Kruse

On Sep 30, 8:29 pm, dsi1 <d...@humuhumunukunukuapuapa.org> wrote:

> Too bad the car had a well deserved reputation as an oil burner - and I
> don't mean diesel. As I recall, the valve stem seals were no good.
>
> OTOH, an all-alloy engine block is a pretty exotic feature even today


That car had more problems than just valve stem seals. The aftermarket
"cure" for this car was to re-sleeve it.
After that, the engine was actually pretty good from an economic point
of view.
If they had stuck with the 4 cylinder motor that had been used in the
Chevy II, history would have said that
the Vega would have been an excellent econo box.

Gordon McGrew

On Wed, 30 Sep 2009 18:46:39 -0700 (PDT), Kruse <kruse@kansas.net>
wrote:

>On Sep 30, 8:29 pm, dsi1 <d...@humuhumunukunukuapuapa.org> wrote:
>
>> Too bad the car had a well deserved reputation as an oil burner - and I
>> don't mean diesel. As I recall, the valve stem seals were no good.
>>
>> OTOH, an all-alloy engine block is a pretty exotic feature even today
>
>
>That car had more problems than just valve stem seals. The aftermarket
>"cure" for this car was to re-sleeve it.
>After that, the engine was actually pretty good from an economic point
>of view.
>If they had stuck with the 4 cylinder motor that had been used in the
>Chevy II, history would have said that
>the Vega would have been an excellent econo box.

They also had a reputation for rusting out on the way home from the
dealer. Besides that, they were a typical GM car of the 1970s, which
is to say not very good and really awful by today's standards.

dsi1

Kruse wrote:
> On Sep 30, 8:29 pm, dsi1 <d...@humuhumunukunukuapuapa.org> wrote:
>
>> Too bad the car had a well deserved reputation as an oil burner - and I
>> don't mean diesel. As I recall, the valve stem seals were no good.
>>
>> OTOH, an all-alloy engine block is a pretty exotic feature even today
>
>
> That car had more problems than just valve stem seals. The aftermarket
> "cure" for this car was to re-sleeve it.
> After that, the engine was actually pretty good from an economic point
> of view.
> If they had stuck with the 4 cylinder motor that had been used in the
> Chevy II, history would have said that
> the Vega would have been an excellent econo box.

I assume that you'd need special cutters to rebore the cylinder walls
and perhaps a lot of shops didn't understand the wall finishing process.

Oh well, my guess is that the time for sleeveless alloy blocks in cars
has come and gone. It's likely that soon we won't be using pistons and
cylinders.

Tim Wescott

On Wed, 30 Sep 2009 09:46:20 -0700, Otis wrote:

> Over the years, the inevitable subject of worst cars ever comes up, and
> the Vega
> is always at or near the top of the list. I've seen it a hundred times.
> I feel I should
> put in a good word for the little car.
>
> My sister got a new Vega in early 1973 (a stripped-down one at that,
> about as basic
> as was available). I then inherited it in late '74 and drove it merrily
> for another full
> year. That little car was never ONE ounce of trouble. It cruised at
> 75 mph like
> a charm, never burped or coughed, and I actually don't know that the oil
> was
> ever changed!!!! Maybe the car was serviced when my sister had it, but
> I know
> it wasn't during the time I had it (young and car stupid I guess). When
> I traded it in for my dream car at the time (the dreamy '75 Toyota
> Celica GT),
> it had about 42k miles on it and still performed like a trooper. Maybe
> it
> was a rare gem off the assembly line I don't know, but I had three
> friends
> who also had Vegas and I don't remember any of them being lemons; one
> did have notoriously squeally brakes though IIRC.

I still have mine ('71 Kammback), although it's been waiting for over ten
years for it's engine transplant.

Great looking car. Good basic design. Pile-o-crap execution.

If anyone asks you the difference between "inexpensive" and "cheap", just
park a VW Bug next to a Vega and give them a quick tour of the essential
differences.

For that matter, if anyone asks you why GM went down the tubes, just park
a Vega next to something just off the assembly line and start pointing
out the essential similarities...

--
www.wescottdesign.com

Jim Yanik

dsi1 <dsi1@humuhumunukunukuapuapa.org> wrote in
news:RmUwm.224081$cf6.195365@newsfe16.iad:

> Kruse wrote:
>> On Sep 30, 8:29 pm, dsi1 <d...@humuhumunukunukuapuapa.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Too bad the car had a well deserved reputation as an oil burner - and I
>>> don't mean diesel. As I recall, the valve stem seals were no good.
>>>
>>> OTOH, an all-alloy engine block is a pretty exotic feature even today
>>
>>
>> That car had more problems than just valve stem seals. The aftermarket
>> "cure" for this car was to re-sleeve it.
>> After that, the engine was actually pretty good from an economic point
>> of view.
>> If they had stuck with the 4 cylinder motor that had been used in the
>> Chevy II, history would have said that
>> the Vega would have been an excellent econo box.
>
> I assume that you'd need special cutters to rebore the cylinder walls
> and perhaps a lot of shops didn't understand the wall finishing process.
>
> Oh well, my guess is that the time for sleeveless alloy blocks in cars
> has come and gone. It's likely that soon we won't be using pistons and
> cylinders.
>

on HONDA matters...;

I used to own a 90 Prelude SI (not the 2.0SI)that had the all-aluminum
engine with the silicon/aluminum bore.It was a great car until two
hailstorms ruined it.Traded it in for a 94 Integra GS-R.(which got
stolen,stripped,and torched in 2007...)

I believe that many Hondas have gone over 200K miles without needing their
cylinder walls rebored.

Until electrics get their range and recharge time issues solved,internal
combustion motors will be the major motivator for autos.
(unless Obama gets his wishes for energy prices...)

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
..com

SMS

Otis wrote:
> Over the years, the inevitable subject of worst cars ever comes up,
> and the Vega
> is always at or near the top of the list. I've seen it a hundred
> times. I feel I should
> put in a good word for the little car.

I remember my step-father deciding to get a Vega over a VW Beetle. I
think it was in 1972. The Vega lasted two years before it was rusted
beyond repair. I remember reading a joke somewhere that said that it was
actually constructed out of compressed rust.

At least during the two years it lasted there was no engine trouble.

Stewart

"Otis" <rev_otis_mcnatt@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1f20ce7d-cd39-4208-920c-08032814acbb@37g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
> Over the years, the inevitable subject of worst cars ever comes up,
> and the Vega
> is always at or near the top of the list. I've seen it a hundred
> times. I feel I should
> put in a good word for the little car.
>
> My sister got a new Vega in early 1973 (a stripped-down one at that,
> about as basic
> as was available). I then inherited it in late '74 and drove it
> merrily for another full
> year. That little car was never ONE ounce of trouble. It cruised
> at
> 75 mph like
> a charm, never burped or coughed, and I actually don't know that the
> oil was
> ever changed!!!! Maybe the car was serviced when my sister had it,
> but I know
> it wasn't during the time I had it (young and car stupid I guess).
> When
> I traded it in for my dream car at the time (the dreamy '75 Toyota
> Celica GT),
> it had about 42k miles on it and still performed like a trooper.
> Maybe it
> was a rare gem off the assembly line I don't know, but I had three
> friends
> who also had Vegas and I don't remember any of them being lemons;
> one
> did have notoriously squeally brakes though IIRC.


I've had good luck with 60's Ramblers. '63 Classic, and a
'66....great cars, and the front seat folded down to the rear
seat......perfect.

My brother now has 5 of them, all on good running condition...

'60 Classic (flat head 6), '65 Marlin, '67 Ambassador Convertible
(with an AMC 327), '65 Classic Wagon....hmm, I can't recall the last
one at this senior moment.

hls

"dsi1" <dsi1@humuhumunukunukuapuapa.org> wrote in message
>> Fiat is a bit of a joke, even in Europe. I lived there for many many
>> years.
>
> I'm guessing it's partially because they're such a big force in Europe,
> the same as GM is in the states.

You would be very wrong... In Europe, many people buy for quality,
or at least perceived quality. Fiat and Lancia suck in this perception
outside of Italia. People outside Italy buy Fiat largely on price.

The quality has improved, but years of rustbucket shitteaux Fiats
still leave a lot of buyers cold.

Many Europeans will not buy a British version of a car (such as GM or
Ford), preferring the German versions. The British have bragged
about quality for years, but sucked.

hls

"dsi1" <dsi1@humuhumunukunukuapuapa.org> wrote in message
>
> I assume that you'd need special cutters to rebore the cylinder walls
> and perhaps a lot of shops didn't understand the wall finishing process.
>
> Oh well, my guess is that the time for sleeveless alloy blocks in cars
> has come and gone. It's likely that soon we won't be using pistons and
> cylinders.

You are right... Only the Sunnen hone treatment could hope to return
one of those shitty engine cylinders to hopefully useable conditions. They
burnished the aluminum away from the granules of silicon (simply put)
in the original process. Sleeving may have worked.. I dont know.

These were truly putzes of an engine.

Mercedes Benz currently uses aluminum alloys that are somewhat similar.

These blocks can only be machined in a few places in the USA (and the
only one I know of is on the West Coast). Last count, it cost $3500 to
machine and refinish a Mercedes block of this type.

Nate Nagel

hls wrote:
>
> "dsi1" <dsi1@humuhumunukunukuapuapa.org> wrote in message
>>
>> I assume that you'd need special cutters to rebore the cylinder walls
>> and perhaps a lot of shops didn't understand the wall finishing process.
>>
>> Oh well, my guess is that the time for sleeveless alloy blocks in cars
>> has come and gone. It's likely that soon we won't be using pistons and
>> cylinders.
>
> You are right... Only the Sunnen hone treatment could hope to return
> one of those shitty engine cylinders to hopefully useable conditions. They
> burnished the aluminum away from the granules of silicon (simply put)
> in the original process. Sleeving may have worked.. I dont know.
>
> These were truly putzes of an engine.
>
> Mercedes Benz currently uses aluminum alloys that are somewhat similar.
>
> These blocks can only be machined in a few places in the USA (and the
> only one I know of is on the West Coast). Last count, it cost $3500 to
> machine and refinish a Mercedes block of this type.
>

Yes, but Mercedes and BMW engines are far less likely to need such
service...

nate


--
replace "roosters" with "***" to reply.
http://members.***.net/njnagel

hls

"Nate Nagel" <njnagel@roosters.net> wrote in message
news:ha3d9n21u9q@news7.newsguy.com...

>
> Yes, but Mercedes and BMW engines are far less likely to need such
> service...
>
> nate
>
1000% right. We had one about a year or so ago. But it is unusual for
one of them to fail in this way. I thought all the Vega alloy engines
failed,
but as I posted early, even the worst manufacturer in the world will
occasionally let a good one slip through.

dsi1

hls wrote:
>
> "dsi1" <dsi1@humuhumunukunukuapuapa.org> wrote in message
>>> Fiat is a bit of a joke, even in Europe. I lived there for many many
>>> years.
>>
>> I'm guessing it's partially because they're such a big force in
>> Europe, the same as GM is in the states.
>
> You would be very wrong... In Europe, many people buy for quality, or at
> least perceived quality. Fiat and Lancia suck in this perception
> outside of Italia. People outside Italy buy Fiat largely on price.

I'm not sure why you would say I was wrong. I made no comment about the
quality of Fiat cars nor did I say anything about what Europeans are
looking for when they buy a car.

Obviously, most people would rather have a Mercedes or a Lexus but the
reality is that most people settle for a Chevy over here and a Fiat(or
VW) in Europe.

Nate Nagel

dsi1 wrote:
> hls wrote:
>>
>> "dsi1" <dsi1@humuhumunukunukuapuapa.org> wrote in message
>>>> Fiat is a bit of a joke, even in Europe. I lived there for many
>>>> many years.
>>>
>>> I'm guessing it's partially because they're such a big force in
>>> Europe, the same as GM is in the states.
>>
>> You would be very wrong... In Europe, many people buy for quality, or
>> at least perceived quality. Fiat and Lancia suck in this perception
>> outside of Italia. People outside Italy buy Fiat largely on price.
>
> I'm not sure why you would say I was wrong. I made no comment about the
> quality of Fiat cars nor did I say anything about what Europeans are
> looking for when they buy a car.
>
> Obviously, most people would rather have a Mercedes or a Lexus but the
> reality is that most people settle for a Chevy over here and a Fiat(or
> VW) in Europe.

IME VW is a LARGE cut above Chevy... at least the A4 GTI I had felt
like a little luxury car inside, and I had no real problems with it save
for the #@$%@#$ window issues. My mom now loves it too :/ (gotta
figure out how to get her to buy a new car so I can have it back...)

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "***" to reply.
http://members.***.net/njnagel

dsi1

Nate Nagel wrote:
> dsi1 wrote:
>> hls wrote:
>>>
>>> "dsi1" <dsi1@humuhumunukunukuapuapa.org> wrote in message
>>>>> Fiat is a bit of a joke, even in Europe. I lived there for many
>>>>> many years.
>>>>
>>>> I'm guessing it's partially because they're such a big force in
>>>> Europe, the same as GM is in the states.
>>>
>>> You would be very wrong... In Europe, many people buy for quality, or
>>> at least perceived quality. Fiat and Lancia suck in this perception
>>> outside of Italia. People outside Italy buy Fiat largely on price.
>>
>> I'm not sure why you would say I was wrong. I made no comment about
>> the quality of Fiat cars nor did I say anything about what Europeans
>> are looking for when they buy a car.
>>
>> Obviously, most people would rather have a Mercedes or a Lexus but the
>> reality is that most people settle for a Chevy over here and a Fiat(or
>> VW) in Europe.
>
> IME VW is a LARGE cut above Chevy... at least the A4 GTI I had felt
> like a little luxury car inside, and I had no real problems with it save
> for the #@$%@#$ window issues. My mom now loves it too :/ (gotta
> figure out how to get her to buy a new car so I can have it back...)
>
> nate
>

I loved the VWs I've had. They did have some problems with the valve
stem seals and the fuse boxes on the early FWD cars. Killer rust
problems. As it goes, any car has it's weak points, well, Chevys and VWs
and Fiats, anyway. :-)

M.A. Stewart

Otis (rev_otis_mcnatt@yahoo.com) writes:
> On Sep 30, 8:15=A0pm, Tegger <inva...@invalid.inv> wrote:
>> "hls" <h...@nospam.nix> wrote innews:N_adnfqOvN5yAF7XnZ2dnUVZ_oqdnZ2d@gig=
> anews.com:
>>
>>
>>
>> > "Otis" <rev_otis_mcn...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> >news:1f20ce7d-cd39-4208-920c-08032814acbb@37g2000yqm.googlegroups.com..
>> > .
>> >> Over the years, the inevitable subject of worst cars ever comes up,
>> >> and the Vega is always at or near the top of the list. =A0I've seen it
>> >> a hundred times. =A0 I feel I should put in a good word for the little
>> >> car.
>>
>> > That is, I believe, the car with the silicon/aluminum alloy
>> > engine...That thing went out for most people very quickly.
>>
>> Anybody ever read the Wiki page on the Vega? It's a pretty good read.
>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Vega>
>>
>> Maybe I'm weird, but I always thought the Vega was a good-looking car. Bu=
> t
>> then I liked the Plymouth Duster as well.
>
> My Vega was a sporty bright color, but a plain Jane set of wheels.
> One of my friends had a GT which was very cool; a sturdy-looking
> and very sporty ride. Another had one of the "Millionth Vegas."
>
> I turned a little green with envy when he got that orange babe.
>
> from http://h-body.org/library/vegabob/ve...-complete.html
>
> "In May 1973, the Millionth Vega was produced; a bright orange GT
> hatchback coupe, with white sport stripes, "Millionth Vega" door
> handle
> inserts, and power steering. interior featured neutral custom vinyl,
> including exclusive vinyl door panels, and orange accent color
> carpeting.
>
> "-A limited edition "Millionth Vega" option-ZM5 was offered..one per
> dealer."
>
> Another buddy of mine got one of the "Spirit of America" models.
> It was flashier than mine, but couldn't hold a candle to the GT
> models.
> This one ended up sitting in the carport of his parents' house till
> just
> recently!
>
>
>
>


Was it true that those 'Special' Vegas came from the factory with
a free case of 24 cans of oil in the trunk, and a special engraved
chrome plated magnetic oil can/spout opener stuck to the
firewall under the hood?