is a helluva lot easier to
replace than a chain, cheaper too.

Alot of fuss is made over the Timing belt. After
doing it on my own on my 98 civic, I realized
its not such a big deal. And some of the horror
stories I have heard about chains, definitely
make me hope that Honda doesn't cave to the
pressure... Unless they can design one that won't
need to be replaced.

t

Re: Honda v6 Timing chain
 

"disallow" <loewen_t at yahoo.ca @> wrote in message
news:a087acc57f0e368c5e7f83eda9c4b963@localhost.ta lkaboutautos.com...
> hope not. Timing belt is a helluva lot easier to
> replace than a chain, cheaper too.
>
> Alot of fuss is made over the Timing belt. After
> doing it on my own on my 98 civic, I realized
> its not such a big deal. And some of the horror
> stories I have heard about chains, definitely
> make me hope that Honda doesn't cave to the
> pressure... Unless they can design one that won't
> need to be replaced.
>
> t
>
Count me in on that sentiment. Worn chains can jump or break, and when the
wear increases beyond the snubber capacity the chains tend to wear the
timing chain housing out from the inside out. It is a common and frustrating
failure mode in '80s Toyota engines. I traded our '84 Dodge with the
Mitsubishi Silent Shaft 2.6L engine because the timing chain was worn out at
90K miles, and replacement would cost more than the car was worth.

Mike

Re: Honda v6 Timing chain
 

"disallow" <loewen_t at yahoo.ca @> wrote in message
news:a087acc57f0e368c5e7f83eda9c4b963@localhost.ta lkaboutautos.com...
> hope not. Timing belt is a helluva lot easier to
> replace than a chain, cheaper too.
>
> Alot of fuss is made over the Timing belt. After
> doing it on my own on my 98 civic, I realized
> its not such a big deal. And some of the horror
> stories I have heard about chains, definitely
> make me hope that Honda doesn't cave to the
> pressure... Unless they can design one that won't
> need to be replaced.
>
> t
>
Count me in on that sentiment. Worn chains can jump or break, and when the
wear increases beyond the snubber capacity the chains tend to wear the
timing chain housing out from the inside out. It is a common and frustrating
failure mode in '80s Toyota engines. I traded our '84 Dodge with the
Mitsubishi Silent Shaft 2.6L engine because the timing chain was worn out at
90K miles, and replacement would cost more than the car was worth.

Mike

Re: Honda v6 Timing chain
 

disallow wrote:
>
> hope not. Timing belt is a helluva lot easier to
> replace than a chain, cheaper too.
>
> Alot of fuss is made over the Timing belt. After
> doing it on my own on my 98 civic, I realized
> its not such a big deal. And some of the horror
> stories I have heard about chains, definitely
> make me hope that Honda doesn't cave to the
> pressure... Unless they can design one that won't
> need to be replaced.


Too late. The iVTEC 4-bangers have timing chains. If they put iVTEC on
the V6, they'll probably use a chain as well.

>
> t

--
================================================== =====
A very modest collection of Honda tech info can be found at:
http://www.geocities.com/ng_randolph

Re: Honda v6 Timing chain
 

disallow wrote:
>
> hope not. Timing belt is a helluva lot easier to
> replace than a chain, cheaper too.
>
> Alot of fuss is made over the Timing belt. After
> doing it on my own on my 98 civic, I realized
> its not such a big deal. And some of the horror
> stories I have heard about chains, definitely
> make me hope that Honda doesn't cave to the
> pressure... Unless they can design one that won't
> need to be replaced.


Too late. The iVTEC 4-bangers have timing chains. If they put iVTEC on
the V6, they'll probably use a chain as well.

>
> t

--
================================================== =====
A very modest collection of Honda tech info can be found at:
http://www.geocities.com/ng_randolph

Re: Honda v6 Timing chain
 

Well that sucks. Though I'm not an engineer,
hopefully Honda had their reasons for doing
this, and it wasn't just a cave to pressure from
everyone who is scared of timing belts.

t

Re: Honda v6 Timing chain
 

Well that sucks. Though I'm not an engineer,
hopefully Honda had their reasons for doing
this, and it wasn't just a cave to pressure from
everyone who is scared of timing belts.

t

Re: Honda v6 Timing chain
 

"disallow" <loewen_t at yahoo.ca @> wrote in
news:7603b66467228bb297e4cee5295c6998@localhost.ta lkaboutautos.com:

> Well that sucks. Though I'm not an engineer,
> hopefully Honda had their reasons for doing
> this, and it wasn't just a cave to pressure from
> everyone who is scared of timing belts.
>


It's in response to Toyota, who made the move to chains some years ago. The
idea is to be able to claim longer service intervals.

The reason chains are getting a bad reputation is because in the old days
nobody expected their OHV engines to last much longer than 100K miles, and
most chains were good up to at least that figure.

However, engineering was paramount. A good, short, OHV chain would last a
long, long time. A long OHC chain on the other hand, might last less than
100K before eating through the chain cover or breaking. Some OHC engines
had chains that were single-row, in addition to their excessive length,
both of which were very bad for longevity (think Triumph Stag 2.5L V8).
Conversely, the 1972-82 Toyota 2T and 3T OHV engines had robustly designed
double-row chains. With regular oil changes they would eventually get very
noisy, but still easily last over 200K.

With people now getting over 200K regularly on all kinds of engines (with
decidedly variable maintenance), they're getting to the limits of chain
life, hence the problems you see. Also, some manufacturers used fiber
sprockets in an attempt to quieten chain noise. Phenolic is not the most
durable material out there.

Toyota's current designs shorten their OHC chains by running the other cam
off a gear from the chain-driven one (like their belt-driven engines).


--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Re: Honda v6 Timing chain
 

"disallow" <loewen_t at yahoo.ca @> wrote in
news:7603b66467228bb297e4cee5295c6998@localhost.ta lkaboutautos.com:

> Well that sucks. Though I'm not an engineer,
> hopefully Honda had their reasons for doing
> this, and it wasn't just a cave to pressure from
> everyone who is scared of timing belts.
>


It's in response to Toyota, who made the move to chains some years ago. The
idea is to be able to claim longer service intervals.

The reason chains are getting a bad reputation is because in the old days
nobody expected their OHV engines to last much longer than 100K miles, and
most chains were good up to at least that figure.

However, engineering was paramount. A good, short, OHV chain would last a
long, long time. A long OHC chain on the other hand, might last less than
100K before eating through the chain cover or breaking. Some OHC engines
had chains that were single-row, in addition to their excessive length,
both of which were very bad for longevity (think Triumph Stag 2.5L V8).
Conversely, the 1972-82 Toyota 2T and 3T OHV engines had robustly designed
double-row chains. With regular oil changes they would eventually get very
noisy, but still easily last over 200K.

With people now getting over 200K regularly on all kinds of engines (with
decidedly variable maintenance), they're getting to the limits of chain
life, hence the problems you see. Also, some manufacturers used fiber
sprockets in an attempt to quieten chain noise. Phenolic is not the most
durable material out there.

Toyota's current designs shorten their OHC chains by running the other cam
off a gear from the chain-driven one (like their belt-driven engines).


--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Re: Honda v6 Timing chain
 

disallow wrote:
> Well that sucks. Though I'm not an engineer,
> hopefully Honda had their reasons for doing
> this, and it wasn't just a cave to pressure from
> everyone who is scared of timing belts.
>
> t
>
i'll bet you that's exactly what /did/ happen. look at all the whining
about belts in recent threads. it's one of those situations where
chains have been out of the picture so long, all the new kids have no
experience with all their problems and think they're some kind of "great
new idea".

Re: Honda v6 Timing chain
 

disallow wrote:
> Well that sucks. Though I'm not an engineer,
> hopefully Honda had their reasons for doing
> this, and it wasn't just a cave to pressure from
> everyone who is scared of timing belts.
>
> t
>
i'll bet you that's exactly what /did/ happen. look at all the whining
about belts in recent threads. it's one of those situations where
chains have been out of the picture so long, all the new kids have no
experience with all their problems and think they're some kind of "great
new idea".

Re: Honda v6 Timing chain
 

I wonder why the best engines in the world use chains.
or gears not belts.
I wonder why all of those trucks that do 500,000 miles before a major
overhaul use chains.
There must be something to they not trusting belts.
Belts are cheaper , quieter and the dealers are guaranteed some schedule
maintenance money.
They must be replaced at a range of 60 to 100 K miles based on manufacturers
recommendation usually owners take them into the dealer for that type of
service.
I had a new car in 1974 and 50 miles from the dealership the belt slipped
and stranded me on the highway.

I hope Honda starts to put them on the V6's soon.


"jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message
news:oLWdnbwowIR6cxbfRVn-2A@speakeasy.net...
> disallow wrote:
>> Well that sucks. Though I'm not an engineer,
>> hopefully Honda had their reasons for doing
>> this, and it wasn't just a cave to pressure from
>> everyone who is scared of timing belts.
>>
>> t
>>
> i'll bet you that's exactly what /did/ happen. look at all the whining
> about belts in recent threads. it's one of those situations where chains
> have been out of the picture so long, all the new kids have no experience
> with all their problems and think they're some kind of "great new idea".
>

Re: Honda v6 Timing chain
 

I wonder why the best engines in the world use chains.
or gears not belts.
I wonder why all of those trucks that do 500,000 miles before a major
overhaul use chains.
There must be something to they not trusting belts.
Belts are cheaper , quieter and the dealers are guaranteed some schedule
maintenance money.
They must be replaced at a range of 60 to 100 K miles based on manufacturers
recommendation usually owners take them into the dealer for that type of
service.
I had a new car in 1974 and 50 miles from the dealership the belt slipped
and stranded me on the highway.

I hope Honda starts to put them on the V6's soon.


"jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message
news:oLWdnbwowIR6cxbfRVn-2A@speakeasy.net...
> disallow wrote:
>> Well that sucks. Though I'm not an engineer,
>> hopefully Honda had their reasons for doing
>> this, and it wasn't just a cave to pressure from
>> everyone who is scared of timing belts.
>>
>> t
>>
> i'll bet you that's exactly what /did/ happen. look at all the whining
> about belts in recent threads. it's one of those situations where chains
> have been out of the picture so long, all the new kids have no experience
> with all their problems and think they're some kind of "great new idea".
>