Re: how many use synth oil?
 

jim beam wrote:
> Dr Nick wrote:
>> how many of your guys out there use synthetic oil in your cars? just
>> curious, I'm thinking of switching to mobil 1 at my next change in my
>> 06 accord.
>>
> technically, i doubt /anyone/ here is using a true synthetic oil. most
> everything sold as "synthetic" here in the us is in fact a group III
> mineral oil, including mobil 1. don't get me wrong, m1 is a fine oil,
> but all this hoopla about "synthetic" is marketing semantics, not
> chemistry. true synthetics are specifically labeled as to what their
> base oil is. if the oil is not so labeled but still called "synthetic",
> it's a group III. the [mis]information you see on the interweb on this
> subject is quite extraordinary in its utter pervasiveness. i guess
> wishful thinking is easily cultivated with a little strategically placed
> bovine excrement.


There is more speculation and misinformation on this subject than one
can ever hope to sort out. No, Mobil-1 isn't using a Group III base
oil. Yes, some other synthetics do. However, the bottom line is that
the Group III vs. Group IV (PAO) base oil debate is pretty much over and
it has been widely demonstrated that extraordinary good motor oils can
be made with either one. Group III synthetics start with crude oil for
the feedstock of the chemical transformation process. Group IV oils
start out life as natural gas. Why some people get working into a
lather about the distinction of starting with natural oil or starting
with natural gas is a bit mysterious to me. That said, Mobil-1 still
uses PAO as the base oil.

I have yet to see any bottle of motor oil from any company which spells
out the base oil and additive chemistry used.

John

Re: how many use synth oil?
 

jim beam wrote:
> Dr Nick wrote:
>> how many of your guys out there use synthetic oil in your cars? just
>> curious, I'm thinking of switching to mobil 1 at my next change in my
>> 06 accord.
>>
> technically, i doubt /anyone/ here is using a true synthetic oil. most
> everything sold as "synthetic" here in the us is in fact a group III
> mineral oil, including mobil 1. don't get me wrong, m1 is a fine oil,
> but all this hoopla about "synthetic" is marketing semantics, not
> chemistry. true synthetics are specifically labeled as to what their
> base oil is. if the oil is not so labeled but still called "synthetic",
> it's a group III. the [mis]information you see on the interweb on this
> subject is quite extraordinary in its utter pervasiveness. i guess
> wishful thinking is easily cultivated with a little strategically placed
> bovine excrement.


There is more speculation and misinformation on this subject than one
can ever hope to sort out. No, Mobil-1 isn't using a Group III base
oil. Yes, some other synthetics do. However, the bottom line is that
the Group III vs. Group IV (PAO) base oil debate is pretty much over and
it has been widely demonstrated that extraordinary good motor oils can
be made with either one. Group III synthetics start with crude oil for
the feedstock of the chemical transformation process. Group IV oils
start out life as natural gas. Why some people get working into a
lather about the distinction of starting with natural oil or starting
with natural gas is a bit mysterious to me. That said, Mobil-1 still
uses PAO as the base oil.

I have yet to see any bottle of motor oil from any company which spells
out the base oil and additive chemistry used.

John

Re: how many use synth oil?
 

John Horner wrote:
> jim beam wrote:
>> Dr Nick wrote:
>>> how many of your guys out there use synthetic oil in your cars? just
>>> curious, I'm thinking of switching to mobil 1 at my next change in my
>>> 06 accord.
>>>
>> technically, i doubt /anyone/ here is using a true synthetic oil.
>> most everything sold as "synthetic" here in the us is in fact a group
>> III mineral oil, including mobil 1. don't get me wrong, m1 is a fine
>> oil, but all this hoopla about "synthetic" is marketing semantics, not
>> chemistry. true synthetics are specifically labeled as to what their
>> base oil is. if the oil is not so labeled but still called
>> "synthetic", it's a group III. the [mis]information you see on the
>> interweb on this subject is quite extraordinary in its utter
>> pervasiveness. i guess wishful thinking is easily cultivated with a
>> little strategically placed bovine excrement.
>
>
> There is more speculation and misinformation on this subject than one
> can ever hope to sort out. No, Mobil-1 isn't using a Group III base
> oil. Yes, some other synthetics do. However, the bottom line is that
> the Group III vs. Group IV (PAO) base oil debate is pretty much over and
> it has been widely demonstrated that extraordinary good motor oils can
> be made with either one. Group III synthetics start with crude oil for
> the feedstock of the chemical transformation process. Group IV oils
> start out life as natural gas. Why some people get working into a
> lather about the distinction of starting with natural oil or starting
> with natural gas is a bit mysterious to me. That said, Mobil-1 still
> uses PAO as the base oil.
>
> I have yet to see any bottle of motor oil from any company which spells
> out the base oil and additive chemistry used.
>
> John
>
no, mobil 1 has only 5% pao. therefore, pao is /not/ the base, it's
simply a [minority] additive.

http://msds.ogden.disa.mil/msds/owa/...imsdsnr=194095

there is indeed more speculation and misinformation on this subject than
can be believed. mobil 1 may have been pao base at some point in
history, but that's not the case today.

Re: how many use synth oil?
 

John Horner wrote:
> jim beam wrote:
>> Dr Nick wrote:
>>> how many of your guys out there use synthetic oil in your cars? just
>>> curious, I'm thinking of switching to mobil 1 at my next change in my
>>> 06 accord.
>>>
>> technically, i doubt /anyone/ here is using a true synthetic oil.
>> most everything sold as "synthetic" here in the us is in fact a group
>> III mineral oil, including mobil 1. don't get me wrong, m1 is a fine
>> oil, but all this hoopla about "synthetic" is marketing semantics, not
>> chemistry. true synthetics are specifically labeled as to what their
>> base oil is. if the oil is not so labeled but still called
>> "synthetic", it's a group III. the [mis]information you see on the
>> interweb on this subject is quite extraordinary in its utter
>> pervasiveness. i guess wishful thinking is easily cultivated with a
>> little strategically placed bovine excrement.
>
>
> There is more speculation and misinformation on this subject than one
> can ever hope to sort out. No, Mobil-1 isn't using a Group III base
> oil. Yes, some other synthetics do. However, the bottom line is that
> the Group III vs. Group IV (PAO) base oil debate is pretty much over and
> it has been widely demonstrated that extraordinary good motor oils can
> be made with either one. Group III synthetics start with crude oil for
> the feedstock of the chemical transformation process. Group IV oils
> start out life as natural gas. Why some people get working into a
> lather about the distinction of starting with natural oil or starting
> with natural gas is a bit mysterious to me. That said, Mobil-1 still
> uses PAO as the base oil.
>
> I have yet to see any bottle of motor oil from any company which spells
> out the base oil and additive chemistry used.
>
> John
>
no, mobil 1 has only 5% pao. therefore, pao is /not/ the base, it's
simply a [minority] additive.

http://msds.ogden.disa.mil/msds/owa/...imsdsnr=194095

there is indeed more speculation and misinformation on this subject than
can be believed. mobil 1 may have been pao base at some point in
history, but that's not the case today.

Re: how many use synth oil?
 

John Horner wrote:
> jim beam wrote:
>> Dr Nick wrote:
>>> how many of your guys out there use synthetic oil in your cars? just
>>> curious, I'm thinking of switching to mobil 1 at my next change in my
>>> 06 accord.
>>>
>> technically, i doubt /anyone/ here is using a true synthetic oil.
>> most everything sold as "synthetic" here in the us is in fact a group
>> III mineral oil, including mobil 1. don't get me wrong, m1 is a fine
>> oil, but all this hoopla about "synthetic" is marketing semantics, not
>> chemistry. true synthetics are specifically labeled as to what their
>> base oil is. if the oil is not so labeled but still called
>> "synthetic", it's a group III. the [mis]information you see on the
>> interweb on this subject is quite extraordinary in its utter
>> pervasiveness. i guess wishful thinking is easily cultivated with a
>> little strategically placed bovine excrement.
>
>
> There is more speculation and misinformation on this subject than one
> can ever hope to sort out. No, Mobil-1 isn't using a Group III base
> oil. Yes, some other synthetics do. However, the bottom line is that
> the Group III vs. Group IV (PAO) base oil debate is pretty much over and
> it has been widely demonstrated that extraordinary good motor oils can
> be made with either one. Group III synthetics start with crude oil for
> the feedstock of the chemical transformation process. Group IV oils
> start out life as natural gas. Why some people get working into a
> lather about the distinction of starting with natural oil or starting
> with natural gas is a bit mysterious to me. That said, Mobil-1 still
> uses PAO as the base oil.
>
> I have yet to see any bottle of motor oil from any company which spells
> out the base oil and additive chemistry used.
>
> John
>
no, mobil 1 has only 5% pao. therefore, pao is /not/ the base, it's
simply a [minority] additive.

http://msds.ogden.disa.mil/msds/owa/...imsdsnr=194095

there is indeed more speculation and misinformation on this subject than
can be believed. mobil 1 may have been pao base at some point in
history, but that's not the case today.

Re: how many use synth oil?
 

John Horner wrote:
> jim beam wrote:
>> Dr Nick wrote:
>>> how many of your guys out there use synthetic oil in your cars? just
>>> curious, I'm thinking of switching to mobil 1 at my next change in my
>>> 06 accord.
>>>
>> technically, i doubt /anyone/ here is using a true synthetic oil.
>> most everything sold as "synthetic" here in the us is in fact a group
>> III mineral oil, including mobil 1. don't get me wrong, m1 is a fine
>> oil, but all this hoopla about "synthetic" is marketing semantics, not
>> chemistry. true synthetics are specifically labeled as to what their
>> base oil is. if the oil is not so labeled but still called
>> "synthetic", it's a group III. the [mis]information you see on the
>> interweb on this subject is quite extraordinary in its utter
>> pervasiveness. i guess wishful thinking is easily cultivated with a
>> little strategically placed bovine excrement.
>
>
> There is more speculation and misinformation on this subject than one
> can ever hope to sort out. No, Mobil-1 isn't using a Group III base
> oil. Yes, some other synthetics do. However, the bottom line is that
> the Group III vs. Group IV (PAO) base oil debate is pretty much over and
> it has been widely demonstrated that extraordinary good motor oils can
> be made with either one. Group III synthetics start with crude oil for
> the feedstock of the chemical transformation process. Group IV oils
> start out life as natural gas. Why some people get working into a
> lather about the distinction of starting with natural oil or starting
> with natural gas is a bit mysterious to me. That said, Mobil-1 still
> uses PAO as the base oil.
>
> I have yet to see any bottle of motor oil from any company which spells
> out the base oil and additive chemistry used.
>
> John
>
no, mobil 1 has only 5% pao. therefore, pao is /not/ the base, it's
simply a [minority] additive.

http://msds.ogden.disa.mil/msds/owa/...imsdsnr=194095

there is indeed more speculation and misinformation on this subject than
can be believed. mobil 1 may have been pao base at some point in
history, but that's not the case today.

Re: how many use synth oil?
 

jim beam wrote:
> John Horner wrote:
>> jim beam wrote:
>>> Dr Nick wrote:
>>>> how many of your guys out there use synthetic oil in your cars? just
>>>> curious, I'm thinking of switching to mobil 1 at my next change in
>>>> my 06 accord.
>>>>
>>> technically, i doubt /anyone/ here is using a true synthetic oil.
>>> most everything sold as "synthetic" here in the us is in fact a group
>>> III mineral oil, including mobil 1. don't get me wrong, m1 is a fine
>>> oil, but all this hoopla about "synthetic" is marketing semantics,
>>> not chemistry. true synthetics are specifically labeled as to what
>>> their base oil is. if the oil is not so labeled but still called
>>> "synthetic", it's a group III. the [mis]information you see on the
>>> interweb on this subject is quite extraordinary in its utter
>>> pervasiveness. i guess wishful thinking is easily cultivated with a
>>> little strategically placed bovine excrement.
>>
>>
>> There is more speculation and misinformation on this subject than one
>> can ever hope to sort out. No, Mobil-1 isn't using a Group III base
>> oil. Yes, some other synthetics do. However, the bottom line is that
>> the Group III vs. Group IV (PAO) base oil debate is pretty much over
>> and it has been widely demonstrated that extraordinary good motor oils
>> can be made with either one. Group III synthetics start with crude
>> oil for the feedstock of the chemical transformation process. Group
>> IV oils start out life as natural gas. Why some people get working
>> into a lather about the distinction of starting with natural oil or
>> starting with natural gas is a bit mysterious to me. That said,
>> Mobil-1 still uses PAO as the base oil.
>>
>> I have yet to see any bottle of motor oil from any company which
>> spells out the base oil and additive chemistry used.
>>
>> John
>>
> no, mobil 1 has only 5% pao. therefore, pao is /not/ the base, it's
> simply a [minority] additive.
>
> http://msds.ogden.disa.mil/msds/owa/...imsdsnr=194095
>
> there is indeed more speculation and misinformation on this subject than
> can be believed. mobil 1 may have been pao base at some point in
> history, but that's not the case today.

forgot:
"I have yet to see any bottle of motor oil from any company which spells
out the base oil and additive chemistry used."

here are a couple of examples of products identifying the base:
http://www.motul.fr/motulbaseuk/gab_fiche2.asp
http://redlineoil.com/pdf/4.pdf

msds info often gives additive info, although it has to be said, msds
filings are woefully inadequate, incomplete, inaccurate and untimely in
this arena.

Re: how many use synth oil?
 

jim beam wrote:
> John Horner wrote:
>> jim beam wrote:
>>> Dr Nick wrote:
>>>> how many of your guys out there use synthetic oil in your cars? just
>>>> curious, I'm thinking of switching to mobil 1 at my next change in
>>>> my 06 accord.
>>>>
>>> technically, i doubt /anyone/ here is using a true synthetic oil.
>>> most everything sold as "synthetic" here in the us is in fact a group
>>> III mineral oil, including mobil 1. don't get me wrong, m1 is a fine
>>> oil, but all this hoopla about "synthetic" is marketing semantics,
>>> not chemistry. true synthetics are specifically labeled as to what
>>> their base oil is. if the oil is not so labeled but still called
>>> "synthetic", it's a group III. the [mis]information you see on the
>>> interweb on this subject is quite extraordinary in its utter
>>> pervasiveness. i guess wishful thinking is easily cultivated with a
>>> little strategically placed bovine excrement.
>>
>>
>> There is more speculation and misinformation on this subject than one
>> can ever hope to sort out. No, Mobil-1 isn't using a Group III base
>> oil. Yes, some other synthetics do. However, the bottom line is that
>> the Group III vs. Group IV (PAO) base oil debate is pretty much over
>> and it has been widely demonstrated that extraordinary good motor oils
>> can be made with either one. Group III synthetics start with crude
>> oil for the feedstock of the chemical transformation process. Group
>> IV oils start out life as natural gas. Why some people get working
>> into a lather about the distinction of starting with natural oil or
>> starting with natural gas is a bit mysterious to me. That said,
>> Mobil-1 still uses PAO as the base oil.
>>
>> I have yet to see any bottle of motor oil from any company which
>> spells out the base oil and additive chemistry used.
>>
>> John
>>
> no, mobil 1 has only 5% pao. therefore, pao is /not/ the base, it's
> simply a [minority] additive.
>
> http://msds.ogden.disa.mil/msds/owa/...imsdsnr=194095
>
> there is indeed more speculation and misinformation on this subject than
> can be believed. mobil 1 may have been pao base at some point in
> history, but that's not the case today.

forgot:
"I have yet to see any bottle of motor oil from any company which spells
out the base oil and additive chemistry used."

here are a couple of examples of products identifying the base:
http://www.motul.fr/motulbaseuk/gab_fiche2.asp
http://redlineoil.com/pdf/4.pdf

msds info often gives additive info, although it has to be said, msds
filings are woefully inadequate, incomplete, inaccurate and untimely in
this arena.

Re: how many use synth oil?
 

jim beam wrote:
> John Horner wrote:
>> jim beam wrote:
>>> Dr Nick wrote:
>>>> how many of your guys out there use synthetic oil in your cars? just
>>>> curious, I'm thinking of switching to mobil 1 at my next change in
>>>> my 06 accord.
>>>>
>>> technically, i doubt /anyone/ here is using a true synthetic oil.
>>> most everything sold as "synthetic" here in the us is in fact a group
>>> III mineral oil, including mobil 1. don't get me wrong, m1 is a fine
>>> oil, but all this hoopla about "synthetic" is marketing semantics,
>>> not chemistry. true synthetics are specifically labeled as to what
>>> their base oil is. if the oil is not so labeled but still called
>>> "synthetic", it's a group III. the [mis]information you see on the
>>> interweb on this subject is quite extraordinary in its utter
>>> pervasiveness. i guess wishful thinking is easily cultivated with a
>>> little strategically placed bovine excrement.
>>
>>
>> There is more speculation and misinformation on this subject than one
>> can ever hope to sort out. No, Mobil-1 isn't using a Group III base
>> oil. Yes, some other synthetics do. However, the bottom line is that
>> the Group III vs. Group IV (PAO) base oil debate is pretty much over
>> and it has been widely demonstrated that extraordinary good motor oils
>> can be made with either one. Group III synthetics start with crude
>> oil for the feedstock of the chemical transformation process. Group
>> IV oils start out life as natural gas. Why some people get working
>> into a lather about the distinction of starting with natural oil or
>> starting with natural gas is a bit mysterious to me. That said,
>> Mobil-1 still uses PAO as the base oil.
>>
>> I have yet to see any bottle of motor oil from any company which
>> spells out the base oil and additive chemistry used.
>>
>> John
>>
> no, mobil 1 has only 5% pao. therefore, pao is /not/ the base, it's
> simply a [minority] additive.
>
> http://msds.ogden.disa.mil/msds/owa/...imsdsnr=194095
>
> there is indeed more speculation and misinformation on this subject than
> can be believed. mobil 1 may have been pao base at some point in
> history, but that's not the case today.

forgot:
"I have yet to see any bottle of motor oil from any company which spells
out the base oil and additive chemistry used."

here are a couple of examples of products identifying the base:
http://www.motul.fr/motulbaseuk/gab_fiche2.asp
http://redlineoil.com/pdf/4.pdf

msds info often gives additive info, although it has to be said, msds
filings are woefully inadequate, incomplete, inaccurate and untimely in
this arena.

Re: how many use synth oil?
 

jim beam wrote:
> John Horner wrote:
>> jim beam wrote:
>>> Dr Nick wrote:
>>>> how many of your guys out there use synthetic oil in your cars? just
>>>> curious, I'm thinking of switching to mobil 1 at my next change in
>>>> my 06 accord.
>>>>
>>> technically, i doubt /anyone/ here is using a true synthetic oil.
>>> most everything sold as "synthetic" here in the us is in fact a group
>>> III mineral oil, including mobil 1. don't get me wrong, m1 is a fine
>>> oil, but all this hoopla about "synthetic" is marketing semantics,
>>> not chemistry. true synthetics are specifically labeled as to what
>>> their base oil is. if the oil is not so labeled but still called
>>> "synthetic", it's a group III. the [mis]information you see on the
>>> interweb on this subject is quite extraordinary in its utter
>>> pervasiveness. i guess wishful thinking is easily cultivated with a
>>> little strategically placed bovine excrement.
>>
>>
>> There is more speculation and misinformation on this subject than one
>> can ever hope to sort out. No, Mobil-1 isn't using a Group III base
>> oil. Yes, some other synthetics do. However, the bottom line is that
>> the Group III vs. Group IV (PAO) base oil debate is pretty much over
>> and it has been widely demonstrated that extraordinary good motor oils
>> can be made with either one. Group III synthetics start with crude
>> oil for the feedstock of the chemical transformation process. Group
>> IV oils start out life as natural gas. Why some people get working
>> into a lather about the distinction of starting with natural oil or
>> starting with natural gas is a bit mysterious to me. That said,
>> Mobil-1 still uses PAO as the base oil.
>>
>> I have yet to see any bottle of motor oil from any company which
>> spells out the base oil and additive chemistry used.
>>
>> John
>>
> no, mobil 1 has only 5% pao. therefore, pao is /not/ the base, it's
> simply a [minority] additive.
>
> http://msds.ogden.disa.mil/msds/owa/...imsdsnr=194095
>
> there is indeed more speculation and misinformation on this subject than
> can be believed. mobil 1 may have been pao base at some point in
> history, but that's not the case today.

forgot:
"I have yet to see any bottle of motor oil from any company which spells
out the base oil and additive chemistry used."

here are a couple of examples of products identifying the base:
http://www.motul.fr/motulbaseuk/gab_fiche2.asp
http://redlineoil.com/pdf/4.pdf

msds info often gives additive info, although it has to be said, msds
filings are woefully inadequate, incomplete, inaccurate and untimely in
this arena.

Re: how many use synth oil?
 

jim beam wrote:


> no, mobil 1 has only 5% pao. therefore, pao is /not/ the base, it's
> simply a [minority] additive.
>
> http://msds.ogden.disa.mil/msds/owa/...imsdsnr=194095
>
> there is indeed more speculation and misinformation on this subject than
> can be believed. mobil 1 may have been pao base at some point in
> history, but that's not the case today.

Well, doesn't that just suck!

Re: how many use synth oil?
 

jim beam wrote:


> no, mobil 1 has only 5% pao. therefore, pao is /not/ the base, it's
> simply a [minority] additive.
>
> http://msds.ogden.disa.mil/msds/owa/...imsdsnr=194095
>
> there is indeed more speculation and misinformation on this subject than
> can be believed. mobil 1 may have been pao base at some point in
> history, but that's not the case today.

Well, doesn't that just suck!

Re: how many use synth oil?
 

jim beam wrote:


> no, mobil 1 has only 5% pao. therefore, pao is /not/ the base, it's
> simply a [minority] additive.
>
> http://msds.ogden.disa.mil/msds/owa/...imsdsnr=194095
>
> there is indeed more speculation and misinformation on this subject than
> can be believed. mobil 1 may have been pao base at some point in
> history, but that's not the case today.

Well, doesn't that just suck!

Re: how many use synth oil?
 

jim beam wrote:


> no, mobil 1 has only 5% pao. therefore, pao is /not/ the base, it's
> simply a [minority] additive.
>
> http://msds.ogden.disa.mil/msds/owa/...imsdsnr=194095
>
> there is indeed more speculation and misinformation on this subject than
> can be believed. mobil 1 may have been pao base at some point in
> history, but that's not the case today.

Well, doesn't that just suck!

Re: how many use synth oil?
 

Dr Nick wrote:
> how many of your guys out there use synthetic oil in your cars? just
> curious, I'm thinking of switching to mobil 1 at my next change in my 06
> accord.



The transmission company that I work for is switching exclusively to
Mobile 1. It's a somewhat large company, and Mobile 1 is actually going
to start packaging it in gallon containers just for us. The guys in the
tech dept. claim it's the best tranny fluit out there. As a matter of
fact, we're going to start recommending trans fluid changes every 5
years instead of every year because of it.