|
How long can a Civic last?
In 1995, I bought a brand-new 1995 Honda Civic.
I still own it. I've got 88,000 miles on it. And it's still running great. How long can one of these puppies last, before something catastrophic happens, like the engine dies for good or the suspension collapses for good? -- -- Steven L. sdlitvin@earthlinkNOSPAM.net Remove the "NOSPAM" before sending to this email address. |
Re: How long can a Civic last?
On Jan 18, 1:30 pm, "Steven L." <sdlit...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> In 1995, I bought a brand-new 1995 Honda Civic. > I still own it. > I've got 88,000 miles on it. > And it's still running great. > > How long can one of these puppies last, before something catastrophic > happens, like the engine dies for good or the suspension collapses for > good? > > -- > -- > Steven L. > sdlit...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net > Remove the "NOSPAM" before sending to this email address. I've got a Civic from the same year, only it has about 285,000 miles on it. Still runs fine, although the rear power window motors have gone bad... Bhaskar |
Re: How long can a Civic last?
"Steven L." <sdlitvin@earthlink.net> wrote in news:9LWdnUP7o-
1xT8nWnZ2dnUVZ_hCdnZ2d@earthlink.com: > In 1995, I bought a brand-new 1995 Honda Civic. > I still own it. > I've got 88,000 miles on it. > And it's still running great. > > How long can one of these puppies last, before something catastrophic > happens, like the engine dies for good or the suspension collapses for > good? > > Dump it quick. It won't last. My '91 Integra, which is Civic-based, is only 19 years old and has a paltry 336,000 miles on it. I'm so disappointed that I've decided never to buy another brand-new '91 Integra ever again. -- Tegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ |
Re: How long can a Civic last?
On Mon, 18 Jan 2010 22:59:02 +0000 (UTC), Tegger <invalid@invalid.inv>
wrote: >"Steven L." <sdlitvin@earthlink.net> wrote in news:9LWdnUP7o- >1xT8nWnZ2dnUVZ_hCdnZ2d@earthlink.com: > >> In 1995, I bought a brand-new 1995 Honda Civic. >> I still own it. >> I've got 88,000 miles on it. >> And it's still running great. >> >> How long can one of these puppies last, before something catastrophic >> happens, like the engine dies for good or the suspension collapses for >> good? >> >> > > > >Dump it quick. It won't last. > >My '91 Integra, which is Civic-based, is only 19 years old and has a paltry >336,000 miles on it. > >I'm so disappointed that I've decided never to buy another brand-new '91 >Integra ever again. Good plan. We had a '92 Civic and ran it up to 350,000. Sold it in 2000 and car is still on the road. To the OP, Honda engines are a remarkable piece of work. Regular oil changes, timing belt and a few other steps it will last much longer than anticipated. Drop us a line when you hit 200k |
Re: How long can a Civic last?
In article <9LWdnUP7o-1xT8nWnZ2dnUVZ_hCdnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
"Steven L." <sdlitvin@earthlink.net> wrote: > In 1995, I bought a brand-new 1995 Honda Civic. > I still own it. > I've got 88,000 miles on it. > And it's still running great. > > How long can one of these puppies last, before something catastrophic > happens, like the engine dies for good or the suspension collapses for > good? If you drive it regularly, somewhere around 120K miles you'll find that a bunch of things come up all at once to make you wonder if it's time to get rid of it. But you spend the $2000 or so to get them all straightened out, and go for another 120K miles. |
Re: How long can a Civic last?
In article <8nq9l5ppv991hqnic2akh8vriseruk185b@4ax.com>,
Dick G <biteme@dick.com> wrote: > To the OP, Honda engines are a > remarkable piece of work. correction: Honda four-bangers are a remarkable piece of work. Jewels, actually. The sixes...eh. |
Re: How long can a Civic last?
On Mon, 18 Jan 2010 18:47:28 -0500, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
<elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote: >In article <8nq9l5ppv991hqnic2akh8vriseruk185b@4ax.com>, > Dick G <biteme@dick.com> wrote: > >> To the OP, Honda engines are a >> remarkable piece of work. > >correction: Honda four-bangers are a remarkable piece of work. Jewels, >actually. > >The sixes...eh. I have a 2003 V6 with 315,000. Still purring like a kitten |
Re: How long can a Civic last?
"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
news:elmop-E7B757.18472818012010@news.eternal-september.org... > In article <8nq9l5ppv991hqnic2akh8vriseruk185b@4ax.com>, > Dick G <biteme@dick.com> wrote: > >> To the OP, Honda engines are a >> remarkable piece of work. > > correction: Honda four-bangers are a remarkable piece of work. Jewels, > actually. > > The sixes...eh. Yup. my '01 EX-V6 with 242,xxx miles on it must be a dud. Probably cause I don't change the oil till the rudimentary MM tells me to. |
Re: How long can a Civic last?
Silly question.
Dont even ask if you have less than 300K. |
Re: How long can a Civic last?
On 01/18/2010 01:30 PM, Steven L. wrote:
> In 1995, I bought a brand-new 1995 Honda Civic. > I still own it. > I've got 88,000 miles on it. > And it's still running great. > > How long can one of these puppies last, before something catastrophic > happens, like the engine dies for good or the suspension collapses for > good? > > > -- > -- > Steven L. > sdlitvin@earthlinkNOSPAM.net > Remove the "NOSPAM" before sending to this email address. > > routine: * timing belt - replace on schedule. * radiator - the polymer tanks tend to crack. if they do, you boil the motor and that usually means a head gasket. better to spend <$150 preemptively and buy yourself another 10-15 years of no problems. drive shaft boots. like tegger, better to replace and keep your honda driveshafts than get stuck with aftermarket which don't last a fraction of the time and which aren't balanced as well. run until failed - typically around 150k: * alternator * starter some after-market rebuilds are CRAP [aluminum slip rings in alternators???!!!]. get honda-spec re-builds. or buy new - brand new denso starters and alternators are readily available at good prices online. reasonably maintained, these motors last 300k+. suspension doesn't collapse, but some bushings like to be replaced - notably the rear swing arm. shocks like to be replaced every 15 years or so. personally, i do /not/ recommend replacing oil seals [during the timing belt change] unless they're actually leaking. removal can easily damage the sealing surface, and they're frequently more problem after replacement than left alone. if you do see leaking, change the engine oil to a different one with a better seal conditioner before rushing to replace seals. google this group for some write-ups on this. ask if you have more questions. |
Re: How long can a Civic last?
On 01/18/2010 02:59 PM, Tegger wrote:
> "Steven L."<sdlitvin@earthlink.net> wrote in news:9LWdnUP7o- > 1xT8nWnZ2dnUVZ_hCdnZ2d@earthlink.com: > >> In 1995, I bought a brand-new 1995 Honda Civic. >> I still own it. >> I've got 88,000 miles on it. >> And it's still running great. >> >> How long can one of these puppies last, before something catastrophic >> happens, like the engine dies for good or the suspension collapses for >> good? >> >> > > > > Dump it quick. It won't last. > > My '91 Integra, which is Civic-based, is only 19 years old and has a paltry > 336,000 miles on it. > > I'm so disappointed that I've decided never to buy another brand-new '91 > Integra ever again. > > potm! |
Re: How long can a Civic last?
On 01/18/2010 03:46 PM, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article<9LWdnUP7o-1xT8nWnZ2dnUVZ_hCdnZ2d@earthlink.com>, > "Steven L."<sdlitvin@earthlink.net> wrote: > >> In 1995, I bought a brand-new 1995 Honda Civic. >> I still own it. >> I've got 88,000 miles on it. >> And it's still running great. >> >> How long can one of these puppies last, before something catastrophic >> happens, like the engine dies for good or the suspension collapses for >> good? > > If you drive it regularly, somewhere around 120K miles you'll find that > a bunch of things come up all at once to make you wonder if it's time to > get rid of it. > > But you spend the $2000 or so to get them all straightened out, and go > for another 120K miles. yup. |
Re: How long can a Civic last?
In article <elmop-E7B757.18472818012010@news.eternal-september.org>,
elmop@nastydesigns.com says... > In article <8nq9l5ppv991hqnic2akh8vriseruk185b@4ax.com>, > Dick G <biteme@dick.com> wrote: > > > To the OP, Honda engines are a > > remarkable piece of work. > > correction: Honda four-bangers are a remarkable piece of work. Jewels, > actually. > > The sixes...eh. A local dealer has this Accord on display in their showroom: http://www.flickr.com/photos/2536233...21952/sizes/o/ which should lay to rest any doubts about the longevity of Accord fours with 5-speeds. I had to wonder just what the owner did for a living to accumulate that kind of mileage in only ten years. Anyone know what the highest-mileage Honda on record is? Dave |
Re: How long can a Civic last?
On 01/18/2010 07:58 PM, Dave Garrett wrote:
> In article<elmop-E7B757.18472818012010@news.eternal-september.org>, > elmop@nastydesigns.com says... >> In article<8nq9l5ppv991hqnic2akh8vriseruk185b@4ax.com >, >> Dick G<biteme@dick.com> wrote: >> >>> To the OP, Honda engines are a >>> remarkable piece of work. >> >> correction: Honda four-bangers are a remarkable piece of work. Jewels, >> actually. >> >> The sixes...eh. > > A local dealer has this Accord on display in their showroom: > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/2536233...21952/sizes/o/ that's awesome! > > which should lay to rest any doubts about the longevity of Accord fours > with 5-speeds. I had to wonder just what the owner did for a living to > accumulate that kind of mileage in only ten years. > > Anyone know what the highest-mileage Honda on record is? > > Dave i think there's a million mile accord out there. it was mentioned here a while back - google will clarify. |
Re: How long can a Civic last?
On 01/18/2010 08:29 PM, jim beam wrote:
> On 01/18/2010 07:58 PM, Dave Garrett wrote: >> In article<elmop-E7B757.18472818012010@news.eternal-september.org>, >> elmop@nastydesigns.com says... >>> In article<8nq9l5ppv991hqnic2akh8vriseruk185b@4ax.com >, >>> Dick G<biteme@dick.com> wrote: >>> >>>> To the OP, Honda engines are a >>>> remarkable piece of work. >>> >>> correction: Honda four-bangers are a remarkable piece of work. Jewels, >>> actually. >>> >>> The sixes...eh. >> >> A local dealer has this Accord on display in their showroom: >> >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/2536233...21952/sizes/o/ > > that's awesome! > > >> >> which should lay to rest any doubts about the longevity of Accord fours >> with 5-speeds. I had to wonder just what the owner did for a living to >> accumulate that kind of mileage in only ten years. >> >> Anyone know what the highest-mileage Honda on record is? >> >> Dave > > i think there's a million mile accord out there. it was mentioned here a > while back - google will clarify. http://www.autospies.com/news/Is-Thi...e-Honda-21202/ |
Re: How long can a Civic last?
In article <MPG.25bee9e0fc187bd998a2ba@208.90.168.18>,
Dave Garrett <dave@compassnet.com> wrote: > A local dealer has this Accord on display in their showroom: > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/2536233...21952/sizes/o/ > > which should lay to rest any doubts about the longevity of Accord fours > with 5-speeds. A four cylinder Honda with manual transmission is an absolute jewel of a drivetrain. Bulletproof, smooth to the end, cheap to run. |
Re: How long can a Civic last?
Steven L. wrote:
> In 1995, I bought a brand-new 1995 Honda Civic. > I still own it. > I've got 88,000 miles on it. > And it's still running great. > > How long can one of these puppies last, before something catastrophic > happens, like the engine dies for good or the suspension collapses for > good? > > > -- > -- > Steven L. > sdlitvin@earthlinkNOSPAM.net > Remove the "NOSPAM" before sending to this email address. > > I bought a 1986 Civic Si new, and sold it 23 years and 150k miles later with a few issues (rainwater leak and resultant frame rust, dead A/C), but a sound drivetrain. That car was amazingly fast for 91HP. |
Re: How long can a Civic last?
Steven L. wrote:
> In 1995, I bought a brand-new 1995 Honda Civic. > I still own it. > I've got 88,000 miles on it. > And it's still running great. > > How long can one of these puppies last, before something catastrophic > happens, like the engine dies for good or the suspension collapses for > good? If you change the oil every 5000~8000+ miles (use a decent filter), the transmission fluid once a year, and the timing belt per schedule, the engine will never 'die.' At 15 years, your chassis bushings just may be starting to deteriorate. Replacing them is a bit of a PITA. Some are user replaceable, but you'll likely need a shop's assistance to press out the others. Check suspension ball joints for torn dust boots and possible wear. (Neglected ball joints are the ONE thing that will literally cause the wheels to fall off!) Check the steering tie rod bellows - they will be wanting to tear before too long. And allowing dirt, etc. into the mechanism will cause mayhem. Replacing them is an easy DIY job. Check all the small water hoses that run around the intake area and heater core. They tend to be neglected and are prone to unanticipated blow outs. As mentioned, drive axles will eventually get tired, but with only 88K, you probably have another 5~10 years to find replacements! DO inspect the boots every so often. I think Tegger's site has a good tutorial - basically, you crank the steering wheel, jack one wheel up, and spin the wheel. (With the car in neutral, be sure you've blocked the rear wheels, etc!) Look for nascent cracks lurking deep in the boot's folds. If caught early - before the grease is lost and dirt enters, damage can be avoided and new boots installed. If the axles are worn, Honda sells new or factory-refurb units. 'Raxles' are one of the few aftermarket brands I'd recommend. They cost more but are worth it. AC O-rings are getting old and will eventually leak. Don't be surprised if the system stops working before too long. Big $ and/or major headache to replace them. Motor mounts are likely OK, but may need to be replaced sometime this decade. Lube the window track with silicone spray every year or so to reduce load/wear/tear on the power actuator. Other than that, put gas in and go! Post again when you reach 200K. :) |
Re: How long can a Civic last?
Dave Garrett <dave@compassnet.com> wrote in
news:MPG.25bee9e0fc187bd998a2ba@208.90.168.18: > In article <elmop-E7B757.18472818012010@news.eternal-september.org>, > elmop@nastydesigns.com says... >> In article <8nq9l5ppv991hqnic2akh8vriseruk185b@4ax.com>, >> Dick G <biteme@dick.com> wrote: >> >> > To the OP, Honda engines are a >> > remarkable piece of work. >> >> correction: Honda four-bangers are a remarkable piece of work. >> Jewels, actually. >> >> The sixes...eh. > > A local dealer has this Accord on display in their showroom: > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/2536233...21952/sizes/o/ > > which should lay to rest any doubts about the longevity of Accord > fours with 5-speeds. I had to wonder just what the owner did for a > living to accumulate that kind of mileage in only ten years. I can guess as to the TYPE of job he might have had: It would have involved very long periods of steady-state highway driving, possibly all day long. The fact of his original clutch is a giveaway as to the driving environment. There would have been no use of starter, shifter or clutch for very long mileage intervals. The throttle would have spent most of its time only slightly open, resulting in very light piston-ring loading. The engine would have spent virtually no time in a "cold startup" condition. And this driving was done in a place that did not have Northeastern-type winters, which are certain death to all cars. There are numerous cases of vehicles of just about all makes completing extreme distances under such conditions. > > Anyone know what the highest-mileage Honda on record is? > Good question! I know the Toyota museum in CA has a 999,999 mile Toyota. -- Tegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ |
Re: How long can a Civic last?
"Steven L." <sdlitvin@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:9LWdnUP7o-1xT8nWnZ2dnUVZ_hCdnZ2d@earthlink.com... > In 1995, I bought a brand-new 1995 Honda Civic. > I still own it. > I've got 88,000 miles on it. > And it's still running great. > > How long can one of these puppies last, before something > catastrophic happens, like the engine dies for good or the > suspension collapses for good? This is a very difficult question to answer. Where you are, how you drive, how you maintain the car, and your tolerance for deterioration all figure into how long you are willing to keep the car. My sister recently traded her 1998 Civic for a new car (the Civic was 11 years old with around 160k miles). The car ran OK, but had lots of cosmetic issues (paint faded, paint falling off the bumpers, faded crumbling interior plastic, etc.). It had a few mechanical problems (moderate oil consumption, noisy exhaust, annoying vibrations, etc.). To her the car was tolerable but she was ready for something "nicer" and less prone to mechanical problems (i.e., a new Toyota RAV4). I wouldn't have wanted to drive the Civic to the junk yard (in my mind it was a horrible POS - far worse than mny 14 year old F150 with similar mileage). I drove it to work one day to show it to a co-worker who was interested in buying it. When I got it back to her home, I told her I would never drive it again - it was horrid!. But, when we listed it on Caigslist she had to fight off people who want to buy it. It sold in a day. And the buyer seemed delighted. I suppose it is out there somewhere chugging along with a driver who is just happy it still moves (and the AC still works). Back to your original question - given a mild climate, non-abusive driving, reasonable maintenace, and a moderate tolerance for repair costs, cosmetic appearance, and discomfort, I would asusme a Civice could last 25 years or more - probably far longer than you will be satisfied with it. 200,000 miles with only moderate repairs should not be a problem. If you maintain your current driving pattern, I'd say you could still be driving the Civic in 2020 barring government intervention. Ed |
Re: How long can a Civic last?
In article <hj4k1p$pa7$1@news.eternal-september.org>,
"C. E. White" <cewhite3@mindspring.com> wrote: > I > wouldn't have wanted to drive the Civic to the junk yard (in my mind > it was a horrible POS - far worse than mny 14 year old F150 with > similar mileage). I drove it to work one day to show it to a co-worker > who was interested in buying it. When I got it back to her home, I > told her I would never drive it again - it was horrid!. But, when we > listed it on Caigslist she had to fight off people who want to buy it. And yet no one wants to buy your F-150. Imagine that. |
Re: How long can a Civic last?
"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message news:elmop-01BD04.11225619012010@news.eternal-september.org... > In article <hj4k1p$pa7$1@news.eternal-september.org>, > "C. E. White" <cewhite3@mindspring.com> wrote: > >> I >> wouldn't have wanted to drive the Civic to the junk yard (in my >> mind >> it was a horrible POS - far worse than mny 14 year old F150 with >> similar mileage). I drove it to work one day to show it to a >> co-worker >> who was interested in buying it. When I got it back to her home, I >> told her I would never drive it again - it was horrid!. But, when >> we >> listed it on Caigslist she had to fight off people who want to buy >> it. > > And yet no one wants to buy your F-150. Why would you think that? I wasn't planning to sell the F150, but finally a local guy looking for a truck made me an offer I couldn't refuse. The guy uses it in his job reading water meters. It was / is a terrific vehicle. It cost only a little more than the Civic when new, needed fewer repairs while I owned it and held up much better. Except for the difference in fuel economy, there was no doubt which was the superior vehcile. Although the F150 was 5 years older, it was in far better condition despite having lived a much harsher life (it was a farm truck). Heck it even rode better. But I seriously doubt anyone looking for a Civic would want an F150 or vis-a-versa. Ed |
Re: How long can a Civic last?
Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article <hj4k1p$pa7$1@news.eternal-september.org>, > "C. E. White" <cewhite3@mindspring.com> wrote: > >> I >> wouldn't have wanted to drive the Civic to the junk yard (in my mind >> it was a horrible POS - far worse than mny 14 year old F150 with >> similar mileage). I drove it to work one day to show it to a co-worker >> who was interested in buying it. When I got it back to her home, I >> told her I would never drive it again - it was horrid!. But, when we >> listed it on Caigslist she had to fight off people who want to buy it. > > And yet no one wants to buy your F-150. > > Imagine that. Don't be so sure. Decent pickups sell pretty well. I have a 93 Ranger that people knock on the door asking if I want to sell, just seeing it parked in the driveway. |
Re: How long can a Civic last?
On Mon, 18 Jan 2010 18:46:49 -0500, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
<elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote: >If you drive it regularly, somewhere around 120K miles you'll find that >a bunch of things come up all at once to make you wonder if it's time to >get rid of it. > >But you spend the $2000 or so to get them all straightened out, and go >for another 120K miles. I got to that point on my old 1987 Accord, started nibbling away at the stuff, decided the old girl was underpowered for the modern world and traded it in on the new model. Might get to that point on fewer miles with more years, all the rubber goods in the suspension, hoses and seals tend to age by time as well as miles. Actually, the dark grey paint was still doing fine! J. |
Re: How long can a Civic last?
"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message news:elmop-01BD04.11225619012010@news.eternal-september.org... > In article <hj4k1p$pa7$1@news.eternal-september.org>, > "C. E. White" <cewhite3@mindspring.com> wrote: > >> I >> wouldn't have wanted to drive the Civic to the junk yard (in my mind >> it was a horrible POS - far worse than mny 14 year old F150 with >> similar mileage). I drove it to work one day to show it to a co-worker >> who was interested in buying it. When I got it back to her home, I >> told her I would never drive it again - it was horrid!. But, when we >> listed it on Caigslist she had to fight off people who want to buy it. > > And yet no one wants to buy your F-150. > > Imagine that. Probably because it wasn't up for sale... Imagine that!!!!!!!!!!!!! DaveD |
Re: How long can a Civic last?
"C. E. White" <cewhite3@mindspring.com> wrote in message news:hj4ov7$6ca$1@news.eternal-september.org... > > "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message > news:elmop-01BD04.11225619012010@news.eternal-september.org... >> In article <hj4k1p$pa7$1@news.eternal-september.org>, >> "C. E. White" <cewhite3@mindspring.com> wrote: >> >>> I >>> wouldn't have wanted to drive the Civic to the junk yard (in my mind >>> it was a horrible POS - far worse than mny 14 year old F150 with >>> similar mileage). I drove it to work one day to show it to a co-worker >>> who was interested in buying it. When I got it back to her home, I >>> told her I would never drive it again - it was horrid!. But, when we >>> listed it on Caigslist she had to fight off people who want to buy it. >> >> And yet no one wants to buy your F-150. > > Why would you think that? I wasn't planning to sell the F150, but finally > a local guy looking for a truck made me an offer I couldn't refuse. The > guy uses it in his job reading water meters. It was / is a terrific > vehicle. It cost only a little more than the Civic when new, needed fewer > repairs while I owned it and held up much better. Except for the > difference in fuel economy, there was no doubt which was the superior > vehcile. Although the F150 was 5 years older, it was in far better > condition despite having lived a much harsher life (it was a farm truck). > Heck it even rode better. But I seriously doubt anyone looking for a Civic > would want an F150 or vis-a-versa. > > Ed Ed, There are several in this group, as you well know, who can't get their little minds around the fact that there exist vehicles that are just as good as a Honda and they never pass up a chance to make snide, mundane comments just to see themselves in print. Sigh!!!! I have an 82 F250 with a 300 I6 that has well over 200k miles (not kilometers) and has had routine upkeep maintenance done to it and it still runs great. My 86 Honda Civic also has over 200k miles with only the routine upkeep maintenance and runs great. Does that give anyone a clue???? Upkeep maintenance is the key here... That is the point of commonality. You do the maintenance and the vehicle lasts, and lasts, and lasts. DaveD > > |
Re: How long can a Civic last?
On 01/19/2010 11:51 PM, Dave D wrote:
> "C. E. White"<cewhite3@mindspring.com> wrote in message > news:hj4ov7$6ca$1@news.eternal-september.org... >> >> "Elmo P. Shagnasty"<elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message >> news:elmop-01BD04.11225619012010@news.eternal-september.org... >>> In article<hj4k1p$pa7$1@news.eternal-september.org>, >>> "C. E. White"<cewhite3@mindspring.com> wrote: >>> >>>> I >>>> wouldn't have wanted to drive the Civic to the junk yard (in my mind >>>> it was a horrible POS - far worse than mny 14 year old F150 with >>>> similar mileage). I drove it to work one day to show it to a co-worker >>>> who was interested in buying it. When I got it back to her home, I >>>> told her I would never drive it again - it was horrid!. But, when we >>>> listed it on Caigslist she had to fight off people who want to buy it. >>> >>> And yet no one wants to buy your F-150. >> >> Why would you think that? I wasn't planning to sell the F150, but finally >> a local guy looking for a truck made me an offer I couldn't refuse. The >> guy uses it in his job reading water meters. It was / is a terrific >> vehicle. It cost only a little more than the Civic when new, needed fewer >> repairs while I owned it and held up much better. Except for the >> difference in fuel economy, there was no doubt which was the superior >> vehcile. Although the F150 was 5 years older, it was in far better >> condition despite having lived a much harsher life (it was a farm truck). >> Heck it even rode better. But I seriously doubt anyone looking for a Civic >> would want an F150 or vis-a-versa. >> >> Ed > > Ed, > There are several in this group, as you well know, who can't get their > little minds around the fact that there exist vehicles that are just as good > as a Honda and they never pass up a chance to make snide, mundane comments > just to see themselves in print. Sigh!!!! I have an 82 F250 with a 300 I6 > that has well over 200k miles (not kilometers) and has had routine upkeep > maintenance done to it and it still runs great. My 86 Honda Civic also has > over 200k miles with only the routine upkeep maintenance and runs great. > Does that give anyone a clue???? Upkeep maintenance is the key here... That > is the point of commonality. You do the maintenance and the vehicle lasts, > and lasts, and lasts. > > DaveD actually, if you strip a frod down, their componentry is all about as cheap as the industry gets. if yours lasted 200k, it's because it's been lightly loaded, not because it's made of good materials or well designed. cast cranks, sintered connecting rods, nowhere near as good as the forgings in a honda. |
Re: How long can a Civic last?
"jim beam" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message news:Y8WdncQGrJ1blsrWnZ2dnUVZ_rednZ2d@speakeasy.ne t... > actually, if you strip a frod down, their componentry is all about > as cheap as the industry gets. if yours lasted 200k, it's because > it's been lightly loaded, not because it's made of good materials or > well designed. cast cranks, sintered connecting rods, nowhere near > as good as the forgings in a honda. When was the last time you wore an engine out? Taxi cabs routine put well over 200,000 miles on the Ford engines with cast cranks and sintered metal connecting rods. In my opinion you are confusing good engineering with buzz word engineering. I like Honda's, they are decent well made cars, but using a forging where it has no practical value is buzz word engineering. The Japanese are very dedicated to this. My Sister has owned two Hondas. She was happy with both of them. Both suffered cosmetically (rust, fading paint, crummy plastic) but neither quit running or required excessive repairs while she owned them. She is very easy on cars (and I mean very easy) from an operational standpoint. Over the same time periods she owned Hondas, other members of my family owned Fords. In general the Fords were treated much rougher, particualrly the trucks (we have a farm). The Fords didn't need any more repairs than the Hondas, held up much bettter cosmetically and cost less. Of course they didn't have near the credibility with "cool" people that the Hondas have, but no one in my family really cares what "cool" people like. If you like a lot of buzz words, and don't mind paying extra so you can throw them out to impress your friends, then I suppose Honda's are a great choice. But I don't believe you are getting a better vehicle just becasue the ad copy sounds cool. If a Honda suits you needs, by all means buy one. They are decent cars and generally get good gas mielage. But you are fooling yourself if you think Hondas are made of especially good materials - I've seen the rust holes, oil leaks, faded paint, and crumbling plastic that says it ain't so. Ed |
Re: How long can a Civic last?
"Dick G" <biteme@dick.com> wrote in message
news:8nq9l5ppv991hqnic2akh8vriseruk185b@4ax.com: > On Mon, 18 Jan 2010 22:59:02 +0000 (UTC), Tegger <invalid@invalid.inv> > wrote: > > >"Steven L." <sdlitvin@earthlink.net> wrote in news:9LWdnUP7o- > >1xT8nWnZ2dnUVZ_hCdnZ2d@earthlink.com: > > > >> In 1995, I bought a brand-new 1995 Honda Civic. > >> I still own it. > >> I've got 88,000 miles on it. > >> And it's still running great. > >> > >> How long can one of these puppies last, before something catastrophic > >> happens, like the engine dies for good or the suspension collapses for > >> good? > >> > >> > > > > > > > >Dump it quick. It won't last. > > > >My '91 Integra, which is Civic-based, is only 19 years old and has a paltry > >336,000 miles on it. > > > >I'm so disappointed that I've decided never to buy another brand-new '91 > >Integra ever again. > Good plan. We had a '92 Civic and ran it up to 350,000. Sold it in > 2000 and car is still on the road. To the OP, Honda engines are a > remarkable piece of work. Regular oil changes, timing belt and a few > other steps it will last much longer than anticipated. Drop us a line > when you hit 200k That's a problem. See, with the cars I owned in the past, I always "ran the car into the ground"--kept driving it till it fell apart, and then bought a new one. But these Honda Civics just refuse to fall apart at the right time (barring a major accident or something). -- -- Steven L. sdlitvin@earthlinkNOSPAM.net Remove the "NOSPAM" before sending to this email address. |
Re: How long can a Civic last?
On 01/20/2010 07:31 AM, C. E. White wrote:
> "jim beam"<me@privacy.net> wrote in message > news:Y8WdncQGrJ1blsrWnZ2dnUVZ_rednZ2d@speakeasy.ne t... > >> actually, if you strip a frod down, their componentry is all about >> as cheap as the industry gets. if yours lasted 200k, it's because >> it's been lightly loaded, not because it's made of good materials or >> well designed. cast cranks, sintered connecting rods, nowhere near >> as good as the forgings in a honda. > > When was the last time you wore an engine out? Taxi cabs routine put > well over 200,000 miles on the Ford engines with cast cranks and > sintered metal connecting rods. In my opinion you are confusing good > engineering with buzz word engineering. I like Honda's, they are > decent well made cars, but using a forging where it has no practical > value is buzz word engineering. The Japanese are very dedicated to > this. the difference is this - that frod taxi engine is utterly worn out at 200k. pretty crappy for a honking great v8 that's running at maybe 10% of rated output on average and with very little cold start cycling. for a honda engine, provided it's not maintained by a retard, 200k is nowhere near end of life. when i had the head off the burned valve motor a few weeks ago, there was zero ring lip on the cylinder wall after 212k miles. i've never seen that on a frod. or any other domestic come to that. now, as to the difference between cast, sintered and forged, these are not "buzzwords". for fatigue, i.e. if you want maximum performance from the lightest weight, there is nothing to beat a forging. it is denser, more homogeneous, and has the added benefit of aligning grain structure with the loading axes. castings and sinterings cannot do that. because they less dense, they are less fatigue resistant weight for weight, and bearing surfaces cannot be as smooth or hard. bottom line, they work, and if not run hard, they can last a fair time, but under heavy load or for longest durability, castings cannot match forgings. one more thing: in order to keep loading to a level where fatigue is not an issue on castings, you have to make everything bigger. bigger is heavier. heavier means lower fuel efficiency. again, forgings are the way to go. > > My Sister has owned two Hondas. She was happy with both of them. Both > suffered cosmetically (rust, fading paint, crummy plastic) but neither > quit running or required excessive repairs while she owned them. She > is very easy on cars (and I mean very easy) from an operational > standpoint. Over the same time periods she owned Hondas, other members > of my family owned Fords. In general the Fords were treated much > rougher, particualrly the trucks (we have a farm). The Fords didn't > need any more repairs than the Hondas, held up much bettter > cosmetically and cost less. Of course they didn't have near the > credibility with "cool" people that the Hondas have, but no one in my > family really cares what "cool" people like. If you like a lot of buzz > words, and don't mind paying extra so you can throw them out to > impress your friends, then I suppose Honda's are a great choice. But I > don't believe you are getting a better vehicle just becasue the ad > copy sounds cool. If a Honda suits you needs, by all means buy one. > They are decent cars and generally get good gas mielage. But you are > fooling yourself if you think Hondas are made of especially good > materials - I've seen the rust holes, oil leaks, faded paint, and > crumbling plastic that says it ain't so. rust is chemical, not mechanical. sure, i don't like honda rust either, but for the mechanicals, the hondas are better than a frod any way you slice it. you can run a honda engine at 50% of rated output for hundreds of thousands of miles. if you ran a frod at 50%, the thing would be dead in fraction of the time. materials quality on frods are abysmal. frod design sucks too - they are utterly relentless in cutting every corner possible. example: they save about 5 cents per vehicle by using taper spark plug seats instead of gasketed seats. utterly ridiculous and frighteningly unreliable. |
Re: How long can a Civic last?
"jim beam" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message news:Y8WdncQGrJ1blsrWnZ2dnUVZ_rednZ2d@speakeasy.ne t... > On 01/19/2010 11:51 PM, Dave D wrote: ///snipped/// > actually, if you strip a frod down, their componentry is all about as > cheap as the industry gets. if yours lasted 200k, it's because it's been > lightly loaded, not because it's made of good materials or well designed. > cast cranks, sintered connecting rods, nowhere near as good as the > forgings in a honda. Actually, sir, I was NOT addressing you. Reason? I would expect an imbecilic response for which you are infamous. However, being as you stuck you big nose in .... How the hell would you know, or have the slightest inkling, how my truck was used. For you to state that it lasted 200k for its light use is pure, unadulterated BullCrap...Of course, you are well known for that also. BTW - you are totally wrong on all counts....As usual!!!!!! DaveD |
Re: How long can a Civic last?
"C. E. White" <cewhite3@mindspring.com> wrote in message news:hj783b$tiq$1@news.eternal-september.org... > > "jim beam" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message > news:Y8WdncQGrJ1blsrWnZ2dnUVZ_rednZ2d@speakeasy.ne t... > >> actually, if you strip a frod down, their componentry is all about as >> cheap as the industry gets. if yours lasted 200k, it's because it's been >> lightly loaded, not because it's made of good materials or well designed. >> cast cranks, sintered connecting rods, nowhere near as good as the >> forgings in a honda. > > When was the last time you wore an engine out? Taxi cabs routine put well > over 200,000 miles on the Ford engines with cast cranks and sintered metal > connecting rods. In my opinion you are confusing good engineering with > buzz word engineering. I like Honda's, they are decent well made cars, but > using a forging where it has no practical value is buzz word engineering. > The Japanese are very dedicated to this. > > My Sister has owned two Hondas. She was happy with both of them. Both > suffered cosmetically (rust, fading paint, crummy plastic) but neither > quit running or required excessive repairs while she owned them. She is > very easy on cars (and I mean very easy) from an operational standpoint. > Over the same time periods she owned Hondas, other members of my family > owned Fords. In general the Fords were treated much rougher, particualrly > the trucks (we have a farm). The Fords didn't need any more repairs than > the Hondas, held up much bettter cosmetically and cost less. Of course > they didn't have near the credibility with "cool" people that the Hondas > have, but no one in my family really cares what "cool" people like. If you > like a lot of buzz words, and don't mind paying extra so you can throw > them out to impress your friends, then I suppose Honda's are a great > choice. But I don't believe you are getting a better vehicle just becasue > the ad copy sounds cool. If a Honda suits you needs, by all means buy one. > They are decent cars and generally get good gas mielage. But you are > fooling yourself if you think Hondas are made of especially good > materials - I've seen the rust holes, oil leaks, faded paint, and > crumbling plastic that says it ain't so. > > Ed Amen!!!! DaveD > |
Re: How long can a Civic last?
On 01/20/2010 11:12 PM, Dave D wrote:
> "jim beam"<me@privacy.net> wrote in message > news:Y8WdncQGrJ1blsrWnZ2dnUVZ_rednZ2d@speakeasy.ne t... >> On 01/19/2010 11:51 PM, Dave D wrote: > ///snipped/// >> actually, if you strip a frod down, their componentry is all about as >> cheap as the industry gets. if yours lasted 200k, it's because it's been >> lightly loaded, not because it's made of good materials or well designed. >> cast cranks, sintered connecting rods, nowhere near as good as the >> forgings in a honda. > > Actually, sir, I was NOT addressing you. Reason? I would expect an imbecilic > response for which you are infamous. However, being as you stuck you big > nose in .... How the hell would you know, or have the slightest inkling, how > my truck was used. For you to state that it lasted 200k for its light use is > pure, unadulterated BullCrap...Of course, you are well known for that also. > BTW - you are totally wrong on all counts....As usual!!!!!! > > DaveD > > done much strip-down and testing then "dave"? i thought not. |
Re: How long can a Civic last?
"jim beam" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message news:EIadnb5DHcIXQsrWnZ2dnUVZ_jqdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t... > On 01/20/2010 07:31 AM, C. E. White wrote: >> "jim beam"<me@privacy.net> wrote in message >> news:Y8WdncQGrJ1blsrWnZ2dnUVZ_rednZ2d@speakeasy.ne t... >> >>> actually, if you strip a frod down, their componentry is all about >>> as cheap as the industry gets. if yours lasted 200k, it's because >>> it's been lightly loaded, not because it's made of good materials >>> or >>> well designed. cast cranks, sintered connecting rods, nowhere >>> near >>> as good as the forgings in a honda. >> >> When was the last time you wore an engine out? Taxi cabs routine >> put >> well over 200,000 miles on the Ford engines with cast cranks and >> sintered metal connecting rods. In my opinion you are confusing >> good >> engineering with buzz word engineering. I like Honda's, they are >> decent well made cars, but using a forging where it has no >> practical >> value is buzz word engineering. The Japanese are very dedicated to >> this. > > the difference is this - that frod taxi engine is utterly worn out > at 200k. And you know this becasue? My persoanl experience is that my Sister's Honda was using significant amounts of oil after 60k miles, my 5.4L V8 never used any oil during the 150,000 miles I owned it. At 150k miles the fuel economy was unchanged, it ran just like it did when new. I have no reason to believe it isn't still out there somewhere running just fine. I belong to a Email group for Ford Expeditions. Numerous members have over 300,000 miles on their engines. No one has reported any sort of failure that could be attributed to poor materials. > pretty crappy for a honking great v8 that's running at maybe 10% of > rated output on average and with very little cold start cycling. > for a honda engine, provided it's not maintained by a retard, 200k > is nowhere near end of life. when i had the head off the burned > valve motor a few weeks ago, there was zero ring lip on the cylinder > wall after 212k miles. i've never seen that on a frod. or any > other domestic come to that. To be honest, I hear stories like this all the time from Toyota and Honda owners. My response is, if the engiens are so great, why do you have the heads off? I've never had to take the head off one of my Fords. We did have the heads off my SO's Chrysler minivan (burned valve) and her cyclinder walls were just as perfect as you are claiming for a Honda (it had around 150k miles). I am also curious how this plays into your complains about Ford using cast cranks and sintered rods...neither of these is related to cylinder bore wear. > now, as to the difference between cast, sintered and forged, these > are not "buzzwords". for fatigue, i.e. if you want maximum > performance from the lightest weight, there is nothing to beat a > forging. it is denser, more homogeneous, and has the added benefit > of aligning grain structure with the loading axes. None of this is necessarily true. Cast cranks have been around for decades. The process is well know and there are advantages to using cast cranks over forgings including cost. While forging may have a theoretical advantage in terms of fatique life, this is irrelevant for most passenger cars. When was the last time you heard of crank failing due to fatique in a street vehicle? Ditto for rods. On the other hand cast cranks are often lighter that forged cranks, can have superior vibration damping, more complex geometry, etc. Engineers who design for maximum buzz often overlook the best solution. People who buy based on buzz words often spend too much. Oh, and Honda has used cast cranks at times....imagine that. > castings and sinterings cannot do that. because they less dense, > they are less fatigue resistant weight for weight, and bearing > surfaces cannot be as smooth or hard. None of this is necessarily true. You can have lousy forged cranks and great cast cranks. > bottom line, they work, and if not run hard, they can last a fair > time, but under heavy load or for longest durability, castings > cannot match forgings. Again, when was the last time you actually saw an engine fail due to a broken crank or rod. I never have, altough my Father once had a car that threw a rod - 65 years ago. > one more thing: in order to keep loading to a level where fatigue is > not an issue on castings, you have to make everything bigger. > bigger is heavier. heavier means lower fuel efficiency. again, > forgings are the way to go. One of the reason given for Ford using sintered rods is that they are lighter and stronger than forged rods. I cannot prove this is true. I doubt you could prove it isn't. There is a lot of advertising copy on the subject... http://www.mpif.org/designcenter/Conrod.pdf http://www.metaldyne.com/metaldyne/s...ectingRod.aspx http://www.superchevy.com/technical/...rds/index.html One more thing....Honda is using sintered metal rods too.... http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-87375938.html But I suppose Honda is using super special sintered steel rods amde from unubtanium and kissed by the gods..... Ed |
Re: How long can a Civic last?
"C. E. White" <cewhite3@mindspring.com> wrote in
news:hjcb46$f2i$1@news.eternal-september.org: > People who buy based on buzz words often spend too much. Or buy inferior equipment. Such as rear disc brakes on a road-going FWD passenger vehicle. > Oh, and Honda has used cast cranks at times....imagine that. I do believe my Honda has a cast crank. > > Again, when was the last time you actually saw an engine fail due to a > broken crank or rod. I never have, altough my Father once had a car > that threw a rod - 65 years ago. I've seen (Honda) cast camshafts broken in half, but that was attributed to oil starvation. A girl I used to work with had a '70s Camaro that threw a rod. She admitted (years later, out of earshot of her father) to heavily overrevving it. -- Tegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ |
Re: How long can a Civic last?
Thus spake "Steven L." <sdlitvin@earthlink.net> :
>In 1995, I bought a brand-new 1995 Honda Civic. >I still own it. >I've got 88,000 miles on it. >And it's still running great. > >How long can one of these puppies last, before something catastrophic >happens, like the engine dies for good or the suspension collapses for >good? I sold my 96 in 08, mostly because I wanted a Fit. ~ 90K on it, the only major service was the timing belt, mostly because if the sucker fails, catasrophic is the corredt word, and the "recommended" is 90K or 7 years. That's not one of those "oh, I think it can go another year, it doesn't look bad after 12 years". Saw the car about 3 weeks ago. Still looks and runs great. One mod to it that had nothing to do with any of your concerns. I put some Tokico adjustable struts on it. But I also had some RS1s that would go on the car twice a month. "... never raced. Slicks also available" > > >-- -- - dillon I am not invalid I love my country, It's my government I fear. Hey, turnabout's fair play. |
Re: How long can a Civic last?
On 01/22/2010 06:22 AM, Tegger wrote:
> "C. E. White"<cewhite3@mindspring.com> wrote in > news:hjcb46$f2i$1@news.eternal-september.org: > >> People who buy based on buzz words often spend too much. > > > > Or buy inferior equipment. Such as rear disc brakes on a road-going FWD > passenger vehicle. disks are more linear. in that respect, they work better. they may not be as practical for a low usage environment needing non-hydraulic actuation, but their mechanical function is better. that's why we're now seeing the [sensible] transition to the disk/drum solution. a combined disk/drum uses the drum element for the non-hydraulics, and disk for the normal service use. > > > >> Oh, and Honda has used cast cranks at times....imagine that. > > > > I do believe my Honda has a cast crank. nope, it's forged. http://www.team-integra.net/forum/di...g+Common+Topic > > > >> >> Again, when was the last time you actually saw an engine fail due to a >> broken crank or rod. I never have, altough my Father once had a car >> that threw a rod - 65 years ago. > > > > I've seen (Honda) cast camshafts broken in half, but that was attributed to > oil starvation. they usually break because of fatigue - if wrecked bearings were witnessed, they're more likely to be the symptoms /of/ the breakage, not to have /caused/ the breakage. > > A girl I used to work with had a '70s Camaro that threw a rod. She admitted > (years later, out of earshot of her father) to heavily overrevving it. > > > |
Re: How long can a Civic last?
On 01/22/2010 05:53 AM, C. E. White wrote:
> "jim beam"<me@privacy.net> wrote in message > news:EIadnb5DHcIXQsrWnZ2dnUVZ_jqdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t... >> On 01/20/2010 07:31 AM, C. E. White wrote: >>> "jim beam"<me@privacy.net> wrote in message >>> news:Y8WdncQGrJ1blsrWnZ2dnUVZ_rednZ2d@speakeasy.ne t... >>> >>>> actually, if you strip a frod down, their componentry is all about >>>> as cheap as the industry gets. if yours lasted 200k, it's because >>>> it's been lightly loaded, not because it's made of good materials >>>> or >>>> well designed. cast cranks, sintered connecting rods, nowhere >>>> near >>>> as good as the forgings in a honda. >>> >>> When was the last time you wore an engine out? Taxi cabs routine >>> put >>> well over 200,000 miles on the Ford engines with cast cranks and >>> sintered metal connecting rods. In my opinion you are confusing >>> good >>> engineering with buzz word engineering. I like Honda's, they are >>> decent well made cars, but using a forging where it has no >>> practical >>> value is buzz word engineering. The Japanese are very dedicated to >>> this. >> >> the difference is this - that frod taxi engine is utterly worn out >> at 200k. > > And you know this becasue? because i've worked on these things? > My persoanl experience is that my Sister's > Honda was using significant amounts of oil after 60k miles, "significant amounts"? three thimble-fulls? > my 5.4L V8 > never used any oil during the 150,000 miles I owned it. so you say. my 182k mile honda uses somewhere between 1 - 1.5 quarts every 10k. what's your point? when i had the head gasket off, there was no wear lip, you you can't say it's because my engine was worn. > At 150k miles > the fuel economy was unchanged, it ran just like it did when new. I > have no reason to believe it isn't still out there somewhere running > just fine. I belong to a Email group for Ford Expeditions. Numerous > members have over 300,000 miles on their engines. No one has reported > any sort of failure that could be attributed to poor materials. how many hondas fail because of "poor materials"??? i can /show/ you poor materials in a frod - simply go to a junkyard and look at the garbage with broken cranks, thrown rods, worn cams, etc. > >> pretty crappy for a honking great v8 that's running at maybe 10% of >> rated output on average and with very little cold start cycling. >> for a honda engine, provided it's not maintained by a retard, 200k >> is nowhere near end of life. when i had the head off the burned >> valve motor a few weeks ago, there was zero ring lip on the cylinder >> wall after 212k miles. i've never seen that on a frod. or any >> other domestic come to that. > > To be honest, I hear stories like this all the time from Toyota and > Honda owners. My response is, if the engiens are so great, why do you > have the heads off? one came off because a prior owner had the radiator shrouds removed, and this affects cooling airflow. consequently, i boiled the motor one day in 110+F heading up one of those long fast grades uphill on the way to las vegas. after that, the head started to leak, slowly, and 1 year later, i changed it. another i replaced because of an oil leak. and another because of a burnt valve. none are bullshit failures like you see in frods where the inter-cylinder lands are burned, or the heads have cracked, or the torque-to-yield head bolts have given way. > I've never had to take the head off one of my > Fords. so you've never gotten to see how bad that wear lip is! > We did have the heads off my SO's Chrysler minivan (burned > valve) and her cyclinder walls were just as perfect as you are > claiming for a Honda (it had around 150k miles). I am also curious how > this plays into your complains about Ford using cast cranks and > sintered rods...neither of these is related to cylinder bore wear. cast cranks aren't cylinder bore wear, but they are absolutely the layman's window on materials quality. bores wear when the material is soft. if the bores are wearing, then you know all the other stuff is poor quality too. > >> now, as to the difference between cast, sintered and forged, these >> are not "buzzwords". for fatigue, i.e. if you want maximum >> performance from the lightest weight, there is nothing to beat a >> forging. it is denser, more homogeneous, and has the added benefit >> of aligning grain structure with the loading axes. > > None of this is necessarily true. it is all absolutely true. if you don't want to take my word for it, read stuff like this. http://www.jobshop.com/techinfo/pape...inggrain.shtml http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forging for the wikipedia, you need to go to high res - then you'll see the macro grain structure flow lines that forging imparts. casting doesn't have and cannot create that. > Cast cranks have been around for > decades. The process is well know and there are advantages to using > cast cranks over forgings including cost. for cranks, the /only/ advantage is cost. it is not material quality - for the reasons stated. > While forging may have a > theoretical advantage in terms of fatique life, this is irrelevant for > most passenger cars. When was the last time you heard of crank failing > due to fatique in a street vehicle? Ditto for rods. then you need to go get some experience. go to a junk yard and look at the disassembled motors. then you'll see broken cranks, and you'll understand why this is an important issue from a materials perspective. you should care about the pocketbook perspective too - cast cranks weigh more and thus cost you more gas. > On the other hand > cast cranks are often lighter that forged cranks, that's complete bullshit. fact: for the same fatigue strength, they need to be heavier. castings contain their own fatigue initiation defects - by definition. you have to "over-design" ["over-weight"] to keep fatigue at bay. > can have superior > vibration damping, more complex geometry, etc. gray irons have "superior" vibration damping, but there are many different types of cast irons. the ones used for cranks are "s.g." or "nodular". damping really isn't a feature. > Engineers who design > for maximum buzz often overlook the best solution. "often overlook the best solution"??? you're trying to be humorous, right? > People who buy > based on buzz words often spend too much. who is buying based on buzz words? i bought my honda based on experience. it came with a forged crank because that's the way the honda engineers designed it and it was sold - it's not like it was a dealer option! > Oh, and Honda has used cast > cranks at times....imagine that. "at times"? it's a dealer option??? you need to cite your source for that little nugget. > >> castings and sinterings cannot do that. because they less dense, >> they are less fatigue resistant weight for weight, and bearing >> surfaces cannot be as smooth or hard. > > None of this is necessarily true. You can have lousy forged cranks and > great cast cranks. it's all absolutely true. but i guess your mind is already made up to the contrary - no chance of learning something you didn't know. > >> bottom line, they work, and if not run hard, they can last a fair >> time, but under heavy load or for longest durability, castings >> cannot match forgings. > > Again, when was the last time you actually saw an engine fail due to a > broken crank or rod. I never have, altough my Father once had a car > that threw a rod - 65 years ago. so you've driven a few cars and they haven't failed. well, so have i. but unlike you, i've been involved with failure analysis, and also love to surf junk yards. you'll see broken cranks on a regular basis if you seek out this kind of experience, and then you'll understand what i'm saying better. > >> one more thing: in order to keep loading to a level where fatigue is >> not an issue on castings, you have to make everything bigger. >> bigger is heavier. heavier means lower fuel efficiency. again, >> forgings are the way to go. > > One of the reason given for Ford using sintered rods is that they are > lighter and stronger than forged rods. lighter, yes. stronger, no - that's a fundamental impossibility. > I cannot prove this is true. of course - because it's not! > I > doubt you could prove it isn't. don't doubt - absolutely i can prove it. you can prove it to yourself too if you want. go to a junkyard, get samples of each type, then do fatigue testing. > There is a lot of advertising copy on > the subject... > > http://www.mpif.org/designcenter/Conrod.pdf > http://www.metaldyne.com/metaldyne/s...ectingRod.aspx > http://www.superchevy.com/technical/...rds/index.html > > One more thing....Honda is using sintered metal rods too.... > > http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-87375938.html so? sintering = cheap. honda have been all about cheap in recent years - that's why they swapped to macpherson strut suspension too. that's what happens when you have a company run by bean counters. it still doesn't negate the material property differences. > > But I suppose Honda is using super special sintered steel rods amde > from unubtanium and kissed by the gods..... that's it - mock what you don't know. do you have a pitchfork and burn witches also? |
Re: How long can a Civic last?
Dave Garrett wrote:
> In article <elmop-E7B757.18472818012010@news.eternal-september.org>, > elmop@nastydesigns.com says... >> In article <8nq9l5ppv991hqnic2akh8vriseruk185b@4ax.com>, >> Dick G <biteme@dick.com> wrote: >> >>> To the OP, Honda engines are a >>> remarkable piece of work. >> correction: Honda four-bangers are a remarkable piece of work. Jewels, >> actually. >> >> The sixes...eh. > > A local dealer has this Accord on display in their showroom: > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/2536233...21952/sizes/o/ > > which should lay to rest any doubts about the longevity of Accord fours > with 5-speeds. I had to wonder just what the owner did for a living to > accumulate that kind of mileage in only ten years. > > Anyone know what the highest-mileage Honda on record is? > > Dave > > > > And it is prettier than the 2 body generations that came after it, to boot! (I'm not a fan of big butts, high beltlines, and weirdly shaped C-pillars...) -- aem sends... |
| All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:01 AM. |
© 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands