a little off for some groups: 1989 Mazda 626 clacking from top of engine
 

I'm crossing this to Honda and Toyota because there are some sharp
individuals in these groups, and also in the Ford group since this is a
common engine among Fords, IIRC.

The problem: 1989 Mazda 626. Over the course of the winter, occasionally
on cold days the engine would clack from just under the valve cover. Since
I seem to recall seeing somewhere that this engine has hydraulic lifters
of some sort, it just seemed that allowing the engine to warm and
circulate oil would cause this to stop as the lifters (or whatever!)
responded to the rise in oil pressure. It always worked, and when it
didn't, I would check the oil, add 2/3 3/4 of a quart, and be done with it.

Saturday the oil was down less than 1/4 from the Full on the dipstick.
Since it's getting an oil change in about 500 miles, I let it go.

This morning I had to make a trip about 30-35 miles one way. When I
returned home I noticed the engine was making a louder noise than usual,
and when I went to investigate it was the clacking noise from under the
Valver Cover. I shut the car off and let it cool.

Before I left the house later, I added 2/3 of a quart of Castrol Synthetic
(the closest bottle of oil I had) and started it. I let it run for a
while but the clacking continued. I added about 1/3 quart of Marvel
Mystery and let it run till warm and the noise never went away. After
parking the car for about 2.5 hours, when I started it up the clacking was
still there. I drove home still clacking, but quieter.

The partiulars: this is the 2.0L 12-vavle engine, OHC, new timing belt
<3,000 miles ago, fuel injected. It's going to get parked in 1-3 weeks
when I take my Supra out of winter storage. Any ideas about what it is or
what I should look for? If I find the Haynes I will be able to answer more
questions concerning the motor. It looks good and runs great, even with
the clacking.

Re: a little off for some groups: 1989 Mazda 626 clacking from top of engine
 

"Hachiroku ????" <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote in message
news:JYiQh.8917$IY4.8369@trndny03...
> I'm crossing this to Honda and Toyota because there are some sharp
> individuals in these groups, and also in the Ford group since this is a
> common engine among Fords, IIRC.
>
> The problem: 1989 Mazda 626. Over the course of the winter, occasionally
> on cold days the engine would clack from just under the valve cover. Since
> I seem to recall seeing somewhere that this engine has hydraulic lifters
> of some sort, it just seemed that allowing the engine to warm and
> circulate oil would cause this to stop as the lifters (or whatever!)
> responded to the rise in oil pressure. It always worked, and when it
> didn't, I would check the oil, add 2/3 3/4 of a quart, and be done with
> it.
>
> Saturday the oil was down less than 1/4 from the Full on the dipstick.
> Since it's getting an oil change in about 500 miles, I let it go.
>
> This morning I had to make a trip about 30-35 miles one way. When I
> returned home I noticed the engine was making a louder noise than usual,
> and when I went to investigate it was the clacking noise from under the
> Valver Cover. I shut the car off and let it cool.
>
> Before I left the house later, I added 2/3 of a quart of Castrol Synthetic
> (the closest bottle of oil I had) and started it. I let it run for a
> while but the clacking continued. I added about 1/3 quart of Marvel
> Mystery and let it run till warm and the noise never went away. After
> parking the car for about 2.5 hours, when I started it up the clacking was
> still there. I drove home still clacking, but quieter.
>
> The partiulars: this is the 2.0L 12-vavle engine, OHC, new timing belt
> <3,000 miles ago, fuel injected. It's going to get parked in 1-3 weeks
> when I take my Supra out of winter storage. Any ideas about what it is or
> what I should look for? If I find the Haynes I will be able to answer more
> questions concerning the motor. It looks good and runs great, even with
> the clacking.
>
Collapsed lifter?
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

Re: a little off for some groups: 1989 Mazda 626 clacking from topof engine
 

Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/ wrote:
> I'm crossing this to Honda and Toyota because there are some sharp
> individuals in these groups, and also in the Ford group since this is a
> common engine among Fords, IIRC.
>
> The problem: 1989 Mazda 626. Over the course of the winter, occasionally
> on cold days the engine would clack from just under the valve cover. Since
> I seem to recall seeing somewhere that this engine has hydraulic lifters
> of some sort, it just seemed that allowing the engine to warm and
> circulate oil would cause this to stop as the lifters (or whatever!)
> responded to the rise in oil pressure. It always worked, and when it
> didn't, I would check the oil, add 2/3 3/4 of a quart, and be done with it.
>
> Saturday the oil was down less than 1/4 from the Full on the dipstick.
> Since it's getting an oil change in about 500 miles, I let it go.
>
> This morning I had to make a trip about 30-35 miles one way. When I
> returned home I noticed the engine was making a louder noise than usual,
> and when I went to investigate it was the clacking noise from under the
> Valver Cover. I shut the car off and let it cool.
>
> Before I left the house later, I added 2/3 of a quart of Castrol Synthetic
> (the closest bottle of oil I had) and started it. I let it run for a
> while but the clacking continued. I added about 1/3 quart of Marvel
> Mystery and let it run till warm and the noise never went away. After
> parking the car for about 2.5 hours, when I started it up the clacking was
> still there. I drove home still clacking, but quieter.
>
> The partiulars: this is the 2.0L 12-vavle engine, OHC, new timing belt
> <3,000 miles ago, fuel injected. It's going to get parked in 1-3 weeks
> when I take my Supra out of winter storage. Any ideas about what it is or
> what I should look for? If I find the Haynes I will be able to answer more
> questions concerning the motor. It looks good and runs great, even with
> the clacking.
>
>
well, it wouldn't clack if there wasn't something wrong! either the cam
is damaged or a lifter is leaking badly. you need to open up and
investigate. magic 8-ball says: "you will visit a junk yard next weekend".

Re: a little off for some groups: 1989 Mazda 626 clacking from top of engine
 

On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 00:11:08 -0500, Ray O wrote:

>> The partiulars: this is the 2.0L 12-vavle engine, OHC, new timing belt
>> <3,000 miles ago, fuel injected. It's going to get parked in 1-3 weeks
>> when I take my Supra out of winter storage. Any ideas about what it is
>> or what I should look for? If I find the Haynes I will be able to answer
>> more questions concerning the motor. It looks good and runs great, even
>> with the clacking.
>>
> Collapsed lifter?


Um, that would be my guess, if I knew what it meant...for sure...I think...

;)

Re: a little off for some groups: 1989 Mazda 626 clacking from top of engine
 

On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 00:11:08 -0500, Ray O wrote:

>> The partiulars: this is the 2.0L 12-vavle engine, OHC, new timing belt
>> <3,000 miles ago, fuel injected. It's going to get parked in 1-3 weeks
>> when I take my Supra out of winter storage. Any ideas about what it is
>> or what I should look for? If I find the Haynes I will be able to answer
>> more questions concerning the motor. It looks good and runs great, even
>> with the clacking.
>>
> Collapsed lifter?


From a 'forum':

Possibly a sticky or collapsed lifter. A bent pushrod (or one that's a
little short) also comes to mind as a possibility. A worn rocker or
rocker fulcrum will also cause problems like this.

If the motor is sitting there running like a watch other than the
light ticking, I'd put some Rislone in it to help loosen up any
deposits and drive it around a little....like slowly around the block.
Then swap in some fresh oil (5W-30 Mobil 1 synthetic seems to clean up
old deposits very well for me) and drive it briskly (don't beat the
snot out of it at valve float but don't drive it like grandma does
either) and drive it often as possible. Swap the oil out at short
intervals (500-1000 miles) for a few thousand miles and see if that
quiets things down. It'll either get better with time (a sticky lifter)
or stay the same (or get worse) which could be a slightly collapsed
lifter or bent pushrod.

If it doesn't improve with good oil and drive time then it may have to
come apart to be inspected. If it gets any worse that a light tapping
and/or if the vaccum gauge starts dancing with the tick or if you start
getting a characteristic 'fhtup' out of one end or the other them stop
the motor and pull it down for inspection.

_______________________________


This doesn't sound like fun. I use Marvel Mystery Oil all the time (since
I got it) so I don't expect it's sludge. Don't tell me my $600 bargain
just STB...

Re: a little off for some groups: 89 Mazda 626 (2.2L) clacking at top of engine
 

On Mon, 02 Apr 2007 22:18:56 -0700, jim beam wrote:

> Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/ wrote:
>> I'm crossing this to Honda and Toyota because there are some sharp
>> individuals in these groups, and also in the Ford group since this is a
>> common engine among Fords, IIRC.
>>
>> The problem: 1989 Mazda 626. Over the course of the winter, occasionally
>> on cold days the engine would clack from just under the valve cover.
>> Since I seem to recall seeing somewhere that this engine has hydraulic
>> lifters of some sort, it just seemed that allowing the engine to warm
>> and circulate oil would cause this to stop as the lifters (or whatever!)
>> responded to the rise in oil pressure. It always worked, and when it
>> didn't, I would check the oil, add 2/3 3/4 of a quart, and be done with
>> it.
>>
>> Saturday the oil was down less than 1/4 from the Full on the dipstick.
>> Since it's getting an oil change in about 500 miles, I let it go.
>>
>> This morning I had to make a trip about 30-35 miles one way. When I
>> returned home I noticed the engine was making a louder noise than usual,
>> and when I went to investigate it was the clacking noise from under the
>> Valver Cover. I shut the car off and let it cool.
>>
>> Before I left the house later, I added 2/3 of a quart of Castrol
>> Synthetic (the closest bottle of oil I had) and started it. I let it run
>> for a while but the clacking continued. I added about 1/3 quart of
>> Marvel Mystery and let it run till warm and the noise never went away.
>> After parking the car for about 2.5 hours, when I started it up the
>> clacking was still there. I drove home still clacking, but quieter.
>>
>> The partiulars: this is the 2.0L 12-vavle engine, OHC, new timing belt
>> <3,000 miles ago, fuel injected. It's going to get parked in 1-3 weeks
>> when I take my Supra out of winter storage. Any ideas about what it is
>> or what I should look for? If I find the Haynes I will be able to answer
>> more questions concerning the motor. It looks good and runs great, even
>> with the clacking.
>>
>>
> well, it wouldn't clack if there wasn't something wrong! either the cam
> is damaged or a lifter is leaking badly. you need to open up and
> investigate. magic 8-ball says: "you will visit a junk yard next
> weekend".


LOL! I looked around on the Web, and I guess the lifters collapsing are
fairy common, and they're $11 each at AutoZone.

Now, I just need to figure out how to replace them!


And, it's a 2.2L, not 2.0. I think it was used in the Escort, also.

Re: a little off for some groups: 1989 Mazda 626 clacking fromtop of engine
 

On 4/2/07 9:27 PM, in article JYiQh.8917$IY4.8369@trndny03, "Hachiroku $B%O%A%m(B
$B%/(B" <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote:

> I'm crossing this to Honda and Toyota because there are some sharp
> individuals in these groups, and also in the Ford group since this is a
> common engine among Fords, IIRC.
>
> The problem: 1989 Mazda 626. Over the course of the winter, occasionally
> on cold days the engine would clack from just under the valve cover. Since
> I seem to recall seeing somewhere that this engine has hydraulic lifters
> of some sort, it just seemed that allowing the engine to warm and
> circulate oil would cause this to stop as the lifters (or whatever!)
> responded to the rise in oil pressure. It always worked, and when it
> didn't, I would check the oil, add 2/3 3/4 of a quart, and be done with it.
>
> Saturday the oil was down less than 1/4 from the Full on the dipstick.
> Since it's getting an oil change in about 500 miles, I let it go.
>
> This morning I had to make a trip about 30-35 miles one way. When I
> returned home I noticed the engine was making a louder noise than usual,
> and when I went to investigate it was the clacking noise from under the
> Valver Cover. I shut the car off and let it cool.
>
> Before I left the house later, I added 2/3 of a quart of Castrol Synthetic
> (the closest bottle of oil I had) and started it. I let it run for a
> while but the clacking continued. I added about 1/3 quart of Marvel
> Mystery and let it run till warm and the noise never went away. After
> parking the car for about 2.5 hours, when I started it up the clacking was
> still there. I drove home still clacking, but quieter.
>
> The partiulars: this is the 2.0L 12-vavle engine, OHC, new timing belt
> <3,000 miles ago, fuel injected. It's going to get parked in 1-3 weeks
> when I take my Supra out of winter storage. Any ideas about what it is or
> what I should look for? If I find the Haynes I will be able to answer more
> questions concerning the motor. It looks good and runs great, even with
> the clacking.
>
>

I used to have a '90 Mazda B2200 pickup. There was an acknowledged problem
with the engine in those that the oil ports to the valve hydraulics were too
small. It started making the noise at startup at about 30k miles.
Switching it to Mobil 1 5w-30 fixed the problem for the remaining 10 years
that I owned it.

IIRC thicker oils made the problem worse, and for some reason, that engine
absolutely hated Castrol synthetic - mileage dropped and it would use a
quart/1000 miles with Castrol, but never used a drop with any other brand of
oil.

Re: a little off for some groups: 1989 Mazda 626 clacking from top of engine
 

On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 12:46:23 +0000, E Meyer wrote:

>
>
>
> On 4/2/07 9:27 PM, in article JYiQh.8917$IY4.8369@trndny03, "Hachiroku
> ��ムク" <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote:
>
>> I'm crossing this to Honda and Toyota because there are some sharp
>> individuals in these groups, and also in the Ford group since this is a
>> common engine among Fords, IIRC.
>>
>> The problem: 1989 Mazda 626. Over the course of the winter, occasionally
>> on cold days the engine would clack from just under the valve cover.
>> Since I seem to recall seeing somewhere that this engine has hydraulic
>> lifters of some sort, it just seemed that allowing the engine to warm
>> and circulate oil would cause this to stop as the lifters (or whatever!)
>> responded to the rise in oil pressure. It always worked, and when it
>> didn't, I would check the oil, add 2/3 3/4 of a quart, and be done with
>> it.
>>
>> Saturday the oil was down less than 1/4 from the Full on the dipstick.
>> Since it's getting an oil change in about 500 miles, I let it go.
>>
>> This morning I had to make a trip about 30-35 miles one way. When I
>> returned home I noticed the engine was making a louder noise than usual,
>> and when I went to investigate it was the clacking noise from under the
>> Valver Cover. I shut the car off and let it cool.
>>
>> Before I left the house later, I added 2/3 of a quart of Castrol
>> Synthetic (the closest bottle of oil I had) and started it. I let it run
>> for a while but the clacking continued. I added about 1/3 quart of
>> Marvel Mystery and let it run till warm and the noise never went away.
>> After parking the car for about 2.5 hours, when I started it up the
>> clacking was still there. I drove home still clacking, but quieter.
>>
>> The partiulars: this is the 2.0L 12-vavle engine, OHC, new timing belt
>> <3,000 miles ago, fuel injected. It's going to get parked in 1-3 weeks
>> when I take my Supra out of winter storage. Any ideas about what it is
>> or what I should look for? If I find the Haynes I will be able to answer
>> more questions concerning the motor. It looks good and runs great, even
>> with the clacking.
>>
>>
>>
> I used to have a '90 Mazda B2200 pickup. There was an acknowledged
> problem with the engine in those that the oil ports to the valve
> hydraulics were too small. It started making the noise at startup at
> about 30k miles. Switching it to Mobil 1 5w-30 fixed the problem for the
> remaining 10 years that I owned it.
>
> IIRC thicker oils made the problem worse, and for some reason, that engine
> absolutely hated Castrol synthetic - mileage dropped and it would use a
> quart/1000 miles with Castrol, but never used a drop with any other brand
> of oil.


I wonder if flushing and refilling with lighter weight oil will prevent me
from having to rip out the Lash Adjusters...

Re: a little off for some groups: 1989 Mazda 626 clacking from top of engine
 

On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 02:27:53 +0000, Hachiroku ãƒ�ãƒ�ãƒã‚¯ wrote:

> I'm crossing this to Honda and Toyota because there are some sharp
> individuals in these groups, and also in the Ford group since this is a
> common engine among Fords, IIRC.
>
> The problem: 1989 Mazda 626. Over the course of the winter, occasionally
> on cold days the engine would clack from just under the valve cover. Since
> I seem to recall seeing somewhere that this engine has hydraulic lifters
> of some sort, it just seemed that allowing the engine to warm and
> circulate oil would cause this to stop as the lifters (or whatever!)
> responded to the rise in oil pressure. It always worked, and when it
> didn't, I would check the oil, add 2/3 3/4 of a quart, and be done with
> it.


Interesting:

There is a Horrible ticking from under may valve cover. What is it? How can i fix it?

This is your Hydraulic Lash Adjusters (HLAs) starving of oil. HLAs are essentially
maintenance free and as soon as they start to tick they are supposed to be
replaced. Unfortunately Mazda/Ford wants an arm and a leg for them. There
is a way to squeeze some life out of them.

1. Pour some ATX oil into your engine. DO NOT USE A LOT, 300ML WILL BE SUFFICIENT.
Auto transmission oil/fluid is VERY high in detergents so it will remove
most of the gunk from the HLAs and anything else that oil has contact
with. Drive on this oil mixture for a day or two, no more. 2. During an
oil change, get yourself some engine flush(readily available at any Auto
parts retailer) follow instruction on the can/bottle 3. Put new oil in.

If this procedure did not fix your HLA tick (not to be confused with injector tick which
is normal) you ether will need to clean HLAs physically or replace them.

This procedure is not recommended for engines which have some oil
consumption, as this will clean out all the gunk in piston rings as well,
and you might end up using more oil and smoke badly too

__________________________________________________ __________________

I was approaching an oil change anyway. I wonder if adding more MMO might
have a similar effect...

Re: a little off for some groups: 1989 Mazda 626 clacking from topof engine
 

Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/ wrote:
> On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 12:46:23 +0000, E Meyer wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On 4/2/07 9:27 PM, in article JYiQh.8917$IY4.8369@trndny03, "Hachiroku
>> ��ムク" <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm crossing this to Honda and Toyota because there are some sharp
>>> individuals in these groups, and also in the Ford group since this is a
>>> common engine among Fords, IIRC.
>>>
>>> The problem: 1989 Mazda 626. Over the course of the winter, occasionally
>>> on cold days the engine would clack from just under the valve cover.
>>> Since I seem to recall seeing somewhere that this engine has hydraulic
>>> lifters of some sort, it just seemed that allowing the engine to warm
>>> and circulate oil would cause this to stop as the lifters (or whatever!)
>>> responded to the rise in oil pressure. It always worked, and when it
>>> didn't, I would check the oil, add 2/3 3/4 of a quart, and be done with
>>> it.
>>>
>>> Saturday the oil was down less than 1/4 from the Full on the dipstick.
>>> Since it's getting an oil change in about 500 miles, I let it go.
>>>
>>> This morning I had to make a trip about 30-35 miles one way. When I
>>> returned home I noticed the engine was making a louder noise than usual,
>>> and when I went to investigate it was the clacking noise from under the
>>> Valver Cover. I shut the car off and let it cool.
>>>
>>> Before I left the house later, I added 2/3 of a quart of Castrol
>>> Synthetic (the closest bottle of oil I had) and started it. I let it run
>>> for a while but the clacking continued. I added about 1/3 quart of
>>> Marvel Mystery and let it run till warm and the noise never went away.
>>> After parking the car for about 2.5 hours, when I started it up the
>>> clacking was still there. I drove home still clacking, but quieter.
>>>
>>> The partiulars: this is the 2.0L 12-vavle engine, OHC, new timing belt
>>> <3,000 miles ago, fuel injected. It's going to get parked in 1-3 weeks
>>> when I take my Supra out of winter storage. Any ideas about what it is
>>> or what I should look for? If I find the Haynes I will be able to answer
>>> more questions concerning the motor. It looks good and runs great, even
>>> with the clacking.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> I used to have a '90 Mazda B2200 pickup. There was an acknowledged
>> problem with the engine in those that the oil ports to the valve
>> hydraulics were too small. It started making the noise at startup at
>> about 30k miles. Switching it to Mobil 1 5w-30 fixed the problem for the
>> remaining 10 years that I owned it.
>>
>> IIRC thicker oils made the problem worse, and for some reason, that engine
>> absolutely hated Castrol synthetic - mileage dropped and it would use a
>> quart/1000 miles with Castrol, but never used a drop with any other brand
>> of oil.
>
>
> I wonder if flushing and refilling with lighter weight oil will prevent me
> from having to rip out the Lash Adjusters...
>
try it. i have no idea what that mystery oil stuff is, but there's a
reason motor manufacturers say not to use additives like that...

Re: a little off for some groups: 1989 Mazda 626 clacking from top of engine
 

On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 19:35:34 -0700, jim beam wrote:

> Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/ wrote:
>> On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 12:46:23 +0000, E Meyer wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> On 4/2/07 9:27 PM, in article JYiQh.8917$IY4.8369@trndny03, "Hachiroku
>>> ��ムク" <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm crossing this to Honda and Toyota because there are some sharp
>>>> individuals in these groups, and also in the Ford group since this is
>>>> a common engine among Fords, IIRC.
>>>>
>>>> The problem: 1989 Mazda 626. Over the course of the winter,
>>>> occasionally on cold days the engine would clack from just under the
>>>> valve cover. Since I seem to recall seeing somewhere that this engine
>>>> has hydraulic lifters of some sort, it just seemed that allowing the
>>>> engine to warm and circulate oil would cause this to stop as the
>>>> lifters (or whatever!) responded to the rise in oil pressure. It
>>>> always worked, and when it didn't, I would check the oil, add 2/3 3/4
>>>> of a quart, and be done with it.
>>>>
>>>> Saturday the oil was down less than 1/4 from the Full on the dipstick.
>>>> Since it's getting an oil change in about 500 miles, I let it go.
>>>>
>>>> This morning I had to make a trip about 30-35 miles one way. When I
>>>> returned home I noticed the engine was making a louder noise than
>>>> usual, and when I went to investigate it was the clacking noise from
>>>> under the Valver Cover. I shut the car off and let it cool.
>>>>
>>>> Before I left the house later, I added 2/3 of a quart of Castrol
>>>> Synthetic (the closest bottle of oil I had) and started it. I let it
>>>> run for a while but the clacking continued. I added about 1/3 quart of
>>>> Marvel Mystery and let it run till warm and the noise never went away.
>>>> After parking the car for about 2.5 hours, when I started it up the
>>>> clacking was still there. I drove home still clacking, but quieter.
>>>>
>>>> The partiulars: this is the 2.0L 12-vavle engine, OHC, new timing belt
>>>> <3,000 miles ago, fuel injected. It's going to get parked in 1-3 weeks
>>>> when I take my Supra out of winter storage. Any ideas about what it is
>>>> or what I should look for? If I find the Haynes I will be able to
>>>> answer more questions concerning the motor. It looks good and runs
>>>> great, even with the clacking.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I used to have a '90 Mazda B2200 pickup. There was an acknowledged
>>> problem with the engine in those that the oil ports to the valve
>>> hydraulics were too small. It started making the noise at startup at
>>> about 30k miles. Switching it to Mobil 1 5w-30 fixed the problem for
>>> the remaining 10 years that I owned it.
>>>
>>> IIRC thicker oils made the problem worse, and for some reason, that
>>> engine absolutely hated Castrol synthetic - mileage dropped and it
>>> would use a quart/1000 miles with Castrol, but never used a drop with
>>> any other brand of oil.
>>
>>
>> I wonder if flushing and refilling with lighter weight oil will prevent
>> me from having to rip out the Lash Adjusters...
>>
> try it. i have no idea what that mystery oil stuff is, but there's a
> reason motor manufacturers say not to use additives like that...


Never tried Marvel Mystery Oil?! I started using it in 1978 on a '78
Corolla. Engine went about 65,000 miles...then a guy in a Mustang pulled
right out in front of me!

However, it's replacement went 6 years and 244,000 miles, and IT'S
replacement went 20 years and 259,000 miles...and more if I ever fix the
rust...

The 1.8 in the '80 Corolla and the 1.6 in the '85 Corolla GTS both hold 4
quarts with filter. I put in 3.5 quarts of Castrol GTX 10W-30 or 40, and 1
quart of MMO. No oil problems at all!

It's a very light oil, red in color and smells a bit funky, but with
returns like that I'm a believer! It's kind of like ATF. I add it to
everything now...snowblowers, lawnmowers, etc. When I park my power
equipment for the summer/winter, I spray a little into the spark plug hole
to keep the cylinders and valves from rusting.

Re: a little off for some groups: 1989 Mazda 626 clacking from topof engine
 

Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/ wrote:
> On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 19:35:34 -0700, jim beam wrote:
>
>> Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/ wrote:
>>> On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 12:46:23 +0000, E Meyer wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 4/2/07 9:27 PM, in article JYiQh.8917$IY4.8369@trndny03, "Hachiroku
>>>> ��ムク" <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I'm crossing this to Honda and Toyota because there are some sharp
>>>>> individuals in these groups, and also in the Ford group since this is
>>>>> a common engine among Fords, IIRC.
>>>>>
>>>>> The problem: 1989 Mazda 626. Over the course of the winter,
>>>>> occasionally on cold days the engine would clack from just under the
>>>>> valve cover. Since I seem to recall seeing somewhere that this engine
>>>>> has hydraulic lifters of some sort, it just seemed that allowing the
>>>>> engine to warm and circulate oil would cause this to stop as the
>>>>> lifters (or whatever!) responded to the rise in oil pressure. It
>>>>> always worked, and when it didn't, I would check the oil, add 2/3 3/4
>>>>> of a quart, and be done with it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Saturday the oil was down less than 1/4 from the Full on the dipstick.
>>>>> Since it's getting an oil change in about 500 miles, I let it go.
>>>>>
>>>>> This morning I had to make a trip about 30-35 miles one way. When I
>>>>> returned home I noticed the engine was making a louder noise than
>>>>> usual, and when I went to investigate it was the clacking noise from
>>>>> under the Valver Cover. I shut the car off and let it cool.
>>>>>
>>>>> Before I left the house later, I added 2/3 of a quart of Castrol
>>>>> Synthetic (the closest bottle of oil I had) and started it. I let it
>>>>> run for a while but the clacking continued. I added about 1/3 quart of
>>>>> Marvel Mystery and let it run till warm and the noise never went away.
>>>>> After parking the car for about 2.5 hours, when I started it up the
>>>>> clacking was still there. I drove home still clacking, but quieter.
>>>>>
>>>>> The partiulars: this is the 2.0L 12-vavle engine, OHC, new timing belt
>>>>> <3,000 miles ago, fuel injected. It's going to get parked in 1-3 weeks
>>>>> when I take my Supra out of winter storage. Any ideas about what it is
>>>>> or what I should look for? If I find the Haynes I will be able to
>>>>> answer more questions concerning the motor. It looks good and runs
>>>>> great, even with the clacking.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> I used to have a '90 Mazda B2200 pickup. There was an acknowledged
>>>> problem with the engine in those that the oil ports to the valve
>>>> hydraulics were too small. It started making the noise at startup at
>>>> about 30k miles. Switching it to Mobil 1 5w-30 fixed the problem for
>>>> the remaining 10 years that I owned it.
>>>>
>>>> IIRC thicker oils made the problem worse, and for some reason, that
>>>> engine absolutely hated Castrol synthetic - mileage dropped and it
>>>> would use a quart/1000 miles with Castrol, but never used a drop with
>>>> any other brand of oil.
>>>
>>> I wonder if flushing and refilling with lighter weight oil will prevent
>>> me from having to rip out the Lash Adjusters...
>>>
>> try it. i have no idea what that mystery oil stuff is, but there's a
>> reason motor manufacturers say not to use additives like that...
>
>
> Never tried Marvel Mystery Oil?! I started using it in 1978 on a '78
> Corolla. Engine went about 65,000 miles...then a guy in a Mustang pulled
> right out in front of me!
>
> However, it's replacement went 6 years and 244,000 miles, and IT'S
> replacement went 20 years and 259,000 miles...and more if I ever fix the
> rust...
>
> The 1.8 in the '80 Corolla and the 1.6 in the '85 Corolla GTS both hold 4
> quarts with filter. I put in 3.5 quarts of Castrol GTX 10W-30 or 40, and 1
> quart of MMO. No oil problems at all!
>
> It's a very light oil, red in color and smells a bit funky, but with
> returns like that I'm a believer! It's kind of like ATF. I add it to
> everything now...snowblowers, lawnmowers, etc. When I park my power
> equipment for the summer/winter, I spray a little into the spark plug hole
> to keep the cylinders and valves from rusting.
>
so what's in it? if you don't know, you're out of your mind using it.

and a corolla engine will do 259,000 miles on walmart house brand oil,
let alone gtx. ascribing longevity to something on which you have no
testing, no controls and which is proven unnecessary is quite ridiculous.

Re: a little off for some groups: 1989 Mazda 626 clacking from top of engine
 

On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 20:35:22 -0700, jim beam wrote:

>> It's a very light oil, red in color and smells a bit funky, but with
>> returns like that I'm a believer! It's kind of like ATF. I add it to
>> everything now...snowblowers, lawnmowers, etc. When I park my power
>> equipment for the summer/winter, I spray a little into the spark plug
>> hole to keep the cylinders and valves from rusting.
>>
> so what's in it? if you don't know, you're out of your mind using it.
>
> and a corolla engine will do 259,000 miles on walmart house brand oil, let
> alone gtx. ascribing longevity to something on which you have no testing,
> no controls and which is proven unnecessary is quite ridiculous.


That's OK. It works for me! Last compression check I did, all the
cylinders were between 120-125 PSI. Considering that's what they were in
1991 when the car was six years old, I'd say that's pretty good.

There are a lot of people who use MMO regularly, and most of them are
driving high-mileage vehicles, Japanese or not. (One I know has an '88
Chevy truck with 350,000 miles on it, and has never had to mess with the
engine)

Re: a little off for some groups: 1989 Mazda 626 clacking from top of engine
 

On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 02:27:53 +0000, Hachiroku ãƒ�ãƒ�ãƒã‚¯ wrote:

> I'm crossing this to Honda and Toyota because there are some sharp
> individuals in these groups, and also in the Ford group since this is a
> common engine among Fords, IIRC.
>
> The problem: 1989 Mazda 626. Over the course of the winter, occasionally
> on cold days the engine would clack from just under the valve cover. Since
> I seem to recall seeing somewhere that this engine has hydraulic lifters
> of some sort, it just seemed that allowing the engine to warm and
> circulate oil would cause this to stop as the lifters (or whatever!)
> responded to the rise in oil pressure. It always worked, and when it
> didn't, I would check the oil, add 2/3 3/4 of a quart, and be done with
> it.


Thanks to everyone who responded! Ray O wins the prize: It looks like a
collapsed Hydraulic Lash Adjuster. These look pretty easy to remove and
replace, but I have found a number of resources on the web as to how to
clean them.

Also, I will try the 'lazy man's' way suggested by another poster, ie
adding ATF or Marvel Oil before the next oil change. It was due in 500
more miles anyway, so I'll try 'flushing' it and see what happens. One
method suggests simply sliding the rockers and pulling the HLAs out and
cleaning them, another prescribes removing the rocker cams and arms and a
thorough cleaning. Since the car is so clean, I will probably do this
after I park it for the summer!

Pray for me...(I can be a Gumby at times!)

Re: a little off for some groups: 1989 Mazda 626 clacking from top of engine
 

"Hachiroku ãƒ�ãƒ�ãƒã‚¯" <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote in message

> Pray for me...(I can be a Gumby at times!)

LOL... Welcome to the club...


--
" ya gotta let it out, Captain! " ( Jaime Brockett )

Re: a little off for some groups: 1989 Mazda 626 clacking from top of engine
 

"Hachiroku ????" <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote in message
news:cuRQh.4598$qE2.3700@trndny09...
> On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 02:27:53 +0000, Hachiroku ???? wrote:
>
>> I'm crossing this to Honda and Toyota because there are some sharp
>> individuals in these groups, and also in the Ford group since this is a
>> common engine among Fords, IIRC.
>>
>> The problem: 1989 Mazda 626. Over the course of the winter, occasionally
>> on cold days the engine would clack from just under the valve cover.
>> Since
>> I seem to recall seeing somewhere that this engine has hydraulic lifters
>> of some sort, it just seemed that allowing the engine to warm and
>> circulate oil would cause this to stop as the lifters (or whatever!)
>> responded to the rise in oil pressure. It always worked, and when it
>> didn't, I would check the oil, add 2/3 3/4 of a quart, and be done with
>> it.
>
>
> Thanks to everyone who responded! Ray O wins the prize: It looks like a
> collapsed Hydraulic Lash Adjuster. These look pretty easy to remove and
> replace, but I have found a number of resources on the web as to how to
> clean them.
>
> Also, I will try the 'lazy man's' way suggested by another poster, ie
> adding ATF or Marvel Oil before the next oil change. It was due in 500
> more miles anyway, so I'll try 'flushing' it and see what happens. One
> method suggests simply sliding the rockers and pulling the HLAs out and
> cleaning them, another prescribes removing the rocker cams and arms and a
> thorough cleaning. Since the car is so clean, I will probably do this
> after I park it for the summer!
>
> Pray for me...(I can be a Gumby at times!)
>
If the lifters are easy to pull, let them soak overnight in solvent or
kerosene and re-install.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

Re: a little off for some groups: 1989 Mazda 626 clacking from top of engine
 

On Wed, 04 Apr 2007 17:46:52 +0000, Remove This wrote:

Oh, My God!!!!


> " ya gotta let it out, Captain! " ( Jaime Brockett )


So the Captain, he let it all out at once....

Prone right down on the wheelhouse floor...oh, this brings us up to what's
happenin' again, folks!

The Titanic, she's sailing around in and out between the icebergs;
The _______ people are having parties and trading wives, Cadillacs and
diamonds;
The sail people are hoistin' up landlubbers and battenin' down hatches;
The First Mate's hangin' over the rail havin' himself a little smoke and
diggin' the icebergs;

AND THE CAPTAIN'S OUT COLD ON THE WHEELHOUSE FLOOR!!!!!!!!!


(that last line was my yearbook quote...!)

Re: a little off for some groups: 1989 Mazda 626 clacking from topof engine
 

Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/ wrote:
> On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 20:35:22 -0700, jim beam wrote:
>
>>> It's a very light oil, red in color and smells a bit funky, but with
>>> returns like that I'm a believer! It's kind of like ATF. I add it to
>>> everything now...snowblowers, lawnmowers, etc. When I park my power
>>> equipment for the summer/winter, I spray a little into the spark plug
>>> hole to keep the cylinders and valves from rusting.
>>>
>> so what's in it? if you don't know, you're out of your mind using it.
>>
>> and a corolla engine will do 259,000 miles on walmart house brand oil, let
>> alone gtx. ascribing longevity to something on which you have no testing,
>> no controls and which is proven unnecessary is quite ridiculous.
>
>
> That's OK. It works for me! Last compression check I did, all the
> cylinders were between 120-125 PSI. Considering that's what they were in
> 1991 when the car was six years old, I'd say that's pretty good.
>
> There are a lot of people who use MMO regularly, and most of them are
> driving high-mileage vehicles, Japanese or not. (One I know has an '88
> Chevy truck with 350,000 miles on it, and has never had to mess with the
> engine)
>
>
i'll ask again, do you know what's in it?

now read this:
http://skepdic.com/slick50.html

in your case, excess solvent will /increase/ metal to metal contact. if
you get decent mileage and compression, that's a testament to the
quality of toyota motors and castrol oil, /not/ your massively
over-priced xylene solvent.

Re: a little off for some groups: 1989 Mazda 626 clacking from top of engine
 

On Wed, 04 Apr 2007 20:45:55 -0700, jim beam wrote:

> Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/ wrote:
>> On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 20:35:22 -0700, jim beam wrote:
>>
>>>> It's a very light oil, red in color and smells a bit funky, but with
>>>> returns like that I'm a believer! It's kind of like ATF. I add it to
>>>> everything now...snowblowers, lawnmowers, etc. When I park my power
>>>> equipment for the summer/winter, I spray a little into the spark plug
>>>> hole to keep the cylinders and valves from rusting.
>>>>
>>> so what's in it? if you don't know, you're out of your mind using it.
>>>
>>> and a corolla engine will do 259,000 miles on walmart house brand oil,
>>> let alone gtx. ascribing longevity to something on which you have no
>>> testing, no controls and which is proven unnecessary is quite
>>> ridiculous.
>>
>>
>> That's OK. It works for me! Last compression check I did, all the
>> cylinders were between 120-125 PSI. Considering that's what they were in
>> 1991 when the car was six years old, I'd say that's pretty good.
>>
>> There are a lot of people who use MMO regularly, and most of them are
>> driving high-mileage vehicles, Japanese or not. (One I know has an '88
>> Chevy truck with 350,000 miles on it, and has never had to mess with the
>> engine)
>>
>>
> i'll ask again, do you know what's in it?
>
> now read this:
> http://skepdic.com/slick50.html
>
> in your case, excess solvent will /increase/ metal to metal contact. if
> you get decent mileage and compression, that's a testament to the quality
> of toyota motors and castrol oil, /not/ your massively over-priced xylene
> solvent.


And here's one for you:

http://blog.modernmechanix.com/2006/...l-mystery-oil/

Re: a little off for some groups: 1989 Mazda 626 clacking from topof engine
 

Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/ wrote:
> On Wed, 04 Apr 2007 20:45:55 -0700, jim beam wrote:
>
>> Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/ wrote:
>>> On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 20:35:22 -0700, jim beam wrote:
>>>
>>>>> It's a very light oil, red in color and smells a bit funky, but with
>>>>> returns like that I'm a believer! It's kind of like ATF. I add it to
>>>>> everything now...snowblowers, lawnmowers, etc. When I park my power
>>>>> equipment for the summer/winter, I spray a little into the spark plug
>>>>> hole to keep the cylinders and valves from rusting.
>>>>>
>>>> so what's in it? if you don't know, you're out of your mind using it.
>>>>
>>>> and a corolla engine will do 259,000 miles on walmart house brand oil,
>>>> let alone gtx. ascribing longevity to something on which you have no
>>>> testing, no controls and which is proven unnecessary is quite
>>>> ridiculous.
>>>
>>> That's OK. It works for me! Last compression check I did, all the
>>> cylinders were between 120-125 PSI. Considering that's what they were in
>>> 1991 when the car was six years old, I'd say that's pretty good.
>>>
>>> There are a lot of people who use MMO regularly, and most of them are
>>> driving high-mileage vehicles, Japanese or not. (One I know has an '88
>>> Chevy truck with 350,000 miles on it, and has never had to mess with the
>>> engine)
>>>
>>>
>> i'll ask again, do you know what's in it?
>>
>> now read this:
>> http://skepdic.com/slick50.html
>>
>> in your case, excess solvent will /increase/ metal to metal contact. if
>> you get decent mileage and compression, that's a testament to the quality
>> of toyota motors and castrol oil, /not/ your massively over-priced xylene
>> solvent.
>
>
> And here's one for you:
>
> http://blog.modernmechanix.com/2006/...l-mystery-oil/

am i missing something? how does vintage poster art /not/ make your
over-paying for wear-increasing solvents proof of gullibility?

Re: a little off for some groups: 1989 Mazda 626 clacking from top of engine
 

"Hachiroku ????" <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote in message
news:JYiQh.8917$IY4.8369@trndny03...
> I'm crossing this to Honda and Toyota because there are some sharp
> individuals in these groups, and also in the Ford group since this is a
> common engine among Fords, IIRC.
>
> The problem: 1989 Mazda 626. Over the course of the winter, occasionally
> on cold days the engine would clack from just under the valve cover. Since
> I seem to recall seeing somewhere that this engine has hydraulic lifters
> of some sort, it just seemed that allowing the engine to warm and
> circulate oil would cause this to stop as the lifters (or whatever!)
> responded to the rise in oil pressure. It always worked, and when it
> didn't, I would check the oil, add 2/3 3/4 of a quart, and be done with
> it.
>
> Saturday the oil was down less than 1/4 from the Full on the dipstick.
> Since it's getting an oil change in about 500 miles, I let it go.
>
> This morning I had to make a trip about 30-35 miles one way. When I
> returned home I noticed the engine was making a louder noise than usual,
> and when I went to investigate it was the clacking noise from under the
> Valver Cover. I shut the car off and let it cool.
>
> Before I left the house later, I added 2/3 of a quart of Castrol Synthetic
> (the closest bottle of oil I had) and started it. I let it run for a
> while but the clacking continued. I added about 1/3 quart of Marvel
> Mystery and let it run till warm and the noise never went away. After
> parking the car for about 2.5 hours, when I started it up the clacking was
> still there. I drove home still clacking, but quieter.
>
> The partiulars: this is the 2.0L 12-vavle engine, OHC, new timing belt
> <3,000 miles ago, fuel injected. It's going to get parked in 1-3 weeks
> when I take my Supra out of winter storage. Any ideas about what it is or
> what I should look for? If I find the Haynes I will be able to answer more
> questions concerning the motor. It looks good and runs great, even with
> the clacking.
>
>
>
I don't have much experience with hydraulic lifters, but the one time I had
to replace some I replaced them all. Replacing them isn't without risk,
since the cam lobes were fitted to the originals and now they're pushing a
whole new set, but the buzz was that if one or more were collapsed the
others were in similar shape. I got rid of the car for other reasons a few
months later.

I was advised any attempted repair is temporary. Maybe that would have been
good enough for a few months :-(

Mike

Re: a little off for some groups: 1989 Mazda 626 clacking from topof engine
 

Michael Pardee wrote:
> "Hachiroku ????" <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote in message
> news:JYiQh.8917$IY4.8369@trndny03...
>
>>I'm crossing this to Honda and Toyota because there are some sharp
>>individuals in these groups, and also in the Ford group since this is a
>>common engine among Fords, IIRC.
>>
>>The problem: 1989 Mazda 626. Over the course of the winter, occasionally
>>on cold days the engine would clack from just under the valve cover. Since
>>I seem to recall seeing somewhere that this engine has hydraulic lifters
>>of some sort, it just seemed that allowing the engine to warm and
>>circulate oil would cause this to stop as the lifters (or whatever!)
>>responded to the rise in oil pressure. It always worked, and when it
>>didn't, I would check the oil, add 2/3 3/4 of a quart, and be done with
>>it.
>>
>>Saturday the oil was down less than 1/4 from the Full on the dipstick.
>>Since it's getting an oil change in about 500 miles, I let it go.
>>
>>This morning I had to make a trip about 30-35 miles one way. When I
>>returned home I noticed the engine was making a louder noise than usual,
>>and when I went to investigate it was the clacking noise from under the
>>Valver Cover. I shut the car off and let it cool.
>>
>>Before I left the house later, I added 2/3 of a quart of Castrol Synthetic
>>(the closest bottle of oil I had) and started it. I let it run for a
>>while but the clacking continued. I added about 1/3 quart of Marvel
>>Mystery and let it run till warm and the noise never went away. After
>>parking the car for about 2.5 hours, when I started it up the clacking was
>>still there. I drove home still clacking, but quieter.
>>
>>The partiulars: this is the 2.0L 12-vavle engine, OHC, new timing belt
>><3,000 miles ago, fuel injected. It's going to get parked in 1-3 weeks
>>when I take my Supra out of winter storage. Any ideas about what it is or
>>what I should look for? If I find the Haynes I will be able to answer more
>>questions concerning the motor. It looks good and runs great, even with
>>the clacking.
>>
>>
>>
>
> I don't have much experience with hydraulic lifters, but the one time I had
> to replace some I replaced them all. Replacing them isn't without risk,
> since the cam lobes were fitted to the originals and now they're pushing a
> whole new set, but the buzz was that if one or more were collapsed the
> others were in similar shape. I got rid of the car for other reasons a few
> months later.
>
> I was advised any attempted repair is temporary. Maybe that would have been
> good enough for a few months :-(
>
> Mike
>


I agree. Once a lifter becomes noisy, it's time to bite the bullet and
replace 'em all.

Regarding "fitting to the cam," well that's another issue nowadays since
modern motor oils tend not to support good lubrication of direct
contact engine parts (also due to EPA restrictions). So far, diesel
rated lubricants still have the additives to prevent wear on direct
contact engine components.

Roller lifters available for vintage cars including Honda anyone?

JT

(Who's manual calls for motor oil for the tranny which is also a no-no
these days...)

Re: a little off for some groups: 1989 Mazda 626 clacking from top of engine
 

On Wed, 04 Apr 2007 21:25:59 -0700, jim beam wrote:

>>> now read this:
>>> http://skepdic.com/slick50.html
>>>
>>> in your case, excess solvent will /increase/ metal to metal contact.
>>> if you get decent mileage and compression, that's a testament to the
>>> quality of toyota motors and castrol oil, /not/ your massively
>>> over-priced xylene solvent.
>>
>>
>> And here's one for you:
>>
>> http://blog.modernmechanix.com/2006/...l-mystery-oil/
>
> am i missing something? how does vintage poster art /not/ make your
> over-paying for wear-increasing solvents proof of gullibility?


I just thought you'd like the association with what looks like an Atomic
Bomb...

$2 worth of MMO saved me a lot of aggrevation...
 

On Wed, 04 Apr 2007 20:45:55 -0700, jim beam wrote:

>> There are a lot of people who use MMO regularly, and most of them are
>> driving high-mileage vehicles, Japanese or not. (One I know has an '88
>> Chevy truck with 350,000 miles on it, and has never had to mess with the
>> engine)
>>
>>
> i'll ask again, do you know what's in it?
>
> now read this:
> http://skepdic.com/slick50.html
>
> in your case, excess solvent will /increase/ metal to metal contact. if
> you get decent mileage and compression, that's a testament to the quality
> of toyota motors and castrol oil, /not/ your massively over-priced xylene
> solvent.


I put what I had left of a Qt of MMO in the Mazda...after a 20 minute
drive the clacking was gone. Sure beats ripping the Valve Cover off,
taking out the rocker shafts and replacing the HLA's!

Re: $2 worth of MMO saved me a lot of aggrevation...
 

"Hachiroku ????" <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote in message
news:54dRh.6888$iw5.1098@trndny06...

>
> I put what I had left of a Qt of MMO in the Mazda...after a 20 minute
> drive the clacking was gone. Sure beats ripping the Valve Cover off,
> taking out the rocker shafts and replacing the HLA's!
>
>
>

I suspect it's a temporary fix, that wear will cause the problem to return.
Sometimes a few months' reprieve is a very useful thing. If you are far from
home on vacation or in the middle of rotten temperatures it is mighty
attractive.

I don't know how Marvel Mystery Oil changes the operation of oil for
bearings and such though.

Mike

Re: a little off for some groups: 1989 Mazda 626 clacking from top of engine
 

On Wed, 04 Apr 2007 21:32:23 -0700, Michael Pardee wrote:

> "Hachiroku ????" <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote in message
> news:JYiQh.8917$IY4.8369@trndny03...
>> I'm crossing this to Honda and Toyota because there are some sharp
>> individuals in these groups, and also in the Ford group since this is a
>> common engine among Fords, IIRC.
>>
>> The problem: 1989 Mazda 626. Over the course of the winter, occasionally
>> on cold days the engine would clack from just under the valve cover.
>> Since I seem to recall seeing somewhere that this engine has hydraulic
>> lifters of some sort, it just seemed that allowing the engine to warm
>> and circulate oil would cause this to stop as the lifters (or whatever!)
>> responded to the rise in oil pressure. It always worked, and when it
>> didn't, I would check the oil, add 2/3 3/4 of a quart, and be done with
>> it.
>>
>> Saturday the oil was down less than 1/4 from the Full on the dipstick.
>> Since it's getting an oil change in about 500 miles, I let it go.
>>
>> This morning I had to make a trip about 30-35 miles one way. When I
>> returned home I noticed the engine was making a louder noise than usual,
>> and when I went to investigate it was the clacking noise from under the
>> Valver Cover. I shut the car off and let it cool.
>>
>> Before I left the house later, I added 2/3 of a quart of Castrol
>> Synthetic (the closest bottle of oil I had) and started it. I let it run
>> for a while but the clacking continued. I added about 1/3 quart of
>> Marvel Mystery and let it run till warm and the noise never went away.
>> After parking the car for about 2.5 hours, when I started it up the
>> clacking was still there. I drove home still clacking, but quieter.
>>
>> The partiulars: this is the 2.0L 12-vavle engine, OHC, new timing belt
>> <3,000 miles ago, fuel injected. It's going to get parked in 1-3 weeks
>> when I take my Supra out of winter storage. Any ideas about what it is
>> or what I should look for? If I find the Haynes I will be able to answer
>> more questions concerning the motor. It looks good and runs great, even
>> with the clacking.
>>
>>
>>
> I don't have much experience with hydraulic lifters, but the one time I
> had to replace some I replaced them all. Replacing them isn't without
> risk, since the cam lobes were fitted to the originals and now they're
> pushing a whole new set, but the buzz was that if one or more were
> collapsed the others were in similar shape. I got rid of the car for other
> reasons a few months later.
>
> I was advised any attempted repair is temporary. Maybe that would have
> been good enough for a few months :-(
>
> Mike


Hmmm...excuse me if I seem a bit ignorant here. What this car has is
Hydraulic Lash Adjusters (HLAs). It is at the end of the rocker and pushes
the shims over the valves down to open the valves. (Um, what's the
difference between this and a hydraulic lifter...?)

You can replace them without removing the rocker shafts, but I have seen a
couple write ups that say they don't go bad for no reason, and the reason
is usually that the holes that feed the oil to the HLAs are plugged. So,
it is possible to clean the HLAs and the holes feeding them oil.

I guess I'll investigate when I park the Mazda and put the Supra on the
road...!

Re: $2 worth of MMO saved me a lot of aggrevation...
 

On Thu, 05 Apr 2007 15:13:10 -0700, Michael Pardee wrote:

>
> "Hachiroku ????" <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote in message
> news:54dRh.6888$iw5.1098@trndny06...
>
>
>> I put what I had left of a Qt of MMO in the Mazda...after a 20 minute
>> drive the clacking was gone. Sure beats ripping the Valve Cover off,
>> taking out the rocker shafts and replacing the HLA's!
>>
>>
>>
>>
> I suspect it's a temporary fix, that wear will cause the problem to
> return. Sometimes a few months' reprieve is a very useful thing. If you
> are far from home on vacation or in the middle of rotten temperatures it
> is mighty attractive.
>
> I don't know how Marvel Mystery Oil changes the operation of oil for
> bearings and such though.
>
> Mike


Me either, but I've had a couple of high mileage engines using Castrol and
MMO mixed.

As long as it lasts until I get the Supra on the road and the Mazda
parked, I'll open the valve cover and have a look. It doesn't look all
that tough.

I have heard of this (MMO or ATF) solving the problem long term, though.

Re: $2 worth of MMO saved me a lot of aggrevation...
 

Michael Pardee wrote:
> "Hachiroku ????" <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote in message
> news:54dRh.6888$iw5.1098@trndny06...
>
>
>>I put what I had left of a Qt of MMO in the Mazda...after a 20 minute
>>drive the clacking was gone. Sure beats ripping the Valve Cover off,
>>taking out the rocker shafts and replacing the HLA's!
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> I suspect it's a temporary fix, that wear will cause the problem to return.
> Sometimes a few months' reprieve is a very useful thing. If you are far from
> home on vacation or in the middle of rotten temperatures it is mighty
> attractive.
>
> I don't know how Marvel Mystery Oil changes the operation of oil for
> bearings and such though.
>
> Mike
>


I never heard anything negative about MMO in the forty-five years that
I've been "tinkering" with cars. Makes a hell of an "oil can" squirter
lubricant too..

JT

Re: $2 worth of MMO saved me a lot of aggrevation...
 

Hachiroku ãƒ�ãƒ�ãƒã‚¯ wrote:

> On Thu, 05 Apr 2007 15:13:10 -0700, Michael Pardee wrote:
>
>
>>"Hachiroku ????" <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote in message
>>news:54dRh.6888$iw5.1098@trndny06...
>>
>>
>>
>>>I put what I had left of a Qt of MMO in the Mazda...after a 20 minute
>>>drive the clacking was gone. Sure beats ripping the Valve Cover off,
>>>taking out the rocker shafts and replacing the HLA's!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>I suspect it's a temporary fix, that wear will cause the problem to
>>return. Sometimes a few months' reprieve is a very useful thing. If you
>>are far from home on vacation or in the middle of rotten temperatures it
>>is mighty attractive.
>>
>>I don't know how Marvel Mystery Oil changes the operation of oil for
>>bearings and such though.
>>
>>Mike
>
>
>
> Me either, but I've had a couple of high mileage engines using Castrol and
> MMO mixed.
>
> As long as it lasts until I get the Supra on the road and the Mazda
> parked, I'll open the valve cover and have a look. It doesn't look all
> that tough.
>
> I have heard of this (MMO or ATF) solving the problem long term, though.
>


If a lifter begins to make noise, two possibilities are lack of oil
pressure (unlikely) or excessive wear of the component itself (likely)

Plan on replacing 'em all.

JT

(Who owns nothing with hydraulic lifters!)

Re: $2 worth of MMO saved me a lot of aggrevation...
 

On Fri, 06 Apr 2007 00:55:06 +0000, Grumpy AuContraire wrote:

>
>
> Hachiroku ãƒ�ãƒ�ãƒã‚¯ wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 05 Apr 2007 15:13:10 -0700, Michael Pardee wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"Hachiroku ????" <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote in message
>>>news:54dRh.6888$iw5.1098@trndny06...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>I put what I had left of a Qt of MMO in the Mazda...after a 20 minute
>>>>drive the clacking was gone. Sure beats ripping the Valve Cover off,
>>>>taking out the rocker shafts and replacing the HLA's!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>I suspect it's a temporary fix, that wear will cause the problem to
>>>return. Sometimes a few months' reprieve is a very useful thing. If you
>>>are far from home on vacation or in the middle of rotten temperatures it
>>>is mighty attractive.
>>>
>>>I don't know how Marvel Mystery Oil changes the operation of oil for
>>>bearings and such though.
>>>
>>>Mike
>>
>>
>>
>> Me either, but I've had a couple of high mileage engines using Castrol
>> and MMO mixed.
>>
>> As long as it lasts until I get the Supra on the road and the Mazda
>> parked, I'll open the valve cover and have a look. It doesn't look all
>> that tough.
>>
>> I have heard of this (MMO or ATF) solving the problem long term, though.
>>
>>
>
> If a lifter begins to make noise, two possibilities are lack of oil
> pressure (unlikely) or excessive wear of the component itself (likely)
>
> Plan on replacing 'em all.
>
> JT
>
> (Who owns nothing with hydraulic lifters!)


It's not really a 'lifter', as I think I understand the term.

The car has an OHC, 3 valves per cylinder. They are actuated by rockers,
and at the end of each rocker is an HLA (Hydraulic Lash Adjuster). I guess
it's supposed to eliminate the need to adjust the valves by expanding or
'deflating' with oil to take up the slack. It seems they collect gunk, as
do the holes providing the oil.

It seems the MMO added to the oil has taken care of this for now. They
look fairly easy to replace. Once it comes off the road for the summer.

Re: $2 worth of MMO saved me a lot of aggrevation...
 

"Hachiroku ????" <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote in message
news:f7iRh.7565$iw5.2250@trndny06...
>
> It's not really a 'lifter', as I think I understand the term.
>
> The car has an OHC, 3 valves per cylinder. They are actuated by rockers,
> and at the end of each rocker is an HLA (Hydraulic Lash Adjuster). I guess
> it's supposed to eliminate the need to adjust the valves by expanding or
> 'deflating' with oil to take up the slack. It seems they collect gunk, as
> do the holes providing the oil.
>
Sounds like the same operation as a hydraulic lifter, but located on the
other end of the rocker arm. Lifters deflate in pretty much the same way,
but I don't know if it is usually that they stick "down" or if they leak too
badly to work.

Your plan to tackle it when more convenient sounds good to me. At least a
collapsed HLA (almost wrote "lifter") won't strand you anywhere.

Mike

Re: $2 worth of MMO saved me a lot of aggrevation...
 

In article <TPgRh.251497$5j1.86898@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
Grumpy@ExtraGrumpyville.com says...
>
>
> Michael Pardee wrote:
> > "Hachiroku ????" <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote in message
> > news:54dRh.6888$iw5.1098@trndny06...
> >
> >
> >>I put what I had left of a Qt of MMO in the Mazda...after a 20 minute
> >>drive the clacking was gone. Sure beats ripping the Valve Cover off,
> >>taking out the rocker shafts and replacing the HLA's!
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > I suspect it's a temporary fix, that wear will cause the problem to return.
> > Sometimes a few months' reprieve is a very useful thing. If you are far from
> > home on vacation or in the middle of rotten temperatures it is mighty
> > attractive.
> >
> > I don't know how Marvel Mystery Oil changes the operation of oil for
> > bearings and such though.
> >
> > Mike
> >
>
>
> I never heard anything negative about MMO in the forty-five years that
> I've been "tinkering" with cars. Makes a hell of an "oil can" squirter
> lubricant too..
>
> JT
>
Marvel Mystery Oil

Manufacturer Name THE MARVEL OIL COMPANY, INC
Street 5655 W 73RD STREET
City CHICAGO
State IL
Country US
Zip Code 60638
Emergency Phone 708-563-3766
Information Phone 708-563-3766

Ingredient # 01
Ingredient Name BENZENE, 1,2-DICHLORO-
CAS Number 95501
Percent 0
Ingredient # 02
Ingredient Name MINERAL SPIRITS
CAS Number 8052413
Percent 0
Ingredient # 03
Ingredient Name NAPTHENIC HYDROCARBONS
CAS Number 64742525
Percent 0

I got the above info from here:

http://www.setonresourcecenter.com/m...3/wcd04377.htm
--
I. Care
Address fake until the SPAM goes away ;-}

Re: $2 worth of MMO saved me a lot of aggrevation...
 

On Thu, 05 Apr 2007 19:49:16 -0700, I.Care wrote:

> In article <TPgRh.251497$5j1.86898@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
> Grumpy@ExtraGrumpyville.com says...
>>
>>
>> Michael Pardee wrote:
>> > "Hachiroku ????" <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote in message
>> > news:54dRh.6888$iw5.1098@trndny06...
>> >
>> >
>> >>I put what I had left of a Qt of MMO in the Mazda...after a 20 minute
>> >>drive the clacking was gone. Sure beats ripping the Valve Cover off,
>> >>taking out the rocker shafts and replacing the HLA's!
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> > I suspect it's a temporary fix, that wear will cause the problem to
>> > return. Sometimes a few months' reprieve is a very useful thing. If
>> > you are far from home on vacation or in the middle of rotten
>> > temperatures it is mighty attractive.
>> >
>> > I don't know how Marvel Mystery Oil changes the operation of oil for
>> > bearings and such though.
>> >
>> > Mike
>> >
>> >
>>
>> I never heard anything negative about MMO in the forty-five years that
>> I've been "tinkering" with cars. Makes a hell of an "oil can" squirter
>> lubricant too..
>>
>> JT
>>
> Marvel Mystery Oil
>
> Manufacturer Name THE MARVEL OIL COMPANY, INC
> Street 5655 W 73RD STREET City
> CHICAGO State
> IL Country US Zip Code
> 60638 Emergency Phone
> 708-563-3766 Information Phone 708-563-3766
>
> Ingredient # 01 Ingredient Name
> BENZENE, 1,2-DICHLORO- CAS Number
> 95501 Percent 0 Ingredient #
> 02 Ingredient Name MINERAL
> SPIRITS CAS Number 8052413 Percent
> 0 Ingredient # 03
> Ingredient Name NAPTHENIC HYDROCARBONS CAS
> Number 64742525 Percent
> 0
>
> I got the above info from here:
>
> http://www.setonresourcecenter.com/m...3/wcd04377.htm


Interesting...BENZENE?!?!?!

Re: $2 worth of MMO saved me a lot of aggrevation...
 

I. Care wrote:
> In article <TPgRh.251497$5j1.86898@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
> Grumpy@ExtraGrumpyville.com says...
>>
>> Michael Pardee wrote:
>>> "Hachiroku ????" <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote in message
>>> news:54dRh.6888$iw5.1098@trndny06...
>>>
>>>
>>>> I put what I had left of a Qt of MMO in the Mazda...after a 20 minute
>>>> drive the clacking was gone. Sure beats ripping the Valve Cover off,
>>>> taking out the rocker shafts and replacing the HLA's!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> I suspect it's a temporary fix, that wear will cause the problem to return.
>>> Sometimes a few months' reprieve is a very useful thing. If you are far from
>>> home on vacation or in the middle of rotten temperatures it is mighty
>>> attractive.
>>>
>>> I don't know how Marvel Mystery Oil changes the operation of oil for
>>> bearings and such though.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>
>> I never heard anything negative about MMO in the forty-five years that
>> I've been "tinkering" with cars. Makes a hell of an "oil can" squirter
>> lubricant too..
>>
>> JT
>>
> Marvel Mystery Oil
>
> Manufacturer Name THE MARVEL OIL COMPANY, INC
> Street 5655 W 73RD STREET
> City CHICAGO
> State IL
> Country US
> Zip Code 60638
> Emergency Phone 708-563-3766
> Information Phone 708-563-3766
>
> Ingredient # 01
> Ingredient Name BENZENE, 1,2-DICHLORO-
> CAS Number 95501
> Percent 0
> Ingredient # 02
> Ingredient Name MINERAL SPIRITS
> CAS Number 8052413
> Percent 0
> Ingredient # 03
> Ingredient Name NAPTHENIC HYDROCARBONS
> CAS Number 64742525
> Percent 0
>
> I got the above info from here:
>
> http://www.setonresourcecenter.com/m...3/wcd04377.htm

good on you! i have a really strong opinion on anything related to oil
sales and the total lack of labeling thereof. it's all to deceive the
consumer. manufacturers all know what their competition is using - they
have labs. consumers don't, and this information vacuum is the void
into which garbage is sold. msds info like you've dug up /is/
available, but it's not exactly front and center, and even then, there's
get-outs for "proprietary" contents. the whole machine is a scam.

i say:
1. label all products, just like food and shampoo.

and while we're at it:
2. make publication of the calorie content of gasoline mandatory.
alcohol content is mandatory on beverages, calorie content is published
for natural gas. same principles should apply to gasoline.

Re: a little off for some groups: 1989 Mazda 626 clacking from topof engine
 

Grumpy AuContraire wrote:
>
>
> Michael Pardee wrote:
>> "Hachiroku ????" <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote in message
>> news:JYiQh.8917$IY4.8369@trndny03...
>>
>>> I'm crossing this to Honda and Toyota because there are some sharp
>>> individuals in these groups, and also in the Ford group since this is a
>>> common engine among Fords, IIRC.
>>>
>>> The problem: 1989 Mazda 626. Over the course of the winter, occasionally
>>> on cold days the engine would clack from just under the valve cover.
>>> Since
>>> I seem to recall seeing somewhere that this engine has hydraulic lifters
>>> of some sort, it just seemed that allowing the engine to warm and
>>> circulate oil would cause this to stop as the lifters (or whatever!)
>>> responded to the rise in oil pressure. It always worked, and when it
>>> didn't, I would check the oil, add 2/3 3/4 of a quart, and be done
>>> with it.
>>>
>>> Saturday the oil was down less than 1/4 from the Full on the dipstick.
>>> Since it's getting an oil change in about 500 miles, I let it go.
>>>
>>> This morning I had to make a trip about 30-35 miles one way. When I
>>> returned home I noticed the engine was making a louder noise than usual,
>>> and when I went to investigate it was the clacking noise from under the
>>> Valver Cover. I shut the car off and let it cool.
>>>
>>> Before I left the house later, I added 2/3 of a quart of Castrol
>>> Synthetic
>>> (the closest bottle of oil I had) and started it. I let it run for a
>>> while but the clacking continued. I added about 1/3 quart of Marvel
>>> Mystery and let it run till warm and the noise never went away. After
>>> parking the car for about 2.5 hours, when I started it up the
>>> clacking was
>>> still there. I drove home still clacking, but quieter.
>>>
>>> The partiulars: this is the 2.0L 12-vavle engine, OHC, new timing belt
>>> <3,000 miles ago, fuel injected. It's going to get parked in 1-3 weeks
>>> when I take my Supra out of winter storage. Any ideas about what it
>>> is or
>>> what I should look for? If I find the Haynes I will be able to answer
>>> more
>>> questions concerning the motor. It looks good and runs great, even with
>>> the clacking.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I don't have much experience with hydraulic lifters, but the one time
>> I had to replace some I replaced them all. Replacing them isn't
>> without risk, since the cam lobes were fitted to the originals and now
>> they're pushing a whole new set, but the buzz was that if one or more
>> were collapsed the others were in similar shape. I got rid of the car
>> for other reasons a few months later.
>>
>> I was advised any attempted repair is temporary. Maybe that would have
>> been good enough for a few months :-(
>>
>> Mike
>
>
> I agree. Once a lifter becomes noisy, it's time to bite the bullet and
> replace 'em all.
>
> Regarding "fitting to the cam," well that's another issue nowadays since
> modern motor oils tend not to support good lubrication of direct
> contact engine parts (also due to EPA restrictions).

really? where's you get that information from?

> So far, diesel
> rated lubricants still have the additives to prevent wear on direct
> contact engine components.

why diesel lubes? what's the composition difference?

>
> Roller lifters available for vintage cars including Honda anyone?
>
> JT
>
> (Who's manual calls for motor oil for the tranny which is also a no-no
> these days...)

Re: a little off for some groups: 1989 Mazda 626 clacking from topof engine
 

jim beam wrote:
> Grumpy AuContraire wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Michael Pardee wrote:
>>
>>> "Hachiroku ????" <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote in message
>>> news:JYiQh.8917$IY4.8369@trndny03...
>>>
>>>> I'm crossing this to Honda and Toyota because there are some sharp
>>>> individuals in these groups, and also in the Ford group since this is a
>>>> common engine among Fords, IIRC.
>>>>
>>>> The problem: 1989 Mazda 626. Over the course of the winter,
>>>> occasionally
>>>> on cold days the engine would clack from just under the valve cover.
>>>> Since
>>>> I seem to recall seeing somewhere that this engine has hydraulic
>>>> lifters
>>>> of some sort, it just seemed that allowing the engine to warm and
>>>> circulate oil would cause this to stop as the lifters (or whatever!)
>>>> responded to the rise in oil pressure. It always worked, and when it
>>>> didn't, I would check the oil, add 2/3 3/4 of a quart, and be done
>>>> with it.
>>>>
>>>> Saturday the oil was down less than 1/4 from the Full on the dipstick.
>>>> Since it's getting an oil change in about 500 miles, I let it go.
>>>>
>>>> This morning I had to make a trip about 30-35 miles one way. When I
>>>> returned home I noticed the engine was making a louder noise than
>>>> usual,
>>>> and when I went to investigate it was the clacking noise from under the
>>>> Valver Cover. I shut the car off and let it cool.
>>>>
>>>> Before I left the house later, I added 2/3 of a quart of Castrol
>>>> Synthetic
>>>> (the closest bottle of oil I had) and started it. I let it run for a
>>>> while but the clacking continued. I added about 1/3 quart of Marvel
>>>> Mystery and let it run till warm and the noise never went away. After
>>>> parking the car for about 2.5 hours, when I started it up the
>>>> clacking was
>>>> still there. I drove home still clacking, but quieter.
>>>>
>>>> The partiulars: this is the 2.0L 12-vavle engine, OHC, new timing belt
>>>> <3,000 miles ago, fuel injected. It's going to get parked in 1-3 weeks
>>>> when I take my Supra out of winter storage. Any ideas about what it
>>>> is or
>>>> what I should look for? If I find the Haynes I will be able to
>>>> answer more
>>>> questions concerning the motor. It looks good and runs great, even with
>>>> the clacking.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> I don't have much experience with hydraulic lifters, but the one time
>>> I had to replace some I replaced them all. Replacing them isn't
>>> without risk, since the cam lobes were fitted to the originals and
>>> now they're pushing a whole new set, but the buzz was that if one or
>>> more were collapsed the others were in similar shape. I got rid of
>>> the car for other reasons a few months later.
>>>
>>> I was advised any attempted repair is temporary. Maybe that would
>>> have been good enough for a few months :-(
>>>
>>> Mike
>>
>>
>>
>> I agree. Once a lifter becomes noisy, it's time to bite the bullet
>> and replace 'em all.
>>
>> Regarding "fitting to the cam," well that's another issue nowadays
>> since modern motor oils tend not to support good lubrication of
>> direct contact engine parts (also due to EPA restrictions).
>
>
> really? where's you get that information from?
>
>> So far, diesel rated lubricants still have the additives to prevent
>> wear on direct contact engine components.
>
>
> why diesel lubes? what's the composition difference?
>


We went through this a few months ago. I'm much too lazy to do it again.

JT

Re: $2 worth of MMO saved me a lot of aggrevation...
 

On Thu, 05 Apr 2007 19:30:40 -0700, Michael Pardee wrote:

> "Hachiroku ????" <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote in message
> news:f7iRh.7565$iw5.2250@trndny06...
>>
>> It's not really a 'lifter', as I think I understand the term.
>>
>> The car has an OHC, 3 valves per cylinder. They are actuated by rockers,
>> and at the end of each rocker is an HLA (Hydraulic Lash Adjuster). I
>> guess it's supposed to eliminate the need to adjust the valves by
>> expanding or 'deflating' with oil to take up the slack. It seems they
>> collect gunk, as do the holes providing the oil.
>>
> Sounds like the same operation as a hydraulic lifter, but located on the
> other end of the rocker arm. Lifters deflate in pretty much the same way,
> but I don't know if it is usually that they stick "down" or if they leak
> too badly to work.
>
> Your plan to tackle it when more convenient sounds good to me. At least a
> collapsed HLA (almost wrote "lifter") won't strand you anywhere.
>
> Mike


Well, once it fianally STOPS snowing I'll pull of the valve cover and have
a look. I have a Supra I use in the summer, the Mazda's a winter beater.
When the Supra goes on the road I plan on giving the Mazda a better going
over than I did in December when I bought it. But the forecast is for more
snow this week.

And the funny thing is, I drove it about 20 miles yesterday, no problem.
This afternoon it fired up just fine, I drove it about 7 miles and the
ticking came back. I stopped for a cup of coffee, and the next three times
I started it, it ran fine.

So, I guess the cover comes off in the (real) spring...

Re: $2 worth of MMO saved me a lot of aggrevation...
 

"Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote in message
news:F7GdnVh1tbIU6YjbnZ2dnUVZ_sapnZ2d@sedona.net.. .
>
> "Hachiroku ????" <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote in message
> news:54dRh.6888$iw5.1098@trndny06...
>
>>
>> I put what I had left of a Qt of MMO in the Mazda...after a 20 minute
>> drive the clacking was gone. Sure beats ripping the Valve Cover off,
>> taking out the rocker shafts and replacing the HLA's!
>>
>>
>>
>
> I suspect it's a temporary fix, that wear will cause the problem to
> return. Sometimes a few months' reprieve is a very useful thing. If you
> are far from home on vacation or in the middle of rotten temperatures it
> is mighty attractive.
>
> I don't know how Marvel Mystery Oil changes the operation of oil for
> bearings and such though.
>
> Mike

I did a little research on this Mike.

" On the other side of the engine block are those additives which will
cleanse your engine, not coat it. Stuff like Bardahl, Rislone and Marvel
Mystery Oil claim they can make your engine run quieter and smoother, and
reduce oil burning. These are products which contain solvents or detergents
such as kerosene, naphthalene, xylene, acetone or isopropanol. If used
properly, I suppose these products will strip off your Teflon and zinc
protective coatings! But unless you have a really old and abused car, you
probably have no need of stripping away sludge and deposits from your
engine. Thus, you probably have no need for these wonder cleaners. If you
overuse such products you can damage your engine by promoting metal to metal
contact".

This came from the following site: http://skepdic.com/slick50.html. I
couldn't find much about the contents but I would conclude that it is a
petroleum distillate solvent that removes sludge, dirt, and other corruption
thereby enhancing the oil flow but I can't prove such. I would say it is a
temporary fix for an engine that has been neglected over time...

DaveD


>
>
>