Re: Importing a Honda from USA to Canada
 

"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in
news:elmop-3273E1.12502423092007@nntp1.usenetserver.com:

> In article <Xns99B47CF6263BBtegger@207.14.116.130>,
> Tegger <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote:
>
>> >> Yes it will. Both ways, too.
>> >
>> > Nope. Not at all.
>> >
>>
>>
>> Cite your source.
>
> Personal experience of people at odyclub.com who were suckered by
> their dealers into buying Odysseys from Canada, back when the demand
> was super-high and the dealers were looking to get product any way
> they can to sell to people who were ecstatic to pay list plus.
>
> They went for warranty work and discovered they weren't covered.
>


Anecdotal evidence from Internet postings wasn't good enough for me; too
much "Internet wisdom" floating around (some of it even from me).

So I called my local dealer, plus I called Honda Canada Inc. Customer
Service (1-888-946-6329).

Both you and I are partially correct. Here is the final word from Honda
Canada Inc:

(Remember that dealers are independent companies; they are NOT part of
Honda. They just buy franchise licenses from Honda.)

------
Situation 1:
Legal US resident with US address moves to Canada, whether permanently
or temporarily. So long as he remains the owner of the vehicle and
retains proof of his former US residency and driver's license, the US
warranty REMAINS VALID and Canadian dealers may obtain from American
Honda reimbursement for warranty repair.

Situation 2:
Canadian resident moves to US as Situation 1, brings his Canadian car
with him. Canadian warranty REMAINS VALID in US as in Situation 1 with
conditions as per Situation 1. US dealers may repair and apply for
reimbursement from Honda Canada.

Situation 3:
Canadian resident with Canadian address buys car from US dealer, legally
imports it to Canada. US warranty is NOT VALID in Canada. Car must be
driven to US dealer for warranty service. Neither you nor the Canadian
dealer may apply for reimbursment from American Honda.

Situation 4:
US resident with US address buys car in Canada, legally imports it to
US. Canadian warranty is NOT VALID in US. Car must be driven to
Canadian dealer for warranty service. Neither you nor the US dealer may
apply for reimbursment from Honda Canada.

EXCEPTION:
"Safety Recall" repairs WILL be done under warranty in ALL situations by
ALL dealers on BOTH sides of the border to ALL cars, regardless of the
import situation, provided the importation was legal.
------

The Honda rep was unaware of any governmental laws concerning this. As
far as she knew, this was Honda's policy and that other car
manufacturers may have different policies. She was careful to say she
was no expert on the legal side of the issue. All she knew was /what/
Honda's official policy was, not /why/ it existed.

My personal suspicion is that this has something to do with franchising
laws. Auto franchises are backed by considerable federal and
state/provincial regulation, this in order to protect them from the
automakers and from each other. It would not surprise me to find out
that such policy exists as a way of protecting dealers from cross-border
competition arising from currency fluctuations and pricing based on that
fluctuation.

So there you have it.

--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Re: Importing a Honda from USA to Canada
 

In article <Xns99B56DC21CA15tegger@207.14.116.130>,
Tegger <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote:

> Situation 1:
> Legal US resident with US address moves to Canada, whether permanently
> or temporarily. So long as he remains the owner of the vehicle and
> retains proof of his former US residency and driver's license, the US
> warranty REMAINS VALID and Canadian dealers may obtain from American
> Honda reimbursement for warranty repair.
>
> Situation 2:
> Canadian resident moves to US as Situation 1, brings his Canadian car
> with him. Canadian warranty REMAINS VALID in US as in Situation 1 with
> conditions as per Situation 1. US dealers may repair and apply for
> reimbursement from Honda Canada.

That's merely an agreement between the two entities. That's fine--but
everyone should be aware of two things:

1) the agreement could change at any moment, because

2) even though the cars may be identical, the business units who sell
the cars are different and separate. They're separate financial
entities.


> Situation 3:
> Canadian resident with Canadian address buys car from US dealer, legally
> imports it to Canada. US warranty is NOT VALID in Canada. Car must be
> driven to US dealer for warranty service. Neither you nor the Canadian
> dealer may apply for reimbursment from American Honda.
>
> Situation 4:
> US resident with US address buys car in Canada, legally imports it to
> US. Canadian warranty is NOT VALID in US. Car must be driven to
> Canadian dealer for warranty service. Neither you nor the US dealer may
> apply for reimbursment from Honda Canada.
>
> EXCEPTION:
> "Safety Recall" repairs WILL be done under warranty in ALL situations by
> ALL dealers on BOTH sides of the border to ALL cars, regardless of the
> import situation, provided the importation was legal.

This addresses individuals buying cars and going through the import
process. And of course Honda will handle safety recalls regardless;
it'd be suicide not to.

But you may want to call back and ask about dealers bringing the cars
down across the border and selling them.

Do the dealers have to go through a formal import process?

My impression was that even though the cars may be zero mile cars, they
are essentially "used" cars when brought into the foreign (non-home)
market. The dealerships wouldn't admit to that...

Re: Importing a Honda from USA to Canada
 

In article <Xns99B56DC21CA15tegger@207.14.116.130>,
Tegger <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote:

> Situation 1:
> Legal US resident with US address moves to Canada, whether permanently
> or temporarily. So long as he remains the owner of the vehicle and
> retains proof of his former US residency and driver's license, the US
> warranty REMAINS VALID and Canadian dealers may obtain from American
> Honda reimbursement for warranty repair.
>
> Situation 2:
> Canadian resident moves to US as Situation 1, brings his Canadian car
> with him. Canadian warranty REMAINS VALID in US as in Situation 1 with
> conditions as per Situation 1. US dealers may repair and apply for
> reimbursement from Honda Canada.

That's merely an agreement between the two entities. That's fine--but
everyone should be aware of two things:

1) the agreement could change at any moment, because

2) even though the cars may be identical, the business units who sell
the cars are different and separate. They're separate financial
entities.


> Situation 3:
> Canadian resident with Canadian address buys car from US dealer, legally
> imports it to Canada. US warranty is NOT VALID in Canada. Car must be
> driven to US dealer for warranty service. Neither you nor the Canadian
> dealer may apply for reimbursment from American Honda.
>
> Situation 4:
> US resident with US address buys car in Canada, legally imports it to
> US. Canadian warranty is NOT VALID in US. Car must be driven to
> Canadian dealer for warranty service. Neither you nor the US dealer may
> apply for reimbursment from Honda Canada.
>
> EXCEPTION:
> "Safety Recall" repairs WILL be done under warranty in ALL situations by
> ALL dealers on BOTH sides of the border to ALL cars, regardless of the
> import situation, provided the importation was legal.

This addresses individuals buying cars and going through the import
process. And of course Honda will handle safety recalls regardless;
it'd be suicide not to.

But you may want to call back and ask about dealers bringing the cars
down across the border and selling them.

Do the dealers have to go through a formal import process?

My impression was that even though the cars may be zero mile cars, they
are essentially "used" cars when brought into the foreign (non-home)
market. The dealerships wouldn't admit to that...

Re: Importing a Honda from USA to Canada
 

"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in
news:elmop-18825C.11011324092007@nntp1.usenetserver.com:



<snip>



>
> That's merely an agreement between the two entities. That's fine--but
> everyone should be aware of two things:
>
> 1) the agreement could change at any moment, because
>
> 2) even though the cars may be identical, the business units who sell
> the cars are different and separate. They're separate financial
> entities.



This may not be true if government auto franchising regulations govern
this matter (which I suspect). At that point, the delaers would have to
lobby the government to get the regulations changed.

Franchise regulations are very complex and intrusive, much like those
surrounding auto insurance, or health care.



<snip>


>
> This addresses individuals buying cars and going through the import
> process. And of course Honda will handle safety recalls regardless;
> it'd be suicide not to.
>
> But you may want to call back and ask about dealers bringing the cars
> down across the border and selling them.



I called again to ask just this.

It appears the same ownership/residency thing holds for dealers as for
individuals.

Franchised Honda dealers MUST buy their vehicles directly from the local
Honda affiliate in their home country. Honda will NOT (except in
/extremely/ rare circumstances) sell dealers in one market vehicles
intended for some other market.

If a dealer wishes to cross the border, buy some cars from a dealer on
the other side of the border, then resell them to you, there is
NO FACTORY WARRANTY.

If the importing dealer wishes to sell the car with /some/ kind of
warranty, it will be a warranty arranged by that dealer, at that
dealer's cost. Honda will not have anything to do with it.

To protect yourself from scams resulting from unauthorized importation,
look at the sticker on the door frame. If the vehicle's certification
authority is NOT the one that governs your market/country, the car is an
unauthorized import. A Canadian market car's sticker will mention
Transport Canada. A US market's car will probably mention the NHTSA
(don't know for sure).



>
> Do the dealers have to go through a formal import process?



Same as an individual. Honda is NOT involved in ANY way and does NOT
sanction importation that is not corried out by Honda itself.



>
> My impression was that even though the cars may be zero mile cars,
> they are essentially "used" cars when brought into the foreign
> (non-home) market. The dealerships wouldn't admit to that...
>


They are "used" because ownership has changed hands.

Honda sells the cars to an authorized dealer, and authorized dealers in
the SAME MARKET may sell the cars to each other. These are the ONLY
classes of sale that retain the car's "new" designation.

ANY other kind of sale thereafter means the car is USED. The car could
get sold to the automaker's own leasing arm, to you, to a dealer in
another market, a company, it doesn't matter. It's a USED car even if it
never turns a wheel.



--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Re: Importing a Honda from USA to Canada
 

"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in
news:elmop-18825C.11011324092007@nntp1.usenetserver.com:



<snip>



>
> That's merely an agreement between the two entities. That's fine--but
> everyone should be aware of two things:
>
> 1) the agreement could change at any moment, because
>
> 2) even though the cars may be identical, the business units who sell
> the cars are different and separate. They're separate financial
> entities.



This may not be true if government auto franchising regulations govern
this matter (which I suspect). At that point, the delaers would have to
lobby the government to get the regulations changed.

Franchise regulations are very complex and intrusive, much like those
surrounding auto insurance, or health care.



<snip>


>
> This addresses individuals buying cars and going through the import
> process. And of course Honda will handle safety recalls regardless;
> it'd be suicide not to.
>
> But you may want to call back and ask about dealers bringing the cars
> down across the border and selling them.



I called again to ask just this.

It appears the same ownership/residency thing holds for dealers as for
individuals.

Franchised Honda dealers MUST buy their vehicles directly from the local
Honda affiliate in their home country. Honda will NOT (except in
/extremely/ rare circumstances) sell dealers in one market vehicles
intended for some other market.

If a dealer wishes to cross the border, buy some cars from a dealer on
the other side of the border, then resell them to you, there is
NO FACTORY WARRANTY.

If the importing dealer wishes to sell the car with /some/ kind of
warranty, it will be a warranty arranged by that dealer, at that
dealer's cost. Honda will not have anything to do with it.

To protect yourself from scams resulting from unauthorized importation,
look at the sticker on the door frame. If the vehicle's certification
authority is NOT the one that governs your market/country, the car is an
unauthorized import. A Canadian market car's sticker will mention
Transport Canada. A US market's car will probably mention the NHTSA
(don't know for sure).



>
> Do the dealers have to go through a formal import process?



Same as an individual. Honda is NOT involved in ANY way and does NOT
sanction importation that is not corried out by Honda itself.



>
> My impression was that even though the cars may be zero mile cars,
> they are essentially "used" cars when brought into the foreign
> (non-home) market. The dealerships wouldn't admit to that...
>


They are "used" because ownership has changed hands.

Honda sells the cars to an authorized dealer, and authorized dealers in
the SAME MARKET may sell the cars to each other. These are the ONLY
classes of sale that retain the car's "new" designation.

ANY other kind of sale thereafter means the car is USED. The car could
get sold to the automaker's own leasing arm, to you, to a dealer in
another market, a company, it doesn't matter. It's a USED car even if it
never turns a wheel.



--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Re: Importing a Honda from USA to Canada
 

In article <Xns99B579EB59BFDtegger@207.14.116.130>,
Tegger <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote:

> If a dealer wishes to cross the border, buy some cars from a dealer on
> the other side of the border, then resell them to you, there is
> NO FACTORY WARRANTY.

Which is exactly what Odyssey buyers were finding during those 5 years
of shortages. And skanky dealers weren't disclosing this.

Re: Importing a Honda from USA to Canada
 

In article <Xns99B579EB59BFDtegger@207.14.116.130>,
Tegger <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote:

> If a dealer wishes to cross the border, buy some cars from a dealer on
> the other side of the border, then resell them to you, there is
> NO FACTORY WARRANTY.

Which is exactly what Odyssey buyers were finding during those 5 years
of shortages. And skanky dealers weren't disclosing this.

Re: Importing a Honda from USA to Canada
 

"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in news:elmop-
8AE520.18081324092007@nntp1.usenetserver.com:

> In article <Xns99B579EB59BFDtegger@207.14.116.130>,
> Tegger <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote:
>
>> If a dealer wishes to cross the border, buy some cars from a dealer on
>> the other side of the border, then resell them to you, there is
>> NO FACTORY WARRANTY.
>
> Which is exactly what Odyssey buyers were finding during those 5 years
> of shortages. And skanky dealers weren't disclosing this.
>
>


I left out a bit in my haste to post:
If you are willing to drive the car back to its home country, the factory
warranty is STILL VALID there even though the car is registered /outside/
the car's home country.

The dealer will not care where you live, or where the car is registered and
licensed. They only care what market the car was originally made for.

Taking the car back is easy for peple living an hour or so from the border,
a lot more difficult if you live further than that.

My original assertion that the warranty was valid both sides of the border
was based on the experience of the guy I know who took his car across when
he moved. His Canadian warranty was honored in the US because
1) he was the original importing owner, and
2) he had proof of former Canadian residence.

I was unaware until today of the ownership and residency requirements, so
thanks to Elmo for prompting that.

--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Re: Importing a Honda from USA to Canada
 

"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in news:elmop-
8AE520.18081324092007@nntp1.usenetserver.com:

> In article <Xns99B579EB59BFDtegger@207.14.116.130>,
> Tegger <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote:
>
>> If a dealer wishes to cross the border, buy some cars from a dealer on
>> the other side of the border, then resell them to you, there is
>> NO FACTORY WARRANTY.
>
> Which is exactly what Odyssey buyers were finding during those 5 years
> of shortages. And skanky dealers weren't disclosing this.
>
>


I left out a bit in my haste to post:
If you are willing to drive the car back to its home country, the factory
warranty is STILL VALID there even though the car is registered /outside/
the car's home country.

The dealer will not care where you live, or where the car is registered and
licensed. They only care what market the car was originally made for.

Taking the car back is easy for peple living an hour or so from the border,
a lot more difficult if you live further than that.

My original assertion that the warranty was valid both sides of the border
was based on the experience of the guy I know who took his car across when
he moved. His Canadian warranty was honored in the US because
1) he was the original importing owner, and
2) he had proof of former Canadian residence.

I was unaware until today of the ownership and residency requirements, so
thanks to Elmo for prompting that.

--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Re: Importing a Honda from USA to Canada
 

I have to contradict this, the Honda dealer in Grand Forks will not service
vehicles with out of country tags.

What would be the best way to proceed?

t

Tegger wrote:
>"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in news:elmop-
>8AE520.18081324092007@nntp1.usenetserver.com:
>
>>> If a dealer wishes to cross the border, buy some cars from a dealer on
>>> the other side of the border, then resell them to you, there is
>>> NO FACTORY WARRANTY.
>>
>> Which is exactly what Odyssey buyers were finding during those 5 years
>> of shortages. And skanky dealers weren't disclosing this.
>
>I left out a bit in my haste to post:
>If you are willing to drive the car back to its home country, the factory
>warranty is STILL VALID there even though the car is registered /outside/
>the car's home country.
>
>The dealer will not care where you live, or where the car is registered and
>licensed. They only care what market the car was originally made for.
>
>Taking the car back is easy for peple living an hour or so from the border,
>a lot more difficult if you live further than that.
>
>My original assertion that the warranty was valid both sides of the border
>was based on the experience of the guy I know who took his car across when
>he moved. His Canadian warranty was honored in the US because
>1) he was the original importing owner, and
>2) he had proof of former Canadian residence.
>
>I was unaware until today of the ownership and residency requirements, so
>thanks to Elmo for prompting that.
>

--
Message posted via CarKB.com
http://www.carkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx...-cars/200709/1

Re: Importing a Honda from USA to Canada
 

I have to contradict this, the Honda dealer in Grand Forks will not service
vehicles with out of country tags.

What would be the best way to proceed?

t

Tegger wrote:
>"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in news:elmop-
>8AE520.18081324092007@nntp1.usenetserver.com:
>
>>> If a dealer wishes to cross the border, buy some cars from a dealer on
>>> the other side of the border, then resell them to you, there is
>>> NO FACTORY WARRANTY.
>>
>> Which is exactly what Odyssey buyers were finding during those 5 years
>> of shortages. And skanky dealers weren't disclosing this.
>
>I left out a bit in my haste to post:
>If you are willing to drive the car back to its home country, the factory
>warranty is STILL VALID there even though the car is registered /outside/
>the car's home country.
>
>The dealer will not care where you live, or where the car is registered and
>licensed. They only care what market the car was originally made for.
>
>Taking the car back is easy for peple living an hour or so from the border,
>a lot more difficult if you live further than that.
>
>My original assertion that the warranty was valid both sides of the border
>was based on the experience of the guy I know who took his car across when
>he moved. His Canadian warranty was honored in the US because
>1) he was the original importing owner, and
>2) he had proof of former Canadian residence.
>
>I was unaware until today of the ownership and residency requirements, so
>thanks to Elmo for prompting that.
>

--
Message posted via CarKB.com
http://www.carkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx...-cars/200709/1

Re: Importing a Honda from USA to Canada
 

Tegger wrote:
> "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in news:elmop-
> 8AE520.18081324092007@nntp1.usenetserver.com:
>
>> In article <Xns99B579EB59BFDtegger@207.14.116.130>,
>> Tegger <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote:
>>
>>> If a dealer wishes to cross the border, buy some cars from a dealer on
>>> the other side of the border, then resell them to you, there is
>>> NO FACTORY WARRANTY.
>> Which is exactly what Odyssey buyers were finding during those 5 years
>> of shortages. And skanky dealers weren't disclosing this.
>>
>>
>
>
> I left out a bit in my haste to post:
> If you are willing to drive the car back to its home country, the factory
> warranty is STILL VALID there even though the car is registered /outside/
> the car's home country.
>
> The dealer will not care where you live, or where the car is registered and
> licensed. They only care what market the car was originally made for.
>
> Taking the car back is easy for peple living an hour or so from the border,
> a lot more difficult if you live further than that.
>
> My original assertion that the warranty was valid both sides of the border
> was based on the experience of the guy I know who took his car across when
> he moved. His Canadian warranty was honored in the US because
> 1) he was the original importing owner, and
> 2) he had proof of former Canadian residence.

And that was the question which I had which may have prompted (at least
in part) this "I'm from Missouri, show it to me!" discussion. I can
understand how the concept of buying what is essentially gray market
goods, i.e. US produced/warrantied auto by a non-resident who
immediately heads back across the border, might impact on ones warranty
work. Similarly, I fail to see how a legitimate change of residency
would defeat the warranty owed to an otherwise bonafide purchaser.

Re: Importing a Honda from USA to Canada
 

Tegger wrote:
> "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in news:elmop-
> 8AE520.18081324092007@nntp1.usenetserver.com:
>
>> In article <Xns99B579EB59BFDtegger@207.14.116.130>,
>> Tegger <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote:
>>
>>> If a dealer wishes to cross the border, buy some cars from a dealer on
>>> the other side of the border, then resell them to you, there is
>>> NO FACTORY WARRANTY.
>> Which is exactly what Odyssey buyers were finding during those 5 years
>> of shortages. And skanky dealers weren't disclosing this.
>>
>>
>
>
> I left out a bit in my haste to post:
> If you are willing to drive the car back to its home country, the factory
> warranty is STILL VALID there even though the car is registered /outside/
> the car's home country.
>
> The dealer will not care where you live, or where the car is registered and
> licensed. They only care what market the car was originally made for.
>
> Taking the car back is easy for peple living an hour or so from the border,
> a lot more difficult if you live further than that.
>
> My original assertion that the warranty was valid both sides of the border
> was based on the experience of the guy I know who took his car across when
> he moved. His Canadian warranty was honored in the US because
> 1) he was the original importing owner, and
> 2) he had proof of former Canadian residence.

And that was the question which I had which may have prompted (at least
in part) this "I'm from Missouri, show it to me!" discussion. I can
understand how the concept of buying what is essentially gray market
goods, i.e. US produced/warrantied auto by a non-resident who
immediately heads back across the border, might impact on ones warranty
work. Similarly, I fail to see how a legitimate change of residency
would defeat the warranty owed to an otherwise bonafide purchaser.

Re: Importing a Honda from USA to Canada
 

In article <78b83e4f868da@uwe>, "loewent via CarKB.com" <u10197@uwe>
wrote:

> I have to contradict this, the Honda dealer in Grand Forks will not service
> vehicles with out of country tags.
>
> What would be the best way to proceed?

Call American Honda Motor Manufacturing, either the customer relations
line or your local zone office:

http://www.odyclub.com/customer.html

They'll straighten the dealer out.

I had them straighten a local dealer out back in, oh, 1988 or so.
Dealer's service manager didn't like it, and told me so. I gave her a
big "so what? Do your job."

Re: Importing a Honda from USA to Canada
 

In article <78b83e4f868da@uwe>, "loewent via CarKB.com" <u10197@uwe>
wrote:

> I have to contradict this, the Honda dealer in Grand Forks will not service
> vehicles with out of country tags.
>
> What would be the best way to proceed?

Call American Honda Motor Manufacturing, either the customer relations
line or your local zone office:

http://www.odyclub.com/customer.html

They'll straighten the dealer out.

I had them straighten a local dealer out back in, oh, 1988 or so.
Dealer's service manager didn't like it, and told me so. I gave her a
big "so what? Do your job."