Hondas ain't what they used to be...
 

I still think Honda is a good car, don't get me wrong...
I bought mine new in 07 and overall I am satisfied with it, BUT I want
to warn people that they ain't quite the "greatest thing" that they
used to be. (But what is? right?)

Well, my biggest complaint and the reason for writing this is the
MILEAGE.

Remember when Civics were known for great mileage? Part of the reason
I bought the Civic was because I wanted to save on gas. And the window
sticker said something like 27mpg. But what I am getting is 21mpg,
yes, in town, I don't do that much freeway or highway driving. Very
disappointing to me, especially now in this gas crisis. So the point
of this post, mainly is, if you are looking for gas mileage, a Civic
ain't the way to go any more.

What Civic does have, and why I bought it, is the best safety features
of a lower priced economy car: side and curtain airbags on both sides
as well as the front airbags and was rated the highest or among the
highest (I forget which) for safety at Consumer Reports.

Now, what else don't I like about my Civic?
1) It's just too damned big. And that may well account for the lack of
good mileage. With my old Hyundai Accent I could get in and out of my
apartment garage with ease. With this thing I have already scratched
both rear side panels because a) it's so big and b) it's designed such
that it gives you the illusion you are not as close as you really are
to things. I'm an excellent driver with 38 years experience under my
belt but this car, I swear, I just can't get a feel for where the rear
bumper and sides are. Something about the way they designed it. Also
part of this is that it has a terrible rear view from the rear view
mirror. It just does not give you a good view - or "feel" - for the
boundaries of the car, and it's much more difficult to see everything
via the rear view mirror than most other cars I've driven.
2) Within the first 6 months I had to take it in because the automatic
gear shifter jammed up on me; it would not go into any gear. After
much messing with it I got it to go (I had to get to work!) and then I
called and found out about the little trick of placing a screwdriver
in the hole they put by the gear shifter for just this purpose.
3) It's already been recalled, for a problem with the brake lights. I
remember when Hondas were almost never part of recalls.

So I'm not saying don't buy a Honda. In fact, I would rate it as about
an 8 on a 10 scale. Quite frankly for ease of driving I liked my
Hyundai Accent much better. Where this Civic excels is in comfort.
It's much more comfortable than my Hyundai was. But the Hyundai was
just as reliable and I owned it for 10 years and put about 70k miles
on it (Yes, I am a low mileage driver! I live near my work and don't
travel a lot.)

All I'm saying is that this Honda wasn't what I thought it was,
especially in terms of mileage and ease of driving (rear view
problems, "sense of boundaries"...), and now a recall on top of it.

So while I can still recommend Honda, I can't quite recommend them as
resoundingly as I did before, particularly as it pertains to the
Civic.

Re: Hondas ain't what they used to be...
 

In article
<c8255508-7cdd-482c-a805-81d8ae166b94@a32g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
mindfulnessnow@gmail.com wrote:

> Now, what else don't I like about my Civic?
> 1) It's just too damned big.

You coulda had a Fit.

If you go back and research, you'll see that today's Civic is bigger
than a mid-80s Accord. Bloat, bloat, bloat.

And today's Accord is probably the size of a Maxima, or even bigger.

The Fit is what the Civic was, and fills that slot in the market.

Re: Hondas ain't what they used to be...
 

The new models are no longer compact cars, but intermediate.
I saw they were lists as 29/33 mileage.
My 2004 averages 33 year round, up to 40 on highway.

Re: Hondas ain't what they used to be...
 

<mindfulnessnow@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:c8255508-7cdd-482c-a805-81d8ae166b94@a32g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>I still think Honda is a good car, don't get me wrong...
> I bought mine new in 07 and overall I am satisfied with it, BUT I want
> to warn people that they ain't quite the "greatest thing" that they
> used to be. (But what is? right?)
>
> Well, my biggest complaint and the reason for writing this is the
> MILEAGE.
>
> Remember when Civics were known for great mileage? Part of the reason
> I bought the Civic was because I wanted to save on gas. And the window
> sticker said something like 27mpg. But what I am getting is 21mpg,
> yes, in town, I don't do that much freeway or highway driving. Very
> disappointing to me, especially now in this gas crisis. So the point
> of this post, mainly is, if you are looking for gas mileage, a Civic
> ain't the way to go any more.

I bought an 08 Ex sedan auto as an alterntative for my wife to drive instead
of her 03 Pilot. Got 32 on urban/hwy driving for the 1st tank. Of course,
until it gets thorougly broken in I don't expect the mileage to be where
ought to be. As for the Pilot -- we kept it since the best trade offer was
$8500. Given that the car has only 75k miles I could not see giving it away.
>
> What Civic does have, and why I bought it, is the best safety features
> of a lower priced economy car: side and curtain airbags on both sides
> as well as the front airbags and was rated the highest or among the
> highest (I forget which) for safety at Consumer Reports.
>
> Now, what else don't I like about my Civic?
> 1) It's just too damned big. And that may well account for the lack of
> good mileage. With my old Hyundai Accent I could get in and out of my
> apartment garage with ease. With this thing I have already scratched
> both rear side panels because a) it's so big and b) it's designed such
> that it gives you the illusion you are not as close as you really are
> to things. I'm an excellent driver with 38 years experience under my
> belt but this car, I swear, I just can't get a feel for where the rear
> bumper and sides are. Something about the way they designed it. Also
> part of this is that it has a terrible rear view from the rear view
> mirror. It just does not give you a good view - or "feel" - for the
> boundaries of the car, and it's much more difficult to see everything
> via the rear view mirror than most other cars I've driven.
> 2) Within the first 6 months I had to take it in because the automatic
> gear shifter jammed up on me; it would not go into any gear. After
> much messing with it I got it to go (I had to get to work!) and then I
> called and found out about the little trick of placing a screwdriver
> in the hole they put by the gear shifter for just this purpose.
> 3) It's already been recalled, for a problem with the brake lights. I
> remember when Hondas were almost never part of recalls.
>
> So I'm not saying don't buy a Honda. In fact, I would rate it as about
> an 8 on a 10 scale. Quite frankly for ease of driving I liked my
> Hyundai Accent much better. Where this Civic excels is in comfort.
> It's much more comfortable than my Hyundai was. But the Hyundai was
> just as reliable and I owned it for 10 years and put about 70k miles
> on it (Yes, I am a low mileage driver! I live near my work and don't
> travel a lot.)
>
> All I'm saying is that this Honda wasn't what I thought it was,
> especially in terms of mileage and ease of driving (rear view
> problems, "sense of boundaries"...), and now a recall on top of it.
>
> So while I can still recommend Honda, I can't quite recommend them as
> resoundingly as I did before, particularly as it pertains to the
> Civic.
>

Re: Hondas ain't what they used to be...
 

<mindfulnessnow@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:c8255508-7cdd-482c-a805-81d8ae166b94@a32g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>I still think Honda is a good car, don't get me wrong...
> I bought mine new in 07 and overall I am satisfied with it, BUT I
> want
> to warn people that they ain't quite the "greatest thing" that they
> used to be. (But what is? right?)
>
> Well, my biggest complaint and the reason for writing this is the
> MILEAGE.
>
> Remember when Civics were known for great mileage? Part of the
> reason
> I bought the Civic was because I wanted to save on gas. And the
> window
> sticker said something like 27mpg. But what I am getting is 21mpg,
> yes, in town, I don't do that much freeway or highway driving. Very

I get more than that with my 04 V6 Accord (22-23 'round town, 29-30
highway)....

> disappointing to me, especially now in this gas crisis. So the point
> of this post, mainly is, if you are looking for gas mileage, a Civic
> ain't the way to go any more.
>
> What Civic does have, and why I bought it, is the best safety
> features
> of a lower priced economy car: side and curtain airbags on both
> sides
> as well as the front airbags and was rated the highest or among the
> highest (I forget which) for safety at Consumer Reports.
>
> Now, what else don't I like about my Civic?
> 1) It's just too damned big. And that may well account for the lack
> of
> good mileage. With my old Hyundai Accent I could get in and out of
> my
> apartment garage with ease. With this thing I have already scratched
> both rear side panels because a) it's so big and b) it's designed
> such
> that it gives you the illusion you are not as close as you really
> are
> to things. I'm an excellent driver with 38 years experience under my
> belt but this car, I swear, I just can't get a feel for where the
> rear
> bumper and sides are. Something about the way they designed it. Also
> part of this is that it has a terrible rear view from the rear view
> mirror. It just does not give you a good view - or "feel" - for the
> boundaries of the car, and it's much more difficult to see
> everything
> via the rear view mirror than most other cars I've driven.
> 2) Within the first 6 months I had to take it in because the
> automatic
> gear shifter jammed up on me; it would not go into any gear. After
> much messing with it I got it to go (I had to get to work!) and then
> I
> called and found out about the little trick of placing a screwdriver
> in the hole they put by the gear shifter for just this purpose.
> 3) It's already been recalled, for a problem with the brake lights.
> I
> remember when Hondas were almost never part of recalls.
>
> So I'm not saying don't buy a Honda. In fact, I would rate it as
> about
> an 8 on a 10 scale. Quite frankly for ease of driving I liked my
> Hyundai Accent much better. Where this Civic excels is in comfort.
> It's much more comfortable than my Hyundai was. But the Hyundai was
> just as reliable and I owned it for 10 years and put about 70k miles
> on it (Yes, I am a low mileage driver! I live near my work and don't
> travel a lot.)
>
> All I'm saying is that this Honda wasn't what I thought it was,
> especially in terms of mileage and ease of driving (rear view
> problems, "sense of boundaries"...), and now a recall on top of it.
>
> So while I can still recommend Honda, I can't quite recommend them
> as
> resoundingly as I did before, particularly as it pertains to the
> Civic.
>

the civic is still small in it's class but they have gotten bigger, expect them to get bigger in the future

Re: Hondas ain't what they used to be...
 

<mindfulnessnow@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:c8255508-7cdd-482c-a805-81d8ae166b94@a32g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
> Now, what else don't I like about my Civic?
> 1) It's just too damned big. And that may well account for the lack of
> good mileage. With my old Hyundai Accent I could get in and out of my
> apartment garage with ease. With this thing I have already scratched
> both rear side panels because a) it's so big and b) it's designed such
> that it gives you the illusion you are not as close as you really are
> to things. I'm an excellent driver with 38 years experience under my
> belt but this car, I swear, I just can't get a feel for where the rear
> bumper and sides are. Something about the way they designed it. Also
> part of this is that it has a terrible rear view from the rear view
> mirror. It just does not give you a good view - or "feel" - for the
> boundaries of the car, and it's much more difficult to see everything
> via the rear view mirror than most other cars I've driven.

Agreed. If someone wants a little Honda, then they need to go with the Fit.
To me it seems like the Civic is the size that the Accord used to be. And
now the Accord is huge. My wife's Accord and my Fit are about all our
garage can handle.

Re: Hondas ain't what they used to be...
 

Truckdude wrote:
> <mindfulnessnow@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:c8255508-7cdd-482c-a805-81d8ae166b94@a32g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>> Now, what else don't I like about my Civic?
>> 1) It's just too damned big. And that may well account for the lack of
>> good mileage. With my old Hyundai Accent I could get in and out of my
>> apartment garage with ease. With this thing I have already scratched
>> both rear side panels because a) it's so big and b) it's designed such
>> that it gives you the illusion you are not as close as you really are
>> to things. I'm an excellent driver with 38 years experience under my
>> belt but this car, I swear, I just can't get a feel for where the rear
>> bumper and sides are. Something about the way they designed it. Also
>> part of this is that it has a terrible rear view from the rear view
>> mirror. It just does not give you a good view - or "feel" - for the
>> boundaries of the car, and it's much more difficult to see everything
>> via the rear view mirror than most other cars I've driven.
>
> Agreed. If someone wants a little Honda, then they need to go with the Fit.
> To me it seems like the Civic is the size that the Accord used to be. And
> now the Accord is huge. My wife's Accord and my Fit are about all our
> garage can handle.

I owned a 1986 Accord 2-door hatchback, and today's Civics seem to me to
be as big as my old 1986 Accord:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:H...atch_front.jpg


--
Steven L.
Email: sdlitvin@earthlinkNOSPAM.net
Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.

Re: Hondas ain't what they used to be...
 

On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 10:39:52 -0700 (PDT), mindfulnessnow@gmail.com
wrote:

>Remember when Civics were known for great mileage?

They were smaller.

They weighed 1000 pounds less.

They accelerated more slowly.

The Fit is slightly smaller, but is still very heavy and has more
power than a mileage-maker should.

Heavy is a cheap and easy way to get safety and quietness, but I am
ashamed that Honda isn't leading in the race to get the same safety
and quietness with high tech materials, instead. Of course, nobody
else is leading, either. But it's darned odd, I'll bet they could
sell a lot of 1979 Civics if they just started building them again!

J.

Re: Hondas ain't what they used to be...
 

"JXStern" <JXSternChangeX2R@gte.net> wrote in message
news:fmqs64dr0om4ihgorb7j2mcu6hnkr96quj@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 10:39:52 -0700 (PDT), mindfulnessnow@gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>>Remember when Civics were known for great mileage?
>
> They were smaller.
>
> They weighed 1000 pounds less.
>
> They accelerated more slowly.
>
> The Fit is slightly smaller, but is still very heavy and has more
> power than a mileage-maker should.
>

Do you own one?

Re: Hondas ain't what they used to be...
 

JXStern wrote:
> On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 10:39:52 -0700 (PDT), mindfulnessnow@gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>
>>Remember when Civics were known for great mileage?
>
>
> They were smaller.
>
> They weighed 1000 pounds less.
>
> They accelerated more slowly.
>
> The Fit is slightly smaller, but is still very heavy and has more
> power than a mileage-maker should.
>
> Heavy is a cheap and easy way to get safety and quietness, but I am
> ashamed that Honda isn't leading in the race to get the same safety
> and quietness with high tech materials, instead. Of course, nobody
> else is leading, either. But it's darned odd, I'll bet they could
> sell a lot of 1979 Civics if they just started building them again!
>
> J.
>
>


Yes in my case, (Gen 2 Civics). I have an '82 and '83 and just located
another '83 automatic and '81. All are hatchbacks.

I may go into the Honda biz...

JT

(Whose '83 averages 40+ mpg in mixed driving)

Re: Hondas ain't what they used to be...
 

On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 16:18:12 -0700, "Truckdude" <shrub@thedeecider.com>
wrote:

>> The Fit is slightly smaller, but is still very heavy and has more
>> power than a mileage-maker should.
>
>Do you own one?

No.

J.

Re: Hondas ain't what they used to be...
 

On 2008-06-29 13:39:52 -0400, mindfulnessnow@gmail.com said:

> All I'm saying is that this Honda wasn't what I thought it was,
> especially in terms of mileage and ease of driving (rear view
> problems, "sense of boundaries"...), and now a recall on top of it.

I'm a little disappointed in my wife's '07 4D Civic. I've bought more
Hondas than any other brand -- a yellow '76 Civic 5 spd was my first.

I bought my wife a Civic because all the car magazines and Consumer
Reports gave it such glowing reviews -- and my past Honda experience.

Road noise is excessive and that horn wouldn't be adequate on a
bicycle. I don't regret the purchase, but they should have done a
little better.

Re: Hondas ain't what they used to be...
 

Exactly true on the horn. Think they got a heckofa deal
on a couple hundred thousand toy horns?






On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 22:49:38 -0400, Torpeau <torpeau@mac.com> wrote:

>On 2008-06-29 13:39:52 -0400, mindfulnessnow@gmail.com said:
>
>> All I'm saying is that this Honda wasn't what I thought it was,
>> especially in terms of mileage and ease of driving (rear view
>> problems, "sense of boundaries"...), and now a recall on top of it.
>
>I'm a little disappointed in my wife's '07 4D Civic. I've bought more
>Hondas than any other brand -- a yellow '76 Civic 5 spd was my first.
>
>I bought my wife a Civic because all the car magazines and Consumer
>Reports gave it such glowing reviews -- and my past Honda experience.
>
>Road noise is excessive and that horn wouldn't be adequate on a
>bicycle. I don't regret the purchase, but they should have done a
>little better.

Re: Hondas ain't what they used to be...
 

On Jul 11, 12:51 pm, muzzy <x33y...@charter.net> wrote:
> Exactly true on the horn. Think they got a heckofa deal
> on a couple hundred thousand toy horns?
>
> On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 22:49:38 -0400, Torpeau <torp...@mac.com> wrote:
> >On 2008-06-29 13:39:52 -0400, mindfulness...@gmail.com said:
>
> >> All I'm saying is that this Honda wasn't what I thought it was,
> >> especially in terms of mileage and ease of driving (rear view
> >> problems, "sense of boundaries"...), and now a recall on top of it.
>
> >I'm a little disappointed in my wife's '07 4D Civic. I've bought more
> >Hondas than any other brand -- a yellow '76 Civic 5 spd was my first.
>
> >I bought my wife a Civic because all the car magazines and Consumer
> >Reports gave it such glowing reviews -- and my past Honda experience.
>
> >Road noise is excessive and that horn wouldn't be adequate on a
> >bicycle. I don't regret the purchase, but they should have done a
> >little better.

I guess I just didn't realize how MUCH BIGGER the new Civics are than
the Civics of old, and this of course plays a major part in their
downright LOUSY MILEAGE. If I had known I could have gotten a Hybrid
for not too much more I'd have bought one. Also, had I known regular
gas was going to go to $4.65/gallon here in California...

Anyway, not only does the new Civic get lousy mileage in town, it also
is harder to drive (see my original post).

I took it on its first long distance drive, though, a few weeks ago
and I got around 32mpg on the highway which was nice, and I loved the
cruise control (1st time using it). The ride was very comfortable and
the a.c. worked great even in 100+ degree weather, going up hills and
such. In short, the car was great for a road trip!

I just wish I'd have bought a hybrid, and I wish they'd have made it
just a little smaller, not too small - to me, the Fit is way TOO
small! - but just more like the Civic's of a few years ago.