Mighty Honda Civic
 

I busted an axle. Not the CV joint, the actual axle. From a standing
start in a parking lot, without much throttle, trying to keep the speed
down. Who says they don't have any torque? Well, I admit, it was a B16
engine, and it does have a loud exhaust and an $80 aftermarket oiled
gauze intake filter. I guess that's what did the trick.

Re: Mighty Honda Civic
 

gzuckier@snail-mail.net wrote:
> I busted an axle. Not the CV joint, the actual axle. From a standing
> start in a parking lot, without much throttle, trying to keep the speed
> down. Who says they don't have any torque? Well, I admit, it was a B16
> engine, and it does have a loud exhaust and an $80 aftermarket oiled
> gauze intake filter. I guess that's what did the trick.
>
no, metal fatigue did the trick. it either had a defect from factory or
was damaged in a way that initiated fatigue cracking.

and that "filter" lets in way more crud than you'd think. you're
cutting 50% or more off your engine life. unless you race, and want to
win, and can afford new motors regularly, that filer is costing you
/way/ more than $80.

Re: Mighty Honda Civic
 

gzuckier@snail-mail.net wrote:
> I busted an axle. Not the CV joint, the actual axle. From a standing
> start in a parking lot, without much throttle, trying to keep the speed
> down. Who says they don't have any torque? Well, I admit, it was a B16
> engine, and it does have a loud exhaust and an $80 aftermarket oiled
> gauze intake filter. I guess that's what did the trick.
>
no, metal fatigue did the trick. it either had a defect from factory or
was damaged in a way that initiated fatigue cracking.

and that "filter" lets in way more crud than you'd think. you're
cutting 50% or more off your engine life. unless you race, and want to
win, and can afford new motors regularly, that filer is costing you
/way/ more than $80.

Re: Mighty Honda Civic
 

jim beam wrote:
> gzuckier@snail-mail.net wrote:
>
>> I busted an axle. Not the CV joint, the actual axle. From a standing
>> start in a parking lot, without much throttle, trying to keep the speed
>> down. Who says they don't have any torque? Well, I admit, it was a B16
>> engine, and it does have a loud exhaust and an $80 aftermarket oiled
>> gauze intake filter. I guess that's what did the trick.
>>
> no, metal fatigue did the trick. it either had a defect from factory or
> was damaged in a way that initiated fatigue cracking.
>
> and that "filter" lets in way more crud than you'd think. you're
> cutting 50% or more off your engine life. unless you race, and want to
> win, and can afford new motors regularly, that filer is costing you
> /way/ more than $80.
>

Yeah, if you think about it, in order for a filter to get xxxCFM higher
than an AC Delco, or whatever, that means that the pores have to be
larger. The larger the pores, the more likely something will get
through the filter, even if it's only 100 nanometers in size. You
multiply the number of those tiny particles by several quardrillion over
the life of your car, and how much gunk do you think could accumulate in
your combustion chamber? Is your filter K&N or a copy-cat?

(the following is directed to jim beam)
Speaking of K&N filters: K&N is supposed to have the highest airflow
with no dust escape as shown on their website:

http://knfilters.com/images/factstab1.gif
http://knfilters.com/images/factstab2.gif

Are they lying about what's in the "Comments" column?

Jonathan

Re: Mighty Honda Civic
 

jim beam wrote:
> gzuckier@snail-mail.net wrote:
>
>> I busted an axle. Not the CV joint, the actual axle. From a standing
>> start in a parking lot, without much throttle, trying to keep the speed
>> down. Who says they don't have any torque? Well, I admit, it was a B16
>> engine, and it does have a loud exhaust and an $80 aftermarket oiled
>> gauze intake filter. I guess that's what did the trick.
>>
> no, metal fatigue did the trick. it either had a defect from factory or
> was damaged in a way that initiated fatigue cracking.
>
> and that "filter" lets in way more crud than you'd think. you're
> cutting 50% or more off your engine life. unless you race, and want to
> win, and can afford new motors regularly, that filer is costing you
> /way/ more than $80.
>

Yeah, if you think about it, in order for a filter to get xxxCFM higher
than an AC Delco, or whatever, that means that the pores have to be
larger. The larger the pores, the more likely something will get
through the filter, even if it's only 100 nanometers in size. You
multiply the number of those tiny particles by several quardrillion over
the life of your car, and how much gunk do you think could accumulate in
your combustion chamber? Is your filter K&N or a copy-cat?

(the following is directed to jim beam)
Speaking of K&N filters: K&N is supposed to have the highest airflow
with no dust escape as shown on their website:

http://knfilters.com/images/factstab1.gif
http://knfilters.com/images/factstab2.gif

Are they lying about what's in the "Comments" column?

Jonathan

Re: Mighty Honda Civic
 

Jonathan Upright wrote:
> jim beam wrote:
>
>> gzuckier@snail-mail.net wrote:
>>
>>> I busted an axle. Not the CV joint, the actual axle. From a standing
>>> start in a parking lot, without much throttle, trying to keep the speed
>>> down. Who says they don't have any torque? Well, I admit, it was a B16
>>> engine, and it does have a loud exhaust and an $80 aftermarket oiled
>>> gauze intake filter. I guess that's what did the trick.
>>>
>> no, metal fatigue did the trick. it either had a defect from factory
>> or was damaged in a way that initiated fatigue cracking.
>>
>> and that "filter" lets in way more crud than you'd think. you're
>> cutting 50% or more off your engine life. unless you race, and want
>> to win, and can afford new motors regularly, that filer is costing you
>> /way/ more than $80.
>>
>
> Yeah, if you think about it, in order for a filter to get xxxCFM higher
> than an AC Delco, or whatever, that means that the pores have to be
> larger. The larger the pores, the more likely something will get
> through the filter, even if it's only 100 nanometers in size. You
> multiply the number of those tiny particles by several quardrillion over
> the life of your car, and how much gunk do you think could accumulate in
> your combustion chamber? Is your filter K&N or a copy-cat?
>
> (the following is directed to jim beam)
> Speaking of K&N filters: K&N is supposed to have the highest airflow
> with no dust escape as shown on their website:
>
> http://knfilters.com/images/factstab1.gif
> http://knfilters.com/images/factstab2.gif
>
> Are they lying about what's in the "Comments" column?
>
> Jonathan

two questions:

1. what is "coarse" dust axactly? - just something that they know is
larger than their pore size?

2. what is "weight gain of absolute"? do they mean absolute weight of
dust fed?

just throwing a percentage out there doesn't mean a thing unless it's
compared to other filters. istr an article cited here some months back
with filter test comparisons - it showed these aftermarket filters in a
pretty bad way.

Re: Mighty Honda Civic
 

Jonathan Upright wrote:
> jim beam wrote:
>
>> gzuckier@snail-mail.net wrote:
>>
>>> I busted an axle. Not the CV joint, the actual axle. From a standing
>>> start in a parking lot, without much throttle, trying to keep the speed
>>> down. Who says they don't have any torque? Well, I admit, it was a B16
>>> engine, and it does have a loud exhaust and an $80 aftermarket oiled
>>> gauze intake filter. I guess that's what did the trick.
>>>
>> no, metal fatigue did the trick. it either had a defect from factory
>> or was damaged in a way that initiated fatigue cracking.
>>
>> and that "filter" lets in way more crud than you'd think. you're
>> cutting 50% or more off your engine life. unless you race, and want
>> to win, and can afford new motors regularly, that filer is costing you
>> /way/ more than $80.
>>
>
> Yeah, if you think about it, in order for a filter to get xxxCFM higher
> than an AC Delco, or whatever, that means that the pores have to be
> larger. The larger the pores, the more likely something will get
> through the filter, even if it's only 100 nanometers in size. You
> multiply the number of those tiny particles by several quardrillion over
> the life of your car, and how much gunk do you think could accumulate in
> your combustion chamber? Is your filter K&N or a copy-cat?
>
> (the following is directed to jim beam)
> Speaking of K&N filters: K&N is supposed to have the highest airflow
> with no dust escape as shown on their website:
>
> http://knfilters.com/images/factstab1.gif
> http://knfilters.com/images/factstab2.gif
>
> Are they lying about what's in the "Comments" column?
>
> Jonathan

two questions:

1. what is "coarse" dust axactly? - just something that they know is
larger than their pore size?

2. what is "weight gain of absolute"? do they mean absolute weight of
dust fed?

just throwing a percentage out there doesn't mean a thing unless it's
compared to other filters. istr an article cited here some months back
with filter test comparisons - it showed these aftermarket filters in a
pretty bad way.

Re: Mighty Honda Civic
 

jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote in
news:SsidnbTpf7ONWE7fRVn-3w@speakeasy.net:


>
> two questions:
>
> 1. what is "coarse" dust axactly? - just something that they know is
> larger than their pore size?
>
> 2. what is "weight gain of absolute"? do they mean absolute weight of
> dust fed?
>
> just throwing a percentage out there doesn't mean a thing unless it's
> compared to other filters. istr an article cited here some months
> back with filter test comparisons - it showed these aftermarket
> filters in a pretty bad way.
>
>


After seeing this, I resolved (more than before) never to ever use a K&N on
any engine I wasn't racing:
http://home.usadatanet.net/~jbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm

--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Re: Mighty Honda Civic
 

jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote in
news:SsidnbTpf7ONWE7fRVn-3w@speakeasy.net:


>
> two questions:
>
> 1. what is "coarse" dust axactly? - just something that they know is
> larger than their pore size?
>
> 2. what is "weight gain of absolute"? do they mean absolute weight of
> dust fed?
>
> just throwing a percentage out there doesn't mean a thing unless it's
> compared to other filters. istr an article cited here some months
> back with filter test comparisons - it showed these aftermarket
> filters in a pretty bad way.
>
>


After seeing this, I resolved (more than before) never to ever use a K&N on
any engine I wasn't racing:
http://home.usadatanet.net/~jbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm

--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Re: Mighty Honda Civic
 

Jonathan Upright <qaesar1@carolina.rr.com> wrote in
news:W7PAe.155338$XQ.3079849@twister.southeast.rr. com:



>
> Yeah, if you think about it, in order for a filter to get xxxCFM
> higher than an AC Delco, or whatever, that means that the pores have
> to be larger.

Well,you either need larger pores,or -more filter area.




--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

Re: Mighty Honda Civic
 

Jonathan Upright <qaesar1@carolina.rr.com> wrote in
news:W7PAe.155338$XQ.3079849@twister.southeast.rr. com:



>
> Yeah, if you think about it, in order for a filter to get xxxCFM
> higher than an AC Delco, or whatever, that means that the pores have
> to be larger.

Well,you either need larger pores,or -more filter area.




--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

Re: Mighty Honda Civic
 

Wow! I've been buying K&N's for years.

"TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in message
news:Xns96916FC006C2Ctegger@207.14.113.17...
> jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote in
> news:SsidnbTpf7ONWE7fRVn-3w@speakeasy.net:
>
>
>>
>> two questions:
>>
>> 1. what is "coarse" dust axactly? - just something that they know is
>> larger than their pore size?
>>
>> 2. what is "weight gain of absolute"? do they mean absolute weight of
>> dust fed?
>>
>> just throwing a percentage out there doesn't mean a thing unless it's
>> compared to other filters. istr an article cited here some months
>> back with filter test comparisons - it showed these aftermarket
>> filters in a pretty bad way.
>>
>>
>
>
> After seeing this, I resolved (more than before) never to ever use a K&N
> on
> any engine I wasn't racing:
> http://home.usadatanet.net/~jbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm
>
> --
> TeGGeR®
>
> The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
> www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Re: Mighty Honda Civic
 

Wow! I've been buying K&N's for years.

"TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in message
news:Xns96916FC006C2Ctegger@207.14.113.17...
> jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote in
> news:SsidnbTpf7ONWE7fRVn-3w@speakeasy.net:
>
>
>>
>> two questions:
>>
>> 1. what is "coarse" dust axactly? - just something that they know is
>> larger than their pore size?
>>
>> 2. what is "weight gain of absolute"? do they mean absolute weight of
>> dust fed?
>>
>> just throwing a percentage out there doesn't mean a thing unless it's
>> compared to other filters. istr an article cited here some months
>> back with filter test comparisons - it showed these aftermarket
>> filters in a pretty bad way.
>>
>>
>
>
> After seeing this, I resolved (more than before) never to ever use a K&N
> on
> any engine I wasn't racing:
> http://home.usadatanet.net/~jbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm
>
> --
> TeGGeR®
>
> The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
> www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Re: Mighty Honda Civic
 

Jonathan Upright wrote:
> jim beam wrote:
> > gzuckier@snail-mail.net wrote:
> >
> >> I busted an axle. Not the CV joint, the actual axle. From a standing
> >> start in a parking lot, without much throttle, trying to keep the speed
> >> down. Who says they don't have any torque? Well, I admit, it was a B16
> >> engine, and it does have a loud exhaust and an $80 aftermarket oiled
> >> gauze intake filter. I guess that's what did the trick.
> >>
> > no, metal fatigue did the trick. it either had a defect from factory or
> > was damaged in a way that initiated fatigue cracking.
> >
> > and that "filter" lets in way more crud than you'd think. you're
> > cutting 50% or more off your engine life. unless you race, and want to
> > win, and can afford new motors regularly, that filer is costing you
> > /way/ more than $80.
> >
>
> Yeah, if you think about it, in order for a filter to get xxxCFM higher
> than an AC Delco, or whatever, that means that the pores have to be
> larger. The larger the pores, the more likely something will get
> through the filter, even if it's only 100 nanometers in size. You
> multiply the number of those tiny particles by several quardrillion over
> the life of your car, and how much gunk do you think could accumulate in
> your combustion chamber? Is your filter K&N or a copy-cat?
>
> (the following is directed to jim beam)
> Speaking of K&N filters: K&N is supposed to have the highest airflow
> with no dust escape as shown on their website:
>
> http://knfilters.com/images/factstab1.gif
> http://knfilters.com/images/factstab2.gif
>
> Are they lying about what's in the "Comments" column?
>
> Jonathan

I don't think the K&N bills itself as getting more airflow than the
stock when clean; at least for the Honda, they tout the ability to not
clog when loaded with gunk.
I do wonder how much stuff gets in, and what the significance is. I
remember those old oil bath air cleaners on the updraft carbs. I think
nothing ever got as much dust out of the air as those.

Re: Mighty Honda Civic
 

Jonathan Upright wrote:
> jim beam wrote:
> > gzuckier@snail-mail.net wrote:
> >
> >> I busted an axle. Not the CV joint, the actual axle. From a standing
> >> start in a parking lot, without much throttle, trying to keep the speed
> >> down. Who says they don't have any torque? Well, I admit, it was a B16
> >> engine, and it does have a loud exhaust and an $80 aftermarket oiled
> >> gauze intake filter. I guess that's what did the trick.
> >>
> > no, metal fatigue did the trick. it either had a defect from factory or
> > was damaged in a way that initiated fatigue cracking.
> >
> > and that "filter" lets in way more crud than you'd think. you're
> > cutting 50% or more off your engine life. unless you race, and want to
> > win, and can afford new motors regularly, that filer is costing you
> > /way/ more than $80.
> >
>
> Yeah, if you think about it, in order for a filter to get xxxCFM higher
> than an AC Delco, or whatever, that means that the pores have to be
> larger. The larger the pores, the more likely something will get
> through the filter, even if it's only 100 nanometers in size. You
> multiply the number of those tiny particles by several quardrillion over
> the life of your car, and how much gunk do you think could accumulate in
> your combustion chamber? Is your filter K&N or a copy-cat?
>
> (the following is directed to jim beam)
> Speaking of K&N filters: K&N is supposed to have the highest airflow
> with no dust escape as shown on their website:
>
> http://knfilters.com/images/factstab1.gif
> http://knfilters.com/images/factstab2.gif
>
> Are they lying about what's in the "Comments" column?
>
> Jonathan

I don't think the K&N bills itself as getting more airflow than the
stock when clean; at least for the Honda, they tout the ability to not
clog when loaded with gunk.
I do wonder how much stuff gets in, and what the significance is. I
remember those old oil bath air cleaners on the updraft carbs. I think
nothing ever got as much dust out of the air as those.